"Secondary," newish to poly-- where do I fit in?

H

Hetaera

New member
I'm relatively new to the concepts of polyamory, and didn't totally realize what is was. I guess I mostly thought it was people who were in unhappy marriages looking for more (which sometimes it is), although not in this case. This guy I'm seeing loves his wife and child a lot.

I'm reading {i]Sex at Dawn[/i] and am going to start The Ethical Slut. (I think The Ethical Lover would be a better title). Apparently I am one, which makes a lot of sense now. Plus I'm doing as much research as I can. I'm getting a grad degree in Psych. I have always questioned the pitfalls of monogamy, even more so after two failed marriages and many failed relationships.

I was in an open marriage a long time ago, but we really didn't handle it the right way and it ended badly. I had a lover that he knew about. He didn't have one and got very jealous.

Anyway, I recently got into a relationship with a lovely man, whose wife is totally ok with his wanting an exclusive GF. They decided this was ok prior to getting married. She does not want to have another lover, but is ok with him having one. She is even willing to meet me. I’m worried about this for several reasons. I’ve always had guy friends, and their GFs often got jealous, even though I never flirted with them, and would never violate the bounds of someone else’s relationship. I think I’ll just have to assume she’s as great as she seems, and eventually meet her one day. I am honestly so grateful to her for giving me the gift of allowing her husband to be my friend/lover. He is literally the most amazing person I have ever met.

As for my new lover, we met online randomly, even though I was looking for a more "conventional" type of boyfriend, or at least a FWB who wouldn't get too attached. I just got out of a very unhappy marriage where I got dumped after I had two very little kids. Then I got involved with a man who I thought would just be a FWB, but he got possessive and jealous, and started talking about love way too fast. I'm not really ready for a full-on relationship, because I’m working on some issues from my past and need to focus on myself.

That being said... I feel like my new "friend" and I are star-crossed lovers. We made love (a term which I deplored until now) for hours the 1st time we met. (We had talked & emailed a lot.) It was possibly the most amazing sex I have ever had… at least very close. I literally have never had sex on the 1st date (other than a few one-nighters in my teens/20s), nor have I ever orgasmed the 1st time having sex with anyone, ever.

I feel like my previously closed-off heart has been opened up. I have been laughing and crying very hard lately. It’s like all the emotions I had bottled up are coming out, and I attribute this, at least in part, to my open relationship with him. We have a level of openness & honesty that I rarely, if ever, have experienced with another person, even though I am a very open and honest person.

Men tend to fall in love with me hard and fast (although I don't with them). We're already telling each other we love the other, even though I normally don't bring up love so quickly.

I told him before we ever got intimate that I would dump him if he ever mentioned leaving his wife, and that we cannot ever deceive her in any way. He swears he will not, and I know it's true. I won't ever be that kind of “other woman."

That being said, I'm worried that my needs will not be met. He lives over an hour away, and we can probably see each other 1-2 times/week, max, which isn't nearly enough for me (sexually and otherwise). We do talk on the phone daily, plus texting, IMing, etc., and I can probably visit them other times. Part of me knows the distance and his marriage is a good thing for now, because I don’t need to totally lose myself in relationship until I work out some issues.

So mostly everything is great with this relationship. Well, except this-- I feel like the couple in a V gets to set all/most of the rules, and I have to abide by them. I know part of this is because a marriage breaking up (especially when kids are involved) is a bigger consequence than 2 lovers breaking up.

Maybe I'll learn more as I read and research.

Another couple propositioned me for a threesome recently, and although I want to be with other women, and would like to experience a threesome, I don't want to be with another man right now. The husband has to have intercourse with the "girlfriend," and that's off-limits for me now, because I want to be exclusive, even though I want more sex. So again, the (threesome) couple wanted to set the rules.

I’d love to understand why the married couple seems to get to set the rules. Is this really the case? Am I missing something? It kinda seems unfair to the secondary. Again, I’m relatively new to all this and am just trying to get my head around it. I don’t need to control everything about this situation, but I have needs/wants/desires that are just as valid as everyone else’s, right?

