The Poly Adventure is Just Beginning

[tronprogram]

I dunno. I don't go searching for other partners because I am bored. I search for other partners because either I am horny or I unexpectedly hit it off with someone. Doesn't matter how many partners I have, though I don't think I could handle a third primary partner due to time constraints.

This probably shows my ignorance, but I didn't know you could have more than one primary. lol

Thanks for your answers!

 

[Bluebird]

Sure, it's called non-hierarchical poly.

 

[IndieSolo]

Tron, it seems like you are impatient and want to convince your wife NOW that poly is okay, and that she should try it. That is unfair. Your goal shouldn't be to convince her of anything. You should just want to talk about it without an agenda.

Some couples spend a year or two, or even longer, discussing and learning about poly before making any decisions. Talking about it will come and go in waves - don't steamroll her. Be patient, and work on strengthening your marriage. Be a good partner - what steps are you taking to rebuild trust and make amends to her for betraying her trust in you? That is where your focus should be.

 

[YouAreHere]

Be a good partner - what steps are you taking to rebuild trust and make amends to her for betraying her trust in you? That is where your focus should be.

THIS.

Pushing her to get close to the other person won't do you (or her, or the other person) any favors right now. For me, the more pushy someone is for me to be friends with them (or with someone else), the more I dig my heels in. I choose my friends. Nobody chooses them for me. Having an opportunity to get to know them is one thing... feeling that it's being orchestrated toward a desired outcome just leaves me feeling manipulated and pissy.

(Well, *I'm* a crankenpuss today! Sheesh!)

Oh... and tronprogram, you may want to go back and check your posts to make sure you're being consistent with names. I'm wondering if maybe you dropped a real name or two when you probably meant to be anonymous.

 

[tronprogram]

Today, I've decided to really just trust Mabel with this situation. I've told her that I'm just wired to want to do things that will hurt her because of the way she's wired. However, I think the way forward is for each of us to handle this with love and grace. Last night, Mabel and I tried discussing sex some because I wanted to try to rekindle an effort to find solutions for my urges within our marriage. After a bit, it was just obvious we were in different places. Mabel just had no thoughts on the matter and said that I just think about it more than she does.

Nevertheless, I'm still trusting her with my struggles. I will be uncomfortable, restless, and upset from it, but I'm letting her handle it. It was wrong of me to take that control from her.

It's still tough not to engage with Penny. One of the things we'd talked about just as friends was Half Price Books. I had been looking for the vinyl LP of the FIRST BLOOD score and she was on the lookout for it for me. Today, I found it on my own at a flea market and wanted SO BADLY to just email a pic of it to her. But I couldn't. Everything about that seems unnatural. I know I don't deserve to talk to her after how I treated Mabel, but I just wish it was all different.

 

[kdt26417]

Sorry to hear things are difficult for you right now.

 

[tronprogram]

Sorry to hear things are difficult for you right now.

Thanks.

I've come up with an analogy to help me better explain how I view the situation.

Essentially, I feel lost in a maze. Like a Maze of Non-Monogamy. It's like this sexy attraction that some adults want to attempt just because they can. I thought this was Mabel's thinking about it, only to find out she planned on ditching me in there so I could find someone else and we could end our marriage. Once we got in there and I got lost looking for her, she had second thoughts about being in there and left, even though I couldn't find my way out. Not only was I lost, but I started learning things about myself that made a lot of sense about my life and marriage in general. After a while, I wanted to actually explore the place for myself. As if that weren't interesting enough, I also met someone else who was kind of going through a lot of the same self-discovery and became a fast friend (Penny).

Even though I'm lost in this maze, I can still communicate with Mabel as well as I ever did and maybe better because I've met Penny now and it's putting things into perspective. Penny and I have started helping each other through the maze now. However, since Mabel's on the outside of the wall and can't see what's actually happening (let alone in my heart), she starts getting unnerved and demands I stop working through the maze with Penny and being friends with her.

