Spouses involved already?!

G

GrowingTogether

New member
I'll provide more of the back story in my blog thread. For this I'll try to stick to the details relevant to the question at hand.

If you're in an open / poly relationship. At what point do you think it is appropriate to meet the spouse of the person with whom you're considering a new relationship?

Details:
- I'm in a newly open marriage (ethical / consensual and all that)
- I put up a profile on a dating site
- received a message from a woman in a similar situation (married, newly open, not very experienced, etc.)

She wants ALL of us to get together right off the bat. We've had only the briefest of message exchanges. I think it's promising, but far from clear that I even like her enough to pursue a relationship. She's told me that she thinks there isn't a lot you can learn about a person by exchanging messages, so she wants to get together. Bottom line is I don't know enough about her to know if she's even a likely candidate for a friendship. So I'm pretty uncomfortable sitting down with my wife and her husband for a big talk about the situation before I even know anything about this woman.

Am I off base here?

My preferred approach would be to exchange some messages first, over the course of a few days, to get to know each other (to the extent possible before meeting in person) and then meet one on one* to see if this feels like a relationship we'd like to pursue. And then, if we get to the point where we think we'd like to be friends at least (or certainly if more than friends) we would meet spouses and become familiar enough that we can trust each other.

I feel like the alternative is basically a job interview for a job I'm not even sure I want. Am I being weird about this?


*I would not be at all opposed to her having her husband drop her off or meet me for a handshake and a quick introduction before moving along and allowing her and I to introduce ourselves.
 
Yeah... that would feel like a really weird request to me too and like the situation was too forced.

I see 2 separate issues here.

1) Meeting a date's partner: I hate the idea of meeting a date's partner on the first date. It feels way too much like the person I'm on the date with needs to get "approval" from their partner. Or like the partners don't trust each other, and as you mentioned, like an interview panel. Even if I hit it off very well with the person I'm on a date with, there's no guarantee that I'll like their partner or how much we'll want to get to know each other. So having that person forced on me from the start is just weird.

2) How soon to go on a date from online talking: This is a matter of preference between people. I know some people who like to meet right away, because they don't want to waste days or weeks talking online only to find out on the first date that there's no in person chemistry. I, on the other hand, feel like I get a good sense of the person if I talk for a while online and would rather spend time feeling them out to see if a date is worth it, than to risk going on a super awkward first date. To me, in person time is much more valuable than the time it takes to exchange messages throughout the day. But really it's all a matter of preference.

HOWEVER, I find that the in person date comes with the most risk, so I think it makes sense to move at the pace of the slowest person there. I have definitely had people tell me that they are the "quick date up front" type of person and I just say "I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not comfortable with that so I have to talk to someone online for a while and get a sense of them first." If they're not willing to do that, it's a non-starter for me, personally.


Combining those 2 issues together and that's just red-flag city for me that's saying you haven't even been on a date yet and you have incompatible dating styles. Personally, I'd suggest saying that you're not comfortable with that arrangement and that's not how you and your partner have agreed to approach dating and she'll either be ok with it and you can work something else out, or she won't and move on.
 
The only advantage of meeting everyone quickly is that you can be sure that no one is cheating and just presenting themselves as being poly or in an open relationship. Once that is established, you may never see the spouse again.

I'd rather establish some connection first, but you can establish a connection only to find out they've been lying - then you have to break the connection. So, it could be a waste of time either way, but meeting quickly will usually screen out the liars.
 
Thanks very much to both of you for your responses, breathemusic and central. It's helped me at least feel like I'm not totally inept in all of this.

I had thought about this potentially being a way for them to be sure that I am in fact actually in an open relationship (i.e., they want my wife there to be sure I'm not cheating). When I shared with this woman that I was uncomfortable with this sort of sequence of approvals (i.e., getting approval from the husband before I "am approved by" and "approve of" her), I suggested that if there was some other sort of concern (like the cheating thing) I'd be happy to explore another way to assuage their concerns.

I also said that if there is a safety concern - maybe she's scared of meeting alone with a strange man - I would be happy to meet with the husband when we first get together (i.e., quick hello and handshake), as long as we can then proceed to one on one conversation with her. She's still pretty adamant that I meet at least with her and her husband (though she's backed off a bit on my wife being involved).

My wife and I have been pretty clear that it's up to each of us individually to pursue our own relationships. We want to be aware of each others relationships, and we want to meet anyone the other might be wanting to pursue as "more than a friend", but otherwise we're just inconveniencing each other by being roped into every new conversation with someone that comes along, and we're not really interested in that.

Thanks again for the advice and the insights.
 