I know I will be friends with this man, even when we can no longer be lovers. I hope to get into a committed relationship one day, and have no idea if my partner will accept this kind of love. He’ll at least have to accept my friendship with this guy. The thought of losing his friendship is unbearable, even though I know we will probably have to part as lovers one day.

I’d appreciate any positive feedback other members here have.
 
Last edited:
As the poly person in an established relationship and another relationship, feel free to say secondary if you want, but when I see this, it always bugs me. First of all, it's the idea that you are giving up control, or worse, that others are forcing control. ALL RELATIONSHIPS ARE CONDITIONAL. So basically these couples may tell you what their conditions are. Fine and dandy.

What the hell is stopping you from putting forward your own conditions? What makes theirs more important than yours!? This is part of communication! Instead of talking about how unfair it is that secondaries don't get to make rules, and couples do, and couple privilege and all that crap, do some communicating!

There's nothing at all wrong with saying, "Hey great, glad you two have thought about this, however A, C, and Y don't work for me. I'm much more comfortable with D, G, and Z. Also I have my own rules, think we can come up with a happy medium? Something we can all live with now and then revisit these 'rules' later?"

If you feel someone else is coming up with all the rules, stop blaming others, start standing up and communicating for what you want! Trust me, not all couples are going to tell you that it's their way or the highway. Guess what? Some of us actually respect individuals and are willing to communicate and put in the work for everyone to be heard, respected, and loved the way they need!
 
The only way for a person to have equal rights in a relationship is to take on equal responsibility. That starts will identifying for themselves what it is that they want/need/expect in a relationship, and then stating it. In a poly dynamic, that is critical.

At the point where you choose not to establish your expectations/wants/needs to them, you are choosing to make their relationship more important than the relationship you have with either, and you are choosing to make yourself secondary, and you are choosing not to allow yourself to be as high a priority.

My boyfriend of 20 years and my husband of 14 years...

Please read that line again...

My boyfriend of 20 years and my husband of 14 years and I live together with our children. (I have one with each, and one from prior partner, and my husband has one from a prior, and we have several godchildren we've helped raise, plus 2 grandsons.)

Neither relationship has priority, because the fact of the matter is that both men are critical components of my life, and the lives of all of the children and grandchildren. To lose either would be destructive all the way around.

Our dynamic was created terribly. But once we started educating ourselves, we realized that all of these constructs (like marriage) that our society says are "higher priority" don't matter at all. What does matter is people. The people in our lives love both men (and me, I hope). I love both men.

I think it's awesome that you are reading and educating yourself. (Although I admit to thinking The Ethical Slut[ is the least productive read I've encountered regarding poly, but that's neither here nor there.)

I would strongly advise you to continue to seek more information about it, because the truth is that there is no one hard and fast right way to do poly, and there is no need for one relationship to be held in higher priority than another, per se. What is more important is that people be held in higher priority than things, including random societal constructs.

I would also say, from experience as the wife who has asked to meet my husbands lovers, go meet the lady.

The women who have openly met me, I've actually created friendships with of my own, and that has created so much more strength and support for their relationship. And the one woman who tried to avoid me-- their relationship exploded in a fiery disaster, because the bottom line was that his commitment to his whole family was higher priority than any person who refused to have anything to do with the family.

If you go meet her, you may find in her a comrade, a friend. If so, what a gain for you and your young children!
 
Hetaera said:
She is even willing to meet me but I’m worried about this for several reasons... I think I’ll just have to assume she’s as great as she seems and eventually meet her one day.
Click to expand...

Go and meet her, and then you can decide for yourself if she is as great as she seems. My metamour is now one of my best friends and very important in my life outside of her role as JP's wife. I was quite ill a few weeks ago and she had no issue with JP taking me to the doctor and then bringing me to their house. She was my "babysitter" when he went to work the next day, since I couldn't be alone, bringing me food and drinks so that I didn't even have to get up off the couch. Heck, J and I even have movie dates without JP. If you go to meet your metamour with an open mind, you could gain a new friendship!
 