I'm like, "Are you crazy?? Do you want me to stay lost and lose my mind or, worse, die in here?" But Mabel doesn't really understand this because she doesn't seem to acknowledge that I'm lost in this enlightening experience. She just thinks that I should want to leave just because she's changed her mind about everything and we should forget the consequences of her actions. When I don't really go for that and keep traveling with Penny, she throws a big fit, threatening divorce a second time and outs me to my mother. So I just cut off all ties with Penny and go it alone. Without Penny, I'm not sure what will happen to me in the maze, if I'll ever find my way or if I'll come out in one piece when I get out. While some people survive alone in the Maze of Non-Monogamy, not many actually do.

I sort of feel like at this point, beggars shouldn't be choosers. Mabel meant to ditch me in that place and leave me and totally move on. Once I both got lost in the maze and lost in self-discovery, I feel she should've been content just to get me back at all. I mean, here's a woman who, through her carelessness, very well could've destroyed our marriage with these games of hers. However, due to my grace and forgiveness, I was determined to save it and work on it. It seems like at this point, I'd get to name my terms for how we'd proceed, but I didn't. Instead, I'm having to acquiesce to her terms because she says she won't live with the changes that she's responsible for causing with me by dragging me into this open relationship stuff.

Am I wrong for viewing the situation this way?

 

[kdt26417]

Saying you're wrong would be strongly wording it. You feel what you feel, and I take your point about this open relationship thing not being your idea originally.

How sure are you that Mabel wanted to use the open arrangement to end the marriage? Has she admitted that? Also, how set is your heart on getting back together with Penny? Is it worth divorcing Mabel?

How long are you willing to be monogamous in order to stay together with Mabel? a year? ten years? 25 years? Sorry, but I don't know of any words that would convince Mabel to let you be poly. I'm afraid you're stuck with the situation as it is for the moment.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.

 

[tronprogram]

Saying you're wrong would be strongly wording it. You feel what you feel, and I take your point about this open relationship thing not being your idea originally.

It was always just a fantasy that I never thought I'd have any kind of real-life encounter with. Then I was in the middle of it all of a sudden and it really takes a hold on me. When I try to do some research and find out what's wrong with me and why I'm so taken by it, I find out that it's probably something right with me. Geez...

How sure are you that Mabel wanted to use the open arrangement to end the marriage? Has she admitted that? Also, how set is your heart on getting back together with Penny? Is it worth divorcing Mabel?

Mabel has admitted this, yes. I knew she was upset with me when she proposed the open relationship, but I just thought that she wanted us to go try to find our personal brands of fun with other people but stay married. It was only after I was getting into it and talking to Penny that she started to rethink it.

My heart is as set on getting back with Penny as it is staying with Mabel. If I could just have both of them, I'd be a pretty happy dude, I b'lieve. It's not worth losing Mabel over this because I don't even know if Penny would want to get with me if I wasn't married or if I'd left Mabel. She might not feel comfortable dating a single me. Likewise, I'm not sure I'd want to date her while she was still married. Sure, I could look for other girls, but I don't know that I'd find another Penny.

How long are you willing to be monogamous in order to stay together with Mabel? a year? ten years? 25 years? Sorry, but I don't know of any words that would convince Mabel to let you be poly. I'm afraid you're stuck with the situation as it is for the moment.

That's a good question. I don't know what my tolerance will be. When I was ignorant and considered this lifestyle a fantasy, not something that might be good for me, it was easy just to write it off and not let it bug me. Now that it feels like I'm not living my life the way it's supposed to be lived, I'm not sure how much I'll be able to endure.

 

[kdt26417]

Well, I hope you can find a balance that's right for you. You do have to be gracious to yourself, you know.

 

[Norwegianpoly]

I still need to understand polyamory better, though...
What I want to know is this:

1) How well do mutually-married or mutually-single pacts work with secondary relationships that may be sexier than the primary?
2) How long does it take for that poly-euphoria/superpower to wear off or does it last indefinitely?
3) How common is it to start out feeling like two relationships are enough (a primary and one secondary), only to get bored after a while and want more partners?

To help with the last question, when I felt that euphoric feeling from the 'symbiosis', it seemed like Mabel and Penny were all I needed to feel adequately engaged by relationships. Can I expect that to last or will I eventually get bored and want more partners, like I'm trying to satisfy an addiction?

