Smelling the flowers
- Thread starter Petunia
- Start date
OMG, last night was so much fun. The Pussy Cat and Trebuchets (Bond, me, B, and Ginge - who we renamed last night to Ready Yeti Red) had our every other Thursday night out. There were moments when I thought we were going to laugh ourselves sick, or at least to the point of damp panties. Ready Yeti Red and I tend to catch a lot of each other's wit that Bond and B may not catch onto because they are so wrapped up in other stuff. Ah, we amuse ourselves.
We ate at a Japanese, Chinese, Asian fusion ramen and dumpling place that I've been putting up as a possible dining establishment for months now. It took Ready Yeti going there last week and putting in a strong Fuck Yes before it finally got the nod. It was packed when we got there and I expected we'd have a long wait, but they were able to seat us before too long. We really liked our waitress. I can't remember her name. It was unusual and beautiful. She was quite funny when she inquired about the Sour Patch on the table - which we explained had been caught in B's sweater. Ah, yes, B has an addiction to Sour Patch candy. We ordered in small plate fashion which was a great way to get to try multiple things.
I snagged some photos off of Yelp, because silly us didn't think to take any pictures.
These were so fucking good! Tofu Bun
This is Veggie Ramen. We ordered one of this and one dry ramen that was beef - which was the better of the two.
Afterwards we smoked in the car and Ready Yeti Red drove us to a bar up the street. A big hunk of a man bartends there and he remembered us from when we were there in early December. Or more likely he remembered B. Oh, he has a strong attraction to her! He lets it be known that he finds her hot, but he stays respectful. And for the second time he poured us free shots. And he gave her hot nuts. LOL. We had so much fun.
While we were there I got an IM from someone I went on one date with last Spring, and ironically he and I went to the very bar I was at when he messaged me again months later.
Hi, [Petunia]
I hope that you are well in the new year. It seems from your posts that you are doing great and having a good time of it.
I was just wondering if you might be interested in hanging out again sometime.
Best,
[Can't recall the nickname I gave him before] Hmm, he's a musician and singer, it probably had something to do with that.
He's been on my mind quite a lot ever since that date. At the time he wanted to see me Wednesdays/Thursdays, but I was focused on my developing relationships with Bond and Golden so I begged off due to timing. Now that things are calm and established somewhat in that arena I have been thinking it would be ever so nice to have someone who likes meeting for cocktails and dinner that can take me away from the world of kids some evenings. And he's the person I keep thinking of in that context. I'm just not sure what kind of reception I'll get from Bond and Golden. Actually, I'm fairly certain that Bond won't bat an eye. He is so chill about these things. It's Golden who I think will struggle with this and question me up one side and down the other. I'm also unsure if I actually have time for another relationship considering we are about to start a triad. Timing. Sigh.
I didn't reply until this morning, because I needed a little bit of time to consider things first.
Goodness, I am attracted to this man and we've circled each other for years, but at what point am I saturated timewise? Relationship-wise? I always think I have time for others, but when I try to schedule things it becomes apparent that in reality there isn't much free time available. It will mean taking time away from other things and limiting my amount of down time. I'll have to give up some Bond time and man, I don't want to do that. Bond time = personal peace and restoration for me. Things to contemplate.
We ate at a Japanese, Chinese, Asian fusion ramen and dumpling place that I've been putting up as a possible dining establishment for months now. It took Ready Yeti going there last week and putting in a strong Fuck Yes before it finally got the nod. It was packed when we got there and I expected we'd have a long wait, but they were able to seat us before too long. We really liked our waitress. I can't remember her name. It was unusual and beautiful. She was quite funny when she inquired about the Sour Patch on the table - which we explained had been caught in B's sweater. Ah, yes, B has an addiction to Sour Patch candy. We ordered in small plate fashion which was a great way to get to try multiple things.
I snagged some photos off of Yelp, because silly us didn't think to take any pictures.
These were so fucking good! Tofu Bun
This is Veggie Ramen. We ordered one of this and one dry ramen that was beef - which was the better of the two.
Afterwards we smoked in the car and Ready Yeti Red drove us to a bar up the street. A big hunk of a man bartends there and he remembered us from when we were there in early December. Or more likely he remembered B. Oh, he has a strong attraction to her! He lets it be known that he finds her hot, but he stays respectful. And for the second time he poured us free shots. And he gave her hot nuts. LOL. We had so much fun.
While we were there I got an IM from someone I went on one date with last Spring, and ironically he and I went to the very bar I was at when he messaged me again months later.
Hi, [Petunia]
I hope that you are well in the new year. It seems from your posts that you are doing great and having a good time of it.
I was just wondering if you might be interested in hanging out again sometime.
Best,
[Can't recall the nickname I gave him before] Hmm, he's a musician and singer, it probably had something to do with that.
He's been on my mind quite a lot ever since that date. At the time he wanted to see me Wednesdays/Thursdays, but I was focused on my developing relationships with Bond and Golden so I begged off due to timing. Now that things are calm and established somewhat in that arena I have been thinking it would be ever so nice to have someone who likes meeting for cocktails and dinner that can take me away from the world of kids some evenings. And he's the person I keep thinking of in that context. I'm just not sure what kind of reception I'll get from Bond and Golden. Actually, I'm fairly certain that Bond won't bat an eye. He is so chill about these things. It's Golden who I think will struggle with this and question me up one side and down the other. I'm also unsure if I actually have time for another relationship considering we are about to start a triad. Timing. Sigh.
Hi, [MusicMan].
I think of you often. I would be interested in hanging out again sometime. How have you been? I watch for travel posts, but I haven't seen any recently.
[Petunia]
I think of you often. I would be interested in hanging out again sometime. How have you been? I watch for travel posts, but I haven't seen any recently.
[Petunia]
I have been well, thanks. Not a huge amount of traveling, lately. Some Korea trips, but not worth documenting.
Great! Let me know when you are available. I think you are fun and adorable, and am sad we have not spent more time together.
[MusicMan]
Great! Let me know when you are available. I think you are fun and adorable, and am sad we have not spent more time together.
[MusicMan]
I didn't reply until this morning, because I needed a little bit of time to consider things first.
Good morning 
I should talk to Bond and Golden before suggesting possible days for a date. I haven't been dating anyone other than the two of them, so it'll be a big change. I want to give them a heads-up. (My last date with anyone other than the two of them was with you last spring.)
Additionally, I have a friendship that is morphing into something more. I want to be cognizant of how much time I have available.
What I do know is you have stayed in my thoughts for a long time, so I'd like to explore this more.
Petunia
I should talk to Bond and Golden before suggesting possible days for a date. I haven't been dating anyone other than the two of them, so it'll be a big change. I want to give them a heads-up. (My last date with anyone other than the two of them was with you last spring.)
Additionally, I have a friendship that is morphing into something more. I want to be cognizant of how much time I have available.
What I do know is you have stayed in my thoughts for a long time, so I'd like to explore this more.
Petunia
That sounds very reasonable, thank you for the thoughtful response.
I likewise have thought of you and generally have an eye out for your posts.
Keep me abreast of the situation,
Best
MusicMan
I likewise have thought of you and generally have an eye out for your posts.
Keep me abreast of the situation,
Best
MusicMan
Goodness, I am attracted to this man and we've circled each other for years, but at what point am I saturated timewise? Relationship-wise? I always think I have time for others, but when I try to schedule things it becomes apparent that in reality there isn't much free time available. It will mean taking time away from other things and limiting my amount of down time. I'll have to give up some Bond time and man, I don't want to do that. Bond time = personal peace and restoration for me. Things to contemplate.
I'm 99% sure that I'm going to end things with Golden tonight. I think we'll do much better as friends than lovers/partners. It's not an easy decision. I will miss many things about our relationship and it'll be an adjustment to not have him in that role in my life. I hope that we can transition to being very good friends and that as friends the things in me that disappoint him will no longer be part of our lives.
Friday night we had a date night. We went to see an improv performance and we had a good time. We got back at a decent hour, got Beanie to bed, and then we watched some TV before going to bed. We were both tired, but especially Golden, so we just went to sleep. When I woke in the morning my body was aching from lying in bed and I had to pee. Generally Golden likes to sleep in on the weekends and I was unable to lie still which made me worry that I was disturbing his sleep. After about 15 minutes I decided that I should just get up. It wasn't really early, either. It was nearing 8 AM. When I got out of bed he woke and I explained that I had to pee, so I was getting up. He confirmed that I was not coming back to bed to which I said I wasn't.
I used the main bathroom upstairs and then went into my bedroom to stealthily grab some clothes, but when I got in there Bond was awake and on his phone, so I climbed in bed. We snuggled and talked (bunches) and ended up having sex and then we showered and joined the rest of the household around 9:30 or so. I'm actually unsure if we got into the shower at 9:30 or if we finished getting ready for the day and came out of the bedroom at that time.
Anyhow, it doesn't really matter. The point is, I woke up with Golden and went upstairs and climbed in bed with Bond. I didn't go back to sleep, but I did climb back into bed.
I was putting clean sheets on the bed when Golden came into the bedroom and said that he had something he wanted to say. He said that he wanted our relationship to be a partnership. He did not want to be a FWB and he did not want to be a boy toy.
I sat down on the bed and asked him if that was how our relationship was making him feel. I can't recall if he said it was. I think what he said was that he wasn't happy that I had left him and then joined Bond. He wanted to know how I viewed our relationship - what kind of label I categorized it under. I told him that I no longer knew what kind of label to assign it as things had been changing in recent times, so I was hesitant to label it. That was basically the end of the conversation.
Bond and I and his middle son did some shopping for the dinner party we were having that night and Golden played video games while we were gone. When we got back it was full-on cleaning and cooking mode for all of us. Initially Golden acted off, but he let that go and we had a good time cooking together. He actually got a bit playful and that was a relief.
After dinner I found him watching the football game in the master bedroom. I laid down next to him and we snuggled on the bed for a bit. We were so damn tired. It was just nice to steal a few minutes and relax. Bond was playing a board game with some of our company and the others were watching football in the family room. We relaxed and chatted and tried to stay awake.
Sunday I spent a large portion of the day on my feet for the second day in a row. I cleaned the kids' arts cupboard, ran to the store for milk and almond milk because Beanie wanted smoothies, visited with the friend we threw the dinner party for (she forgot her ingredients at our house for the candy bacon she had planned on making for the party the night before, but never made), cooked dinner and just did a heck of a lot. At the end of the day Golden heard me say my feet were tired, so he rubbed my feet while we watched a show.
So, we had some good and some bad going on.
We had some weird interactions, too. Saturday my daughter called me on her break. She said she was starving and she wanted to know what there was to eat. I did a quick survey of the refrigerator and told her what there was. I asked her if she wanted a quesadilla. She did. I then asked her what she wanted in it. Meanwhile Golden is in the process of making two quesadillas for lunch. I tell him that she has asked me to make her one - I had the things she wanted in it in my hands as I told him this. He then asks me why I am making one for her and did she desire one? Um, yeah...remember, he was standing right there as I had this conversation with her on the phone. Bond who was in the dinette later mentioned how odd it was that he asked me that. Like he was questioning me as to whether I should be doing this for her, or maybe like I was deciding this for her? We weren't sure, but the one thing that is always popping up is Golden questioning everything I do in regards to my daughter. First it's that I'm treating her like a child - like when Bond and I took the bull by the horns to get her car running during a big snow storm, then it's that I'm not and I should be telling her to pick up after herself and telling me instead of speaking directly to her himself.
So, anyway all of this is to say that we had nice interactions and strange interactions. Some tension, but also sweetness.
The more I think about him being all pissy about me leaving his room Saturday morning and spending time with Bond the more angry I get. If we didn't live together and I'd have left his bed he would not have thought he had claim to how I spent my time. If I had chosen to spend my time doing other things in the house after I left his bed, I'm sure he'd have had no objection. But the fact that I left his bed and then spent intimate time with Bond is an issue with him. And that's not okay. He doesn't get to dictate what I do with my time.
