The epiphany, now the application. Advice, please.

[swmnkdinthervr]

As groundwork, let us say our relationship is incredibly secure. We don't waste our time or energy on useless emotions like jealousy/insecurity. We are VERY deeply in love, incredibly happy together and have an awesome sex life. We have been delving into the "lifestyle," and this aspect of our relationship has only contributed to our already deep love, absolute respect and total trust in each other. However our "play" in no way defines us as a couple. We don't NEED it for sexual happiness. Nor is it more than a pursuit of pleasure to us.

Both of us are bisexual, with some limited experience.

While sharing some pillow talk the other evening, we somehow ended up on one of those questions that is normally immediately unanswerable because of being put on the spot. "What would you like to add to your life to complete your emotional/physical happiness" (money, etc. excluded)? She suddenly, with a misty gaze, softly said, "I want a girlfriend, not just a friend but a lover too." He asked, "Do you want someone to play with, or someone to love?" Her response was "Both!"

The depth of the emotion and quickness of the revelation stunned us both. But that quickly evolved into happiness at the recognition of the emotion and importance of the trust involved in sharing such a feeling/need. Though we've been on here for a little while, we had never discussed a poly arrangement fully. It appears we now need to.

We have a simple set of "rules of engagement" that we've set down that we feel work to start. We have decided that we will always be the primary members of the relationship. There really was never any question about that. Since we understood the dynamic would be shaped by the person(s) we eventually meet, we can't project what/how it will happen, nor can we know which of us will be closer or more connected to this person(s). While we would prefer that this person(s) be attracted and interested emotionally in both of us, we know that isn't always the case, and we have no discomfort about them being somewhat exclusive to either one of us.

Can you good folks offer any further advice?

 

[AnnabelMore]

I know this is pretty simplistic, but read everything at www.morethantwo.com before you get started, especially the stuff on poly configurations and jealousy management, as well as the basic tips and do's/don't's, and you will be better prepared for surprises that still come your way (and there will be surprises!). If you're committed to a primary/secondary structure, don't look for exclusivity from a new female partner (I wouldn't suggest doing so even if you weren't, but especially in this case).

It sounds like you guys have a strong base to work from and an understanding that flexibility is an asset when moving into new territory, so you're well equipped already. I would just suggest arming yourself with more info and perspectives, as per above.

Good luck!

 

[swmnkdinthervr]

Thanks so much, I've bookmarked that site and we will read/discuss it together! We have also come to the conclusion that whoever we meet can't really be limited by gender, no matter how much we want or focus on finding a girlfriend, we may find ourselves interested in a guy! Now all we have to do is figure out how/where to find that partner!

 

[redpepper]

Be careful what you say about jealousy. It can creep up. It isn't a useless emotion at all, it's a cluster of emotions that can tell us some very meaningful and deep messages and that is a blessing. It's our gut telling us that something is wrong and we have to figure out what. Usually it's as simple as fear, threat and a need of ours not being met. To ignore jealousy means that the issues aren't discussed and dealt with.

Pooh-poohing jealousy as if it were, in some way, for people that are unable to control their emotions is also dangerous. I have known perfectly happy and solid relationships that have destructed because its members thought it weak to be jealous, when in fact, they were ashamed and hid it to the point where they broke down and all hell broke loose. It was too bad, because if they hadn't been so full of pride, they would've gotten to the bottom of their issues much sooner and might not have broken up.

So, you are going from the "lifestyle" (by that I assume you mean swinging) to poly now. Would that mean you can still take it or leave it? Would it still be a lifestyle choice? It's hard to go back to being a mono couple after. Have you discussed that?

There are lots of great threads here to read if you look in the tag section. All the ones of any substance in one area were tagged. If you have read around you know that, but if you need any direction to anything specific, please ask. While Annabel's link is a good one, its only one perspective and one source, there is so much to learn from so many places, more so than ever. If you find anything good, I'd love to hear about it.

 

[swmnkdinthervr]

Thanks for your reply, redpepper! Will will look through the "tagged" area and do more reading. We realize that Annabel's link is only one of many sites and views vary from person to person. Unfortunately we're not too up on navigating these sites, hence the direct open question.