You have the right to request any changes that you want/need, and to set boundaries of your own. If a couple comes to you with a ridiculous rule like "You have to fuck both of us if you want to fuck either of us," then they're not really interested in you as a person, just in how you can fulfill a role for them. You'll find a great and fun situation in which to be with a woman and/or try a threesome one day with people who aren't such jerks.

I highly recommend these reads:
http://www.morethantwo.com/polyforsecondaries.html
http://www.morethantwo.com/primarysecondary.html

Some questions that I'm curious about, and that might make it easier to give you advice:

What rules do your lover and his wife have that impact you?

Why do you want to be exclusive to your lover?
 
LovingRadiance said:
Though I admit to thinking the Ethical Slut is the least productive read I've encountered regarding poly-but that's neither here nor there.
Click to expand...

Hi, Loving Radiance. I've been lurking and reading a lot. I also just started reading The Ethical Slut, and, my goodness, what an eye opener.

What other books would you recommend for someone just getting into this? Is there a recommended reading thread?

I've done some reading on morethantwo.com. However, it assumes that you already know that you want to be poly. I'm still sifting and learning about a whole new world of relationships. I'm a neophyte.

Thanks for the rec. :)
 
There is a recommended reading thread somewhere. (I admit that I suck at finding them. LOL.) Try the "Golden Nuggets" section on here.

I also have a list of suggested links, etc., on my personal poly-blog (off site). You are welcome to read there as well. aafteota.wordpress.com

I am good about answering questions if someone emails me from there, or DMs me here too.

The site that Annabelle posted links to, morethantwo.com, has some good reading material, as well.

I personally appreciate Deborah Anapol's book Love Without Limits. I don't get into her newer "new agey" stuff as much. But that book was very helpful to me.

And I know NYCindie (on here) has created a thread of "off site" personal blogs by various posters here, which have a collective wealth of personal, hands-on experience, wisdom and trivia. :)

And please, call me LR. :)
 
Thanks, LR. :) This is a wealth of information. I downloaded the 7 Levels of Intimacy. Already it's resonating.

Thanks for indulging the side bar, Hetaera.
 
What rules do your lover and his wife have that impact you?

She has veto power, for starters. Plus he is a busy guy; he has a home business, a farm, a wife, a baby.

Why do you want to be exclusive to your lover?

I want to be exclusive just for now, even though my sexual/companionship needs are not even close to being met. I feel like we have something magical right now, and I love being his fantasy girlfriend. I know I will eventually need at least one more lover, and will eventually want a more conventional one-on-one relationship. Or maybe I can find someone who will be ok with me with poly. I'm trying to acquire a female lover for now to keep me somewhat, satisfied although my sexual appetites lately seem to be insatiable.

I'm reading Sex at Dawn, which is making certain things clear to me.
 
Vixtoria said:
As the poly person in an established relationship and another relationship, feel free to say secondary, if you want. When I see this, it always bugs me.
Click to expand...

What should I call myself then? I'm open to suggestions!
 
I feel like veto power makes sense before a relationship starts, as in "This person really sketches me out. I wish you wouldn't start dating them." But after a relationship is underway, that's a terrible thing to have hanging over your heads, the thought that what you're building could get yanked away at any time for reasons that don't have anything to do with what either one of you wants. As such, I'm very much anti-veto power for established relationships. I think it's corrosive and cruel. It's also sometimes called the "nuclear option," because it's likely to cause great harm to his marriage if it's invoked. How could he fail to resent his wife for taking away someone he loves? It's really just no good for anyone.

That said, even if an explicit veto power gets taken off the table, implicit veto power will remain, in that it's only reasonable to think that if his marriage is on the line he will almost certainly choose to save it. That's not a rule, just a reality. So, I would ask that the rule be dispensed with for your peace of mind, but with the understanding that the reality is still the same. It's just something to come to terms with.

Are there any other rules, explicit or implicit, that are bumming you out?

