stories in extended triad land

Did this just happen?

Willa did her Willa thing and burst in on Amy tonight, saying "I'm ANGRY at you for how you're treating us!" They went downhill/uphill from there. Downhill in the sense of saying hard things, uphill for having said them and had them honored and listened to.

In sum, it's what it's been for weeks. Amy really has to leave. She can't take being around married couples, not during her divorce, not right now. She can't stand being reminded of what she doesn't have.

But then she gave Willa something, and said she had something for me, too. Keys to her house.

She's going away now. Would we please be there, when she gets back? Would we stay open to her return? We asked her to be strong and independent and meet us on a solid foundation, and now she's working on that, because she knows it's the right thing. Would we please keep her in our hearts until then, and maybe it will work out again in the future?

I was speechless, then I burst into tears, and then I nearly passed out because I forgot to breathe. Willa was there holding me upright, not surprised at my reaction. Why? She literally fell over when Amy handed her the keys, landing on the ground, just plopping down on her butt.

This is so totally unexpected.

(maybe I'll go do her dishes regularly, because I like doing her dishes...)
 
thawing and moving closer?

Last night, I spent time with Amy and now, Willa is over at Amy's place. It's not the relationship of old, but something happened in the past few days that makes me wonder if we're coming up with something healing between us all. It's not just Amy giving Willa keys. It's also the conversation last night.

We spent hours together, dinner and then hanging out and talking about our work lives. Shared stories, laughed our heads off, opened up about all sorts of hard things. We talked about what Willa is seeking, and perhaps there was a sense that it's available to us. It's really possible, after all the pain of the past 2 months, to find back to the place where what we mean to each other can be expressed without really holding back.

It's the constraint of holding back that seems to be underlying a lot of problems. Hiding our affection and emotion. The few times the non-married couples have been more open in public - holding hands together, arms around each other - have been mostly safe, and we're pretty sure that a lot of people in our circle of friends know what is going on. But to be ACTUALLY open? Yeah, that's not possible for us. I wish it were. I'm the more open one, but they are hesitant about the kids, about their friends, and more. They have both said they'd be ready to have ME have a girlfriend, but EACH OTHER?! Well... in the past, no way. Now? Both are more okay with it. Same-sex relationships have taken time to get used to.

Speaking of, Willa HAS been at Amy's for a while. I sure hope they're having fun, cough cough. Laughing.

Who knows what happens next. Amy and I had a GREAT time last night, trusting, open, emotional yet safe. And I spent the night for the first time in a while. Maybe we bridged to a better place. Maybe we're on the way to improving something? I don't know.
 
You're a determined mofo, I'll give you that.
 
Laughing. I guess there are reasons for me to be determined. Much of the upheaval in our life is not about our life - it's about Amy and her history and what it means to be in a relationship, what she's confronted with, and where that takes her. Being determined, in this case, means being there, even when she tells us to go away. And then being there still, when she comes back from her internal travels...
 
Coming out in pieces

Willa and I have been struggling with Amy's distance from us - as well as her incredible nearness at times, the desire she has for nearness, followed by an incredible distance and pushing away again. It's such a goddamn roller coaster. Knowing the person, loving the person, understanding the person and why she does it, and standing near enough to be there but not so near as to be punched in the next round of lashing out at the world... it's fucking rough.

So we have finally talked to some friends. For those of you who are "out," my god, what a luxury that must be. To be witnessed, understood, and have gone through the weeding out of who will and who won't be your friends after this is revealed.

It began when Willa started telling a friend. Wow, that was powerful. A short conversation, but it was safe, and there was no turning away. For Willa, it was fear - she felt a deep need to reassure the friend (a woman) that she was only attracted to Amy, not all women, that ... well, she's still struggling with loving a man and a woman. Her friend's response was totally cool. Just totally fucking cool.

Soon after, I had a chance to talk to that friend's husband. Turns out he'd thought I was having an affair with Amy (his wife told Willa). Good eyes, buddy, good eyes. It's not an affair, it's a relationship. I talked to him, and we did something really deep and wonderful - a trust exchange of marital internals and personal secrets... holy shit, that man is amazing. I felt so safe walking out of that conversation. (Later, I saw her, hugged her, said "thank you," and she said "ohcomeonwhatareyoutalkingabout - we love you!" followed by a seriously intense hug...