I've come to realize that Golden is never going to be happy being anything less than a primary partner with me, and even then I think he'd always be nitpicking. He is judgemental by nature. I want out. I'm tired of feeling like most everything I do causes displeasure for him. I'm also finding there are character traits that I dislike to the level of wanting to exit the relationship. Before being in a relationship with him I had no clue that ADHD could affect someone to such a degree. It is very much like a mental illness where he is delusional when he's in a heightened state. I'm also questioning how well he is managing his life. He didn't complete his final assignments and tests at the end of the Spring semester. He was given extra time to complete them due to his ADHD, but he never did and time ran out when the Fall semester started. Now the Fall semester has ended and the Spring 2016 semester is about to start and once again he has not completed his coursework. However, he has time to play video games and a million and one other things that eat up his time.
We have a date tonight and we're staying in. I told him that I want to talk. He asked if I could give him a preview about what I want to talk about and I said it had to do with Saturday morning and more.
I think we're both going to be sad, but I think we're both also going to be relieved. And because I think we're going to be relieved, I think it's the right decision.
Friday night we had a date night. We went to see an improv performance and we had a good time. We got back at a decent hour, got Beanie to bed, and then we watched some TV before going to bed. We were both tired, but especially Golden, so we just went to sleep. When I woke in the morning my body was aching from lying in bed and I had to pee. Generally Golden likes to sleep in on the weekends and I was unable to lie still which made me worry that I was disturbing his sleep. After about 15 minutes I decided that I should just get up. It wasn't really early, either. It was nearing 8 AM. When I got out of bed he woke and I explained that I had to pee, so I was getting up. He confirmed that I was not coming back to bed to which I said I wasn't.
I used the main bathroom upstairs and then went into my bedroom to stealthily grab some clothes, but when I got in there Bond was awake and on his phone, so I climbed in bed. We snuggled and talked (bunches) and ended up having sex and then we showered and joined the rest of the household around 9:30 or so. I'm actually unsure if we got into the shower at 9:30 or if we finished getting ready for the day and came out of the bedroom at that time.
Anyhow, it doesn't really matter. The point is, I woke up with Golden and went upstairs and climbed in bed with Bond. I didn't go back to sleep, but I did climb back into bed.
I was putting clean sheets on the bed when Golden came into the bedroom and said that he had something he wanted to say. He said that he wanted our relationship to be a partnership. He did not want to be a FWB and he did not want to be a boy toy.
I sat down on the bed and asked him if that was how our relationship was making him feel. I can't recall if he said it was. I think what he said was that he wasn't happy that I had left him and then joined Bond. He wanted to know how I viewed our relationship - what kind of label I categorized it under. I told him that I no longer knew what kind of label to assign it as things had been changing in recent times, so I was hesitant to label it. That was basically the end of the conversation.
Bond and I and his middle son did some shopping for the dinner party we were having that night and Golden played video games while we were gone. When we got back it was full-on cleaning and cooking mode for all of us. Initially Golden acted off, but he let that go and we had a good time cooking together. He actually got a bit playful and that was a relief.
After dinner I found him watching the football game in the master bedroom. I laid down next to him and we snuggled on the bed for a bit. We were so damn tired. It was just nice to steal a few minutes and relax. Bond was playing a board game with some of our company and the others were watching football in the family room. We relaxed and chatted and tried to stay awake.
Sunday I spent a large portion of the day on my feet for the second day in a row. I cleaned the kids' arts cupboard, ran to the store for milk and almond milk because Beanie wanted smoothies, visited with the friend we threw the dinner party for (she forgot her ingredients at our house for the candy bacon she had planned on making for the party the night before, but never made), cooked dinner and just did a heck of a lot. At the end of the day Golden heard me say my feet were tired, so he rubbed my feet while we watched a show.
So, we had some good and some bad going on.
We had some weird interactions, too. Saturday my daughter called me on her break. She said she was starving and she wanted to know what there was to eat. I did a quick survey of the refrigerator and told her what there was. I asked her if she wanted a quesadilla. She did. I then asked her what she wanted in it. Meanwhile Golden is in the process of making two quesadillas for lunch. I tell him that she has asked me to make her one - I had the things she wanted in it in my hands as I told him this. He then asks me why I am making one for her and did she desire one? Um, yeah...remember, he was standing right there as I had this conversation with her on the phone. Bond who was in the dinette later mentioned how odd it was that he asked me that. Like he was questioning me as to whether I should be doing this for her, or maybe like I was deciding this for her? We weren't sure, but the one thing that is always popping up is Golden questioning everything I do in regards to my daughter. First it's that I'm treating her like a child - like when Bond and I took the bull by the horns to get her car running during a big snow storm, then it's that I'm not and I should be telling her to pick up after herself and telling me instead of speaking directly to her himself.
So, anyway all of this is to say that we had nice interactions and strange interactions. Some tension, but also sweetness.
The more I think about him being all pissy about me leaving his room Saturday morning and spending time with Bond the more angry I get. If we didn't live together and I'd have left his bed he would not have thought he had claim to how I spent my time. If I had chosen to spend my time doing other things in the house after I left his bed, I'm sure he'd have had no objection. But the fact that I left his bed and then spent intimate time with Bond is an issue with him. And that's not okay. He doesn't get to dictate what I do with my time.
I've come to realize that Golden is never going to be happy being anything less than a primary partner with me, and even then I think he'd always be nitpicking. He is judgemental by nature. I want out. I'm tired of feeling like most everything I do causes displeasure for him. I'm also finding there are character traits that I dislike to the level of wanting to exit the relationship. Before being in a relationship with him I had no clue that ADHD could affect someone to such a degree. It is very much like a mental illness where he is delusional when he's in a heightened state. I'm also questioning how well he is managing his life. He didn't complete his final assignments and tests at the end of the Spring semester. He was given extra time to complete them due to his ADHD, but he never did and time ran out when the Fall semester started. Now the Fall semester has ended and the Spring 2016 semester is about to start and once again he has not completed his coursework. However, he has time to play video games and a million and one other things that eat up his time.
We have a date tonight and we're staying in. I told him that I want to talk. He asked if I could give him a preview about what I want to talk about and I said it had to do with Saturday morning and more.
I think we're both going to be sad, but I think we're both also going to be relieved. And because I think we're going to be relieved, I think it's the right decision.
I broke up with Golden Tuesday night. Somehow in the process we got onto the topic of my daughter and my parenting style - with her. We didn't get into the thick of it Tuesday night, but he did say enough to make me wonder what his thoughts were. It hung with me through the night as I tried to sleep and was still gnawing at me the next morning. I felt that if there is a better way to interact with her, then I should listen to what he has to say.
A little background info: My daughter is 30 years old and since the week of Christmas has been temporarily living in our front room. Since moving in she has started a part-time job and today she is starting a full-time job. She hopes to work both jobs simultaneously.
Monday night I put down a security deposit and co-signed a lease agreement for her. This isn't the first time I've had to help her get her life back on track. She's had a lot of crummy things happen in her life, some of which were the results of her poor choices, but some were totally out of her control. It's been a hard life for her.
Yesterday morning I sent him a text:
Can you elaborate on how you see my parenting [daughter] vs [youngest son]? And overall how I could be parenting her differently that would be better for her? It may be easier to answer via email.
What followed was a text to set up a time when we could talk and then this:
First off, he knows I'm a big Brene Brown fan, so hello...preaching to the choir. Secondly, it's Rising Strong, not Raising Strong.
But overall, the whole thing put me off because he comes off as presenting himself as some kind of expert and his words struck me as condescending.
I sent him a couple of emails.
Golden
Jan 20 (1 day ago)
to me
Golden
Jan 20 (1 day ago)
to me
Petunia
Jan 20 (1 day ago)
to Golden
Golden
Jan 20 (1 day ago)
to me
to be continued...
A little background info: My daughter is 30 years old and since the week of Christmas has been temporarily living in our front room. Since moving in she has started a part-time job and today she is starting a full-time job. She hopes to work both jobs simultaneously.
Monday night I put down a security deposit and co-signed a lease agreement for her. This isn't the first time I've had to help her get her life back on track. She's had a lot of crummy things happen in her life, some of which were the results of her poor choices, but some were totally out of her control. It's been a hard life for her.
Yesterday morning I sent him a text:
Can you elaborate on how you see my parenting [daughter] vs [youngest son]? And overall how I could be parenting her differently that would be better for her? It may be easier to answer via email.
What followed was a text to set up a time when we could talk and then this:
In the meantime I Strongly recommend you read one of Dr. Brene Brown's books on shame and vulnerability.
I really like her last book Raising Strong, but she has another book on parenting that might be just as useful in this context.
Good luck!
I really like her last book Raising Strong, but she has another book on parenting that might be just as useful in this context.
Good luck!
First off, he knows I'm a big Brene Brown fan, so hello...preaching to the choir. Secondly, it's Rising Strong, not Raising Strong.
But overall, the whole thing put me off because he comes off as presenting himself as some kind of expert and his words struck me as condescending.
I sent him a couple of emails.
I want to say this in regards to [daughter]. Often times when you question my motives about [daughter]-related things I am going to give you the practical reason of why I am doing whatever it is. What I don't say is that most of what I do for her is simply because I want to do things for her. I love her and I am her mother. I'm motivated by empathy. Sometimes maybe I make things too easy for her, but on the other hand, because I feel others may think I'm doing too much for her I try to scale it back and maybe then I'm not doing enough.
Take her laundry for instance. You questioned why I was doing it. I gave you practical reasons, it needed to be done, we were having a party, etc. But the biggest reason I did it was because that's a task that is easy for me to do, but something that weighs [daughter] down. Basically, I wanted to do it for her as an act of caring. I was so relieved that your reason for making her bed was simply because you wanted to do something nice for her. That was so nice. Knowing that frees me to feel like I can do something for her simply because that's what I want to do. I haven't felt like I can simply give that as a reason, because to me that should be implied, but when I'm questioned, then I try to find practical reasons to back it up.
I carry with me the feeling/belief that I made a mistake by letting her go back to [hometown] for her last two years of high school. It cut short the time I had with her at a critical time in her life. Ever since she was 16 years old she has had to act like an adult and I think that robbed her in many ways. So, here I am with an adult daughter who in many ways cannot deal with the world. She has had a lot of crummy things happen in her life and I can't fix them. I can offer help, but it's really up to her. I wish I'd have had her tested as a child for ADHD, because much of how she copes with life can be explained if that is a factor.
I feel totally caught in a no-win situation when it comes to [daughter] and dealing with other people in my life. I am caught between being a parent to someone who doesn't function well in society and others that are subjected to this because of their relationship to me. They (you/Bond/my friends) didn't sign up for this when they brought me into their lives. It makes it very hard for me to navigate.
My heart breaks continuously when it comes to [daughter] and also with Josh.
Take her laundry for instance. You questioned why I was doing it. I gave you practical reasons, it needed to be done, we were having a party, etc. But the biggest reason I did it was because that's a task that is easy for me to do, but something that weighs [daughter] down. Basically, I wanted to do it for her as an act of caring. I was so relieved that your reason for making her bed was simply because you wanted to do something nice for her. That was so nice. Knowing that frees me to feel like I can do something for her simply because that's what I want to do. I haven't felt like I can simply give that as a reason, because to me that should be implied, but when I'm questioned, then I try to find practical reasons to back it up.
I carry with me the feeling/belief that I made a mistake by letting her go back to [hometown] for her last two years of high school. It cut short the time I had with her at a critical time in her life. Ever since she was 16 years old she has had to act like an adult and I think that robbed her in many ways. So, here I am with an adult daughter who in many ways cannot deal with the world. She has had a lot of crummy things happen in her life and I can't fix them. I can offer help, but it's really up to her. I wish I'd have had her tested as a child for ADHD, because much of how she copes with life can be explained if that is a factor.
I feel totally caught in a no-win situation when it comes to [daughter] and dealing with other people in my life. I am caught between being a parent to someone who doesn't function well in society and others that are subjected to this because of their relationship to me. They (you/Bond/my friends) didn't sign up for this when they brought me into their lives. It makes it very hard for me to navigate.
My heart breaks continuously when it comes to [daughter] and also with Josh.
Golden
Jan 20 (1 day ago)
to me
Thank you for sharing. I am sad to hear the pain you feel with your children. While my children are not adults I feel I have had analogous moments with them; again not the same as you, but similar enough to where I can imagine how it might feel and understand the strife that you describe.
If you want to talk more, I'll listen. Do know that I do not want to be your therapist, but I certainly will be your friend.
Take care
If you want to talk more, I'll listen. Do know that I do not want to be your therapist, but I certainly will be your friend.