We don't take jealousy, insecurity, codependency or any other potential threat to a healthy relationship lightly. We have both discussed our exploration into the lifestyle at great length, and given a great deal of thought to the above issues. We will continue that approach in our efforts to connect with someone. We also recognize that pride/ego are the cause of many failures, not just interpersonal relationships!

Our foray into swinging wasn't/isn't approached lightly, it is/was a lifestyle choice. We also view polyamory as a lifestyle choice, nor would we just abandon either if things, as they often do, become difficult. We may decide to continue to "play" within the small circle of friends we have, none of which wish to indulge in a more committed relationship. Swinging, after all, is about sex, not love, even though deep friendships often are created. Obviously any continued swinging would be with the full knowledge of any/all partners. Just as it is now, they would also be welcome to join us. However, it's obvious the dynamic of that relationship remains to be determined until/if we find that partner.

Unless we misunderstand the definition of polyamory, there is a VERY wide range of sexual interests, relationship dynamics and interpersonal arrangements, both monogamous and non-monogamous. If we are unable to find an appropriate partner, or we establish a relationship that fails, we would be returning to what is already a very healthy relationship. As primary partners we intend to maintain that relationship with or without another partner.

We both feel this is the next evolutionary step in our relationship. Often you hear people expound on how "special" their relationship is, and just as often, you see those relationships fail for reasons that seem obvious to everyone but the victims! We do indeed have something incredibly special. The love, trust, security, of our relationship surpasses anything we have seen elsewhere in or out of the lifestyle. We are both mature in our reasoning and we communicate clearly and concisely with each other. Disagreements are few. In the nearly 5 years (3 married) we've been together we have never "argued," preferring instead to discuss our differing views and arrive at a middle ground comfortable to both. We share a depth of love and passion for each other and life in general that we would like to share with an appreciative partner. We honestly, if somewhat naively, believe no person can have too much love!

 

[redpepper]

Sounds like you are starting from a really good place. I wish you well. As long as you stay open to what happens, and the changes that come with that, you should be fine. Poly seems to move people away from each other, yet still includes more love than ever. Most change comes in becoming less co-dependent and more autonomous from one another. If you can do that and still be happy and healthy, still feel love is abundant and ever increasing, you should be fine.

My only other recommendation would be not to use the term "lifestyle" when referring to poly, as it can be a trigger for some poly people who are not on the spectrum end of polyamory where swingers lie. It could make or break a situation that could be successful in terms of a relationship. It's common to be in polyamory as a lifestyle, rather than an orientation (such as gay, for example), but poly people generally think of "lifestyle" as swinging, and therefore that they are not worthy of any investment because it's temporary. Does that make sense? Something to think about, anyway.

 

[swmnkdinthervr]

Thanks, again. We appreciate any advice! We were totally unaware that "lifestyle" would have that connotation! It seems odd though, because to us, and most of the swingers we know, that is a permanent choice-- "Once you're a pickle you can't go back to being a cucumber again!" It must be a sort of cultural thing...maybe even regional? The Baltimore Poly group we just joined embraces all gender distinctions, alternative lifestyle choices and forms of poly-fidelity. They in fact could be the aberration instead of the norm, we suppose!

There is a dawning realization of how we would become more autonomous as we are drawn in our individual attraction to our partner and we begin to shape a relationship with/around them. Wouldn't we, as primary partners, to some degree, be able to limit the depth of both interaction and commitment that we contribute, thereby limiting the initial or eventual separation (if that's even the word) between us as the primary couple?

We do see the potential for an even more loving than we now enjoy... if that's possible!

 

[AnnabelMore]

Wouldn't we, as primary partners, be able to limit the depth of both interaction and commitment that we contribute, thereby limiting the initial or eventual separation between us as the primary couple?

In theory, yes. But that means that if you do feel yourself falling deeply in love with a new partner, you will have to be very conscious about holding back and making boundaries that work for everyone. That is a very good thing to do in the beginning of a new relationship, as unrestrained involvement can lead to you getting swept away and doing foolish things. However, in the long term it may lead to sadness and frustration for both you and the outside partners, if the rule is that the newer relationships must always remain "secondary" so as to protect the "primary" relationship.

