The Principle of Least Interest

L

LadyLigeia

New member
I realize that this isn't poly-specific, but this forum has given me many valuable insights and I was wondering if you could help me with this. I was always aware that some "game" was being played by everyone and have been slightly aware of it, but upon learning about The Principle of Least Interest, I now understand why.

I am a Relationship Anarchist. One of the primary principles of Relationship Anarchy is freeing your relationships from hierarchical and power imbalances. I've spoken before about how I get fearful when I like someone because the moment I feel comfortable expressing just a bit of interest and start feeling comfortable with feeling some remote infatuation, the situation goes awry. I've been told that I don't act overly interest and, if anything, I seem more indifferent, much like many people in my generation. Even if everything seems to be going well and our interest seems equal, the minute I become comfortable about "opening up" and letting my guard down, they magically aren't interested in me. I would really like it if one of my guy crushes requited my interest. Well, one of them who wasn't my "primary" partner whom I love very much.

I am one of the most sociable people I know and quirkiness (albeit charming eccentricity, or so I'm told) aside, I am very good at reading people, assessing social situations and responding in an appropriate manner. I'm currently a little on the heavier side, but I'm tall, well-proportioned, and am often told by many that I'm attractive. Although I'm admittedly sensitive, my confidence is above average. Judging by the plurality of people interested in me and all of the virtues of external validation, I can safely say that a lot of others find me attractive. Beneath my affable exterior lurks something else... I am afraid to approach guys (specifically men) and if I do, I have to completely ignore that I like them in the first place or else it all goes to shit. Projected, illusory exaggerated interest as a downfall to approaching men as a woman is the one that really bugs me out, honestly.

Here's the thing:
There have been many times where I've requited the pursuit of someone who was more openly and aggressively pursuing me, only to have them (plurality of guys) lose interest in me when what I did was nowhere near as flagrant as what they did. It's gotten to the point where I'm actually afraid to have crushes - well, at least ones that I acknowledge to myself or others because even if my behavior doesn't change, they're magically not into me.

Why do some people (namely, the men I like because women don't do this) do that? Why do these guys eagerly pursue me but when I start doing it back in a non-abrasive way that is not nearly as forward as their actions, they get turned off, even though they were more obviously and aggressively pursuing than I was. I've honestly asked friends if I give off the vibes of being too "into" someone and they're usually like, "Actually, you don't show more interest in them than they do to you, so no, you don't come off as weird." Does a girl showing interest in a guy reflect a lack of opportunities? Let me tell ya flat-out that THAT is a far cry from my reality, thankfully. I've been thinking about it a lot lately. It makes me feel paranoid, especially since I run at the slightest sign of "not interested." I find sexual rejection to be crushing, although I realize that it doesn't mean that I'm not a good person. It still devastates me and there's no way I can get any more paranoid than I already am when I assess whether to go for it or not. It really upsets me because I feel like I can't have crushes or form healthful sexual/romantic attachments because no matter how vigilant I am in ascertaining whether someone likes me or judging by the valorous efforts of their pursuits (which they initiate and perpetuate), I can never be too sure or feel safe about it. It really upsets me and dulls my shine.

I like nerdy guys or smart guys, often with glasses. They've done it more than anything but it's not just confined to the nerd populous. I can't stand to be more paranoid about falling in lust than I already am. Like I said, I have good social judgement and I've been told that I don't act in inappropriate ways that would signify anything that is inherently unappealing. I'm the least clingy person I know.

Insights as to why this happens and how I could avoid it are greatly appreciated. I just don't think it's possible for me to be more "careful" than I am now and it's ruining my ability to have crushes and such. My friends have even seen it happen - a guy (one whom my friend hooked me up with) was aggressively pursuing me but then on the second "date" when we all hung out, he started acting aloof and shit. There was really no warning sign of it, either, and he's the one whom arranged for us to hang out. I understand the difference between flirting with intent and casual flirtation. It's not like I ever want anything "serious" or disproportionate to what they appear to want. As soon as I let my guard down and trust that he likes me, then their interest fades. I'm not the kind of person whom wants people I can't have, either, so I don't want someone less when I have them.

The other problem with this is that I want emotional intimacy. I've noticed that many people - ESPECIALLY monogamous people - tend to polarize the desire to deeply connect with someone and infatuation immediately as something "serious." I feel like I have to numb my emotions if I want any kind of fulfillment in that arena. Like I said, I'm careful to never express interest that is more intense than the interest being expressed to me, but it's gotten to the point where I'm actually afraid of liking people.

I've noticed that in dating, people want what they can't have. I'm not like that; if I want someone, it's because I genuinely want them, not just because I can't have them. I feel as though I have to play this "scarcity" game to be successful in relationships. I really would like to just be able to open up and have my desire for a meaningful connection reciprocated. I don't want to play this game anymore, but I feel too insecure to not do it.