As for his busy schedule, there's nothing to be done about that except to 1) get really good at squeezing time in here and there, and/or 2) see if you can be a bigger part of the rest of his life.

My gf and I only have actual dates about once a month right now, but we stay connected because we see each other much more often than that. I come over to help watch the baby, I join her for exercise classes, eat dinner with her and her husband, we go out to events together. In addition to strengthening my relationship with her, it also strengthens my friendship with her husband (which helps deal with the already very, very small fear that he would ever try to invoke some kind of veto) and helps me feel like I'm adding to her ability to successfully manage her busy life rather than taking away. (If I couldn't do that, I might well feel very guilty dating someone with a toddler to take care of!)

On the other hand, it sounds like you're very busy too, so maybe spending more time in his world isn't feasible for you. Obviously his wife would have to be okay with it too, which could take time.

I think your rationale in being exclusive with him for now makes sense. I'm glad that you recognize that you will need more, and that that's ok, and that, if you're willing to wait for the right person who's either already poly or who is open-minded, finding someone new doesn't have to mean losing him. (If you both thought it did, it would be giving your future partner a sort of preemptive veto power. Just something to consider.)
 
Last edited:
More on exclusivity...

Why do you want to be exclusive to your lover?

For now at least, I don't feel like I want another man inside me, for whatever reason. I know this will change in the future, though. I'm am totally open to being with another woman. Also, no matter how careful one is with "safe sex" practices, condoms can break. I've known a few experienced condoms users that have had failures. Since this man is married and has a wife with a young one who is still being nursed, I feel especially obligated to be safe. I do realize that there are safety concerns with women, as well.
 
Hetaera said:
What should I call myself then? I'm open to suggestions!
Click to expand...

Girlfriend, boyfriend, lover. They all work. DC calls himself secondary sometimes, but mostly just boyfriend. He chooses to not have a more serious relationship. Just today we were talking and he said he likes being boyfriend, not really interested in more. Some people use the terms anchors instead of primary and secondary.

Most of what seems to grate is people assuming the level of love is the definition. When someone says DH is my primary, it has nothing to do with level of love and more to do with the fact that our lives are so much more intertwined. Living together, shared finances, children. When discussing our future, it's pretty connected. DC is connected as well, but not as directly. He's looking into a career that will have him moving around a lot and does not expect that we would move with him but that he'd be able to visit more often.
 
in that it's only reasonable to think that if his marriage is on the line he will almost certainly choose to save it.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's always the case. If someone discovers that ethical non-monogamy fulfills them more than either monogamy did, or cheating would, and their primary partner is unable to cope without a monogamous relationship, I think that a lot of people would choose ethical non-monogamy over the other options, especially if they started their primary relationship with the intention of it being non-monogamous and/or they have other relationships which they are committed to.
 
I'm working on arranging a meeting with the wife. We're thinking of doing it one weekend when I have my kids so we can all meet each other. I think it'll go well. I have shared some of the suggested reading with my lover regarding "secondaries," and I have no problem standing up for myself.

The one problem is that I think his wife just thought he was going to find another woman to have sex with, but we have already developed a very strong emotional bond. I hope I can develop a bond with her too, since we love the same man, and I want everyone to be happy and feel good about this arrangement.
 
AnnabelMore, thank you for all the kind words! I like you!

This is all pretty new, so we'll have to discuss the veto-power thing. We have already decided that we will end the physical part if she can't handle it, but she can't veto our friendship.

I met the wife, and it went very well. The only problem is that he doesn't have a lot of free time, and they live 1.5 hours away. We'll see how it all works out. I've actually offered to come to their house and help them work, just to spend more time with him and his family. They have a farm and I love farm work. I would love to get to know his wife better, and their baby. I'd gladly watch the baby so they could have some time to themselves or get work done.

I only referred to myself as secondary as a means of communicating the dynamics of the situation. He calls me his girlfriend (or whatever ridiculously silly thing he comes up with). I say he's my boyfriend or lover.