Take care
Golden
Jan 20 (1 day ago)
to me
An important point,
"I haven't felt like I can simply give that as a reason, because to me that should be implied, but when I'm questioned..."
I am sorry you felt this way. I understand you have taken my questioning nature to mean something negative, and this makes me very sad. I am an eternally curious person, especially when it comes to what I perceive as inconsistencies. To me your parenting of Taylor vs [daughter] & Josh is inconsistent. To keep this simple, I like how I feel when I am around you when you are talking about or interacting with Taylor. The way you approach him, the son who is like you, is very different than how you approach [daughter] & Josh. I don't like how I feel when I hear or witness you parent your older children.
As your partner, I choose not to communicate my feelings directly to you. This was my choice. I felt that approaching you directly, which is the approach I prefer, would have been disastrously. I learned that any mention or slight reference to how you parent resulted in a trigger-like response (shame?) , sometimes resulting in a big fight. It was clear to me that a direct dialogue, like the one you are now asking for, would have been a really bad idea; probably resulting in the end of our romantic relationship or worst.
Instead of speaking with you directly about how I felt, I choose to find in alternative way. I didn't have a plan per say, but in the back of my mind I was trying to find a way to deal with my emotions that stemmed from your parenting.
To be clear, my emotional reaction to your actions is NOT your fault nor responsibility.
While I was trying to address my emotions I am sure (now) you picked up on how I was struggling, and I am guessing you interpreted my struggle as a passive or indirect way of criticizing you. This was not my intention in any way, shape or form. What you perceived (IMO) was me doing the best I could in the moment.
You know me to be an honest person with integrity who is fearless when it comes facing adversity. I am the kind of person who will stand tall when struggling with my inner demons. None of those qualities were useful when dealing with my emotions to your parenting; if anything, my normal approach would have been the worst thing I could have done. I have never experience anything like this before, living with a partner and being forbidden to communicate with them in away that was natural to me... I didn't have the skills or similar experiences to draw on. So I tried, as your partner, to change and develop in new ways. This was the challenge I choose to face and while my perceived struggles contributed to the end of our romantic relationship, which I am very sad about... I am also grateful for what we had, and how I have grown by sharing my life with you.
"I haven't felt like I can simply give that as a reason, because to me that should be implied, but when I'm questioned..."
I am sorry you felt this way. I understand you have taken my questioning nature to mean something negative, and this makes me very sad. I am an eternally curious person, especially when it comes to what I perceive as inconsistencies. To me your parenting of Taylor vs [daughter] & Josh is inconsistent. To keep this simple, I like how I feel when I am around you when you are talking about or interacting with Taylor. The way you approach him, the son who is like you, is very different than how you approach [daughter] & Josh. I don't like how I feel when I hear or witness you parent your older children.
As your partner, I choose not to communicate my feelings directly to you. This was my choice. I felt that approaching you directly, which is the approach I prefer, would have been disastrously. I learned that any mention or slight reference to how you parent resulted in a trigger-like response (shame?) , sometimes resulting in a big fight. It was clear to me that a direct dialogue, like the one you are now asking for, would have been a really bad idea; probably resulting in the end of our romantic relationship or worst.
Instead of speaking with you directly about how I felt, I choose to find in alternative way. I didn't have a plan per say, but in the back of my mind I was trying to find a way to deal with my emotions that stemmed from your parenting.
To be clear, my emotional reaction to your actions is NOT your fault nor responsibility.
While I was trying to address my emotions I am sure (now) you picked up on how I was struggling, and I am guessing you interpreted my struggle as a passive or indirect way of criticizing you. This was not my intention in any way, shape or form. What you perceived (IMO) was me doing the best I could in the moment.
You know me to be an honest person with integrity who is fearless when it comes facing adversity. I am the kind of person who will stand tall when struggling with my inner demons. None of those qualities were useful when dealing with my emotions to your parenting; if anything, my normal approach would have been the worst thing I could have done. I have never experience anything like this before, living with a partner and being forbidden to communicate with them in away that was natural to me... I didn't have the skills or similar experiences to draw on. So I tried, as your partner, to change and develop in new ways. This was the challenge I choose to face and while my perceived struggles contributed to the end of our romantic relationship, which I am very sad about... I am also grateful for what we had, and how I have grown by sharing my life with you.
Petunia
Jan 20 (1 day ago)
to Golden
I think we should cancel our discussion about parenting.
Golden
Jan 20 (1 day ago)
to me
OK
to be continued...
Petunia
2:33 PM (22 hours ago)
to Golden
I shared things with Bond and he was rather shocked. He said he has never once thought there was anything amiss with my parenting.
I met my friend and former roommate, Michelle, for dinner. We discussed all of this. She has experienced living with my daughter and she's known her for a number of years. She told me that she cannot imagine how I could be a better mother to her. She said she doesn't know of anyone who has done more than I have for their child and that sometimes you cannot overcome nature. She also pointed out that some people need more support than others and that if it wasn't for me Megan would not even have her son in her life. BTW, she has a masters in psychology. It was also interesting to hear how much she doesn't care for Golden. How he creeps her out and how she feels he's talking down to her and not really engaging her in conversation, but rather talking at her. I suspect he has no clue how educated she is or what her degree is in. It's funny how people alter their conversation depending on their audience.
While I was at dinner these messages came in.
Golden
6:19 PM (19 hours ago)
to me
Golden
6:22 PM (18 hours ago)
to me
Golden
7:31 PM (17 hours ago)
to me
I got home before 8 PM and picked up Megan and we went out for a drink. I wanted some time to connect with her and make sure I wasn't being asshole of the year in her world. I do not wish to run my daughter's life. I want to help her when necessary and empower her whenever possible.
After we got back Bond and Z went for their walk and Golden asked me if I knew what he meant by options and devaluing them. I said I hadn't caught that part. I had read his last emails quickly and totally missed that part.
I quickly read them again and I couldn't understand what he meant by options and devaluing. I said I'd try. He something to the effect of good or he didn't think we could be friends. His tone was mean and it came across as an ultimatum.
When Bond and I went to bed I told him what had happened and we read the emails again. Bond thought that he had to have meant opinion rather than option, but he used it so many times and then in speech, so I wasn't so sure. He suggested I ask for clarity seeing as it was presented as an ultimatum.
Petunia
10:48 PM (14 hours ago)
to Golden
Golden
1:46 AM (11 hours ago)
to me
Golden
6:33 AM (6 hours ago)
to me
At 7:05 he sent me this text:
I didn't see it until 7:35. I thought he'd be gone by then, but he was still home when I came out of the bedroom at 8:15. He explained his idea which is for us to use a code or keywords to identify when we are talking about something that is a parenting moment. That we could actually say, "parenting moment" or "parenting moment?" if we need to ascertain the context of the others remarks.
I don't know if it'll work, but we can try it. Good grief, we're getting all bent out of shape over my parenting my adult children - just how much parenting does that involve?
Anyway, things seem a lot better. We hugged. I activated the debit card and set the PIN. He's going to use it today to grocery shop.
2:33 PM (22 hours ago)
to Golden
"The way you approach him, the son who is like you, is very different than how you approach [daughter] & Josh. I don't like how I feel when I hear or witness you parent your older children."
They are very different people. Taylor handles the things life throws at him. I feel light and free when it comes to Taylor. [daughter] and Josh see all the darkness. It makes my heart bleed for them. I can't help but feel all that. I feel guilt and yes, maybe even shame, that I didn't do a better job. I feel guilty because they struggle. It feels like it is my fault.
I am guessing you are remembering what I have had to say about [daughter] being drunk and [daughter] lying/telling stories. That's very negative, but it is the truth. I don't understand the lying and I don't like it. Maybe I shouldn't have been so forthright about those things. (The thing I've noticed lately is that she is being more genuine and real and the lies aren't happening. It's such a huge relief.)
I'm not going to express most of what I am feeling, because it's so complex, so you only see part of the picture.
I learned that any mention or slight reference to how you parent resulted in a trigger-like response (shame?)
I would like to be free of others criticisms and be able to parent my kids the way my heart tells me to, but I haven't had that kind of situation ever. I've always had a partner telling me that I was too lax, too accommodating, too something and that my kids should or should not be doing something. I've never had the freedom to freely operate as a parent. So the backlash you were getting probably wasn't based solely on your words, but on the cumulative of years of interactions. To have you jump on that bandwagon seems a little too late considering they are adults now.
I have given it my all. I did the best I could. I continue to try. I will work at being a better mother to her and to Josh - that's not a new thing - that's a constant. I feel a huge amount of judgement from you and it's not needed; I already pile enough criticism on myself.
The words you use translate into judgement. You think your words don't matter, but they do. You question my motives over all aspects related to my daughter including me making her a quesadilla. I was on the phone answering her questions about lunch options and you were right there. I hung up and said that I needed to make her one and you questioned if that's what she desired. You say you don't recall, but they were your words. How am I supposed to know when you are saying things that you mean and when you are just saying things that have zero value even to you? Asking me that was in essence blocking me until I satisfied you on some level that 1.) I had understood her request, and 2.) it passed your judgement and was okay for me to proceed.
You give "I don't know" cop-out answers all the time these days, yet you expect answers to your questions.
When you are being judgemental, yes, I'm going to react negatively. I think you have no fucking clue what it's like to have adult children and have someone judge the job you did. I did not have the resources you have. I did not have the luxury of working only 20 hours/week or have someone else provide a roof over my head. I have been scrambling to catch up and be enough for them for the past 30 years. I had them at a young age and I did not have the education/experience/temperament that you have. You probably could have knocked it out of the park. Good for you. Well done. Bravo. I think you're a great parent. Honestly.
I wanted to have a discussion with you in hopes that you could offer me an alternative way to relate to [daughter], but your input doesn't come without your judgement so forget it. I'll continue to attempt to improve without your advice.
They are very different people. Taylor handles the things life throws at him. I feel light and free when it comes to Taylor. [daughter] and Josh see all the darkness. It makes my heart bleed for them. I can't help but feel all that. I feel guilt and yes, maybe even shame, that I didn't do a better job. I feel guilty because they struggle. It feels like it is my fault.
I am guessing you are remembering what I have had to say about [daughter] being drunk and [daughter] lying/telling stories. That's very negative, but it is the truth. I don't understand the lying and I don't like it. Maybe I shouldn't have been so forthright about those things. (The thing I've noticed lately is that she is being more genuine and real and the lies aren't happening. It's such a huge relief.)
I'm not going to express most of what I am feeling, because it's so complex, so you only see part of the picture.
I learned that any mention or slight reference to how you parent resulted in a trigger-like response (shame?)
I would like to be free of others criticisms and be able to parent my kids the way my heart tells me to, but I haven't had that kind of situation ever. I've always had a partner telling me that I was too lax, too accommodating, too something and that my kids should or should not be doing something. I've never had the freedom to freely operate as a parent. So the backlash you were getting probably wasn't based solely on your words, but on the cumulative of years of interactions. To have you jump on that bandwagon seems a little too late considering they are adults now.
I have given it my all. I did the best I could. I continue to try. I will work at being a better mother to her and to Josh - that's not a new thing - that's a constant. I feel a huge amount of judgement from you and it's not needed; I already pile enough criticism on myself.
The words you use translate into judgement. You think your words don't matter, but they do. You question my motives over all aspects related to my daughter including me making her a quesadilla. I was on the phone answering her questions about lunch options and you were right there. I hung up and said that I needed to make her one and you questioned if that's what she desired. You say you don't recall, but they were your words. How am I supposed to know when you are saying things that you mean and when you are just saying things that have zero value even to you? Asking me that was in essence blocking me until I satisfied you on some level that 1.) I had understood her request, and 2.) it passed your judgement and was okay for me to proceed.
You give "I don't know" cop-out answers all the time these days, yet you expect answers to your questions.
When you are being judgemental, yes, I'm going to react negatively. I think you have no fucking clue what it's like to have adult children and have someone judge the job you did. I did not have the resources you have. I did not have the luxury of working only 20 hours/week or have someone else provide a roof over my head. I have been scrambling to catch up and be enough for them for the past 30 years. I had them at a young age and I did not have the education/experience/temperament that you have. You probably could have knocked it out of the park. Good for you. Well done. Bravo. I think you're a great parent. Honestly.
I wanted to have a discussion with you in hopes that you could offer me an alternative way to relate to [daughter], but your input doesn't come without your judgement so forget it. I'll continue to attempt to improve without your advice.
