The story of Spork.

[Spork]

Yesterday, I nearly composed another post after something on Facebook upset me, but then I decided not to. I feel I need to be careful. A few people I know in real life read my blog (and I'm cool with that!) and it's hard to make sure people understand, it's not "you think that!?" it's more, "no, this is just the tar pit my mind is stuck in at this moment. I'll get out, given a bit of time."

I try to write only when I am OUT of the psychological muck. When I'm in it, the poison leaches into my writing and it gets...ugly.

So I was able to get out of the house and get some social time last night, and Hefe was there and so was Supernova and his girlfriend, and spending some time around them helped me get the kinks in my energy worked out. Unfortunately toward the end of the evening I started to get a stomach ache, but I will trade psychological discomfort for some physical discomfort any day of any week.

I feel generally better all around this morning.

**TRIGGER WARNING - Sexual assault, suicide discussed below.**

So the issue that tripped my triggers was an article I read after yesterday's postings here had happened. It was some news article about a case where an MMA fighter broke into the apartment of his ex girlfriend, and beat her severely (she will have lifelong disabilities and nearly died) and then held her at knife point and sexually assaulted her. He got a significant sentence. The issue was, predictably, in the comments. An early poster asked, "Isn't she a porn star?" (The answer is, yes, she was a famous porn star.) After that it was all downhill. His sentence was too severe, he needs therapy, not jail, she probably deserved it, bet she drove him nuts. What made me so sick and angry was that due to being a sex worker, her life was worth less than nothing to literally hundreds of men commenting on that article, but I am quite sure they all love porn.

And the general overarching idea, which ties right back to my feelings in destroying content I've made in the past, is that many men in our society want women to be sexual, but also want them to suffer for it.

Why? Damn it, WHY??

A man who is more than happy to chase casual sex but then will say he wants women to have less access to birth control or abortion because she should just keep her legs shut. Well you weren't saying that when you picked some chick up at the bar and banged her and then never called her again dude.

The boys who got that girl drunk that I knew in high school and assaulted her and then laughed about it in the school afterwards. I still don't know if she ran away, moved away, killed herself, or what...and the last I spoke to one of those guys, years ago but after he'd grown up and had a wife and kid, he still did not think it was a big deal. Called her a "dumb slut" and asked if I was still "mad about that." That girl was a virgin before that night, and had about 8 boys rape her while she was blackout drunk...AND MOCK HER FOR IT AFTERWARDS. The whole school was laughing at her and talking about the things they put into her body like it was just the funniest ever joke. And then she disappeared. And that's not a big deal? I trusted some of those boys. I did not think that they were such monsters. To me, this is monstrous. I feel it needs to be understood to the men I know, that there is only one escape when everyone around you has done this to you...you can end your own life...and if something like this had happened to me, I would have tried. I guarantee it.

And even guys who agree with me that these things are monstrous, seem happy enough to view leaked sex tapes and nudes, especially knowing the woman is traumatized that they are shared and feels violated. Again, in the place of those women, confronted with the knowledge that millions of men had violated me and it would never stop, I would probably try to end myself. It's the only way you stop that kind of hurt, as far as I can see. It really is THAT big of a deal.

This stuff...I get it in my head and it makes it hard to trust. Not even men necessarily, but to trust sexuality and that mine as a woman isn't just something that can be used to cause me harm. You don't actually have to be a rape victim to see the effects of rape culture everywhere, and it is nearly maddening at times.

Now...it is at this point, that many of my female friends try to convince me that I am a feminist. And I must say that when I am stuck in the tar pit of these thoughts, I very nearly agree.

And then I contemplate the suffering of men that I have known. When I consider the trouble that a woman's sexuality is so often used to hurt her, and then I must ask, "Is not a man's sexuality used to hurt him?" And in most of our American culture, the answer to that is YES. Men who only want love, and connection, and companionship...basic human stuff...feel that they are demonized, feared, made out to be monsters. Men have such a high degree of work they are expected to put into seeking love and sex, but they are beset with so many attacks on their self esteem. Not only "men are told to suppress their emotions" but they are invalidated in them, they are denied the kind of touch and social support that are more widely available to women. I have known so many wonderful men. They do not deserve to pay for the crimes of the monstrous among them. And too, I have known some women who were horrible people.

And so because I do have compassion for men and believe that we all have our struggles, and because I do not feel solidarity for all women, I don't feel right to call myself feminist.

