Solo Polyamory Advice

TPowl90

New member
Hello [tips hat].

I'm relatively new to flirting with polyamory; very new to fully exploring it; and super new to this forum.

As an independent introvert who likes to make multiple part-time connections with individuals, I would say I envisage a non-hierarchical (my end) solo-polyamorous lifestyle as right for me.

Polyamory, however, can be a trepidatious path for the wide-eyed newbie, so I wondered if could pick the brains of the solo poly's on here:

A few questions that are on my mind:

- In monogamous dating, you reach the stage of having the 'exclusivity' or 'commitment' chat. Is there an equivalent in polyamory, and how do you approach that conversation?

- One aspect of monogamy that I do miss is having someone readily available when you're feeling down / in need of a loving embrace, or always on the other end of the phone. Do you have that in solo polyamory, or is it something that is sacrificed?

- How open and informing are you in your relationships? If you're dating someone on an ongoing basis as, say, a tertiary partner, should you know of all their other relationships, and vice-versa?

- Do you think soly-poly rolls off the tongue better? :p
 
I try to get that chat out of the way as soon as possible. That way I am not wasting my time or leading anybody on.

It can be a bit of a sacrifice. Sometimes all your partners are busy at the same time. I remember thinking sometimes, "Damn, I have 5 partners yet here I sit alone." That can give a feeling of loneliness even for an introvert.

Personally, I don't need all the details. Just an idea of what is going on so I can get a feel for how much time a potential partner has for me. I do appreciate knowing things like they have a standing Friday night date or something along those lines.
 
I'm not solo poly, and while I'm sure it works for some, I have some issues with it (not the concept, but the way I have seen people practice it).

But I guess my question to you is, how are you thinking that an exclusivity talk fits in with polyamory at all, let alone solo poly? When you're looking for an "equivalent", what does that even mean to you?

I'm not really getting how the "tertiary partner" thing fits in for you either. Hierarchical polyamory is generally on the other side of the spectrum as solo poly.

What does solo poly mean to you? Maybe it's a terminology issue?
 
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It depends what you mean by solo poly. Do you mean you have no plans to live with or co-parent with or marry a partner? So you'll have relationships but live alone and without legal entanglement?

With that sort of set up, there are sacrifices. When you have a nesting partner, you have the privilege of knowing their schedule and seeing them around the house. That makes it easier to be that person at the end of the phone. You can have lots of people at the end of the phone, though less entanglement does mean that your access to them is reduced. Particularly if they have the commitments you're avoiding with other people.

How open you are about other relationships will depend entirely on your wishes and the wishes of your partner(s).
 
But I guess my question to you is, how are you thinking that an exclusivity talk fits in with polyamory at all, let alone solo poly?

When I had a poly boyfriend, we discussed exclusivity after about a month. We talked about whether we were open to new partners or whether we felt saturated/satisfied with the parters we had. "Exclusivity" in poly means agreeing that the set-up is closed as it is. "Non-exclusivity" means that the possibility of new partners is always on the table. Polyamory only means that a person is able to romantically love more than one at a time, it doesn't necessarily mean that the doors are open to all additional people at all times. There definitely should be that "talk" in poly as there must be in mono. I've seen a number of poly situations go down in flames because the partners did not talk about exclusivity and saturation vs. non-exclusivity.
 
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I'm not really getting how the "tertiary partner" thing fits in for you either. Hierarchical polyamory is generally on the other side of the spectrum as solo poly.

It sounds like OP is aware that hierarchy may exist in some of his other partners' other relationships, and OP may hold a place (such as tertiary) in someone's hierarchical model, even if OP's own set of direct relationships is intentionally non-hierarchical (with respect to OP at the center).
... I would say I envisage a non-hierarchical (my end) solo-polyamorous lifestyle as right for me.
If you're dating someone on an ongoing basis as, say, a tertiary partner ...

So, non-hierarchical poly for OP's own connections, and no opposition to being labeled hierarchically with respect to their partners' own solar systems or polycules or whatever. It seems like a reasonable way to go about solo poly.