I shared things with Bond and he was rather shocked. He said he has never once thought there was anything amiss with my parenting.
I met my friend and former roommate, Michelle, for dinner. We discussed all of this. She has experienced living with my daughter and she's known her for a number of years. She told me that she cannot imagine how I could be a better mother to her. She said she doesn't know of anyone who has done more than I have for their child and that sometimes you cannot overcome nature. She also pointed out that some people need more support than others and that if it wasn't for me Megan would not even have her son in her life. BTW, she has a masters in psychology. It was also interesting to hear how much she doesn't care for Golden. How he creeps her out and how she feels he's talking down to her and not really engaging her in conversation, but rather talking at her. I suspect he has no clue how educated she is or what her degree is in. It's funny how people alter their conversation depending on their audience.
While I was at dinner these messages came in.
Golden
6:19 PM (19 hours ago)
to me
"I would like to be free of others criticisms and be able to parent my kids the way my heart tells me to, but I haven't had that kind of situation ever. I've always had a partner telling me that I was too lax, too accommodating, too something and that my kids should or should not be doing something. I've never had the freedom to freely operate as a parent. So the backlash you were getting probably wasn't based solely on your words, but on the cumulative of years of interactions. To have you jump on that bandwagon seems a little too late considering they are adults now."
I do not want to be on the bandwagon and I want off the bandwagon. When I asked you to communicate to [daughter] about the crumbs in her bed I had NO idea that it would you to experience a traumatic flashback... these flashbacks have been happening a lot. I am NOT Don. I do not want to represent your 30 years of parenting.
I do not want to be on the bandwagon and I want off the bandwagon. When I asked you to communicate to [daughter] about the crumbs in her bed I had NO idea that it would you to experience a traumatic flashback... these flashbacks have been happening a lot. I am NOT Don. I do not want to represent your 30 years of parenting.
Golden
6:22 PM (18 hours ago)
to me
"You say you don't recall, but they were your words. How am I supposed to know when you are saying things that you mean and when you are just saying things that have zero value even to you?"
ASK me and trust me. ASSUME I have good intentions.
ASK me and trust me. ASSUME I have good intentions.
Golden
7:31 PM (17 hours ago)
to me
"When you are being judgmental..."
I ask that when you talk about your options that you own them for what they are, your options. Your options are not The truth, they are your truth.
When you talk about me 'being' this or 'expecting' that those are your options. If you want to convey your thoughts and feelings please do exactly that and do not talk for me.
I have apologized for what I have said. I have acknowledged when I have made mistakes. I have stated what changes I will make.
I have no idea what else to do.
If you have constructive ideas that do not devalue my options or experiences, I will listen.
Sent from my iPhone
I ask that when you talk about your options that you own them for what they are, your options. Your options are not The truth, they are your truth.
When you talk about me 'being' this or 'expecting' that those are your options. If you want to convey your thoughts and feelings please do exactly that and do not talk for me.
I have apologized for what I have said. I have acknowledged when I have made mistakes. I have stated what changes I will make.
I have no idea what else to do.
If you have constructive ideas that do not devalue my options or experiences, I will listen.
Sent from my iPhone
I got home before 8 PM and picked up Megan and we went out for a drink. I wanted some time to connect with her and make sure I wasn't being asshole of the year in her world. I do not wish to run my daughter's life. I want to help her when necessary and empower her whenever possible.
After we got back Bond and Z went for their walk and Golden asked me if I knew what he meant by options and devaluing them. I said I hadn't caught that part. I had read his last emails quickly and totally missed that part.
I quickly read them again and I couldn't understand what he meant by options and devaluing. I said I'd try. He something to the effect of good or he didn't think we could be friends. His tone was mean and it came across as an ultimatum.
When Bond and I went to bed I told him what had happened and we read the emails again. Bond thought that he had to have meant opinion rather than option, but he used it so many times and then in speech, so I wasn't so sure. He suggested I ask for clarity seeing as it was presented as an ultimatum.
Petunia
10:48 PM (14 hours ago)
to Golden
I'm confused by the terminology of "options" and devaluing them. Please clarify what you mean. I would let it go, but you've presented this as an ultimatum so I feel I need to understand.
Golden
1:46 AM (11 hours ago)
to me
Replace "option" with "opinion", do you need any further clarification?
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
Golden
6:33 AM (6 hours ago)
to me
My written words contain only part of my meaning.
Please let us talk face to face so that you can hear and feel what I am saying.
So, please when can you and I sit down and talk?
Sent from my iPhone
Please let us talk face to face so that you can hear and feel what I am saying.
So, please when can you and I sit down and talk?
Sent from my iPhone
At 7:05 he sent me this text:
I have a wonderful idea I want to share with you.
If you are open to hearing my idea this morning, please rely. What I have to share will take 5 mins.
I didn't see it until 7:35. I thought he'd be gone by then, but he was still home when I came out of the bedroom at 8:15. He explained his idea which is for us to use a code or keywords to identify when we are talking about something that is a parenting moment. That we could actually say, "parenting moment" or "parenting moment?" if we need to ascertain the context of the others remarks.
I don't know if it'll work, but we can try it. Good grief, we're getting all bent out of shape over my parenting my adult children - just how much parenting does that involve?
Anyway, things seem a lot better. We hugged. I activated the debit card and set the PIN. He's going to use it today to grocery shop.
Things I forgot to mention:
When we were having our break-up talk I asked Golden if we could still be friends and he said yes, that I've asked him three times before if we could be should we ever break up and he's always said yes, but then he said that I think ending our romantic relationship will improve things, but it may make it worse. That he may not be as patient or tolerant if we are only friends. Wow. I told him that I try to treat my friends with patience and tolerance, so I didn't know what to say to him.
When Bond and I were talking this morning, I told him that I was going to try really hard to be friends with Golden, because that was his big worry about me dating him should something go wrong.
He said, "Good, but can you imagine how much space we'll have if it doesn't work?"
I don't want that to happen, but it's nice to know where Bond stands if things don't work between Golden and me as friends.
When we were having our break-up talk I asked Golden if we could still be friends and he said yes, that I've asked him three times before if we could be should we ever break up and he's always said yes, but then he said that I think ending our romantic relationship will improve things, but it may make it worse. That he may not be as patient or tolerant if we are only friends. Wow. I told him that I try to treat my friends with patience and tolerance, so I didn't know what to say to him.
When Bond and I were talking this morning, I told him that I was going to try really hard to be friends with Golden, because that was his big worry about me dating him should something go wrong.
He said, "Good, but can you imagine how much space we'll have if it doesn't work?"
I don't want that to happen, but it's nice to know where Bond stands if things don't work between Golden and me as friends.
Last edited:
Tonight Bond and I are going out to eat and then over to B's to have our triad discussion.
Oh, I bet I didn't mention this...B had a date with Bea's husband, ArtCarGuy, on Monday night. It went very well and she was relieved to discover for herself (we've been telling her this) that he isn't as uptight as she feared. He's vegan and doesn't smoke, and runs marathons, so she thought he was all straight and narrow.
This really makes it a tight dating circle that could get complicated. Especially because ArtCarGuy tends to have jealousy issues, especially if he sees PDA's.
Oh, I bet I didn't mention this...B had a date with Bea's husband, ArtCarGuy, on Monday night. It went very well and she was relieved to discover for herself (we've been telling her this) that he isn't as uptight as she feared. He's vegan and doesn't smoke, and runs marathons, so she thought he was all straight and narrow.
This really makes it a tight dating circle that could get complicated. Especially because ArtCarGuy tends to have jealousy issues, especially if he sees PDA's.
Things seem to be transitioning into a somewhat comfortable zone with Golden, not that we've seen each other more than a few minutes since Tuesday night. This morning we had a nice text exchange of checking in on each other and wishing each other a good day.
Last night Bond and I ate dinner at a Mexican restaurant a couple of blocks from B's house. Bond ordered something that was listed as hot, but holy Batman balls, it was blazing. Like inedible. Bond is originally from Texas and he can handle spicy, but this was off the charts and quite frankly one bite of a shrimp of his and my stomach turned. I had to spit it out. He sent it back and had them bring him a similar dish and that was great. We both hate sending food back, but it's hard to imagine the cook tasted the sauce, because something had to have gone wrong. Maybe the jalapenos were more ripe this time or something. We both had two margaritas, one large and one small for me, and two large for Bond. We were glad we were just around the corner from B's house. Because of returning the one dish to the kitchen dinner took a lot longer than anticipated, so it was after 8 pm when we got to B's.
We had drinks, smoked some, and talked. We learned that there are no sleepovers at their house, because...kids. That B and WP (her husband) have just graduated to two sleepovers/month. That she has availability every other Saturday, every other Monday, and as always Thursdays - of which we do the group friend night that includes Rob/Ginge/Ready Yeti Red (take your pick of the name 'cause he answers to all) every other Thursday. Of those available date nights some will go to ArtCarGuy, as it appears she wants to explore things with him. She says our triad takes precedence, but I don't think it'll be a one or the other situation and it'll be very workable for her to have us and him and WP.
Before we reached home B sent us this IM:
This morning we woke to more IM's from her:
Then she posted this on her Facebook wall:
And back to the IM:
On our Pussy Cat and Trebuchet chat Rob sent this:
So what was all the blooming about last night?
Do tell... Inquiring minds want to know.
Petunia
blooming?
Ready Yeti Red
Haha. B's post with you two in it.
Ready Yeti Red
OOoh!
Bootielicious B
We decided to try the triad thing!
Ready Yeti Red
Fuck yeah! Good for you guy's!
Bootielicious B
Thanks!!!!
Ready Yeti Red
Thanks!
Bootielicious B
I am excited for new adventure in 2016!
Yes!
Bootielicious B
So many new things. Why not more
Ready Yeti Red
Yes
Precisely.
Bootielicious B
Go big or go home. That's my style
Petunia
But some things are already so great they don't need to be changed...like our every other Thursday dinner and drinks!
Ready Yeti Red
Well if you need a photographer....
Petunia
<cough>
Ready Yeti Red
Lol
Bootielicious B
Lol
Nothing will change
Just titles I guess
smile emoticon
Bootielicious B
And more spit
Petunia
Ha!
Ready Yeti Red
Ha
You three are very lucky.
Bootielicious B
I agree. Thank you Ginge
Ready Yeti Red
Petunia
Yes, we are. heart emoticon Thank you, Ready Yeti Red. We love you!
So, there you have it.
Last night Bond and I ate dinner at a Mexican restaurant a couple of blocks from B's house. Bond ordered something that was listed as hot, but holy Batman balls, it was blazing. Like inedible. Bond is originally from Texas and he can handle spicy, but this was off the charts and quite frankly one bite of a shrimp of his and my stomach turned. I had to spit it out. He sent it back and had them bring him a similar dish and that was great. We both hate sending food back, but it's hard to imagine the cook tasted the sauce, because something had to have gone wrong. Maybe the jalapenos were more ripe this time or something. We both had two margaritas, one large and one small for me, and two large for Bond. We were glad we were just around the corner from B's house. Because of returning the one dish to the kitchen dinner took a lot longer than anticipated, so it was after 8 pm when we got to B's.
We had drinks, smoked some, and talked. We learned that there are no sleepovers at their house, because...kids. That B and WP (her husband) have just graduated to two sleepovers/month. That she has availability every other Saturday, every other Monday, and as always Thursdays - of which we do the group friend night that includes Rob/Ginge/Ready Yeti Red (take your pick of the name 'cause he answers to all) every other Thursday. Of those available date nights some will go to ArtCarGuy, as it appears she wants to explore things with him. She says our triad takes precedence, but I don't think it'll be a one or the other situation and it'll be very workable for her to have us and him and WP.
Before we reached home B sent us this IM:
I guess we will get the kids used to the idea of others over and then it will be easier. WP is gone soon to CO. Maybe be a good time to start.
This morning we woke to more IM's from her:
Thinking about our talks make me realize how some of our poly rules are out dated. There is just no reason why sleepovers can't happen here. That IS just a super old rule.
You 2 are good for me.
Bond
That is good to reevaluate old rules every so often!
Last night was really good!
B
No doubt. Things have been the way they are for so long. When we first started years ago, the sleepover stuff got out of control. But now I see how things are sooo different now and healthier on ALL fronts including children. So it is time to evolve. I tend to drag my heels til I realize there is t anything to freakout about.