Insights? Advice? Sorry for this drivel. I hope it makes sense. Also, I understand that I am the common denominator in all of these scenarios, but I'm just not sure how much more I can go with the flow than I already do and not have my hopes dash. My perceptions are realistic, but I think that The Principle of Least Interest might have something to do with how others treat me which, in turn, shapes how I treat other people.

<3
 
Despite what your friends are saying, it can't always be them. But hey, both you and your friends noted that you can be somewhat aloof towards love interests. Maybe it's this that puts them off.

I can empathise with you to some degree because the way I interact with people isn't always what the people I want in my life can cope with. If I want them to stick around, I have to meet the needs they have of their friends, family, partner or whatever.

But yeah, I'm sure you're not committing some general faux pas that would make everyone react the way these guys do, but perhaps your behaviour is off putting to the type of guy you're into. You need to think carefully about whether and how much you're willing to compromise yourself in order to be more attractive to them. I don't do it very much.
 
Just a note to say the principle of "the one who invests/cares the least has the power in the relationship" is unfortunately true. They are losing out on the rewards that come with being in love though :)
 
Seems to me your "aloofness" is actually hurting a connection from going further. See you aren't aggressive, so you're now a "conquest" for these males but as soon as you become "interested" the chase/conquest is over. Just a thought that hit me as I read your post.
 
alibabe_muse said:
Seems to me your "aloofness" is actually hurting a connection from going further. See you aren't aggressive, so you're now a "conquest" for these males but as soon as you become "interested" the chase/conquest is over. Just a thought that hit me as I read your post.
Click to expand...

!!!!!!!

This is one of the reasons why I love this forum so much: I can actually come here with questions and get answers that I didn't hear or consider before. I wouldn't say I'm "aloof" because I'm extremely outgoing and sociable. I'm very friendly and engaging. However, I just don't feel free to express my interest freely enough, even if it's a non-serious crush, to these people.

What should I do? I'm normally an engaging person, just as I am to the people who I am attracted to, but with this principle in motion, expressing interest seems to immediately diminish my "value" in their eyes, even if I don't speak or express it in any way. How can I deal with this? I'm still afraid of being lead on, especially when I'm so vigilant to ward off any projection or delusional thinking on my part. I don't become consumed by the crush, but I don't get real crushes (read: sexual and emotional attraction) on people, so my predicament gets really troubling.

Honestly, my friends are bohemian/artsy, but not awkward. Honestly, I'm one of the most popular people I know. The only thing that I think would make a nerdy guy wary of me would be the fact that I party... Well, I partied harder in college and by the time I graduated with my BA, I also earned my PhD in partying. ;) With that said, I'm also very intellectual and adore intelligence. I'm sapiosexual so these yearnings mean a lot.


I've noticed that I flirt very well with old(er) men - flagrantly, even - but not with men my age. I was always mystified as to what older men provoked in me that younger guys didn't despite being attracted to both. (I must admit that I have a weak spot for older men and tend to be attracted to them more, probably because of their intelligence and attentiveness.) I am pretty damn sure that it's because they don't abide by this principle.

Women, however, have always generally liked me.

Thanks! I'm still open to more suggestions and insights if anyone has them, as I don't know how to apply this knowledge or go forth with this.
 
LadyLigeia said:
What should I do? I'm normally an engaging person, just as I am to the people who I am attracted to, but with this principle in motion, expressing interest seems to immediately diminish my "value" in their eyes, even if I don't speak or express it in any way. How can I deal with this?
Click to expand...

This seems like an interesting philosophical diversion to discuss over a beer... but is this sort of concept really something you want to base your moment by moment interaction on?

While there are power dynamics at play in any relationship between two people if you look close enough and have a mind to take a reductionist approach, I'm skeptical that doing so is actually improving the value gained from relating. That should be the point of dissecting possible relationship dynamics right? To flesh out our world view and increase our potential joy of life?

I ask this last bit because it seems that you are making yourself a little nuts with this concept. Instead of relating to people the way you naturally relate you are trying to turn it into a game in which you offer the exact right amount of interest as to not scare off the delicate bunny rabbits who you are interested in. I can tell you that if all it takes is displaying a bit of interest to scare someone off... that wasn't going anywhere... I promise. It is profoundly unlikely that showing interest is the one thing that is keeping you from finding the kind of interaction you want.

So I propose that you enjoy your philosophical waxing but only use it if it is USEFUL and leave the rest laying on the couch.
 
I imagine this has much to do with your age. (Mid 20's?). I am trying to figure out how to explain a concept that seems to come..., well, with age. I am 50. I like myself, but more importantly, I am comfortable with who I am. When I speak to someone, I really have little regard for how they perceive me - or maybe I should say, for making them perceive me a certain way. I really do not care.