A made-up example

Suppose Andy has four current partners in a non-hierarchical (on his side) solo poly model.
  • One partner is Blaize. She is also non-hierarchical solo poly, with several other partners.
  • One partner is Carl. He is married to Zeke, and they consider their relationship primary. Andy is considered (by Carl and Zeke) Carl's secondary.
  • One partner is Dani. She is in a triad of co-primary nesting partners. They identify all additional partners as "tertiary," to emphasize the time and enmeshment available to anyone outside the triad.
  • One partner is Eddie. She doesn't have any other partners, and her life and Andy's aren't significantly enmeshed.

Andy doesn't worry about being called Carl's secondary and Dani's tertiary. Andy lets Carl and Dani manage that stuff over on their hierarchical side.

Andy doesn't call Carl his secondary or Dani his tertiary. He doesn't consider Eddie his primary. He just calls them all "partners" and works within their offered availability.
 
Hi TPowl90,

I think that in solo poly, you decide how that looks for you, and act accordingly with your various dates/partners. Does solo poly mean for you that you are always going to live alone? that you are always going to be childless? How involved will you want to become with the people you date? Will you have any long-term partners? How many partners will you have? Do you want them to always be available to chat? Do you want to know of all your metamours, and do you want your partners to all know about each other? Whatever your answers are, discuss those answers with the people you date, so that they'll know what they're signing up for.

There's really no one set of right answers, poly comes in all shapes and sizes, and so does solo poly. Do it as best suits you!

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Try solopoly.net

Aggie eventually gave up solo poly but her blog is interesting and she came up with the solo poly /secondary bill of rights.

Being a "solo" requires a particular amount of self-reliance and direction.

If your other partners can't supply emotional support when times are bad then:

1) You need to build self-soothing skills.
2) They are not a partner, they are a fuck buddy or FWB.

Solo poly is not about being being alone in the tough times and the great times, it is about having relationships while being "solo responsible" for your own "stuffness of life". And that is my very humble opinion as a solo poly person of 7ish years.

And what I have found over those 7ish years is that being solo means you get pushed aside for nesting partners and drama partners.

I am possibly being a little bitter with this posting. But, at the end of the day, I mostly do whatever I bloody well want to, because I am solo. Ha!
 
It can be a bit of a sacrifice. Sometimes all your partners are busy at the same time. I remember thinking sometimes, "Damn, I have 5 partners yet here I sit alone." That can give a feeling of loneliness even for an introvert.

Do you feel free to message your partners any time, or hesitant? Is it just a case of 'Hey, are you free for a chat?' type of thing?
 
It depends what you mean by solo poly. Do you mean you have no plans to live with or co-parent with or marry a partner? So you'll have relationships but live alone and without legal entanglement?

Pretty much, although I live with housemates (I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing for solo polyamory) and I am potentially open to the possibility of a primary partner.

It sounds like OP is aware that hierarchy may exist in some of his other partners' other relationships, and OP may hold a place (such as tertiary) in someone's hierarchical model, even if OP's own set of direct relationships is intentionally non-hierarchical (with respect to OP at the center).

Totally right.

But I guess my question to you is, how are you thinking that an exclusivity talk fits in with polyamory at all, let alone solo poly? When you're looking for an "equivalent", what does that even mean to you?

In monogamy, dating turns into a relationship when you agree to exclusivity, but how does a relationship develop in solo polyamorous dating? Do you just have a chat one day about whether you want this to be more than just dating?

When I had a poly boyfriend, we discussed exclusivity after about a month. We talked about whether we were open to new partners or whether we felt saturated/satisfied with the parters we had. "Exclusivity" in poly means agreeing that the set-up is closed as it is. "Non-exclusivity" means that the possibility of new partners is always on the table. Polyamory only means that a person is able to romantically love more than one at a time, it doesn't necessarily mean that the doors are open to all additional people at all times. There definitely should be that "talk" in poly as there must be in mono. I've seen a number of poly situations go down in flames because the partners did not talk about exclusivity and saturation vs. non-exclusivity.

Does this mean that by this point you'd already agreed that you'd gone beyond 'dating' and transitioned into something more ongoing, or was that part of the same discussion?
 
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Hi TPowl90,I think that in solo poly, you decide how that looks for you, and act accordingly with your various dates/partners. Does solo poly mean for you that you are always going to live alone? that you are always going to be childless? How involved will you want to become with the people you date? Will you have any long-term partners? How many partners will you have? Do you want them to always be available to chat? Do you want to know of all your metamours, and do you want your partners to all know about each other? Whatever your answers are, discuss those answers with the people you date, so that they'll know what they're signing up for.