B
I'm excited about our new avenue. I do think we, I need to chat Rob ASAP
We are gonna have the best summer!!!
Bond
Yay!
B
I am so lucky to have you guys
Bond
We're Lucky to have you!
Petunia
Yes, we are very lucky.
We are going to have the best summer ever! So excited!
I keep revisiting this and I'm really amazed/impressed with all the processing you did, B.
B <3
You 2 are good for me.
Bond
That is good to reevaluate old rules every so often!
Last night was really good!
B
No doubt. Things have been the way they are for so long. When we first started years ago, the sleepover stuff got out of control. But now I see how things are sooo different now and healthier on ALL fronts including children. So it is time to evolve. I tend to drag my heels til I realize there is t anything to freakout about.
B
I'm excited about our new avenue. I do think we, I need to chat Rob ASAP
We are gonna have the best summer!!!
Bond
Yay!
B
I am so lucky to have you guys
Bond
We're Lucky to have you!
Petunia
Yes, we are very lucky.We are going to have the best summer ever! So excited!
I keep revisiting this and I'm really amazed/impressed with all the processing you did, B.
B <3
Then she posted this on her Facebook wall:
I am so lucky to have people in my life that push me to grow and bloom with Bond and I tagged.
And back to the IM:
B
I want to tell Rob today. I just want to dive in and get it over with. It prolly won't even be as bad as I think it will be.
I'm just tired of being scared of shit. Then I realized it so silly to be scared when I have you guys, WP, Rob, and Rye for such a solid foundation. So why be scared anymore?
Petunia
Good luck with it. I hope it isn't bad.
B
He will deal.
Petunia
That's a good mindset to be in. You don't win by trying to protect yourself.
B
Oh I know. It's my nature though
Bond
right. I don't think it will be bad.
B
He is insanely generous. He will be happy for us.
Petunia
We just have to act the same when we are with him so he doesn't feel like he lost something.
B
Exactly, and we do/will
I want to tell Rob today. I just want to dive in and get it over with. It prolly won't even be as bad as I think it will be.
I'm just tired of being scared of shit. Then I realized it so silly to be scared when I have you guys, WP, Rob, and Rye for such a solid foundation. So why be scared anymore?
Petunia
Good luck with it. I hope it isn't bad.
B
He will deal.
Petunia
That's a good mindset to be in. You don't win by trying to protect yourself.
B
Oh I know. It's my nature though
Bond
right. I don't think it will be bad.
B
He is insanely generous. He will be happy for us.
Petunia
We just have to act the same when we are with him so he doesn't feel like he lost something.
B
Exactly, and we do/will
On our Pussy Cat and Trebuchet chat Rob sent this:
So what was all the blooming about last night?
Do tell... Inquiring minds want to know.
Petunia
blooming?
Ready Yeti Red
Haha. B's post with you two in it.
Ready Yeti Red
OOoh!
Bootielicious B
We decided to try the triad thing!
Ready Yeti Red
Fuck yeah! Good for you guy's!
Bootielicious B
Thanks!!!!
Ready Yeti Red
Thanks!
Bootielicious B
I am excited for new adventure in 2016!
Yes!
Bootielicious B
So many new things. Why not more
Ready Yeti Red
Yes
Precisely.
Bootielicious B
Go big or go home. That's my style
Petunia
But some things are already so great they don't need to be changed...like our every other Thursday dinner and drinks!
Ready Yeti Red
Well if you need a photographer....
Petunia
<cough>
Ready Yeti Red
Lol
Bootielicious B
Lol
Nothing will change
Just titles I guess
smile emoticon
Bootielicious B
And more spit
Petunia
Ha!
Ready Yeti Red
Ha
You three are very lucky.
Bootielicious B
I agree. Thank you Ginge
Ready Yeti Red
Petunia
Yes, we are. heart emoticon Thank you, Ready Yeti Red. We love you!
So, there you have it.
Glad things are going well, and that you've reached some resolution with Golden.
Hubby and I have a "no sex with other partners in our home" agreement, which obviously precludes sleepovers here. In our case, it's partly because my kids live here, but since they're older they would probably grasp the concept. But it's also because Hubby can't tolerate the idea of me having sex with another man in our bed, and to be honest I'm not a big fan of it either.
And sleepovers... we only have a 3-bedroom apartment. There are four of us. If I had Woody sleep over, for example, where the heck would Hubby sleep?
Hubby and I have a "no sex with other partners in our home" agreement, which obviously precludes sleepovers here. In our case, it's partly because my kids live here, but since they're older they would probably grasp the concept. But it's also because Hubby can't tolerate the idea of me having sex with another man in our bed, and to be honest I'm not a big fan of it either.
And sleepovers... we only have a 3-bedroom apartment. There are four of us. If I had Woody sleep over, for example, where the heck would Hubby sleep?
More parenting commentary from Golden
So...once again, Golden and I are butting heads.
Hey [Petunia],
I have thought, felt and processed a lot about myself and us of late and I want to share some of what I have learned with you.
Before I start I need to prefix why I am using explicit language. There are times, like now, where **I** need explicit language. I need the distinction between my feels and thoughts to be clear. Sometimes I need there to be drawn out distinctions of other’s thoughts and feelings, or between me and another in more general terms.
So the use of explicit, direct and clear language is about me and has nothing to do with you. There are times however were I need others to do be explicit with me.
I acknowledge your desire to use explicit language, but I want to point out that in an exchange between two individuals it can be assumed that each person is presenting their take on the situation and they are not saying they have the empirical viewpoint. Thus it is not necessary to prefix every sentence with “in my opinion” or “to me it feels like,” and other qualifiers. To do so makes the exchange clunky and awkward.
Now on to the email!
My goal with this email is to express my thoughts and feelings in the present, past and possible future with you.
So let’s start with the present and future
I love you. I really do. While I accept that we are transitioning to being friends, I naively hope that we someday will discover a romantic relationship that is mutually rewarding. To be clear, I do not assume or expect the latter to happen, deep down I hope that I am right that it does happen, again.
Now on to the past
As much as I love you I also have come to accept over the last few months that what I and you wanted from our relationship were not the same thing. As sad as I am in the present, I think transitioning to friends is a good thing for me and you. I attempted to do this around Christmas and was only partly successful. In any case, I think our current path will lead to a new and healthier relationship. I don’t know what kind of relationship, but I bet it will be a loving one. In any case, I want to share with you my thoughts and feelings about happened recently.
This makes me happy, because I’d very much like to be good friends.
Please accept that the following is my current understanding and is not intended to represent the truth or your reality. I am sure your perspective and the meaning of events and situations will be different. Please respect my options and experiences even when they symbolize something very different to you.
Before I go on to my story of us, I want to share a couple of things about me which I feel are significant in this context.
At my core I am driven to be better, to become the best self I can be. This is a never ending quest, which I do not know if I will ever stop doing. I am often blind to how my goal of self-improvement affects others. I forget how the closer a person is to me, the more my drive to improve myself spills over on to them. Sometimes my drive is infectious and people jump on my bandwagon-of-awesomeness. Lol! Other times, I mistakenly put a person on a path the bandwagon-of-self-improvement whether they want to or not, and/or sometimes not in the way (or direction) they want nor is authentic to them… I am trying hard to be mindful and accountable of the latter, the negative influence I have on other.
You’ve expressed this to me multiple times, but I think your perception of how it affects others is skewed. Your drive to improve yourself should not spill over onto others. Self-improvement is not about others; it’s about self. If it’s spilling over onto others, then it’s not self-improvement. From my experience, it’s like you feel that you can improve others by drawing attention to areas you perceive as needing work. It’s like you are parenting your peers. Not. Your. Job.
To be honest, it comes off as condescending.
Our relationship has been hard for me for a long time. I have already talked about this so I won’t go into detail. While things got very rocky I fondly remember you saying in bed one night (sometime after Christmas), “I believe we are actually going to make it!”… I thought the same.
At the time, what I didn’t know was how Megan living here would challenge me (and us), in ways that I feel lead to the end of our romantic relationship.
To try and keep this short, I think three factors came into play, first is my drive for improvement, second, my desire to be authentic, third our unique emotional bond (which stemmed from our romantic relationship) and lastly your remarkable empathy ability with me.
Being authentic in this context is that I strive to be open, honest and vulnerable at all times. This means that I will do things and present myself in ways that at times appear fantastically courageous and at other times mind numbingly naïve; sometimes both can happen simultaneously. Lol!
I think the latter happened for me with regards to Megan living with us.
Note: It is crucial you believe what I am about to share with you, TRULY believe me when I state,
You are good mother.
Thank you.
Simply put, I honestly and whole heartily believe you to be a good mother. I have seen it with Taylor and at times with Megan and Josh. <--And this is where I want to tell you to shove it. You realize that you totally negate any positive comments you made in regards to my parenting when you put a qualifier on it, right? Nice job.
Do you realize that you have been privy to comments I made about my kids outside of their presence that does not affect their perception of me as a parent or impact their lives? You have no idea what they can handle or how they handle things. You do NOT know my kids. You have no knowledge of the history of my relationship with them.
You weren’t part of the heartbreaking conversation I had yesterday with Josh where he told me he is drinking himself to death – intentionally. You weren’t privy to me helping him see that he can make choices that will improve his life. You weren’t part of the exchange where I talked him off the ledge and gave him hope and encouragement and drew out of him what he would like to do with his life and then helped him formulate a plan on how to achieve that.
You haven’t been part of conversations with Megan about what she’d like to do in regards of where to live, Columbus or not, what she’d like for furniture and what she’s hoping I’ll help her with.
I don’t go all authoritarian dictating what they need to do. I listen to them, offer input if they want it, and support their decisions. And often I’m their cheerleader.
It occurs to me that you witnessed my parenting at a very uneasy time for me, so I probably wasn’t my best. Megan was in jail and then moving in with us. It was also Christmas time. The first Christmas I was celebrating with Bond and you. That had me nervous enough all by itself. There were so many levels of uneasy that it’s no wonder you saw some less than stellar parenting moments. But you need to back the fuck off now.
What I struggled with is that I have also seen you behavior in ways that I, and I think you too, would consider poor parenting. In my eyes you are a good parent, but at times exhibit poor parenting; this is truth for all parents, none of us are perfect. Truth. While I think this is an implicit understanding I want to be explicit with you and prove to you what I mean, I ask you to understand and accept the following…
To me, judgment is a final option delivered onto another, in this case I think the judgment you might be feelings is that I think you are a bad parent. I do NOT think that. I think you are a good parent, with a difficult past and even more challenging present, parenting adult children. This is my understanding and from my position I am in no place to judge you, nor do I want to. I can’t imagine how difficult it must have been to be an 18 (20) year old mother. I have no way of really understanding the hardship you faced and the choices you had to make.
I can however empathize and have compassion with you despite my inability to truly understand your lived experiences. Trust me when I say I can do these things (empathize, compassion, love and support without ultimate understanding), because I have busted-my-ass-off-in-the-last-two-years to do exactly that with [ex-wife].
I hope you finally understand and accept that I see you as a good mother who is doing her best.
Warning!... Now this is one of those times where I am going to be brave and naïve at the same time. I think you judge yourself too harshly on your past and how you could be doing better now. Please, make sure that when you are feeling judge that distinguish between your feelings and what you think I am feeling or thinking… I am not the one judging you.
to be continued...
So...once again, Golden and I are butting heads.
Hey [Petunia],
I have thought, felt and processed a lot about myself and us of late and I want to share some of what I have learned with you.
Before I start I need to prefix why I am using explicit language. There are times, like now, where **I** need explicit language. I need the distinction between my feels and thoughts to be clear. Sometimes I need there to be drawn out distinctions of other’s thoughts and feelings, or between me and another in more general terms.
So the use of explicit, direct and clear language is about me and has nothing to do with you. There are times however were I need others to do be explicit with me.
I acknowledge your desire to use explicit language, but I want to point out that in an exchange between two individuals it can be assumed that each person is presenting their take on the situation and they are not saying they have the empirical viewpoint. Thus it is not necessary to prefix every sentence with “in my opinion” or “to me it feels like,” and other qualifiers. To do so makes the exchange clunky and awkward.
Now on to the email!
My goal with this email is to express my thoughts and feelings in the present, past and possible future with you.