Many people do poly within that hierarchical model, so it certainly can be done. But I would encourage you to stay open to the idea that bringing in new partners and loving them sincerely can change your lives, and that you may need to, in time, and with rational thought and respect for the original relationship, release some control and let each relationship develop into what it wants to be, if that makes any sense.

It can seem like a scary thought, the idea that a new partner could some day become as important to you as your old partner, and that you might want to share your life with them as deeply, but to reject the possibility entirely is to leave yourselves with no choice but to back off or break up with new partners if it does come to that point. Love isn't predictable.

 

[redpepper]

Thanks. We were totally unaware that "lifestyle" would have that connotation. It seems odd though because to us and most of the swingers we know that is a permanent choice-- "Once you're a pickle you can't go back to being a cucumber again!" The Baltimore Poly group we just joined embraces all gender distinctions, alternative lifestyle choices and forms of poly fidelity. They could be the aberration instead of the norm, we suppose!

Most poly groups do. But a lot of poly people associate "lifestyle" with swinging. Some poly people would not want to be associated with swinging, so therefore might take issue with someone discussing poly as the "lifestyle." Doesn't mean swinging is frowned upon necessarily by all, just that it's confusing for some, and seen as inaccurate, as poly is about loving relationships, and swinging is about sport sex.

 

[swmnkdinthervr]

Thank you Annabel, we did/do indeed fear that loss/separation of or primary relationship, at least a little (okay, maybe a bit more than a little), but we don't fear someone loving us deeply as we do each other. It has occurred to us that love generally takes its own course rather than any anticipated one.

We think/feel we will want to limit at least the initial depth of commitment, mainly because it's wise to be somewhat cautious entering into any interpersonal relationship, whether the duration is fleeting or enduring. Again, maybe a little too much caution... but then this is new territory to us.

We've only lightly touched on being open to a love that becomes that all-encompassing. Your suggestion that we release some control, allowing the relationship to grow as it should is probably the best course, after we have reached a reasonable level of security. We can imagine nothing better than to share more of the incredible love that we already have. That potential is what brought us here.

What it appears you're saying is simply that we could be denying ourselves and someone else what we cherish the most about our relationship, and that makes a great deal of sense. We really don't want to limit ANY relationship with fear, no matter how seemingly rational it might be! You've helped clear up the initial misunderstanding (knee-jerk reaction) we had about Redpepper's description of the "moving away from each other" and the "becoming more autonomous from one another." What she was describing makes a great deal of sense now, and it signals growth as much as it might distance.

Whew... the learning curve is steep!!!

 

[redpepper]

What it appears you're saying is simply that we could be denying ourselves and someone else what we cherish the most about our relationship, and that makes a great deal of sense, as we really don't want to limit ANY relationship with fear, no matter how seemingly rational it might be!

You've helped clear up the initial misunderstanding (knee-jerk reaction) we had about Redpepper's description of the "moving away from each other" and the "becoming more autonomous from one another." What she was describing makes a great deal of sense now, and it signals growth as much as it might distance. Whew...the learning curve is steep!!!

The first part of the paragraph, is that to me? I wasn't sure. Are you talking about the words used in describing yourself? If so, then yes, it could divide you from someone that might be a suitable and interesting match. It's too bad, really, but it does happen.

People come to polyamory from different directions and often have huge learning curves to get to a place of acceptance and understanding. If you meet someone that is not from the background of swinging, or had bad experiences from it, they might take a huge step back out of fear of being on a different path from you. You might also do the same thing if they are seeming to judge just because of the use of your language and assumptions about where others are coming from.

It can take time to come together and realize that, regardless of where you come from, and what journey you have had, that you are finding each other on the same page. Sometimes you might find that you aren't on the same page at all, but really deep relationships can be built by using common language that people understand. Awareness is key, I think. This, speaking from having taken my own journey and watched other take theirs also.

Second part, is this to Annabel? Yes, it's hard to hear that exploring other partnerships might mean becoming less attached in the way you once knew into something more autonomous. I get a great deal of what I see as seething silence after I say a lot of things, and I figure that it's because its hard to hear. *shrug* I don't mean to sound negative; I just say it like I see it, and realize that I make few friends by doing so. I just hope that they take it with them and think about it, at some point.