There's really no one set of right answers, poly comes in all shapes and sizes, and so does solo poly. Do it as best suits you!

This is good advice, thank you. I'm trying not to enter into relationships with too many rules, but rather let things blossom.

If your other partners can't supply emotional support when times are bad then:

1) You need to build self-soothing skills.
2) They are not a partner, they are a fuck buddy or FWB.

Solo poly is not about being being alone in the tough times and the great times, it is about having relationships while being "solo responsible" for your own "stuffness of life". And that is my very humble opinion as a solo poly person of 7ish years.

This is great too. Cheers.

When you say you can be pushed aside, does this happen often, and has it been a big issue for you? I don't mind being secondary, but I feel emotional support is important to me.
 
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I think there is a chasm between "solo poly" and "possibility of a primary partner". Many people see solo poly as a commitment to not subscribe to the idea of a primary partner, even if it so happens that you do have traditional looking entanglements. So one of my friends who won't shut up about being solo poly actually lives with one if her partners. But they see each other as housemates. They don't share a room and have completely separate finances. For her,sharing a room and combining money would eradicate her "solo" label.
 
Does this mean that by this point you'd already agreed that you'd gone beyond 'dating' and transitioned into something more ongoing, or was that part of the same discussion?
We transitioned from friends to "something more ongoing," there really was no dating period during which we were trying on several people at once (if that's what you mean by dating.) We talked all the time, not just once. We talked a lot about how we felt and about what we wanted, etc. The "exclusive" talk was a Moment, though. It was a beautiful and meaningful talk for both of us when we spoke out loud about feeling complete with the partners who were in place. The exclusive talk came out of many other talks, so it felt natural.
 
I'm solo poly, and I think it's awesome. Although I have definitely had some difficult and bitter experiences (like what Atlantis described) in the past, I have been lucky to arrive at an arrangement that is working really well. I'll share it so you can get a sense of some possibilities for what solo poly can look like.

My partner Elijah and I have been involved with each other for almost 8 years. We've decided at this point that we are life partners--but we will never live together, or legally marry. Neither of us have or want children. We live kind of far apart (almost 2 hours) but we are both very happy with our respective living arrangements. It would be nice to live closer to each other someday, but that would mean at least one of us having a different job (or a terrible commute).

I love living in the country. In my early 30s, I happily moved back to my childhood home in a rural town, got a job in a small city nearby, and took over co-owning the house with my parents. My dad has Parkinson's, my mom needed help, they wanted to stay in their large house which needs a lot of work, and I couldn't afford to live on my own (at least, not in a quiet, woodsy area). So, I've been building a happy life as an adult sharing a home with my parents, dealing with eldercare and house repairs, but able to have my own space and the solitary time I crave. (Plus, it was an idyllic location for my dog, although she died this year).

Meanwhile, I began dating Elijah casually. He lives in a big city almost 2 hours away. He is very much a city person, which is one of the many reasons we are not compatible to live together. At the time I met him, I was on the rebound from a terrible breakup and trying to figure out my solo poly identity. I really just wanted casual sex at the time. But Elijah and I very quickly became good friends (well, friends who have a lot sex!). We got along fantastically, and were on the same page about non-monogamy / poly/ relationship anarchy. Eventually we fell in love, but we weren't planning on it, and it seemed more of a progression of our friendship than of the sexual aspect, somehow.

Anyway, throughout the whole time, we talked constantly about what we wanted and how it would work. The logistics of the distance between our houses can be daunting and tiring sometimes. But the living apart has always been great for both of us.

Elijah has always lived in an apartment with roommates. Last year his roommates moved out and he lived alone, but it wasn't affordable and he gets lonely (he's more of a relationship anarchist than solo poly). Then a friend experiencing a breakup moved in with him--they get along fantastically as housemates and have become sort of best friends/platonic family. She's also poly, has several partners, and after her breakup has decided to keep her living arrangements separate from her dating relationships. (Which is essentially what solo poly is).

So, Elijah has a fun roommate who might be his permanent platonic nesting-mate. (I like her, but I would be very annoyed if I had to live with her! She is talkative and extroverted--just like Elijah!)