It's my impression - and often acknowledged by other people - that it is much more difficult for men to meet women in an open/poly relationship than it is for women who are in open relationships. My wife would have no difficulty meeting multiple men a week if she were so inclined, whereas I have difficulty meeting a few prospects a year. If she weren't willing to verify our agreement, I'd have even less opportunities. It's fine to agree to do your own thing separately, but that places a huge additional burden on men (usually), if their SO isn't willing to verify. Yes, it's inconvenient, but without that support I'd rather just close the relationship again.
 
central said:
It's fine to agree to do your own thing separately, but that places a huge additional burden on men (usually), if their SO isn't willing to verify. Yes, it's inconvenient, but without that support I'd rather just close the relationship again.
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Yes - I should have been more clear. It's not that we're not willing to verify each other (as necessary). It's that we don't need or want to be involved in the details. So something more than a total barrier between relationships, but something less than a full fledged job interview scenario.
 
central said:
I'd rather establish some connection first, but you can establish a connection only to find out they've been lying - then you have to break the connection. So, it could be a waste of time either way, but meeting quickly will usually screen out the liars.
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It'll probably help screen out the liars, true. It will also screen out people like me who do not team date.
 
Are you sure the invite is this interview you are expecting? It wouldn't be outside my comfort zone to hang out with another poly couple to see how we get along. I don't team date but in the really early getting to know you phase a chill dinner sounds like a nice, low pressure way to see if anything clicks as friends or in other ways. But I wouldn't think of it as a date. Just hanging out with new people who share some common ground you are all newly exploring.

If it is an interview that would freak me out.
 
As a rule of thumb, I would think it would be appropriate to "meet the spouse" shortly before the first date, or shortly afterwards. But it's also a matter of preference and if someone wanted to meet with the spouses extra early on that wouldn't be the end of the world. Then again, never meeting the spouse wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world either.
 
I think the quick introduction to the husband before the date should be enough, just for safety concerns. You aren't really going to get to know each other very well if her husband is sitting right there; you won't be yourself. Waste of time, really.
 
We had K2 over for dinner and a movie before she and R started dating. I'd actually met her once before, but it was at a party we had. Personally, I liked the opportunity to get to know her better, but it was a little awkward at first.
 
A little update.

I communicated my concerns with her over text message (i.e., how I didn't want to audition for her husband before either her or I have auditioned for each other). This led to some pretty good back and forth over text. It sounds like we are going to get together later this week for coffee. I'll meet the husband when we first get together and then he'll vacate and let us get to know each other a bit one on one.

She made it pretty clear that his / their main concern is her safety, and I can understand that. They want to know I am who I say I am, basically. So that makes sense. I'm still intent on finding out if I even like her before I go in depth with the husband, but I think we've found a bit of a compromise.

It was quite helpful having a back and forth over text. Maybe it's my introvert, but that was kind of what I'd been looking for anyway.
 
GrowingTogether said:
She made it pretty clear that his / their main concern is her safety, and I can understand that. They want to know I am who I say I am, basically.
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My litmus test would be to suss out if this "quick meeting" at the beginning of a date needs to be with the husband, or if it could be with any comforting friend.

If it would be exactly the same to have her show up with a trusted buddy (male or female) to say hello, and make sure that someone has seen us together then fine.. it's just a safety concern. I would find it to be paranoid and it would color how I view them as an independent human - but at least I would understand that.

If it needs to be the husband to come out with her and "make sure I see him"... that's something completely different. That is a team dating power play and I would leave it at the curb.
 
Marcus said:
If it needs to be the husband to come out with her and "make sure I see him"... that's something completely different. That is a team dating power play and I would leave it at the curb.
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Thanks for this insight, Marcus. Can you expand a bit on what you mean by "team dating power play"?

This is the first time either of us have done this, so I am pretty inclined to believe they are being honest in their reasoning. I could be wrong, and I guess either way it will be a learning experience.
 
Filter my responses through the understanding that I do not team date, and I avoid any kind of romantic entanglement with people who do. I am way out on the independent end of the spectrum.

GrowingTogether said:
Thanks for this insight, Marcus. Can you expand a bit on what you mean by "team dating power play"?

This is the first time either of us have done this, so I am pretty inclined to believe they are being honest in their reasoning. I could be wrong, and I guess either way it will be a learning experience.
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Relationship hierarchy is something that people will protect whether they realize that's what they are doing or not. When someone insists that their husband (not just an un-involved ally) show up and "introduce" themselves before they can have a real conversation with me, they are making a statement about their relationship in association with me. I take that statement to mean "we are in a relationship, and you are a person I am allowing my partner to speak with". It's a demonstration of solidarity as if I am some kind of threat.