1) all newer relationships are sort of sexier than the older ones because of the NRE. But it evens itself out. I used to be amazed to do everyone little thing for my boyfriend. I still love him dearly, but I don't enjoy handwashing his clothes just because they are his! On the other hand, after two years I appreciate other things about him, like his ways with money, his big empathy with other people and him treating sex like a very obvious part of the everyday life. And I don't find my husband always interesting but I have a basic respect for him, I am proud of him and after eleven years together we have a very solid sexlife.
2)NRE lasts about one to two years usually. I once had it for four yearswith an ex, but that was an on and off relationship.
3) I think people are different, some seem to be able to juggle a lot of relationships. For me, two primary relationships are very much enough. I didn't fall for my boyfriend or the ex because I was bored with my husband, either. It was more like I discovered I had the capasity to love more.

 

[tronprogram]

Is it wrong of me to feel a little played here? Granted, I haven't handled things with the best grace on my end, but I wasn't looking to start any of this on my own originally. Before this, I was doing my best to be 'a serious man' (as the Coens put it) by keeping my head down and just not letting myself get too involved with other women that might become a stumbling block for my marriage.

Mabel was the one who decided to open our relationship and she was the one who decided to close it. At no point were my ideas or feelings really considered. Not even on a trial basis. It didn't seem to matter that I'd happened upon a new life direction for myself and that I'd met someone I wanted to know better. Once Mabel decided the arrangement was too risky, it wasn't open for discussion because she'd made up her mind. Mabel giveth and Mabel taketh away, essentially. She acknowledged that I had a different view, but steamrolled over it because she thought this was all a bad idea.

My reaction to that probably wasn't the greatest, though. I kept talking to Penny because I didn't think it was right that my wishes had been brushed off. I wanted to retain a little control from Mabel and didn't really consider whether it actually was mine to take.

I plain just didn't know what to do with this period. The textbook answer seemed to be that I should've just let Mabel have her bad idea and gone back to being 'a serious man'. But I was too invested in this new life direction to give it up. I felt I owed it to myself to stand up for that. Kissing Penny was definitely not the right way to do it. However, I don't know how to rate the offensiveness of just talking to her. At the time, I felt if I'd asked Mabel for her permission to talk to her, she would've rejected it because it was still part of a bad idea, thus discounting my opinion furthermore and my effort to stand up for myself would've been thwarted.

Originally, Mabel had wanted this open relationship to end our marriage because she was tired of me being such a lackluster husband. She never just came right out and said she wanted a divorce and never really made a plea (let alone a strong one) for counseling or even hinted that she was that close to being done. She went straight for this open relationship. It doesn't seem like she should get to do something that careless and get to pick her own consequences. I love her and normally would let her do it anyway, but this slip up really changed things for me. I don't really feel bad for holding her feet to the fire. I guess I'm just not sure how to do it properly. One way NOT to do it is to kiss another girl without her approval.

 

[PinkPig]

Is it wrong of me to feel a little played here?

No, it's not wrong that you feel played. It's just an emotion and emotions are neither 'wrong' or 'right' or 'good' or 'bad'. They're just emotions. It's also makes sense that you would feel manipulated because you were manipulated. That said, you're treating this like Mabel is in control of you. She's not. She only has as much control over you as you allow her to have. That's the key. You're ceding control of your choices and then blaming her because you don't like the outcome. It's victim mentality. If you don't want to be a victim, if you don't want her to control your life, then don't allow her to do so.

You have choices.

Choose the status quo/what you're doing now: Stay with Mabel, within the boundaries she's redefined (monogamy), or keep trying to push her to accept something she doesn't want. Stay stuck in the victim mentality, build more resentment on both ends (hers & yours), and be unhappy.

Choose to really focus on your marriage: Attend marriage counseling. Go to counseling by yourself. Change your actions, stop being a lackluster husband, be a good, loving, helpful husband. Be the change that you want to see. Then, reassess your options after you've given your marriage a real shot. When you've done that, there's a chance that she'll be more open to exploring options other than monogamy (or not), and there's a chance that you'll be more content to stay monogamous (or not.)