In terms of poly, Elijah and I have never been exclusive. Nor have we ever achieved a state of being "content with the partners we have now." Nothing else has worked out for me, and I've been too busy to do much dating, although I'd like another partner. Meanwhile, Elijah has a very active dating/sex life. He is super extroverted with a very high sex drive, and is very kinky. He's had many various partners over the years. Currently he has another steady partner of a few months, who is also solo poly. And he has a "comet" partner who lives across the country but visits his area for work every few months, so they see each other for a weekend a few times a year. And recently he's had some dates with someone who might become a regular kink/play partner.

From my perspective, this all works great because I don't live with Elijah. Even if we had separate bedrooms, I would be annoyed by all these metamours in the common space. Plus all the screaming would keep me up at night ;)

My point is, being solo is actually a VERY effective way of doing polyamory. I think that point often gets lost when poly people discuss solo poly. Not living together eliminates half the problems and almost all of the hierarchy, if you ask me.

It seems like when the topic of solo poly comes up, there are always poly people popping up to say "Well I guess that works for SOME people but I could never do it!" or "I know one person who is solo poly and they are very selfish so now I am skeptical of solo poly!" Which is obnoxious, and also funny because that's EXACTLY what many mono people say about polyamory!

So, I would like to see more polyamorous people chilling out about the topic of solo poly. Having separate living spaces and separate finances is a GREAT way to do poly.

Solo poly, for me, is really just basing poly on being an individual rather than being a couple, and forming connections between independent individuals. (It's fine to want to be a couple, and in fact a very succinct definition of polyamory is "forming couples with more than one person," but there are other ways to do poly, for sure).

For the OP, I was in your shoes when I was starting out. It was very hard to define what I wanted. Especially because I was essentially "single and dating" and trying to figure how that was, or was not, similar to being solo poly. I was drawn to solo poly because I liked being single and dating non-exclusively VERY much. But at first I thought I would have to avoid falling in love & avoid having "serious" relationships if I wanted to keep doing it! And mainstream mono men quickly abandoned me for "real" relationships :(

Now I realize that love and partnership is possible while still being solo. I can date other people as much or as little as I want. I have a serious partner who loves me. We talk every day, but he doesn't have to be involved in my daily life (which would irritate me and bore him). He is my emergency contact. He spent a day in the hospital with me (and my mom) last year when I had surgery. He would take care of me if I had an emergency, and vice versa. He comes to my family events. He visits periodically to help my parents with stuff, which he calls his "son-in-law duties" :) but he doesn't have to be involved in my parents' daily eldercare.

In fact, he's visiting later today to help my parents with a project. But he's going to be late because he spent this morning helping my metamour (the other solo poly lady) find new housing, which was kind of an unexpected emergency for her. I think he may be providing some emergency financial help to her, which he doesn't need my permission for because we're solo and it's not my business! So, this an example of 3 solo poly people being supportive of each other, and everything is working great.

One final bit of advice for the OP: I found that the key to being solo poly was to find people who understood what I was looking for and were looking for the same thing. People who value friendship more than leaping into a serious romantic commitment right away. People who are independent and/or very solitary. People who do solo poly or relationship anarchy themselves.

Although I theoretically wouldn't mind being a married poly person's secondary--I could have my own life & my own independence--I found I just didn't have much in common with people who decided to get married. I was, after all, looking for an ALTERNATIVE to marriage. And I found it :)
 
I'm solo poly, and I think it's awesome.

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I have so many questions, but I’ll try to limit them :)

Is there an expectation that you discuss dates, hook-ups, or potential relationships? What do you consider as cheating?

Is solo polyamory difficult when you both live with other people, especially if he's kinky. Also, can you have extended periods together?

Are you his only ‘love’? Has this declaration changed anything between you, or any of the other relationships? I've had polyamorous relations, but never fallen in love with a polyamorous person, and I don't know how I'd respond.

You talk every day and seem to have regular companionship, but how does this fit around all the other relationships? This feels like a tricky part of solo polyamory to me.
 
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Thank you so much for sharing your story. I have so many questions, but I’ll try to limit them :)

These are great questions. Let me me answer them in order of easiest first.

Is solo polyamory difficult when you both live with other people, especially if he's kinky. Also, can you have extended periods together?