But there's another problem with it. There is a sense that feminists say, "My problems are your fault because patriarchy, and your problems are also your fault because patriarchy." And I don't agree with that, either. I've known enough men to know that most of them do an awful lot...sometimes pretty much everything in their lives...to impress and please and serve women. Whether that is parading around in bright plumage to wow all the ladies, or it's building a fancy nest of sticks for The One... Men are very influenced by the women in their lives. Some women use this influence for good, looking out for the best interest of the household unit for instance...and some women use it for personal gain or spite or other questionable motivations.

Historically, I wonder how many bad men have a bad woman standing just behind one shoulder, in the safety of the shadows, sending him out to pillage for her own gain? He goes out and takes the risks, she stays home and reaps the rewards. And she guides men of the next generation in the raising of the children.

My point is that in some ways we are all to blame, we as a species, humanity, for the world we have built, the bed we've made and now lie in. The only way to be any better is to challenge the ideas that we are taught, the default ways that people think and act, and really check ourselves on whether we are acting in good ways, loving ways, kind ways, to our fellow people.

I often pick up on a sense of unease that men have with women yelling for "equality." I don't think they can fully articulate why they feel upset about this...but in my view, they are knowingly manipulated into living lives for women, serving the interests of women in order to have anything from sex to love to a family...and men know this. Now on top of that power, which many women don't even contemplate that we have, we also want to take the other forms of social power that men have traditionally held. It's like we want to be everywhere doing everything, and the question would be, OK...but what is left for men? What role is still safe where a man has value and a place? What purpose remains for American men? I see a lot of fear and a lot of hurt on the part of men who struggle to articulate why the ideals of "social justice" and feminism disturb them.

So to come back to what had me all bent out of shape yesterday...it makes me wonder, in the development of these social structures that pull women to be sexually expressive yet set us up to be destroyed by our own sexuality, HOW MUCH of this, which we lay at the feet of "patriarchy" is in fact the more subtle manipulations of powerful women standing behind powerful men, wanting them to stay away from younger, pretty women who tempt them, and creating all kinds of shame and guilt and consequences for the threatening other woman who might draw the attention of her man? While this Matron-in-the-Shadows may not have done it all on her own, I think we are ignoring that she may have played a part.

I'm not saying that I am an enemy, exactly, of feminism, but that I think it's important that we have a bigger conversation, I'd rather it were a more inclusive one, and I don't like how the issues of men (not to mention LGBTQ+) get erased or completely devalued in that ideology...when I have known men who lived lives of suffering and it's treated as "well, your problems are nothing, mine are worse." That shit just doesn't help anybody.

 

[Spork]

It should be clear, I hope, that yesterday's emotional place translated in under 24 hours to a more philosophical place, and one that is more fair and sensible.

This is exactly how my mind operates. I get upset and riled up, stew on it quietly for a bit, and then once the feelings blow over, I can think. I am, I think and hope, not often unreasonable in my outlook or handling of things. This is part of my intention to, even when under the influence of uncontrollable emotions, have my words and my actions well in hand. I do try.

In other news, today is Comey's testimony and my god I hope desperately that it destroys the Great Orange Menace once and for all. I just went out to smoke, and talked to a coworker, who told me that "they're going after Obama and Hillary today, and they're going down!" I wonder where she is getting her news. Frankly though, I could not care less if either of them are implicated of wrongdoing, if they did wrong, let them pay. I'm not in this to champion either of them, though I'll say it loud and clear that my GOD do I miss Obama's dignified attitude. But it would be such a relief to see the entire trump administration invalidated and sent packing. I mean...it's almost too much to hope for, but hey. A girl can dream.

My older son is doing great in his online summer courses. He is almost 30% done with one of them already. He can in fact blaze through them as fast as he wants. One teacher has even said, "the sooner you get it all done, the sooner you get to go enjoy your summer" in the introductory letter he sent home. So fingers crossed that the boy keeps up this momentum. I am able to log in and watch his progress closely, so that is awesome.

So yeah that's the world inside and outside of my head, and probably enough wall o' text for one morning.