I am also sapio-sexual. As such that makes our dating pool somewhat small. I never start talking with someone with the idea that we might be sexually / romantically compatible. In fact, I pretty much assume that we won't be. I still enjoy getting to know people. Sometimes once I do, I find that spark is there. But I only really know that by getting to know them with no regard to anything else.

Maybe you just need to be yourself and take some time to develop a genuine friendship without all the second guessing?
 
Im not sure but I like being the pursuer. Something about being pursued turns me off. Some men seem really aggressive about it and that scares me because I don't like aggressive men. But on the opposite side some men come across as wimpy and I don't like that either. I think I need a balance of sweet and cocky. When I got with Nate he always played it like he was begrudgingly going along but that was fine because I knew he was just playing.
 
Marcus said:
Instead of relating to people the way you naturally relate you are trying to turn it into a game in which you offer the exact right amount of interest
Click to expand...

I think Marcus is right here, and BookBug and London as well, in suggesting that you let yourself be who you are/want to be. I can easily imagine that all the worry and analysis is interfering with establishing a genuine connection.

If, as you say, you have reasonable social skills and the ability to avoid (or stop) behaviors that are making people uncomfortable, why not just act as you'd like to act, and let people react to the real you?

That last might seem like a mixed message. To clarify, you might stop a behavior if it was causing a problem, but not simply because it was not prompting a reaction of interest (which to me is not the same thing).

I also wonder whether your perception of lack of interest is always correct. You sound so afraid of being rejected! Is it possible that sometimes people are not actually losing interest, but simply not moving as quickly or providing as much reassurance as you're looking for, and so you back away before you need to?

Of course, it is also possible that you have encountered people who simply enjoy chasing. And probably some people simply enjoy flirting, but don't actually want to progress to anything beyond that.

Maybe it would be useful to think more about your fear of being rejected/led on, and try to lessen that? To me it seems a bit inconsistent with your beliefs in relationship anarchy, in that it implies there is a particular path you want these relationships to take. What if you pay more attention to enjoying each interaction as it is happening, and less to wondering where it might lead?

Undoubtedly some people won't be interested in you romantically (perhaps not the right word). This doesn't mean you're not interesting or lessen your value; it just means you're not a match with that person on that level. Could still get to know the person as a friend, or could just move on, but in either case you don't have to take a hit to your self-worth (which it seems like you are doing).

Hope this makes sense and has some ideas that ring true.
 
LadyLigeia said:
I've spoken before about how I get fearful when I like someone because the moment I feel comfortable expressing just a bit of interest and start feeling comfortable with feeling some remote infatuation, the situation goes awry. I've been told that I don't act overly interest and, if anything, I seem more indifferent, much like many people in my generation. Even if everything seems to be going well and our interest seems equal, the minute I become comfortable about "opening up" and letting my guard down, they magically aren't interested in me.

Beneath my affable exterior lurks something else... I am afraid to approach guys (specifically men) and if I do, I have to completely ignore that I like them in the first place or else it all goes to shit. Projected, illusory exaggerated interest as a downfall to approaching men as a woman is the one that really bugs me out, honestly.

Here's the thing:
There have been many times where I've requited the pursuit of someone who was more openly and aggressively pursuing me, only to have them (plurality of guys) lose interest in me when what I did was nowhere near as flagrant as what they did. It's gotten to the point where I'm actually afraid to have crushes - well, at least ones that I acknowledge to myself or others because even if my behavior doesn't change, they're magically not into me.

Why do some people (namely, the men I like because women don't do this) do that? Why do these guys eagerly pursue me but when I start doing it back in a non-abrasive way that is not nearly as forward as their actions, they get turned off, even though they were more obviously and aggressively pursuing than I was. I've honestly asked friends if I give off the vibes of being too "into" someone and they're usually like, "Actually, you don't show more interest in them than they do to you, so no, you don't come off as weird." Does a girl showing interest in a guy reflect a lack of opportunities? Let me tell ya flat-out that THAT is a far cry from my reality, thankfully. I've been thinking about it a lot lately. It makes me feel paranoid, especially since I run at the slightest sign of "not interested." I find sexual rejection to be crushing, although I realize that it doesn't mean that I'm not a good person. It still devastates me and there's no way I can get any more paranoid than I already am when I assess whether to go for it or not. It really upsets me because I feel like I can't have crushes or form healthful sexual/romantic attachments because no matter how vigilant I am in ascertaining whether someone likes me or judging by the valorous efforts of their pursuits (which they initiate and perpetuate), I can never be too sure or feel safe about it. It really upsets me and dulls my shine.