I wish we'd had this relationship witnessed when it was happening. Both our friends commented about that - why now?! Well, yeah, good question, you know? It's late, now, and probably too late. But to have it witnessed is a big deal.

Amy and I are talking about how and when I can spend the night. When her kids are there - no. They come into her room at night, regularly, and she doesn't want me there until she can tell them "he'll be there, and he'll ALWAYS be there." God, I want that. But we're not there, right now, and it's rough going, and impossible to know if we'll ever make it there. God, I hope.
 
Blogging better

I just read some of the early blog posts here on this thread, and it's painful to read the hope and synergy of the beginning. I didn't blog while things were going badly. Now I wish I had. That way, I could go back in time and find when the tone changed, when things shifted. I think I know what it was and when it was. But I sure do wish I had a better record of where we were...
 
Honestly, I think your biggest problem is that you keep wishing that what you have should be different than what it is. The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is appreciate the relationships you have for what they are, instead of hoping they will turn into something you think they should be. Live your life in the here and now.
 
Closing down the blog

Well, this blog has played out its story. Time to close down. If I write more, it'll be on a different topic.

Amy has gone through another cycle of leaving for good, this time for good. Ha ha.

The joy of spending time with someone as insightful and observant as her is that you feel seen and known and find passion with someone who has gone to their innermost spaces and explored them thoroughly. The sadness of it is that the person has learned these skills because of the shit they dealt with as a kid and in a shitty marriage - there is wariness, lack of trust, and need for safety.

In the end, Amy didn't want the compromises connected to my marriage. A huge deal is that she wouldn't actually enter my house - hasn't showed up for months, and the whole relationship played out at her house, as a result. It was an imbalance that never allowed us to establish ourselves in a normal life. The only way to succeed in our relationship was to do what she'd done - leave my spouse. She wanted me to live with her, but didn't want to take me away from my family in the process.

There are a lot of details not worth rehashing - in the end, we weren't able to find common ground, and she left. I wanted her to be co-primary, she wanted me to be primary, and we couldn't find a way to do it.

Thanks everyone for reading.
 
Some processing time

Willa and I have been spending lots of time processing what has happened with Amy. Since October, Amy's been saying the same things - dating a couple, wanting more time with us, being more primary, and more. We had, at the time, agreed to move at the pace of the slowest person in the group, which was pretty consistently Willa.

Now, Willa is feeling guilty about her decisions and hesitation. But what can you do? She wasn't ready, and she DID transition, very far from where she'd begun. That wasn't fast enough for Amy, though. Things weren't right early on, and after that, no change was going to be enough for her to change HER mind.

I feel bad that I couldn't be closer to Amy as we each patiently waited for Willa to change (Willa herself was waiting to change, working on things, but that takes time). Amy saw me on the other end of the divide - ironic, because she was as protective of Willa as I was. There were plenty of times when I tried to talk about couple privilege and avoiding it - and Amy pushed back and was a bigger proponent of it than I was. That was actually hard on me, because dammit, I didn't want the couple privilege! I was pushing for something more open, and patient enough to wait for Willa. Amy ended up impatient, and blamed me for sticking with Willa, regardless of how much she herself did, too. Only at the end did Amy blame Willa, too. Then again, people say a lot of raw crap when they're hurt.



For various minor reasons, I see Amy regularly, while Willa does not. But, Willa and Amy are probably going to be able to find back to a friendship that Amy and I will not - at least for a long while. Then again, because we see each other regularly for other reasons (and have to interact) it means we can't sink into total unawareness of each other. I suspect that we'll all find back to some way to connect to each other at least in talking in a civil way. Might take a few months. Amy sure wasn't civil, which was basically the last straw. Sigh.

I said I'd stop the blog. I'm still reading the boards (busy at work, not much time, though). Just don't know what to write, or post, anymore. This is me processing, kind of for archival purposes, not more.
 