It's funny that I'm in love with someone and can't tell certain people in my family. Luckily, most of my friends can handle my unconventional lifestyle, for the most part, even though they find it hard to believe that she's ok with it.

I have a date tomorrow with a very interesting woman, and am hopeful that we can spend some time together, as well.

I am free to be with whomever I choose. The exclusivity thing is about me enjoying the special feeling I have with him. He makes no demands on me being exclusive, even though he enjoys it.
 
The Ethical Slut is an eye opener, and just because you aren't one, or don't get it, doesn't mean it isn't useful. Sex at Dawn isn't about polyamory per se, but it is very interesting. It explains human sexuality in evolutionary terms, and why polyamory and bisexuality make complete sense.

crisplove said:
I've been lurking and reading a lot. I also just started reading The Ethical Slut. My goodness, what an eye opener.

What other books would you recommend for someone just getting into this? Is there a recommended reading thread?

I've done some reading on morethantwo.com. However, it assumes that you already know that you want to be poly. I'm still sifting and learning about a whole new world of relationships. I'm a neophyte.
Click to expand...
 
Hetaera said:
The one problem is that I think his wife just thought he was going to find another woman to have sex with, but we have already developed a very strong emotional bond.
Click to expand...

Well, that is a huge renegotiation on their side, then. She may never be OK with him loving another. She just wanted him to have casual sex? It's a common problem. But it's not polyamory if there is just fucking around going on.

Two loves. Now what? That is between them. Work for them to do. Hard work.

I hope I can develop a bond with her too, since we love the same man and I want everyone to be happy and feel good about this arrangement.
Click to expand...


Well, now. First she has to get behind her husband loving another, now you want her to "love" you too? A lot to ask. Slow down! Maybe being a good friend with you would help her. Maybe she'd just rather be cordial and polite, but not hang out.

Hetaera said:
I met the wife, it went very well. The only problem is that he doesn't have a lot of free time, and they live 1.5 hours away. We'll see how it all works out. I've actually offered to come to their house help them work just to spend more time with him and his family. They have a farm and I love farm work. I would love to get to know his wife better, and their baby. I'd gladly watch the baby so they could have some time to themselves or get work done.
Click to expand...

Again, slow down. Does the wife want you in her territory, with her animals and equipment and sitting her kids? You might think you're being helpful, but give her time. You've only met her once. She might not want you all up in her space like that yet, or ever.

I have a date tomorrow with a very interesting woman. I am hopeful that we can spend some time together, as well.
Click to expand...

Good luck on your date. :)
 
Magdlyn said:
Again, slow down. Does the wife want you in her territory, with her animals and equipment and sitting her kids? You might think you're being helpful, but give her time. You've only met her once. She might not want you all up in her space like that yet, or ever.
Click to expand...

This! A thousand times this!

My inner Momma Bear kicked in big time when my metamour said she wanted an Auntie-like relationship with my kids. I know she just wants us all to be closer, but it will be what it will be, and wanting something with my kids when I'm not ready for it, period, only serves to make me dig in my heels more and get into protective mode.

My space (including the space of my kids) is mine (or theirs) to give, not anybody's to take. And certainly not anybody's to complain about not having.

(Sorry, it's a sore spot of mine, since my metamour and I just recently went around in circles on this and finally seem to have ironed it out.)
 
Last edited:
Also, in rereading your OP, I see where you say you don't want to lose yourself in another relationship, but here you are wanting to get onto their farm, work on the farm, babysit their kids. Beware. It seems you're doing something you were set against in the OP.

Seeing someone once or twice a week is plenty for someone who wants some distance and just a FWB. It seems you're of two minds, eh? Two failed marriages, many failed relationships, other gfs getting jealous of you?

Time to apply your school smarts to your own life. I advise you to back off on the meetings and the texting and let his wife get used to the idea her man has another love. I hear you say you never fall in love so fast, you never fuck on the first date, you never O on the first sex. So, that is all thrilling. But be careful, be respectful of his wife. You do get to make your needs and desires known, but so do they, and it's all got to be negotiated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top