Just to clarify, he didn't ask me a yes or no question. He was assuming he could do what he wanted. He did not ask me not to tell him "if" he could come in me. He asked me to tell him I could come in him. That's where it slipped into BDSM dynamics. Subtext, in context of other requests, was he was asking me to say "you can do what you want because I'm your sex object". Subtext back was "mainly, yes- but remember, we don't have birth control- and that was a predetermined limit- no coming without 2 forms of protection."
Respecting and enforcing limits
- Thread starter 1234567
- Start date
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
I think this would be challenging for any man, no matter what he's into, what boundary turns him on, whatever sub-text is going on, whatever country he lives in. Again, it seems to me that there's a whole lot going on here for you beyond the practicalities of birth control, communication and safe words.
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
Of course, but consider the possibility that the problem here is not that he is being disrespectful or untrustworthy, but that he just doesn't understand what you're communicating. There are ~ 10 people here trying to understand what you're asking help with and we're having a hard time getting it. Just imagine how murky your messages might be from his point of view.
I'm assuming this is a communication problem.
It freaks me out that I can't communicate this. That what I felt was clear was not, and led to my boundaries being crossed.
I'm not blaming him.
I *am* trying to protect myself from that same boundary crossing happening again.
(It's my boundary, it's my responsibility to protect it. I am not succeeding. So it's my responsibility to fix it.)
It freaks me out that I can't communicate this. That what I felt was clear was not, and led to my boundaries being crossed.
I'm not blaming him.
I *am* trying to protect myself from that same boundary crossing happening again.
(It's my boundary, it's my responsibility to protect it. I am not succeeding. So it's my responsibility to fix it.)
Last edited:
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
You said before that your previous guy was fine with pulling out and maybe this guy is not. In my experience with men, "pulling out" is a universally despised practise, as well as a very ineffective method of birth control. If you're having him do it for sexual/control/power exchange reasons, I get it, but as a practical method of BC or as part of average sexual enjoyment, it's way at the bottom of most men's preferences (in my experience).
Last edited:
(Karen was responding to this: I changed my response)
And not being able to communicate THAT is what's freaking me out.)
Easily solved if I can take back the responsibility for birth control onto me. And maybe that's where the solution lies- not give over the power to do whatever you want as long as we have two forms of birth control in when to come. That has worked for a previous partner- when the situation came up , he pulled out happily in exchange for not having to interrupt the flow. But maybe that is an option that doesn't work universally or in this particular relationship. Maybe my previous lover was the exception, rather than the rule.
And not being able to communicate THAT is what's freaking me out.)
Easily solved if I can take back the responsibility for birth control onto me. And maybe that's where the solution lies- not give over the power to do whatever you want as long as we have two forms of birth control in when to come. That has worked for a previous partner- when the situation came up , he pulled out happily in exchange for not having to interrupt the flow. But maybe that is an option that doesn't work universally or in this particular relationship. Maybe my previous lover was the exception, rather than the rule.
A recent study, BTW, showed that pulling out was as effective as condom user for birth control. That surprised me. I wouldn't trust it as a sole form. But because of the stats, I'm okay with it in combination.
My partner often will decide to orgasm other ways as a personal choice, after being in me, as he has a thing for cum on bodies, so it's not out of the range of our lovemaking that this would be an acceptable choice to him.
My partner often will decide to orgasm other ways as a personal choice, after being in me, as he has a thing for cum on bodies, so it's not out of the range of our lovemaking that this would be an acceptable choice to him.
zigzag
New member
I'm not American either but I would not have seen what you said as a clear no.
Earlier on you say, "we had a condom, but no foam" so from his perspective HE was using effective birth control. You must have taken timeout from love making to apply the condom, then continue with intercourse, so why had you not used the foam? As you had taken timeout to get contraception and then continue with intercourse, it could be seen as a fairly clear green light to orgasm. Then when he asked again you gave an ambivalent answer.
Expecting someone who has applied birth control to pull out at the last minute seems unreasonable. If its what you agreed then it should have happened, but, it still seems unreasonable and unrealistic.
It would seem to me using TWO "apply at the moment of intercourse" contraceptives is unrealistic, as many folk struggle with one such method, and by doing so you are setting yourselves up to fail and have incidents such as this.