As part of another thread I started, asking for advice when Amy tried to re-engage after the newest round of breaking up, I wrote this:

======================

I let this week play out, and it's once again over (but this time for real? laughing at that statement, though I actually believe it now).

In the end, someone dealing with divorce and depression and her remarkably ugly past (i.e., the source of the PTSD) is not someone I can deal with in a trusting, honest way. Each conversation revises the past one. Her revisions of the past are monumental - I had to check in with Willa (and Willa with me) on the question of "did this happen? what is she talking about?" We found, too often, that what we were being accused of was exactly what we'd been offering to her (we offered help she turned down, now she says we didn't help her, that kind of thing).

We have (painfully) severed ties. There were a few more conversations, and it became clear that her accusations of our evildoing were protective defensiveness - and now I'm done.

It's shockingly painful. But the person I thought was there was still hiding layers upon layers of contradictory emotion. Poly and nonmonogamy flow through her blood, but not in the way I can engage with, right now.

The only solution is to stop engaging her. And, as important, to stop letting her engage us. Ow, and yay.
 
how to help a friend

Is it possible to rescue a friendship out of all this? Amy wrote a heartrending email about all the things going on in her life. It was a cry for help, frankly, from someone who consistently turns down help but craves it after the turn-down. So what is going on?

Her life is just a total shambles. What a hot mess. Her way of breaking up with Willa and me (independently, because our "triad" space had broken apart long ago) really wasn't kind. And yet, she asked (without asking) for our presence. And she craves for to be there even as she pushes us away. She needs someone.

We're not that someone. We CAN'T be that someone. The best we can do is to listen, but we can't do any more than that. For someone who needs help, that's barely enough, and it's almost unkind to do it. She needs something more than us and us being there only stop her from seeking the greater help she needs.

The way to help her is going to be for her to get help. I don't think she wants our help, nor has she hit that rock bottom space where she asks for more structural help. Until she does, I know to protect myself. And yet it aches to watch someone fall apart like this.
 
Could you tell her this? Perhaps other than the "protect yourself" part?

If you don't want to be unkind, then perhaps giving her some explanation, rather than simply saying "no", would help?
 
Hi wildflowers... Willa and I have talked, this morning, about how to help without trusting Amy to be help-able. And you're right, part of that is me telling Amy what I said here. I don't need to talk about protecting myself. I just have to do that. But the rest of it, the care that goes into saying "can you find someone?" is really meaningful.

Finding out that Amy helped herself, before reaching out to us, was really good, too. She took a major step yesterday, which I only found out about last night after Willa got home. That gives me hope that Amy might recover some of her Self out of the place where she is now. God, depression sucks.
 
an update of sorts

Well, it's been a month, and I thought I'd return to writing a bit. Haven't really been on the forum. Took a break. Recovered and recuperated, found health where I needed it. Focused on exercise, my body and my health. Focused on friendship, my social world and my surroundings.

Through all of this, Willa and I have been talking about what happened and why.

Amy has been part of the conversation. She's gone through some of her own serious soul-searching, and we are talking more normally, now. We've recovered some of our closeness, but not our assumption of intimacy. Basically, we couldn't quit each other, any of us, but anything resembling a triad is long gone. The individual relationships exist, but different from how they were.

Willa wrote Amy and me a deep, meaningful letter, saying out loud what had been clear for months, already. We have an open marriage. We are no longer monogamous. What's important is that this was written after the wreckage with Amy, and during a time when we were barely talking to each other - not a long time, but a time of gathering our wits, defining who we are on principle and not due to a person, and recognizing where we've come from where we were. That Willa would "name" an open marriage is a huge deal. We've come a long, long way since last spring.

Amy, for her part, has done things she didn't do for months and months. She's come to our house, just casually. She's casual about things, closer to us now that things "are over" than when things were in crisis. There are reasons for it - we've had serious conversations about conversation styles, ways we've engaged (or not) with each other, the difficulties we've gone through, and how we were each doing "the right thing," just it was the wrong thing, for the other person, too.