So let’s start with the present and future
I love you. I really do. While I accept that we are transitioning to being friends, I naively hope that we someday will discover a romantic relationship that is mutually rewarding. To be clear, I do not assume or expect the latter to happen, deep down I hope that I am right that it does happen, again.
Now on to the past
As much as I love you I also have come to accept over the last few months that what I and you wanted from our relationship were not the same thing. As sad as I am in the present, I think transitioning to friends is a good thing for me and you. I attempted to do this around Christmas and was only partly successful. In any case, I think our current path will lead to a new and healthier relationship. I don’t know what kind of relationship, but I bet it will be a loving one. In any case, I want to share with you my thoughts and feelings about happened recently.
This makes me happy, because I’d very much like to be good friends.
Please accept that the following is my current understanding and is not intended to represent the truth or your reality. I am sure your perspective and the meaning of events and situations will be different. Please respect my options and experiences even when they symbolize something very different to you.
Before I go on to my story of us, I want to share a couple of things about me which I feel are significant in this context.
At my core I am driven to be better, to become the best self I can be. This is a never ending quest, which I do not know if I will ever stop doing. I am often blind to how my goal of self-improvement affects others. I forget how the closer a person is to me, the more my drive to improve myself spills over on to them. Sometimes my drive is infectious and people jump on my bandwagon-of-awesomeness. Lol! Other times, I mistakenly put a person on a path the bandwagon-of-self-improvement whether they want to or not, and/or sometimes not in the way (or direction) they want nor is authentic to them… I am trying hard to be mindful and accountable of the latter, the negative influence I have on other.
You’ve expressed this to me multiple times, but I think your perception of how it affects others is skewed. Your drive to improve yourself should not spill over onto others. Self-improvement is not about others; it’s about self. If it’s spilling over onto others, then it’s not self-improvement. From my experience, it’s like you feel that you can improve others by drawing attention to areas you perceive as needing work. It’s like you are parenting your peers. Not. Your. Job.
To be honest, it comes off as condescending.
Our relationship has been hard for me for a long time. I have already talked about this so I won’t go into detail. While things got very rocky I fondly remember you saying in bed one night (sometime after Christmas), “I believe we are actually going to make it!”… I thought the same.
At the time, what I didn’t know was how Megan living here would challenge me (and us), in ways that I feel lead to the end of our romantic relationship.
To try and keep this short, I think three factors came into play, first is my drive for improvement, second, my desire to be authentic, third our unique emotional bond (which stemmed from our romantic relationship) and lastly your remarkable empathy ability with me.
Being authentic in this context is that I strive to be open, honest and vulnerable at all times. This means that I will do things and present myself in ways that at times appear fantastically courageous and at other times mind numbingly naïve; sometimes both can happen simultaneously. Lol!
I think the latter happened for me with regards to Megan living with us.
Note: It is crucial you believe what I am about to share with you, TRULY believe me when I state,
You are good mother.
Thank you.
Simply put, I honestly and whole heartily believe you to be a good mother. I have seen it with Taylor and at times with Megan and Josh. <--And this is where I want to tell you to shove it. You realize that you totally negate any positive comments you made in regards to my parenting when you put a qualifier on it, right? Nice job.
Do you realize that you have been privy to comments I made about my kids outside of their presence that does not affect their perception of me as a parent or impact their lives? You have no idea what they can handle or how they handle things. You do NOT know my kids. You have no knowledge of the history of my relationship with them.
You weren’t part of the heartbreaking conversation I had yesterday with Josh where he told me he is drinking himself to death – intentionally. You weren’t privy to me helping him see that he can make choices that will improve his life. You weren’t part of the exchange where I talked him off the ledge and gave him hope and encouragement and drew out of him what he would like to do with his life and then helped him formulate a plan on how to achieve that.
You haven’t been part of conversations with Megan about what she’d like to do in regards of where to live, Columbus or not, what she’d like for furniture and what she’s hoping I’ll help her with.
I don’t go all authoritarian dictating what they need to do. I listen to them, offer input if they want it, and support their decisions. And often I’m their cheerleader.
It occurs to me that you witnessed my parenting at a very uneasy time for me, so I probably wasn’t my best. Megan was in jail and then moving in with us. It was also Christmas time. The first Christmas I was celebrating with Bond and you. That had me nervous enough all by itself. There were so many levels of uneasy that it’s no wonder you saw some less than stellar parenting moments. But you need to back the fuck off now.
What I struggled with is that I have also seen you behavior in ways that I, and I think you too, would consider poor parenting. In my eyes you are a good parent, but at times exhibit poor parenting; this is truth for all parents, none of us are perfect. Truth. While I think this is an implicit understanding I want to be explicit with you and prove to you what I mean, I ask you to understand and accept the following…
To me, judgment is a final option delivered onto another, in this case I think the judgment you might be feelings is that I think you are a bad parent. I do NOT think that. I think you are a good parent, with a difficult past and even more challenging present, parenting adult children. This is my understanding and from my position I am in no place to judge you, nor do I want to. I can’t imagine how difficult it must have been to be an 18 (20) year old mother. I have no way of really understanding the hardship you faced and the choices you had to make.
I can however empathize and have compassion with you despite my inability to truly understand your lived experiences. Trust me when I say I can do these things (empathize, compassion, love and support without ultimate understanding), because I have busted-my-ass-off-in-the-last-two-years to do exactly that with [ex-wife].
I hope you finally understand and accept that I see you as a good mother who is doing her best.
Warning!... Now this is one of those times where I am going to be brave and naïve at the same time. I think you judge yourself too harshly on your past and how you could be doing better now. Please, make sure that when you are feeling judge that distinguish between your feelings and what you think I am feeling or thinking… I am not the one judging you.
to be continued...
cont...
Golden, I think you may be the most judgmental person I’ve ever encountered. Perhaps you should talk to your therapist about this to get some perspective. In fact, this letter and the email exchange we had on Wednesday may make good material to go over. I feel that you like to couch your inquisitions as curiosity, but the manner in which you bombard a person with questions surpasses curiosity. Your volley of questions are persistent and invasive. When questioned about your motivations for asking, you quite often say that you were ‘just wondering’ and that you ‘mean nothing by it.’ That smacks of dishonesty and evasiveness.
I have been trying to recall the time where because of your questioning I had a talk with Megan and told her to do something. I wish I could remember what it was. Anyhow, I felt bad about it and then come to find out that wasn’t what you were alluding to. I decided then, and I’m reaffirming it again, that I am done with allowing you to influence my interactions with my children.
I have a lot more to say, but I think this is enough for now.
I think we better back away from this and table it indefinitely.
Later on I want to share with you how I think your ability to read my emotions, which was enhanced by our emotional bond (from our relationship), made hiding my struggles (aka effects of Megan living here) impossible. Later I can explain my understanding of how my struggles, which are a type of criticism, were sensed by you and how the meaning of my struggles meant two very different things to you and me. I can go into detail for example, how I could make a comment or ask a question, which would contain criticism, but the meaning of that criticism be different. There are many layers to this that it is, but I can’t go into detail now.
**************************
Wow, I am so done with Golden expressing his opinion about my parenting. The friends I've spoken to about this are livid. I've been a bit surprised with what they've shared about how Golden makes them feel.
B thinks he just needs to be gone. From a couple of comments that Bond has made I'm starting to think it's not outside the realm of possibilities if things persist. But the best scenario is that things settle down and we can find peace living together.
Golden, I think you may be the most judgmental person I’ve ever encountered. Perhaps you should talk to your therapist about this to get some perspective. In fact, this letter and the email exchange we had on Wednesday may make good material to go over. I feel that you like to couch your inquisitions as curiosity, but the manner in which you bombard a person with questions surpasses curiosity. Your volley of questions are persistent and invasive. When questioned about your motivations for asking, you quite often say that you were ‘just wondering’ and that you ‘mean nothing by it.’ That smacks of dishonesty and evasiveness.
I have been trying to recall the time where because of your questioning I had a talk with Megan and told her to do something. I wish I could remember what it was. Anyhow, I felt bad about it and then come to find out that wasn’t what you were alluding to. I decided then, and I’m reaffirming it again, that I am done with allowing you to influence my interactions with my children.
I have a lot more to say, but I think this is enough for now.
I think we better back away from this and table it indefinitely.
Later on I want to share with you how I think your ability to read my emotions, which was enhanced by our emotional bond (from our relationship), made hiding my struggles (aka effects of Megan living here) impossible. Later I can explain my understanding of how my struggles, which are a type of criticism, were sensed by you and how the meaning of my struggles meant two very different things to you and me. I can go into detail for example, how I could make a comment or ask a question, which would contain criticism, but the meaning of that criticism be different. There are many layers to this that it is, but I can’t go into detail now.
**************************
Wow, I am so done with Golden expressing his opinion about my parenting. The friends I've spoken to about this are livid. I've been a bit surprised with what they've shared about how Golden makes them feel.
B thinks he just needs to be gone. From a couple of comments that Bond has made I'm starting to think it's not outside the realm of possibilities if things persist. But the best scenario is that things settle down and we can find peace living together.
Hi, KC.
It seems Golden and I have reached a new phase, the one where he is ass kissing and peppers the conversation with tons of innuendo. This weekend has been exhausting. I was crabby pants by last night. I just wanted a few minutes of peace.
Bond thinks it's because he doesn't want to be asked to move out, but I think it's because he wants to resurrect our relationship. Whichever the case may be, I'll be glad when he relaxes and acts normal again.
Having your partner entertain their partners in the home can be challenging, that's for sure. Once my daughter moves out and the front room/guest room is available again I'm sure I'll be dealing with Bond entertaining his gf's in the house more than I have to deal with it now. Presently because we have a full house and because I ended things with Golden we are faced with the "where will I sleep?" problem, too.
Ugh about Golden's current behavior. It seems from the things you've posted about him that he sometimes whiplashes between "I'm okay with this" and "I'm not okay." That must make it hard for you sometimes to figure out how to approach things with him.
I'm just as happy to have an excuse not to let Woody sleep over... Aside from the logistics, my house is usually a mess (Hubby and the offspring don't help with cleaning, and I'm physically limited sometimes in what I'm able to do without pain or exhaustion) and I'm kind of embarrassed to let anyone come over for any reason. Though the four of us agreed last night that Woody is welcome to visit, and Alt promised to help keep at least the living room clean since Woody's allergic to cats and we have three, two of which shed like crazy.
Woody has told me that when his wife was alive, they often had overnight guests, but arranged things so that either one of them had another partner over at home while the other went to their OSO's place, or one of them used the guest room while the other had the master bedroom. Sounds like a huge amount of complications to me, and I'm still dreading the day--which Woody says is likely quite far off if it happens at all--that he finds another nesting partner.
I'm just as happy to have an excuse not to let Woody sleep over... Aside from the logistics, my house is usually a mess (Hubby and the offspring don't help with cleaning, and I'm physically limited sometimes in what I'm able to do without pain or exhaustion) and I'm kind of embarrassed to let anyone come over for any reason. Though the four of us agreed last night that Woody is welcome to visit, and Alt promised to help keep at least the living room clean since Woody's allergic to cats and we have three, two of which shed like crazy.
Woody has told me that when his wife was alive, they often had overnight guests, but arranged things so that either one of them had another partner over at home while the other went to their OSO's place, or one of them used the guest room while the other had the master bedroom. Sounds like a huge amount of complications to me, and I'm still dreading the day--which Woody says is likely quite far off if it happens at all--that he finds another nesting partner.
Hmm, I haven't really considered that. My first husband roller coastered between emotions continuously so my metric may be skewed.
I feel for you. I don't get much help from Bond or the kids. Golden is supposed to clean as part of his room and board, but he and I have different ideas of what clean means. For him if it's picked up (somewhat) that's clean, and gauging by the home he shared with his wife our house is really clean by comparison.
I run myself nonstop on the weekends trying to get all the things done. I may need to let my need for things to be clean and organized slide some. I read an article, "Strong Link Found Between Dementia, Common Anticholinergic Drugs," this weekend that was rather sobering and scary, so now I'm attempting to stop my use of sleep aids. One of the downsides is that my sciatic pain breaks through my consciousness more easily when I don't use a sleep-aid. I don't think I will be able to do as much as I have been if I'm even more sleep deprived.