Why would I be a threat? Why are they insecure about me?
This kind of insecurity comes about because the couple is clinging to their home base, their security zone, their couple. They will defend it against me, and they are demonstrating as much to me.

That's what I mean by team dating power play.
 
Marcus said:
Filter my responses through the understanding that I do not team date, and I avoid any kind of romantic entanglement with people who do. I am way out on the independent end of the spectrum.



Relationship hierarchy is something that people will protect whether they realize that's what they are doing or not. When someone insists that their husband (not just an un-involved ally) show up and "introduce" themselves before they can have a real conversation with me, they are making a statement about their relationship in association with me. I take that statement to mean "we are in a relationship, and you are a person I am allowing my partner to speak with". It's a demonstration of solidarity as if I am some kind of threat.

Why would I be a threat? Why are they insecure about me?
This kind of insecurity comes about because the couple is clinging to their home base, their security zone, their couple. They will defend it against me, and they are demonstrating as much to me.

That's what I mean by team dating power play.
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I guess I'm still just trying to get my head around the phrase "team dating".

It sounds like maybe this is all dependent on what one is after in a relationship? For instance, I'm not really concerned if they're trying to protect their primary relationship, because I'm not really interested in having a relationship with this woman that is on the same level as her relationship with her husband. I'm certainly not hoping to have her reach the same level as my wife.

I was wondering if you were thinking there was some sort of honesty problem here, or if it was more something that would raise a red flag for you personally, given how you approach your relationships?
 
I'm married. Hubby and my boyfriend have met and get along pretty well, but don't often interact in any way. That's fine with me; I have a bit of a compartmentalization issue, so times when I've been at social things where both Hubby and my boyfriend were present, it felt very strange and awkward for me. Likewise when I've been at social things where any of my boyfriend's other partners were present.

I didn't ask Hubby to meet my boyfriend until it became obvious that the relationship with my boyfriend was becoming intense. On the flip side, a guy I've been going on occasional dates with since last summer has yet to meet Hubby or my boyfriend, and I'm perfectly fine with that. I think *he* would like to meet my other partners, but I'm happier if he doesn't.

I prefer not to date men who are married or have nesting partners for a number of reasons, one of which is that I'm not necessarily comfortable interacting with metamours. If it's a *requirement* that I interact with them, forget it... I'm out of there. In my experience, it being a requirement is more common with men who live with a partner than with men who have other partners with whom they don't live.

When I meet someone for the first time, if it's the result of an online conversation, I make sure it's in a public place and tell Hubby and/or my boyfriend where I'm going and who I'm meeting. But I don't ask anyone to go with me. And if a guy who wanted to meet me insisted on bringing one of his other partners, I wouldn't want to meet him.

Everyone does things differently, but I don't think it's unreasonable not to want a metamour hanging around on a first date or first meeting. I also don't think it's unreasonable not to want to be around metamours at all. For me personally, it's the "kitchen table poly", "everyone must be friends" style of poly that's unreasonable, but that doesn't mean it's wrong, only that someone who insists on it wouldn't be compatible with me.
 
GrowingTogether said:
I guess I'm still just trying to get my head around the phrase "team dating".
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Fair request for clarification. I generally use team-dating, couple-centric, and hierarchical, interchangeably.

If a person I am in a relationship with (to whatever degree) makes decision about our relationship based on some other relationship they have, that would be team-dating to me (and explicitly hierarchical).

I date one person at a time, even when I'm dating multiple people. Those experiences and relationships are independent of what any of my other partners may or may not want. Once I allow partner A to influence how I interact with partner B, I have started down the road of team-dating.

GrowingTogether said:
It sounds like maybe this is all dependent on what one is after in a relationship? For instance, I'm not really concerned if they're trying to protect their primary relationship, because I'm not really interested in having a relationship with this woman that is on the same level as her relationship with her husband. I'm certainly not hoping to have her reach the same level as my wife.
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Exactly. You and I are looking for very different things and we view relationships from vastly different perspectives.

I am not trying to persuade, just express another point of view.
 
No way

I would not meet with both on a first date. If we were meeting at some kind of event that we happened to be going to (i.e. not a date), I'd be marginally ok.

First, first dates where you find good chemistry are a low probability event. But it's hard enough one on one, let alone with a third person there vetting you.

I totally don't buy the "safety" issue. Talk about overkill. It's easy enough to meet in a public place, have a safety call/buddy in place, whatever.

Getting vetted by two people, yeah, just kind of wreaks of couple's privilege.

Don't get me wrong tho, I have no issue whatsoever meeting with a partner when there is enough reason & interest. But chemistry is one on one.
 
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