So we're seeing each other. Amy was invited to our house for dinner tonight and laughingly said she'd have a 45% chance of showing up. She didn't. We're okay with that. Something is easier, something is calmer again. The blame is gone, the anger is gone, the ultimatums and the wild swings from black to white to black to white again - all gone. It's like the old Amy is back, someone I knew a long time ago, before things started going badly.

Right now, we're trying to see how we can be friends, again. That does involve physical intimacy like cuddling and kissing (and maybe more), but it's not the same glowing lust as before. NRE? Slaughtered and laid to rest. Mostly, there's no touch, of any sort - just sometimes, there is. Mostly, there's good talk - sometimes, it's hard again, but we are more gracious in backing away from hard spots, rather than escalating them. We talk about them later, heal quickly. A big blowup could have happened a few weekends ago. Instead, it ended with "oh, THAT was what you did, and THIS is why you did it - I get it!" Funny how the basics can, sometimes, seem so hard to learn.

I probably will continue not to read the boards. The tone doesn't sit well with me, and I continue not to see myself in most of the postings. I'll lurk, but not write. Maybe (given how busy the rest of my life has been, but is no longer), I'll start reading more often. We'll see.
 
rebooting - wasn't ready - being out

Back in a low-to-no-blogging phase of my life. Thought I'd write a bit, though.

A few nights ago, I spent the night with Amy. Tonight, Willa might. Our "triad" is no longer, but we're back to seeing each other as couples, in a way.

Things have gotten immensely better for all of us. Medication, moving, more understanding of each others' desires and goals. Things are simply much, much calmer. I won't guess as to what made the biggest difference, but things feel radically different from, say, February or March.

Amy needed us to see her as she is, but she also started seeing me (and Willa) as we are, too. There was a time when she gave back some things we'd given her, and we talked pretty intensely about what had happened. Her powerful words were "I'm sorry. I wasn't ready." No accusations, no sense that everyone else was doing something wrong. We've all been touched by a deep humility.

And, yeah, Willa has a date with Amy tonight. I hope it goes well for them.

We're talking, this time, about not hiding like we did before. The kids are going to find out soon. They've already been told a few things in age appropriate language, but we're going to tell them more adult versions of "we have a non-monogamous relationship with another non-monogamous person" pretty soon. Part of that is because of spending the night - "where's dad?" needs an answer, and "where's mom?" does, too! We'll see how that goes, when it happens.

Being more out with our friends has also been helpful. Some know what has happened, and know that things are changing. Some even want to invite all three of us, so that we can BE NORMAL in some settings - these friends really get it. Willa told her mom, too. Reaction? Total normalcy. "Oh, THAT explains what was going on for you guys last time I was here. Now I get it. Plus, she's a lovely woman..." Can't ask for better than that.

Anyway, my turn to be alone tonight. Grab a good book, drink a bit too much wine, head to bed relaxed, and not worry about whether my snoring is keeping anyone else awake. Ha.
 
Thanks, Crecia, for reading and following the craziness that we've been through.

Amy and Willa's date was good for them both - Willa spent the night but came home before the kids could notice, like I do when I have spent the night. It was Willa's first time away to be with someone else - a new milestone in the "open marriage" world we live in. I felt fine, until she woke me up coming in the door, and then I really needed her to kiss me for a while, and then we fell asleep. A good transition into a new world, for us (Willa was once so VEHEMENTLY anti-poly. Spending the night with Amy, after all we've been through, is a big deal.)

Amy and I saw each other this weekend, too. Willa gave a big thumbs up (you need this...) and Amy and I connected, again.

I feel myself falling in love again, and Amy is saying things she hasn't said for months, as well. We are all starting to tell people we're close to, and finding serious safety in it. Doing that now, as the old relationship is lying in shambles, but while a new relationship is budding, seems like the right step. Given all the other things going on these days, it feels important to not go it alone, this time. Wary, fearful of trusting, and experiencing the intensity again... it's a powerful elixir.
 
Do I ever relate to that feeling of trepidation re-engaging into the triad again after a spectacular failure. Go slow and watch for the same signs/dynamics that where present before and maybe you guys can head anything off that comes up. It takes a certain kind of humility and openness to let go of the control I think. Sounds like there are some real positive signs.