The thing is, polyamory is VASTLY different from monogamy for some really good reasons. All of them are because it's different, not because it's going to mean hardship, pain, being alone and unloved. The opposite is true. It's hard to get to a place of poly love, and some people are not cut out for it, but once there are some understandings about how it works successfully, there is much love to be found from many people. That is essentially (in my opinion and experience) impossible to do while attached to one person, because it means that both people are distracted from truly loving others and allowing them to love you.

If you can allowing the letting go of the "togetherness" you share with one only; if you can reach a place where you have the deep love you describe and be okay with your partner's others in your life that they have deep love with; if you can be okay with loving more than one without feeling separate and a need to be attached to any one of them in a monogamous way; then you are there. That's my belief, anyway. Take it or leave it.

 

[IndieSolo]

We have also come to the conclusion that whoever we meet can't really be limited by gender. No matter how much we want or focus on finding a girlfriend, we may find ourselves interested in a guy! Now all we have to do is figure out how/where to find that partner!

"We, we, we." Watch that. You will set yourself up for heartache and drama if you only view your foray into polyamory as a "Couple +1" endeavor. This seems to be a very swingerish mindset, as swinging tends to be very M-F couple-centric. You are both two individuals in a relationship, not one unit. You each have your own wants, desires, needs, and feelings, and so will anyone you get involved with.

I think you will find things to flow much easier and smoother if you allow attractions and relationships to develop as they do, with one or the other of you, and remember to nurture each separately. Strive to be your partner's primary without making any new partners feel like an appendage or toy for the two of you. Cherish each person you are in relationship with as a unique individual. Do not think of anyone as meant to satisfy or augment "the couple," and you will be okay.

As for the use of the word "lifestyle" in referring to polyamory, it is important to remember that there is no one polyamorous lifestyle. Your own lifestyle can include polyamory, and so in that sense it is perfectly fine to use that word, as in "my poly lifestyle," "our poly lifestyle," etc. But just don't assume that there is "The Poly Lifestyle" that everyone adheres to in the same way. The reason why the word lifestyle seems to work very well in swinging is because there are generally universally agreed-upon rules and parameters that most swingers are aware of and accept. If swingers moved around from community to community, they would speak pretty much the same lingo, have the same understanding of the accepted rules, and be able to fit into most any swinging community on that shared understanding. So it is more correct to say "The Lifestyle" for them. While polyamory also has its own lingo, it is much more customizable, and there are a gazillion ways to live polyamorously. We talked a lot about the word in this thread: What is this "lifestyle" you mention?

 

[swmnkdinthervr]

Hi Redpepper...there is no question in our minds that poly is VASTLY different than any relationship we have previously considered!!!

"

What it appears you're saying is simply that we could be denying ourselves and someone else what we cherish the most about our relationship and that makes a great deal of sense, we really don't want to limit ANY relationship with fear no matter how seemingly rational it might be!

Was in response to Annabel's post but we suppose it could apply to what you both were saying!

Second part; is this to Annabel? Yes, its hard to hear that exploring other partnerships might mean becoming less attached in the way you once knew into something more autonomous. I get a great deal of what I see as seething silence after I say a lot of things and I figure that its because its hard to hear. *shrug* I don't mean to sound negative, I just say it like I see it and realize that I make little friends by doing so. I just hope that they take it with them and think about it at some point.

This actually was more in response to you...we had an initial "knee jerk" reaction to your honesty without thinking it through completely, Annabel's response helped us see what you were saying more clearly. We thank you for your straight forward approach!!!

Hi, NYCindie. Thank you for jumping in! Please understand one thing. We are stressing WE, meaning us as a couple, when we are posting here. The intent is to let everyone know that while one person obviously is typing/composing/responding, these responses we are BOTH participating in, contributing to this discussion. WE celebrate our individuality, and totally support each other's interests, whether we share the interest or not.

We "get" the idea of allowing things to flow naturally, or happen, rather than try to control them. But shouldn't any "primary," or the established couple, be a little cautious to just opening their arms (and trust) to anyone she/he/we are attracted to? Or did we miss your meaning? Our continued discussion has been centered around the almost limitless possibilities for the structure of a relationship with others and how that interaction might go. We're finding that it basically breaks down to being open to whatever grows out of the connection, no matter how much we talk about it.