BTW. Can you not get spermicidal lubricated condoms in the US? If you can don't they provide you with two methods but one application.
Earlier on you say, "we had a condom, but no foam" so from his perspective HE was using effective birth control. You must have taken timeout from love making to apply the condom, then continue with intercourse, so why had you not used the foam? As you had taken timeout to get contraception and then continue with intercourse, it could be seen as a fairly clear green light to orgasm. Then when he asked again you gave an ambivalent answer.
Expecting someone who has applied birth control to pull out at the last minute seems unreasonable. If its what you agreed then it should have happened, but, it still seems unreasonable and unrealistic.
It would seem to me using TWO "apply at the moment of intercourse" contraceptives is unrealistic, as many folk struggle with one such method, and by doing so you are setting yourselves up to fail and have incidents such as this.
BTW. Can you not get spermicidal lubricated condoms in the US? If you can don't they provide you with two methods but one application.
GreenAcres
New member
I do agree with HappilyFallenAngel: pulling out is NOT a real form of birth control. If your concern is getting pregnant, then using it as birth control is, at best, silly. With absolutely perfect use, it has a failure rate of almost 30%. It's incredibly ineffective. At that point, you're not actually using two forms of birth control anyway. If he's using condoms, pulling out is pointless, and doesn't decrease the risk of pregnancy. If he's not using condoms, you're still looking at a really high failure rate, especially when compare to other methods.
So, if it's about your control and power, then that's one thing. But if, as you've mentioned earlier, it's actually about avoiding pregnancy, you should stop using "pulling out" as a method pretty much immediately and go to something else that will help you with your stated goal of preventing pregnancy.
So, if it's about your control and power, then that's one thing. But if, as you've mentioned earlier, it's actually about avoiding pregnancy, you should stop using "pulling out" as a method pretty much immediately and go to something else that will help you with your stated goal of preventing pregnancy.
Last edited:
FallenAngelina
Well-known member
Very common. That's partly what the safe word is all about. People say or don't say all kinds of crazy things while in the throes of passion, so a pre-determined safe word is established long before the magic little sex faeries take over.
Pulling out as BC is not silly, just not what you are expecting, maybe. (See the above link for statistical relevance: in practice; 16% vs17% condom vs Pullout failure in practice, with a 2 (condom) vs 4(withdrawal) percent failure rating if used perfectly every time.)
Surprising for me, too.
Surprising for me, too.
Last edited:
IndieSolo
Active member
I think you missed something. She usually uses a condom plus foam but hadn't put the foam in earlier because he wanted to go down on her, but when he wanted to cum, she wanted him to stop and pull out because she has to have both methods or she isn't comfortable - although her words did not make it clear that he should stop.
That would still be clunky. Why not get an IUD, or use condoms with spermicide?
GreenAcres
New member
NYCindie, I realize she usually uses foam, as well, and that is a good second choice. But, she also sites using withdrawl as a second acceptable method.
Also, read the "Study" used for the story by ABC. It's not saying much, really. It's not a triple blind study, it's essentially a survey of other research (which isn't a bad thing, per se). much of which relies heavily on self-reporting.
Also, read the "Study" used for the story by ABC. It's not saying much, really. It's not a triple blind study, it's essentially a survey of other research (which isn't a bad thing, per se). much of which relies heavily on self-reporting.
zigzag
New member
If you want to take one study, that you have not read, just a summary from a news organisation against the thousands of studies and professionals who will tell you its unreliable. Most non parisan organisations report a circa 30% failure rate.
Your decision. Would not trust it at all.
Last edited:
Thanks, all- this has been useful.
I can see that anything where we're relying on communication in the moment to make decisions on birth control is not going to work due to communication limits.
I've got lots more options to look at to make things less clunky.
I've seen the legitimacy if what I intended as a no being interpreted as a yes.
I'm ready to put this to bed.
Thank you for your input.
I can see that anything where we're relying on communication in the moment to make decisions on birth control is not going to work due to communication limits.
I've got lots more options to look at to make things less clunky.
I've seen the legitimacy if what I intended as a no being interpreted as a yes.
I'm ready to put this to bed.
Thank you for your input.