Insights as to why this happens and how I could avoid it are greatly appreciated. I just don't think it's possible for me to be more "careful" than I am now and it's ruining my ability to have crushes and such. My friends have even seen it happen - a guy (one whom my friend hooked me up with) was aggressively pursuing me but then on the second "date" when we all hung out, he started acting aloof and shit. There was really no warning sign of it, either, and he's the one whom arranged for us to hang out. I understand the difference between flirting with intent and casual flirtation. It's not like I ever want anything "serious" or disproportionate to what they appear to want. As soon as I let my guard down and trust that he likes me, then their interest fades. I'm not the kind of person whom wants people I can't have, either, so I don't want someone less when I have them.

The other problem with this is that I want emotional intimacy. I've noticed that many people - ESPECIALLY monogamous people - tend to polarize the desire to deeply connect with someone and infatuation immediately as something "serious." I feel like I have to numb my emotions if I want any kind of fulfillment in that arena. Like I said, I'm careful to never express interest that is more intense than the interest being expressed to me, but it's gotten to the point where I'm actually afraid of liking people.

Insights? Advice? Sorry for this drivel. I hope it makes sense. Also, I understand that I am the common denominator in all of these scenarios, but I'm just not sure how much more I can go with the flow than I already do and not have my hopes dash. My perceptions are realistic, but I think that The Principle of Least Interest might have something to do with how others treat me which, in turn, shapes how I treat other people.
Click to expand...

Some things strike me about this post and some of the follow up posts you made. You are the common denominator here. I've found in my life that the universe [or other appropriate word] provides situations that we can learn from and grow - or we don't and the universe will just keep chucking that particular situation at us until we get a clue. Or not and we remain stuck in whatever pattern we've created for ourselves.

You strike me as being very, very afraid of rejection. This is totally understandable. Rejection hurts and is never fun. Many people fear rejection. But from your wording, this fear drives your behavior quite a bit. You spend *so* much time calibrating your responses, non-verbal clues, and overall demeanor just to avoid being rejected. You don't give out more 'clues' than what the other person does. You mention you know rejection is often not about you specifically - it's often more about what is going on with the other person - and that it is not a measurement of your worth. But I don't think you actually, in your deepest self, really believe that. Perhaps, to you, it is an expression of your lack of worth.

I suggest exploring that in yourself. Why so scared? Is it because you do think rejection is a refusal to see or acknowledge your value? Or some other reason? I urge you to think this over because, in my opinion, being able to gracefully deal with rejection is a necessity to be a healthy adult.

What do I mean by gracefully dealing with rejection? First, it means we acknowledge that rejections are often not about us at all. They are more to do with whatever is going on with the other person - much of which we will never know. So, 1) not about us. Second, avoiding pain and disappointment will cut down on opportunities for joy and love in your life. I see this dynamic at work in your words. Carefully managing your emotions and what signals you give out takes so much time and effort and brain space that you may be missing out. Without being willing to risk suffering pain and disappointment, you shut off so many possiblities in your life. 2) No pain, no gain. (Trite, I know! But true.) Third, 3) feel the feels. When I get rejected, it always hurts and sometimes I am angry and sad too. I try to fully feel these. (I'm so not perfect at this btw!) But that pain is worth it for me because I know experiencing this situation, icky as it is, will allow me to be in a situation down the road where there is joy and acceptance and love. Finally, I find reframing rejection mentally very helpful. 4) Think of a 'no' as a gift. How is a 'no' a gift? Because the other person is showing you who they are, they are being truthful. Now sometimes this is utterly inadvertent and unconscious on their part. The young men who rejected you the minute you showed some interest back? They truthfully showed they were unable to be a true partner to you in that moment. I'm sure that's not what they consciously meant to indicate. But this in fact what happened. And, oddly, try to be grateful. Can you imagine the clusterfuck of a relationship with someone so into games and weird ideas about women and how to interact with them? Whew! You got lucky!

Now you are not responsible for their ungracious behavior. I do think other posters hit it on the head with that old trope of being the pursuer and not being interested once the 'prey' is caught. Clearly the universe is sending them some situations to learn from too.

But I do think we attract those things that we fear. You fear rejection. So life, the universe, etc. puts you in positions where that very thing happens - and in ways that emphasize your emotions about it. As I often say when shitty things happen - 'Another fucking opportunity for personal growth!'.

If you get to a point where you don't fear rejection (no one ever likes getting rejected), that does not mean you won't still get rejected. But I bet you will find that when people turn you down, it will happen in ways that are healthier and less bullshitty. You will take more chances - ask men out sometimes (if you want), take a chance on someone who you click with but isn't necessarily your 'type', try a new job, move to another country, write a book, make controversial art. Whatever! Coping gracefully with rejection opens up your life in ways that are difficult to describe but are very real.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top