For whatever reason, we've begun to get the feeling that many/some (?) here (or at least those responding here on the board, in our reading and in messages to us) are trying to make sure there is NO correlation between swinging and polyamory. Portraying swinging as something undertaken lightly and cast aside just as lightly as most perceive the partners are, our "friends" are all part of a small closed-loop circle. There are potentially as many ways to "live in the swinging lifestyle" as there are to live in poly relationships.

Many "lifestyle" relationships could clearly be defined, we're now realizing. as polyamorous. As we continue to visit more and more poly websites we find there is a visible and almost equal division between those accepting of present/former "lifestylers," and those opposed to that "stigma," for lack of a better word.

However, we respect everyone's sensitivities and will attempt to use the proper "lingo" on these individual sites.

We understand some of the social stigma, the conservative/vanilla world is fond of labeling any alternative lifestyle. Sadly, we are subjected to something similar because of our bisexual orientation. Even those in the "swinging lifestyle" are concerned about and sensitive to how the outside world views their actions/choices, and want to make sure they are viewed in what they consider a positive light. In a nutshell, "open minded" sometimes means "as long as you agree with how I/we see things."

 

[IndieSolo]

Hi,NYCindie... Thank you for jumping in! Please understand one thing. We are stressing WE, meaning us as a couple, when we are posting here, the intent is to let everyone know that while one person obviously is typing/composing/responding these responses we are BOTH participating in, contributing to this discussion. WE celebrate our individuality, and totally support each other's interests, whether we share the interest or not.

We "get" the idea of allowing things to flow naturally, or happen, rather than try to control them. But shouldn't any "primary" or the established couple be a little cautious to just opening their arms (and trust) to anyone she/he/we are attracted to...or did we miss your meaning?

Perhaps you did. Of course, yes, be cautious! There are a lot of nuts out there. I simply noticed that you were expressing yourself as a "we" in your posts, which definitely indicates a couple-centric approach, something that sometimes works in poly, but often does not. I did not realize I was "talking to" a couple in my post to this thread. On this board, most couples are registered individually. For more info on that: Two People, One Username

Basically, it seems that in polyamory, it is usually viewed as a more healthy approach if a couple acknowledge that they are each autonomous, with their own specific needs, even within their dyad. Poly relationships take time to nurture, and sometimes people put in a year or more before everyone gets comfortable. Most of the time, when a couple "opens up" their relationship to poly, additional relationships are usually more successful if pursued independently -- even if the ultimate desire is for involvement with everyone.

For whatever reason, we've begun to get the feeling that many/some (?) here (or at least those responding here on the board, in our reading and in messages to us) are trying to make sure there is NO correlation between swinging and polyamory. Portraying swinging as something undertaken lightly and cast aside just as lightly as most perceive the partners are, our "friends" are all part of a small closed loop circle. There are potentially as many ways to "live in the swinging lifestyle" as there are to live in poly relationships and many "lifestyle" relationships could clearly be defined, we're now realizing, as polyamorous. ...

There are plenty of polyfolk here who also swing, or have a lot of past experience swinging -- but they are two distinctly different things. While you may have sensed judgment, it isn't necessarily against swinging, but that there tends to be a very strong need among poly peeps to make sure people understand the difference. For example, I live in NYC, and if I talk to a "civilian," (basically a monogamous-oriented person) about polyamory, they assume it is swinging, or about "open marriage" -- having many casual sex partners, simply because swinging is the only form of open non-monogamy they have ever heard of. And polyamory is simply not the same as swinging or being open.

... the conservative/vanilla world is fond of labeling any alternative lifestyle.

Yeah, um, additionally, I don't consider non-poly people to be "vanilla," because I don't view poly as a kink (and I tend to dislike the term "vanilla"). Conservative or conventional, more likely. Anyway...

Polyfolk often have to work hard to erase the concept in most people's minds that poly is only about sex. And while most of us know that swingers can and often do have loving relationships with their swinging partners, let's face it - swinging is focused on sex as a group recreational activity. Many polyamorists are also poly-fidelitous, not interested in casual sex outside their poly tangle, and may include non-sexual partners among their polyamorous relationships.