Having other people in the house can be difficult for having any dating/sex life! I don't know that solo poly in particular is more difficult than any dating would be in those circumstances. Yes, it can be a challenge to share a house with my parents. No, I don't have loud kinky sex when they are home :). They are open-minded former hippie-types themselves, they know I'm poly and they don't have any judgments or disapproval, but yeah, when Elijah visits me we do have quiet, inhibited sex :) My dad is still able to travel, so he and my mom do go away periodically, which I take advantage of.

In general though, I visit Elijah more than he visits me. Typically I go to his apartment every other weekend. His current roommate/best friend is a burlesque dancer and kinky person herself. She is out a lot, doesn't care if Elijah has loud sex when she's home, and has loud sex herself. His ideal roommate! Prior to that, his roommates were mostly random Craigslist people who kept to their rooms. They may have hated him & his loud sex. One time early in our relationship, I thought we were home alone and I was...loud...and it turned out his roommate's mom was visiting. She did not look pleased. Oops.

Elijah and I also take weekend trips periodically. (And I travel on my own a lot, where I could theoretically have sex with someone else if I wanted).

So far, me bringing other dates to my parents' house hasn't happened yet. I tend to not do that until the relationship is more established. I'm sure it's similar to the challenges faced by single parents who are dating.

Are you his only ‘love’? Has this declaration changed anything between you, or any of the other relationships? I've had polyamorous relations, but never fallen in love with a polyamorous person, and I don't know how I'd respond.

No, he's fallen in love with 2 other people over the past 7 years. The first one ended up breaking up with him to go monogamous with someone else, which really hurt him but they remained friends. She's no longer with the other dude, but didn't want to get back together with him, and is still in his life as a friend. He kinda still loves her. The second one, they had a volatile relationship and broke up & got back together like 4 times, finally for good. She is poly, had other partners; I was never quite sure what their deal was. They loved each other but just seemed to not get along. Finally they had to sever all ties and Elijah has seemed happier since then.

With his other current partner, I could see it leading to love.

He also had a sort of long-term casual partner who developed feelings for him that he didn't return, so that was kind of sad for both of them and their connection ended because of it.

This kind of stuff, you just have to figure it out as you go along. It works for me because Elijah has so much energy--emotional, sexual, etc--that he could love lots of people at the same time and everyone would get enough. He is happy having a date night with someone every night...I need nights alone, especially weeknights, to just rest or binge Netflix or whatever.

It didn't just immediately all come together like this. A few weeks after I met Elijah, when it was VERY casual still, he met someone else that he thought he loved (before he loved me) and he thought he might even go monogamous with her. I was frustrated (because that had already happened to me) but I didn't even know Elijah enough to be in love with him at that time. So I thought things were over, but it quickly didn't work out with her (they were both very young then, like 25...I was 30 at the time) and Elijah & I became friends, and Elijah realized very soon that he NEVER wanted monogamy. But it was sort of a process.

He DOES worry that if I fall in love with someone else, I would only have very limited time left for him, given that I need so much alone time. In truth, I don't feel like I have to date someone else, so I haven't.

You talk every day and seem to have regular companionship, but how does this fit around all the other relationships? This feels like a tricky part of solo polyamory to me.

Well, for me it started with friendship. I wasn't sure Elijah and I would keep the sexual part of our connection, but I REALLY liked him as a person & friend. As a friend, from the very beginning, he would tell me about all his other dating adventures (and misadventures). He likes to do a lot of sexual stuff that I don't like, so rather than feel jealous, I just felt objectively interested, like he was a fascinating character. Then, as I got to know him, I also got to know the other people in his life--an array of friends, exes, casual partners, casual partners who became friends, sometimes a serious partner, etc. (This is a relationship anarchy thing, the blurriness of friends & lovers). They were all cool people whom he genuinely cared about. And they in no way affected his feelings for me.

Is there an expectation that you discuss dates, hook-ups, or potential relationships? What do you consider as cheating?

This is kind of tricky because I think I am on the extreme end of wanting total autonomy / no rules or restrictions for non-monogamy. It wouldn't work for a lot of people, but it works for me, and for Elijah. Elijah doesn't ever have to ask my permission for anything. Although he definitely loves telling me about everything. Not sex details, I mean he just talks about all the dates he goes on (he does on many that don't lead to anything). He uses condoms with everyone (even he and I use condoms) for intercourse and is tested frequently.