That sounds like what Bond and his wife did. I think that depending on which partner is staying with Bond this will be something I will struggle with some. I guess it'll be one of those things that will make me grow.
RainyGrlJenny
Member
This is childish and totally not helpful and not my business, but I have a strong desire to punch Golden in the neck on your behalf.
This is childish and totally not helpful and not my business, but I have a strong desire to punch Golden in the neck on your behalf.
LOL. Thanks!!!
He sent me a text yesterday and I ignored the bait. I just don't need it.
Golden:
"What are your thoughts about reading my story of us?
A description, from my perspective of how our romantic relationship started, flowed and transitioned to friendship?"
A description, from my perspective of how our romantic relationship started, flowed and transitioned to friendship?"
Me:
"Hesitant. Did you post it to Fetlife?"
Golden:
"Nope. I am not going to post it.
I essentially would be sharing my personal journey entry with you."
I essentially would be sharing my personal journey entry with you."
Me:
"What are your expectations of me reading it? What do you hope to accomplish?"
Golden:
"Over lunch I asked myself, what is the Golden & Petunia story? Aka, how have I grown (or not) towards being more authentic (aka a better person)?
What I started to write was essentially for me, a open, honest and vulnerable account of us, i.e. my current meaning after significant processing and critical perspective-taking.
To answer your question now, I have no assumptions nor expectations.
The closest thing to "expectations" is the hope that understanding my story of us, and how it has changed me, will be a good thing.
I say hope, because while your option does matter to me, the outcome for me is not dependent on you.
In short, I am writing this from a good place and one that I feel respects your and my boundaries in a healthy way."
What I started to write was essentially for me, a open, honest and vulnerable account of us, i.e. my current meaning after significant processing and critical perspective-taking.
To answer your question now, I have no assumptions nor expectations.
The closest thing to "expectations" is the hope that understanding my story of us, and how it has changed me, will be a good thing.
I say hope, because while your option does matter to me, the outcome for me is not dependent on you.
In short, I am writing this from a good place and one that I feel respects your and my boundaries in a healthy way."
Me:
"I appreciate the consideration you put into this, but I'm going to decline your invitation to read it. Thank you for the offer."
Golden:
"Understood. Thanks for listening to my question."
Thanks for listening to my question."BTW, you may have already caught on that he has an unusual tendency of using wrong words and tenses. Like option instead of opinion. He's not dyslexic, but there has to be something there that causes a disconnect.
Last night he was really off. He was separating himself from the rest of us and sighing a lot when he was around us. I hope he gets through this transition. Today he sent me an invitation to have lunch with him, but I had already eaten by then. I think I would have declined regardless.
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The Honey B
Something is going on with B. She's going through an emotional struggle and she hasn't shared the crux of it, but it has to do with WP (her husband) and some self-work she didn't complete in therapy. She wants to hold off starting anything with our triad until she gets some things sorted. While the main issue is not centered around the triad, from things she's said, she was under the impression that Bond and I were in a rush to jump into bed with her and that was causing stress, too. That's so far from what our actual wants are that it's an easy one to assuage. Judging from things she's messaged to us, that's not the heart of the issue and she said she can't even formulate it into words to share with us as her heart is too raw. She's been doing a lot of crying, on the weekend (fighting with WP) and this week. She said they had sex today and she cried. I wish she would share with us what is going on that is making her so miserable. Yesterday WP IM'd me and he's totally onboard with Bond and I starting a relationship with her. He thinks it'll be very good for B to be in a healthy, loving relationship. He said he thinks she's close to sorting things out and that it won't take long. But on our end we have no idea what bad demons she is chasing. She said it has to do with something from her youth.
WP and Bond are going to go for a drink one evening in the not too distant future. Bond has felt like he barely knows WP and he feels odd around him - and this was before we decided to become romantically involved with B. The nature of our friendship was so intimate and intense already that he felt a bit odd around WP on the few occasions their paths crossed. I think it's nice that WP reached out to Bond to set this up. WP and I dated way for a hot minute (8 weeks?) back in 2012 and we're very comfortable with one another. He's always telling me he loves me (as a friend) and he always introduces me to everyone at Polycocktails as his highest OKC match. And then tells everyone that it's no wonder B and I are best friends, because he and I are so alike. I smile and let it go, but WP and I are not all that alike. We share the same attitudes about sexuality and politics and social issues, but other than that we aren't all that similar. But if it makes WP happy to tell the world I'm the female version of him, then so be it.
Thursday is our friends night out and we're all very eager for it to get here. Ginge persuaded everyone to take a pottery class one of his coworkers is teaching. It's super early and I'll have to take vacation time to get out of work early enough to get to it. It should be a lot of fun, though.
After that we'll probably get dinner and drinks as our usual custom.
Something is going on with B. She's going through an emotional struggle and she hasn't shared the crux of it, but it has to do with WP (her husband) and some self-work she didn't complete in therapy. She wants to hold off starting anything with our triad until she gets some things sorted. While the main issue is not centered around the triad, from things she's said, she was under the impression that Bond and I were in a rush to jump into bed with her and that was causing stress, too. That's so far from what our actual wants are that it's an easy one to assuage. Judging from things she's messaged to us, that's not the heart of the issue and she said she can't even formulate it into words to share with us as her heart is too raw. She's been doing a lot of crying, on the weekend (fighting with WP) and this week. She said they had sex today and she cried. I wish she would share with us what is going on that is making her so miserable. Yesterday WP IM'd me and he's totally onboard with Bond and I starting a relationship with her. He thinks it'll be very good for B to be in a healthy, loving relationship. He said he thinks she's close to sorting things out and that it won't take long. But on our end we have no idea what bad demons she is chasing. She said it has to do with something from her youth.
WP and Bond are going to go for a drink one evening in the not too distant future. Bond has felt like he barely knows WP and he feels odd around him - and this was before we decided to become romantically involved with B. The nature of our friendship was so intimate and intense already that he felt a bit odd around WP on the few occasions their paths crossed. I think it's nice that WP reached out to Bond to set this up. WP and I dated way for a hot minute (8 weeks?) back in 2012 and we're very comfortable with one another. He's always telling me he loves me (as a friend) and he always introduces me to everyone at Polycocktails as his highest OKC match. And then tells everyone that it's no wonder B and I are best friends, because he and I are so alike. I smile and let it go, but WP and I are not all that alike. We share the same attitudes about sexuality and politics and social issues, but other than that we aren't all that similar. But if it makes WP happy to tell the world I'm the female version of him, then so be it.
Thursday is our friends night out and we're all very eager for it to get here. Ginge persuaded everyone to take a pottery class one of his coworkers is teaching. It's super early and I'll have to take vacation time to get out of work early enough to get to it. It should be a lot of fun, though.
After that we'll probably get dinner and drinks as our usual custom.
Shell shocked
B and WP had therapy this morning. She sent this IM afterwards.
I'm so mad at him. My heart is breaking for them. I hope they pull this out of the nosedive it is in. I want to message him and tell him he's being a fool. That if he lets their marriage go that he'll be full of regrets. Two young kids and a beautiful life will be tarnished.
B and WP had therapy this morning. She sent this IM afterwards.
WP is now living at Rye's.
For a while I guess. This is a secret.
For a while I guess. This is a secret.
Total bomb drop in therapy. I was never expecting this in a million yrs.
I'm so mad at him. My heart is breaking for them. I hope they pull this out of the nosedive it is in. I want to message him and tell him he's being a fool. That if he lets their marriage go that he'll be full of regrets. Two young kids and a beautiful life will be tarnished.
Yesterday morning Golden posted a picture of his daughter, Beanie, on top of my car clearing snow. The post was titled, "Feeling proud" and the comment he posted was, "Beanie helping me shovel the driveway. wink emoticon"
I posted, "Love that she's helping, but wow, she can't get on my car, please."
And then to Bond, B, and Ginge I sent an IM that expressed how I was really feeling.
Bond:
Well, I came here and let off steam.
Bond:
Bond posted to the photo thread, "that is NOT the driveway."
After seeing that, Golden sent me a text and the storm erupted.
Golden
Petunia
Golden
I am asking for your thoughts. I am not asking to to speak for Bond.
If I wanted to ask Bond I would, silly.
Golden
Golden:
Petunia
Golden:
Petunia
Golden
Petunia
Golden
PETUNIA
GOLDEN
PETUNIA
to be continued...
I posted, "Love that she's helping, but wow, she can't get on my car, please."
And then to Bond, B, and Ginge I sent an IM that expressed how I was really feeling.
Holy fuck, is Golden an idiot? He TOOK A PICTURE OF BEANIE ON MY CAR clearing snow. He took the fucking time to take a fucking picture of the kid on top of my car instead of getting her the fuck off of my car. WTF?!!!!
Bond:
what the actual fuck?
you were much more restrained in commenting that i would have been...
you were much more restrained in commenting that i would have been...
Well, I came here and let off steam.
Bond:
wow
so he saw her up there, and let it continue. when i saw her she was on the roof! and assumed when he came over it was to tell her to get down.
so he saw her up there, and let it continue. when i saw her she was on the roof! and assumed when he came over it was to tell her to get down.
One would have thought, but now that I see the picture I'm thinking it went a bit differently.
Bond posted to the photo thread, "that is NOT the driveway."
After seeing that, Golden sent me a text and the storm erupted.
Golden
I don't know what Bond meant. I assume his comment was in jest or neutral.
On the other hand, Bond's comment could symbolize he is support or even defending you.
What are your thoughts on Bond's meaning?
On the other hand, Bond's comment could symbolize he is support or even defending you.
What are your thoughts on Bond's meaning?
Petunia
I can't speak for Bond.
Question: what were your thoughts when you saw her on my car?
Question: what were your thoughts when you saw her on my car?
Golden
I am asking for your thoughts. I am not asking to to speak for Bond.
If I wanted to ask Bond I would, silly.
Golden
Re: your question, "what were Golden's thought when he saw Beanie on my car?!"
First thought: (Fuck!!!)
Second: (are you fucking kidding me?! I have told her year after fucking year to not get on cars!)
Third: (she looks so happy and she is really trying to help...)
Four: (when the car looks to be ok and I really don't want to chastise her for wanting to help and it is so nice that she is helping Petunia)
Five: (I really don't want to be angry with Beanie, I have been too hard in her for far too long... That isn't the kind of father I want to be.)
Six: (since the car is doing ok (but I keep an eye out!) I'll let her do it THIS time)
Seven: Nice job Beanie, please don't climb on the roof!
... Time passes...
Eight: (WFT?! She is on the roof?!!)
Nine: Beanie get off the car!
Beanie: ok!
Ten: why were you on the roof of the car?
Beanie: you said to clean the Windows. There is a window on the roof!!
Eleven: (speakless)
Twelve: ok, sweetie. Petunia doesn't need that window to drive. Please don't get on the car.
Beanie: ok, daddy!
Thirteen: (I love her)
First thought: (Fuck!!!)
Second: (are you fucking kidding me?! I have told her year after fucking year to not get on cars!)
Third: (she looks so happy and she is really trying to help...)
Four: (when the car looks to be ok and I really don't want to chastise her for wanting to help and it is so nice that she is helping Petunia)
Five: (I really don't want to be angry with Beanie, I have been too hard in her for far too long... That isn't the kind of father I want to be.)
Six: (since the car is doing ok (but I keep an eye out!) I'll let her do it THIS time)
Seven: Nice job Beanie, please don't climb on the roof!
... Time passes...
Eight: (WFT?! She is on the roof?!!)
Nine: Beanie get off the car!
Beanie: ok!
Ten: why were you on the roof of the car?
Beanie: you said to clean the Windows. There is a window on the roof!!
Eleven: (speakless)
Twelve: ok, sweetie. Petunia doesn't need that window to drive. Please don't get on the car.
Beanie: ok, daddy!
Thirteen: (I love her)
Golden:
What did you think I thinking?
OR... What are your current thoughts?
(Of course you never "have to" answer!)
OR... What are your current thoughts?
(Of course you never "have to" answer!)
Petunia
I questioned if you realized how upsetting it would be to see a post titled "feeling proud" for a picture of your daughter on top of my car. I am rather upset that you took the time to take a picture and then left her on my car. I knew she had been on top of my car roof, because Bond had told me he saw her on it when he came into the kitchen, but before he could say something to her you had walked up and spoken to her and she had gotten down. To now realize that you pretty much sanctioned her being on my car blows my mind. Very upsetting.