For most polyamorists, sharing love, and nurturing committed, loving relationships are integral to having multiple partners. So, when someone comes here, sounding like they are embracing poly from a swinger perspective, our members tend to make sure they understand the overall general difference in approach and attitude -- even though many, many polyfolk also swing.

See also this thread: poly or swinging

Have you done much searching and reading of this forum? There are plenty of threads that have addressed some of your questions.

 

[swmnkdinthervr]

Well! There's something we never considered, NYCindie, having two profiles! It not only affords us individuality here, but increases the chances of someone being attracted to one personality or the other.

We also recognize the need for time for either of us to pursue and nurture a young relationship. But we suppose the need to approach each totally independently is governed by that individual relationship. We are not in a hurry. Just like monogamous dating, it's more likely we will find a partner by not avidly searching.

We will likely both use this profile until my wife Sandi is comfortable with responding directly. She dislikes expressing herself in writing, so at this point, we may not need a second profile. Whoever is writing/responding will sign their name, if that's acceptable.

We have been reading quite a lot, but we have only just scratched the surface and will want to read/discuss quite a bit more before we consider adding a partner.

While we agree swinging and poly relationships are two vastly different things, there are enough similarities/parallels that "lingo/jargon" crosses over a good bit, much like we're seeing on some of the other sites we mentioned! Liking, disliking, or even discriminatory use of labels or judgmental views, with the intent of putting on a particular look for anyone "outside looking in," would be as bad as the faux pas of using lifestyle or vanilla to describe what IS a choice of lifestyle! It's all semantics.

We don't participate in "group sex" or "indiscriminate sex," but we do have sex with friends, much like people do everywhere (except those folks are single or monogamous, not poly or swinging), but we all get lumped into the same group anyway. However that's the view many people in the outside world have of us, as do some in other alternative lifestyles "groups," not excluding this one. We also have some very deep platonic friendships from our time in the swinging world, so the close parallels are there, whether anyone likes it or not. Unfortunately that does make it VERY tough for outsiders to separate the two.

Apparently we're not well-enough indoctrinated yet, because how the outside world views us doesn't affect our choices or how we view others. We honestly believe that all "alternative lifestyles" would benefit from the similarities/parallels, increased numbers and support of others that have faced the same form of discrimination. The LGBT, swingers, etc., are all linked to some degree, and becoming more so. Solidarity does work!

It's very possible that we're not a good fit here. We just don't see the need to "defend" ourselves or our choices to the outside world, but it appears there may be the need to do so in this forum. We don't wish to offend anyone in any way, so we will consider removing our profile and participating elsewhere. If we do hang around, we will remain silent for the most part and just read. We seriously have appreciated all of the information and advice!

John... with Sandi contributing from the chair next to me!

 

[IndieSolo]

It's very possible that WE're not a good fit here. WE don't see the need to "defend" ourselves or our choices to the outside world, but it appears there may be the need to do so in this forum. WE don't wish to offend anyone in any way, so WE will consider removing our profile and participate elsewhere. If WE do hang around, WE will remain silent for the most part and just read. WE seriously have appreciated all of the information and advice.

John...with Sandi contributing from the chair next to me!

Oh, no no no, there is no need to leave or defend yourselves. You are both very welcome here! Most of us get into lengthy conversations and even argue our points, but no one is saying you don't fit in. Sometimes we have to ask a lot of questions just to gain more of an idea of where people are coming from on any given topic. That doesn't mean there is judgment or narrow-mindedness (though sometimes that can happen - we have many members from all over). Like I said earlier, there are plenty of people here who swing, you just haven't heard from many of them yet, probably due to the holidays.

Don't go, we're just getting to know you.

 

[redpepper]

Hey NYCindie, I love your post #14 just for the record... its a culmination of many great conversations and years of determining a great deal of "stuff." Thanks for it. I really enjoyed it (as I do a lot of your posts, and don't say so, just for the record. ).