I don't think there's anything either of us could do that would be cheating. There was only one time when I told him I didn't want him to sleep with a particular person. He had a housemate (this was like 7 years ago) who was rude to me and had a flirty dynamic with him. She was also a raging alcoholic and was engaging in very unsafe sex practices (which she told Elijah about and he told me about). He definitely enjoyed flirting with her. She made me super uncomfortable and I did have to tell him that this would be a limit for me--I wouldn't be comfortable dating someone who got involved with her, but I would remain friends with him if he did. I did NOT like putting up that limit. (In the end, she moved away and went into recovery and is now doing much better). It was early enough in our relationship that I wasn't sure how things would go.

Elijah was actually quite young when I met him (25 to my 30, at the time), so some of our dynamic was that I wanted him to have the freedom to be in his 20s and figure things out. It's been cute watching him grow up, actually :)

I was also a complete mess emotionally when I met him, and because of that I didn't really want to have any serious partner AT ALL at the time, but that is another story altogether.
 
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Do you feel free to message your partners any time, or hesitant? Is it just a case of 'Hey, are you free for a chat?' type of thing?

For me, messaging isn't the same as being with someone. I spent a lot of time on the road. I could message anyone at anytime. Whether or not they could chat depended on if they were busy or not. Sometimes I would have 5 conversations going on at the same time, sometimes none.
 
Now I am not being a grumpy ass, I'll add a little more. And apologies for my earlier contribution. It was an inappropriate response to your reasonable questions.

Discussing dates, hook ups etc.

I don't do it much anymore. I tried a more open kitchen table type of poly for years and it backfired on more than one occasion. I find that discretion is the better part of valor.

Cheating:

I don't think when you truly embrace Solo that is there no cheating on your side. The joy of solo is the autonomy. I don't share what I do in my time away from you and I have not much interest in what you do with other partners when we are not together.

Living together:
I don't really think Solo includes living with someone. It's kind of the definition of Solo. I see Solo as maintaining your own space and control over what happens in that space. If a partner moved in, I would not consider myself to be Solo anymore.

Being in Love:
The is the polyamory part of "Solo Polyamorist". I can love more than one person, my partners can love more than one person. I don't restrict their love and they don't get to restrict mine. Triangulation is a thing.

Communication:
Depends on the person. My longest running partner and I can chat all day and then not chat for days. We send an :) acknowledgment of a message if we are busy.

In cases of dire emergency:
That is when you have your Solo network and very much yourself to fall back on.

I have no family in this time zone or even in any reasonable time zone so I have my friends for different stuff. I have set-up multiple zombie apocalypse disaster scenario plans. Who feeds the menagerie, where do the kids go, who takes control of the insurance plans and the deeds to the house? Poly partners may, or may not, be utilized. My oldest poly partner is in charge of all the financials but is definitely not part of the pet feeding circle. My BFF is my legal medical decision maker. I printed the papers, got them witnessed, and have them filed. I call a different friend for critters in the house and different friends for when life gets overwhelming. That is the tough part of Solo Poly. One does not rely on other romantic partners for support of any kind. Sure, if they are able to it is great, but Solo ( to me ) really means that you manage it all yourself and utilize your network of non-romantic people.

Self Soothing:
Learn strategies for self-soothing and choose what fits you. At the end of the day, ( IMHO ) you can have all kinds of support but you need to be able to find calm and support yourself when times are hard. Having someone to hold your hand and cuddle is all great and good, but the hard work comes with finding peace and acceptance in yourself. At a certain point in life the deaths and whatever various hardships occur. Nobody can fix this for you. You need to hold onto to your inner self and care for that inner self while still getting on with the stuffness of life.

Rewards:
The Solo Poly gets to love and care for whomever they want. They get to experience multiple loves with few, if any, restrictions. You do your best to keep your loves safe but also get to see them fly free. Solos have time in which they can do whatever they want. iI you want to be with a Solo and love a Solo for being a Solo then the Solo gets to do Solo stuff ( within whatever you terms you consider reasonable) with little recourse.
 
The joy of solo is the autonomy. I don't share what I do in my time away from you and I have not much interest in what you do with other partners when we are not together.

See, this is one of the parts that confuddles me a little, Atlantis. Do you mean specifically about sex/romantic love, or in general?
 
Sex and romantic love.
All the regular business if life is shared.
 
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