Choose to exit the marriage and pursue a lifestyle that feels more authentic to you.

I'm sure there are other options. But the key is that you have to actively choose instead of passively accepting something you don't want...and then blaming Mabel because you don't want what you're choosing. Because whether you realize it or not, by not doing anything, you're still choosing something, you're just choosing what you say you don't want (which isn't very loving to you or Mabel.)

Last thing, IMO, just because we love someone does not mean we can or should be in relationship with them. Sometimes, it's just more loving to accept that we're incompatible for whatever reason and to disband the romantic relationship.

 

[tronprogram]

I've re-read that post several times now, Pink. Thank you.

One thing I forgot to add is that I do have an appointment with a poly-friendly therapist next Tuesday. It's a relief to be moving forward with that, finally.

 

[Confused]

The textbook answer would not have been to suck it up, but to behave ethically while continuing to state your needs and desires.
If at that point your wife was unwilling to negotiate (there are a hundred permutations of agreements you may be able to suggest together before finding something you are mutually enthusiastic about may I add) then you need to choose whether to stay and keep working on meeting her needs for a little while so you can heal from both of your choices before bringing your interests back to the table again (not lying to her and pretending to be happy but say agreeing to have 6 months just the two of you talking and working things out before talking about particulars of others) or to work on kindly ending things so you can ethically and honestly pursue the life you want.

Dishonesty and sneaking around is never going to inspire trust. It's not your wife's job to trust what you say, it's your job to prove that you are trustworthy in what you do.

 

[tronprogram]

It's been three weeks since I talked to Penny. There have been a few times when I'd write her emails without sending them or download Kik again to see if she'd texted me out of desperation, but I still have yet to text or utter a word to her since three weeks ago.

In that time, things with Mabel haven't really improved. I'm just sitting here, listless. We've tried talking about things a little bit, but Mabel refuses to acknowledge that I'm experiencing any trouble that we need to address or discuss. No matter how many times I try to tell her this isn't a new problem that's been brought on by the open relationship, she thinks it's just an obsession that I won't give up. She expects us just to go back to normal, go back to church, and act like this never happened. Whenever I try to share how I feel and discuss new possibilities for us even within the marriage, I get shut down.

I've also brought up the idea of separating because I'm just not sure how we can make this work if we can't talk about things and I can't go back to normal (mono). It seems insane because there's not that much wrong with us other than this. It would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Of all the things that are right, this one, tiny issues is the chink in the armor that's going to bring us down.

I've been trying more aggressively to get in with the therapist, but he keeps rescheduling me. Now I'm strongly considering mounting another search for a poly-friendly therapist that will see me a lot sooner.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi tronprogram,

Sorry to hear things aren't improving with Mabel. And, I'm sure you are missing Penny, that's only natural. What will you do?

Re:

"Of all the things that are right, this one, tiny issue is the chink in the armor that's going to bring us down."

You say it's just one little thing ... Are you sure it's little? Maybe it's one big gigantic thing ...

Re:

"I've been trying more aggressively to get in with the therapist, but he keeps rescheduling me. Now I'm strongly considering mounting another search for a poly-friendly therapist that will see me a lot sooner."

You should do that. Your therapist shouldn't be putting you off like that.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[tronprogram]

You say it's just one little thing ... Are you sure it's little? Maybe it's one big gigantic thing ...

Thanks Kevin. I don't think it's a gigantic thing because if I was mono, we'd be great. Likewise, if Mabel let me see Penny, I think that would work too. We'd still have great sex, get along great, there'd be peace, and we'd have a great life together.

I just don't know what it could be other than that. It's just that Mabel seems to be wired for exclusive mono and I'm not. The fact that she's not really talking about this makes me a little suspicious, but I mean...she'd rather stay quiet than talk this out and help me get to a better spot.

 

[kdt26417]

Re:

"It's just that Mabel seems to be wired for exclusive mono and I'm not."

How will you work around that disparity?

 

[tronprogram]

Re:


How will you work around that disparity?

I don't know that there is a work-around.