Also, I am grateful that we all work together on this forum by filling in the blanks where someone else has missed, or explaining in different ways so that people can read things in a different way. I'm pleased that was noticed swm (swmnkdinthervr). Thanks Annabel, for adding and saying what I was saying differently.

swm, most of us here came from a long line of trying lots of stuff out, including swinging. Just as NYCindie said, you are welcome here, as is everyone, but please don't think that we are not going to question you, or are only speaking to you. This is a public forum. It's a place for discussion, to learn from each other, and to sometimes be pushed into seeing things a different way. It's all in the spirit of "togetherness," not judgment or scolding. If we didn't want you here, we would simply stop talking to you. So far, the conversation has been enjoyable and interesting for me. If you are not finding it so, then by all means don't write anymore. I would hate to think that what we are saying is causing you grief.

For most of us that have been polyamorous for a long time, it is really important to make sure we know that people who come here know that there are differences between the forms of ethical non-monogamy. We also enjoy talking about those differences as a way to understand one another and to explore our own lives. Those of us who have been here awhile have done much exploration and had a lot of discussion about polyamory.

We have come to understand that polyamory is different for everyone, but follows some general trends. Swinging doesn't follow those same trends, but is just as valid and enjoyable for people. As NYCindie said, some poly people swing. I will add to that-- some poly people are kinksters, go to cuddle parties, have casual sex, have friends with benefits, or intimate friends, or just about anything else involved with sex-positive culture. There are also poly people who cheat and have affairs, and some who are sex-negative.

Really, it all is woven together, but we stick to polyamory here as much as we can.... as described by the person talking about it. It seems we are all getting a better understanding of what polyamory means to you. In fact, it seems that a lot of what you have participated in could be considered poly if you would like to consider it as such. Have you come to this realization? Usually swinging comes with a set of "don't fall in love or get attached" rules. Did you think what you were doing was different from that? Have you realized that maybe you are poly in orientation? or could you really go back to monogamy and be fine with it? Go back to non-emotional sex and be fine with that? It sounds to me like you are in this for life now, by the accounts of what you have been doing already. It doesn't sound like a polyamorous lifestyle would fit you. What do you think?

Yeah, sharing an account is discouraged generally. If it's just you, John, writing, then perhaps if Sandi starts writing, she could start her own account. It promotes clearer communication, and clarification on the readers' end. Thanks.

 

[swmnkdinthervr]

Hi RP, NYCindie, Annabel,

We've been doing more reading than posting, as is obvious. I (John) suppose our defensive reaction was probably a little premature, but we also received a message off the boards that was a little more "insistent" in the explanation of the difference between poly and swinging, so we just lumped everyone together in the same pot. That was a good lesson!

RP, we do see some similarities to polyamory in our closed-loop scenario, especially with what have become deep long-term friendships, but that is where the similarities seem to end. Nobody in our group is willing to open up to anything deeper than what is now shared, and we respect them all for that. As a group, our "rules" have evolved to this point over time. I doubt any would have tried to see the connection, but we do.

As you point out, we may already be past the point of no return, as far as what we're looking for in an emotional relationship. Polyamory feels right to us. However, we would most likely still be open to joining our friends for fun if all partners agreed to allow the relationship to be that open. Oddly enough, that would still be a closed-loop group, even with another partner! The confusion in labeling apparently could either be very humorous to some or very troubling to others!

We certainly don't question the experience of most of you here. We are as new as babies to this whole concept. BUT we're not without good judgement skills (well, most of the time), and we will not always agree with everyone, no matter how long they have been doing something! We are still a little uncomfortable with what we view is merely semantics, but "when in Rome..."

You all need to know we very much appreciate your taking the time to offer your honest insight!

 

[redpepper]

We will not always agree with everyone, no matter how long they have been doing something. We are still a little uncomfortable with what we view as merely semantics.

Oh geez, I sure hope not. It gets very boring, otherwise. Most of us have been greatly challenged here and for that reason stay. Maybe you will consider doing the same.

 

[swmnkdinthervr]

Oh geez, I sure hope not. It gets very boring otherwise. Most of us have been greatly challenged here and for that reason stay. Maybe you will consider doing the same.

"But when in Rome..." We tried to impart that we have decided to hang around for a bit, but it appears it will require the acquisition of a thesaurus and at least one term of Composition 101 and Intramural Debating, too!