 

[icesong]

And then I contemplate the suffering of men that I have known. When I consider the trouble that a woman's sexuality is so often used to hurt her, and then I must ask, "Is not a man's sexuality used to hurt him?" And in most of our American culture, the answer to that is YES. Men who only want love, and connection, and companionship...basic human stuff...feel that they are demonized, feared, made out to be monsters. Men have such a high degree of work they are expected to put into seeking love and sex, but they are beset with so many attacks on their self esteem. Not only "men are told to suppress their emotions" but they are invalidated in them, they are denied the kind of touch and social support that are more widely available to women. I have known so many wonderful men. They do not deserve to pay for the crimes of the monstrous among them. And too, I have known some women who were horrible people.

And so because I do have compassion for men and believe that we all have our struggles, and because I do not feel solidarity for all women, I don't feel right to call myself feminist.

But there's another problem with it. There is a sense that feminists say, "My problems are your fault because patriarchy, and your problems are also your fault because patriarchy." And I don't agree with that, either. I've known enough men to know that most of them do an awful lot...sometimes pretty much everything in their lives...to impress and please and serve women. Whether that is parading around in bright plumage to wow all the ladies, or it's building a fancy nest of sticks for The One... Men are very influenced by the women in their lives. Some women use this influence for good, looking out for the best interest of the household unit for instance...and some women use it for personal gain or spite or other questionable motivations.

Historically, I wonder how many bad men have a bad woman standing just behind one shoulder, in the safety of the shadows, sending him out to pillage for her own gain? He goes out and takes the risks, she stays home and reaps the rewards. And she guides men of the next generation in the raising of the children

I am a pretty radical feminist, and the thing I think is missing from your criticism of the movement is the difference between society's oppression and individual bad actors. It's like the #notallmen /#yesallwomen debate - yes, there are good guys out there who get hurt. Yes, there are women who use what power they have (in the face of societal oppression) in ways that are toxic and harmful. But feminism isn't really about the individual so much as the *societal patterns*.

(And the concerns of LGBTQ+ and a wide range more are more centered if you talk to intersectional feminists, as opposed to some of the first/second/even third wave ones...)

::steps off soapbox::

 

[Tinwen]

But feminism isn't really about the individual so much as the *societal patterns*.

I just read Sporks analysis too, and I tend to agree to a large degree. I think what she is naming IS a pattern. That doesn't invalidate any patterns named by the feminists.
I do see a lot of tendencies in men (especially the "nice guys") sacrifice themselves for the women around them. Of course this is neither very compelling nor helpful, but I think it's a rather common narative (strongly affecting ~20% of guys perhaps?) that puts women on a pedestal and tells young guys that the only way to "earn" a female partner is to serve her. It leads to passive agression and codependency and should be combatted with the same fiercefulness as any notions of women being there to serve men.

 

[Spork]

I am a pretty radical feminist, and the thing I think is missing from your criticism of the movement is the difference between society's oppression and individual bad actors. It's like the #notallmen /#yesallwomen debate - yes, there are good guys out there who get hurt. Yes, there are women who use what power they have (in the face of societal oppression) in ways that are toxic and harmful. But feminism isn't really about the individual so much as the *societal patterns*.

(And the concerns of LGBTQ+ and a wide range more are more centered if you talk to intersectional feminists, as opposed to some of the first/second/even third wave ones...)

::steps off soapbox::

Right, but the point that bugs me, is that my feeling is this antagonism toward men as the ones who benefit from patriarchy and the creators of it.

I mean, it's right there in the name.

But what if women in history, wielded power from behind the curtain in directing the men in their lives to seize what they could, even at the expense of other women? In the building of the problem fortress, what if women also laid many bricks, this is what I'm asking...

THESE bad actors, are not everyday people, they are the people who shaped these ideologies from the get-go, the wives and daughters of powerful men.

I just wonder if there is more to everything than male oppression of female victims, on the bigger scale.

And on the smaller scale, my place is to reject unkind and unloving and harmful speech and attitudes and ideas, to feel compassion for anyone who is suffering because of harmful social constructs, and to choose more wisely who I give my own resources to. In this, as in some other areas, I am far happier to be with Zen than with my ex. Zen has been harmed by feminism in that there were some at a young age who made him feel painted into a corner as someone whose nature was simply bad, out of his hands by virtue of the gender he was born...that men were terrible and women were pristine. The church he later belonged to gave him something of the opposite message. Neither was helpful to him for most of his life, and much harm was done. I FEEL him on this. I've been made to feel like I am lacking in the capacity to be GOOD merely for having been born female, I have also felt how painfully divisive it is to look at the opposite gender as the enemy.