Pulling for you guys to make it work!
 
decision time - again

As Ella has pointed out, this is getting ridiculous. Ups, downs, goods, and bads. After the good space Amy, Willa, and I inhabited existed just long enough to tempt us all, things blew up again. Last night, Amy said she couldn't balance the pain of not being closer to me with the magic of wanting to be near me. The pain is bigger than the magic, it's time to end it. For the, what, 15th time? Smirk.

A big part of that space comes from Amy's assumptions about Willa. And Willa has changed incredibly in the past year. What she can imagine now, like living in adjacent houses and really wanting that, is something she couldn't IMAGINE doing only 8 months ago. But Amy has stayed with the Willa of the beginning, in her head, and the constraints of "the slowest member of the group" were so bad that she was hopeless about ever seeing more of me. How can she find TIME when Willa doesn't want to give it, and I don't want to blow up my marriage by moving faster than Willa can manage?

This morning, Willa headed to Amy's. They talked. And Willa said a lot of things that Amy had to ... stop and think about. As the line went, there was nothing I could say that would change her mind, anymore - she was gone from me and had called it quits. But Willa?! She wasn't prepared for Willa talking, and offering something she might want. Might really want.

Big family, shared time, more of an intertwined unit. Rather than wanting to go away, Amy has wanted to come closer. And she hasn't been able to - so many reasons, some of which are my responsibility, most of which aren't. But with Willa saying "let's try this, I'm crazy scared, but let's try it," who knows what might happen.

I can't believe I've been writing the same post for months, now. Things were better. Now they are worse. They are over. Now they are better. Hey, they got worse again. I was pretty sure that this week's date with Amy would be the deciding moment - and it was. Amy left. And then Willa chased her down, and Amy might come back. God, what a rocky path this has been.

If it weren't so magical, if I didn't constantly fall right into the captivated space with Amy, I'd have ended this ages ago. But when we had our date, we both started crying - the attraction and understanding and laughter are there so easily, and we can't make the logistics work out. There's GOT to be a way, we have told ourselves. I don't think there is. Sometimes I wish she weren't so magical.
 
quiet update

Thought I'd post an update here, rather than elsewhere.

Willa and I continue to process what happened with Amy over the past year. There were so many entry points that we didn't take care of as they happened. Trying to blend with someone with her background, present, and health issues was a different difficulty. And each one of us has learned a lot about what went wrong and what responsibility we carry for how things ended up.

I do wish that Amy would have that same conversation with us. Instead, we get angry diatribes from her every 5 to 10 days, just explosions of frustration and hurt and anger, with incredibly disrespectful language and accusations that escalate as the emails cascade down on us. Responding makes it worse (we get more email). Not responding makes it worse (we absorb this hurt and can't do anything). We're each individually hurt, too, deeply hurt by what Amy did and how she did it, but at least we're not responding like this.

I'd love to talk to Amy, but she is hard and won't listen - she only yells at us, it seems, without listening to a response. There was a period, right at the end, when I spent half my time with her and half with Willa, over a two week period. Yeah, I was still trying to figure things out. It STILL wasn't enough for Amy, who pushed me away, saying that I was leaving her.

It's been hard to love someone and realize that she isn't actually ready to be loved. (Those are her words, not mine.) And it's hard to get all that anger and not be able to respond. So many bridges have been burned, and then she asks me to come closer over (metaphorically) the burning embers. I tried, and finally I stopped trying. A while back someone said "you're a persistent mofo," and I was, for a long while. Then it wasn't worth it.

But I miss the relationship we had, the friendship before we even started our triangle. I really do. It's just covered up in all sorts of shitty and more recent interactions. Who knows, a year or five from now her life might not be the crisis it has always been, and she might see me again. But she and I did a lot to each other this past year, and it wasn't good, sadly. No matter what changes, she's gone, and I'm not sure I want her back.

Anyway, while Willa and I have been talking, I've barely been on the forum. Too busy, too caught up in my own world. There's a lot to write about there (Willa wondering about her own non-monogamy and bisexuality) but it's unresolved. Maybe I'll start a new blog when we get that far...
 
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