Golden:
Why so negative?
Did you read what my thoughts were??
Did you read what my thoughts were??
Petunia
Because she could scratch the paint and break the windshield.
I was answering how I felt when I saw the picture.
I saw your thought process and although I can understand how it went I'm still dissatisfied with how you handled it.
I was answering how I felt when I saw the picture.
I saw your thought process and although I can understand how it went I'm still dissatisfied with how you handled it.
Golden
Wow...
I take it you feel I did not take your feelings into great enough significance?
I take it you feel I did not take your feelings into great enough significance?
Petunia
My feelings? No, I'm not talking about feelings.
I think at the time the cost to you to have to teach her about respecting property and enforcing that she has to listen to rules was greater than the effort you cared to expend.
I think at the time the cost to you to have to teach her about respecting property and enforcing that she has to listen to rules was greater than the effort you cared to expend.
Golden
The cost to me? Meaning what?
You are coming off extremely negative and judgmental.
You are coming off extremely negative and judgmental.
PETUNIA
Cost in effort.
I'm judging your parenting in that moment and I'm finding it less than stellar. I'm pissed that you took the time to take a picture, didn't remove her from on top of my car and resumed shoveling.
I'm judging your parenting in that moment and I'm finding it less than stellar. I'm pissed that you took the time to take a picture, didn't remove her from on top of my car and resumed shoveling.
GOLDEN
Thank you
I disagree. I think that the parenting I did that morning was some of the best parenting I have ever done.
I am sad to hear you are upset. It sounds like you feel I should have put more value in the importance of following rules and importance of property.
Is my understanding of your anger and criticism of my parenting accurate?
I disagree. I think that the parenting I did that morning was some of the best parenting I have ever done.
I am sad to hear you are upset. It sounds like you feel I should have put more value in the importance of following rules and importance of property.
Is my understanding of your anger and criticism of my parenting accurate?
PETUNIA
Removing her from on top of my car immediately would have negated good parenting? You cannot see other choices where you could have reinforced your rule about not climbing on vehicles because of the risk of damaging them while still having a positive interaction with her?
to be continued...
Continued...
GOLDEN
PETUNIA
GOLDEN
PETUNIA
To whom?
Part of parenting is teaching respect for property and there are times she has to be expected to listen. She needs to judge for herself what the negative impact may be if she chooses to do something she has been told not to do. She is empowered to make that choice.
You could have gotten her buy-in by asking her to consider how I'd feel if she hurt my car.
GOLDEN
PETUNIA
GOLDEN
PETUNIA
GOLDEN
PETUNIA
GOLDEN
PETUNIA
GOLDEN
We took a break from the convo.
GOLDEN
PETUNIA
GOLDEN
From reading your question I get the impression you would have preferred I choose a course of action, which was positive and less negative, the latter meaning to take your feelings into account.
Yes, I can. Can you see what I did, in that moment, was great parenting?
I choose great parenting over good parenting.
Yes, I can. Can you see what I did, in that moment, was great parenting?
I choose great parenting over good parenting.
PETUNIA
No, Golden, I cannot. It was not great parenting.
GOLDEN
Why do you assume, I didn't consider other options?! That IMO is disempowering.
PETUNIA
To whom?
Part of parenting is teaching respect for property and there are times she has to be expected to listen. She needs to judge for herself what the negative impact may be if she chooses to do something she has been told not to do. She is empowered to make that choice.
You could have gotten her buy-in by asking her to consider how I'd feel if she hurt my car.
GOLDEN
Are there lessons, which are more important than "following the rules?"
Are there lessons, which are more important than understanding the value of property?
Are there lessons, which are more important than understanding the value of property?
PETUNIA
Do you have to have one or the other?
GOLDEN
FYI, my comment about disempowering was your question as it relates to me, and not to Beanie.
I do. Can you come up with reasons?
FYI, I'll happily answer your last question after you answer my last question.
I do. Can you come up with reasons?
FYI, I'll happily answer your last question after you answer my last question.
PETUNIA
Of course there are other lessons that are more important than teaching the value of property. I didn't say it was the most important lesson. I do feel it was a pretty important one in that situation, though. The value of the property plays into consideration too. It's not like this was a case of damaging something inexpensive.
GOLDEN
You are contradicting yourself.
This is what you just wrote.
Q: Are there lessons more important than understanding the value of property?
Petunia: yes
Petunia: However, I did not say the value of property is the most important lesson!
Petunia: But.. in this case it was very important.
Petunia: The value of the value of the property (aka the value of my car) should have been taken into consideration; my car is very expensive.
To me it sounds like you are telling me that in *this situation*, I failed to agree that the value of your car was the most important lesson for Beanie to learn.
If the above meaning is not accurate, please explain why?
This is what you just wrote.
Q: Are there lessons more important than understanding the value of property?
Petunia: yes
Petunia: However, I did not say the value of property is the most important lesson!
Petunia: But.. in this case it was very important.
Petunia: The value of the value of the property (aka the value of my car) should have been taken into consideration; my car is very expensive.
To me it sounds like you are telling me that in *this situation*, I failed to agree that the value of your car was the most important lesson for Beanie to learn.
If the above meaning is not accurate, please explain why?
PETUNIA
I answered that in the grand scheme of things it is not THE most important lesson. In my opinion, in this case it was.
It was at least one of the important factors.
It was at least one of the important factors.
GOLDEN
The reason I let her be on your car, in this case, was more important than a lesson about the value of property; even a lesson about expensive property.
The basis of my reasoning is in the thoughts I have already shared with you.
Thoughts, which IMO you have focus on interpreting in a negative way. I believe you have failed to look at my thoughts in the way I did, which is important if you are going to compare understandings.
Aka if you are going to compare your understanding to mine then understand mine. At this time it sounds like to me you have read my thoughts and superimposed your meaning to show how your original understanding is still true.
I ask that you re-read my thoughts again, but let go of your held meaning, and the emotions your meaning generate.
If you can successful separate your meaning and emotions then attempt to see the situation from *my* point of view.
If you can do the above and If you understand me well enough, you should be able to properly understand why I choose to parent the way I did. If you are successful you will understand how I consider my actions that morning to be some of the best parenting I have ever done.
Of course you are free to disagree. I just ask that you disagree after you understand my pov.
To be fair, I am pretty sure I understand your pov, which is,
'In this situation, the most important lesson for Beanie to learn was the value of expensive property.'
You acknowledge that there are lessons more important that property. I assume you also feel there are lessons more important than expensive property.
However, you, in this case, don't think there is a more important lesson to learn than the value of expensive property?
If this is inaccurate please explain how, from what you have written.
The basis of my reasoning is in the thoughts I have already shared with you.
Thoughts, which IMO you have focus on interpreting in a negative way. I believe you have failed to look at my thoughts in the way I did, which is important if you are going to compare understandings.
Aka if you are going to compare your understanding to mine then understand mine. At this time it sounds like to me you have read my thoughts and superimposed your meaning to show how your original understanding is still true.
I ask that you re-read my thoughts again, but let go of your held meaning, and the emotions your meaning generate.
If you can successful separate your meaning and emotions then attempt to see the situation from *my* point of view.
If you can do the above and If you understand me well enough, you should be able to properly understand why I choose to parent the way I did. If you are successful you will understand how I consider my actions that morning to be some of the best parenting I have ever done.
Of course you are free to disagree. I just ask that you disagree after you understand my pov.
To be fair, I am pretty sure I understand your pov, which is,
'In this situation, the most important lesson for Beanie to learn was the value of expensive property.'
You acknowledge that there are lessons more important that property. I assume you also feel there are lessons more important than expensive property.
However, you, in this case, don't think there is a more important lesson to learn than the value of expensive property?
If this is inaccurate please explain how, from what you have written.
PETUNIA
What you expressed was your thought process was 1) you controlled your anger several times, 2) you praised her, and 3) you decided to overlook the fact that she disobeyed you.
Did I miss something?
Did I miss something?
GOLDEN
Here is my feedback on the pov you shared, which is not a reflection of me at the time.
1) I did not control my anger, because I wasn't angry. I was exasperated at times, but not "angry", which is HUGE! The fact that I wasn't angry is a sign of significant growth, for me.
In the past, two years ago, I would have been angry and would have been controlling my anger, exactly as you just described.
2) I did technically praise her, but I don't know what you mean by this. I could see what you wrote to mean many things, some good, others not so good.
3) Incorrect. I did not choose to "overlook" her actions.
"Overlook" to me implies she did something wrong and is an implicit judgement on her behavior.
While I am her father and that means I have power over her. I try when ever possible not rely on power dynamics to parent.
To me and important element of empowerment is *not* using inherent power dynamics... Either for me or against another.
Does my pov, make more sense now?
On second thought with #3...
I did choose to "downplay" her wrong choice (to be on your car), because in that moment I felt it was more important to praise Beanie for what she was doing right. ����
In that moment I choose to honor the emotional value from her actions, knowing that later I could rationally teach her that her choice to be on the car was not-so-good.
Understanding the timing is crucial. Do you get my meaning?
1) I did not control my anger, because I wasn't angry. I was exasperated at times, but not "angry", which is HUGE! The fact that I wasn't angry is a sign of significant growth, for me.
In the past, two years ago, I would have been angry and would have been controlling my anger, exactly as you just described.
2) I did technically praise her, but I don't know what you mean by this. I could see what you wrote to mean many things, some good, others not so good.
3) Incorrect. I did not choose to "overlook" her actions.
"Overlook" to me implies she did something wrong and is an implicit judgement on her behavior.
While I am her father and that means I have power over her. I try when ever possible not rely on power dynamics to parent.
To me and important element of empowerment is *not* using inherent power dynamics... Either for me or against another.
Does my pov, make more sense now?
On second thought with #3...
I did choose to "downplay" her wrong choice (to be on your car), because in that moment I felt it was more important to praise Beanie for what she was doing right. ����
In that moment I choose to honor the emotional value from her actions, knowing that later I could rationally teach her that her choice to be on the car was not-so-good.
Understanding the timing is crucial. Do you get my meaning?
We took a break from the convo.
GOLDEN
I forgot to share with you that I would like to finish our discussion.
To me this conversation is very important.
On a related note, if you have thoughts to share, for whatever, I'll listen.
To me this conversation is very important.
On a related note, if you have thoughts to share, for whatever, I'll listen.
PETUNIA
I'm ready to resume our conversation.
1) you wrote your thoughts/emotions out with caps and explanation points, so you probably understand why I interpreted that as anger. Exasperation is a synonym for anger.
The fact that you are proud of yourself for repressing the more intense anger you would have displayed in the past reveals that your instant reaction was that she was doing something wrong. You state that you have told her for years not to do that.
From our exchanges and from what you've posted on Facebook it appears that you instructed her to clear my windows, but didn't provide her the tools so it was expected she use her hands. You witnessed her on my car, but didn't feel the need to tell her to get down until she was on the roof. Because at that point you decided she may damage the car, but that you were able to determine being on the hood wouldn't damage the car.
You most certainly did overlook her disobeying being told to not climb on vehicles. That's the definition of overlooking something.
**********
Dictionary.com
"To disregard or ignore indulgently, as faults or misconduct"
Only a parent could overlook that kind of behavior.
**********
Because you seem unwilling or incapable of enforcing rules and you seem to put little value on respecting property I'll start parking in the garage and you can park in the driveway.
1) you wrote your thoughts/emotions out with caps and explanation points, so you probably understand why I interpreted that as anger. Exasperation is a synonym for anger.
The fact that you are proud of yourself for repressing the more intense anger you would have displayed in the past reveals that your instant reaction was that she was doing something wrong. You state that you have told her for years not to do that.
From our exchanges and from what you've posted on Facebook it appears that you instructed her to clear my windows, but didn't provide her the tools so it was expected she use her hands. You witnessed her on my car, but didn't feel the need to tell her to get down until she was on the roof. Because at that point you decided she may damage the car, but that you were able to determine being on the hood wouldn't damage the car.
You most certainly did overlook her disobeying being told to not climb on vehicles. That's the definition of overlooking something.
**********
Dictionary.com
"To disregard or ignore indulgently, as faults or misconduct"
Only a parent could overlook that kind of behavior.
**********
Because you seem unwilling or incapable of enforcing rules and you seem to put little value on respecting property I'll start parking in the garage and you can park in the driveway.
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