And at all levels, I object to the polarization. How on earth can a couple including a woman and a man find happiness if they cannot be on the same team? When you raise people to believe that it's all a game and the other gender is not on their side, at best the other team and at worst a deadly enemy and a threat... How can we simply meet as human being who want love and connection and joy all the same?

So I prefer to think of it more as humanism and a desire to expose the toxic ideologies in our culture that do harm to us all.

And honestly, I have to. Because if I don't...if I don't give equal latitude to the suffering and the struggles of men?...then I lose all ability to trust, to receive love, and to enjoy my own sexuality. Because how can I conscience being so vulnerable, to someone who is bound to be an enemy?

At least I can recognize that I've known an awful lot of men who feel the exact same way.

 

[Spork]

I just read Sporks analysis too, and I tend to agree to a large degree. I think what she is naming IS a pattern. That doesn't invalidate any patterns named by the feminists.
I do see a lot of tendencies in men (especially the "nice guys") sacrifice themselves for the women around them. Of course this is neither very compelling nor helpful, but I think it's a rather common narative (strongly affecting ~20% of guys perhaps?) that puts women on a pedestal and tells young guys that the only way to "earn" a female partner is to serve her. It leads to passive agression and codependency and should be combatted with the same fiercefulness as any notions of women being there to serve men.

I am not only talking about that.

I'm talking about normal men who have pursued entire careers, in the hopes of impressing women. Every man in a rock band or who ever wanted to be in one.

I am talking about how many stories revolve around "hero gets the girl." Like the whole point, of all the greatest acts a man can accomplish in life, is to win the love of a woman. Like either it is required validation that you are "good enough" or it is this entitlement that once you have "arrived" as a successful male, you will be issued a pretty female mate by the almighty powers that be.

And heaven help the ones who grow up not behaving in the most appropriate competitive ways, the guys who were nerdy, get to hear people around them asking what woman will ever want them... Just like when I was a girl and told my Mom that I liked David Bowie in Labyrinth and I wished I could marry him, and she told me that famous rich men like him only like pretty blonde women with blue eyes (how funny, that he was married to Iman. My mother can shut her damn mouth.) But there is that whole culture that men are brought into where they have to compete or get stomped down physically, mentally and emotionally, and that if they don't do it well enough they will never be loved. Just as women get toxic narratives about what we have to be, to deserve love.

A lot of this falls under "toxic masculinity."

It is so much more than just the nice guys.

And of course just like women, there are men whose lives and upbringing will leave them more, or less, vulnerable to damaging influences and messages. I'm only saying that I have known many, MANY MANY and they don't fit any one stereotype, and it's a lot more than 20%.

And more to the point I think that if we're all going to be part of any kind of a solution, we've all got to bend enough to have compassion for others, even when it's a lot more validating to point at them and yell about their privilege and say that they'll never understand our struggles. Maybe we don't understand theirs, either. Maybe we could all try a bit harder.

 

[Reverie]

I am a pretty radical feminist, and the thing I think is missing from your criticism of the movement is the difference between society's oppression and individual bad actors. It's like the #notallmen /#yesallwomen debate - yes, there are good guys out there who get hurt. Yes, there are women who use what power they have (in the face of societal oppression) in ways that are toxic and harmful. But feminism isn't really about the individual so much as the *societal patterns*.

(And the concerns of LGBTQ+ and a wide range more are more centered if you talk to intersectional feminists, as opposed to some of the first/second/even third wave ones...)

::steps off soapbox::

All of this, and adding this:

All feminism is, is the desire for women to achieve equality to men. One way we'll know that this has happened is when there is an equal (or perhaps at least way closer to equal) proportion of men and women in positions of power.

I happen to believe that the very mechanisms you're talking about, Spork, are the ones that men use to justify keeping women disempowered:

Many men claim that because they do things to try to impress and woo women, then women are the ones with the "real power" because they control access to sex and reproduction. This leads men to try to legislate sex and reproduction, to take that control away from women because they hate feeling powerless in that way. Resentment of that control also leads to rape and sexual assault.

Have you read Sex at Dawn? It includes some very interesting information that I think can be summarized (it's been a while since I've read it) like this: in societies where women have more power, and where they feel safe, there is more sex and love to go around for everyone. Thus, if men weren't so busy repressing and trying to control women and their sexuality (in the hopes of reserving it for themselves), they'd be more likely to have more sex.

If women didn't have to fear sexual violence, if they were not shamed for desiring sex as much as men do, if they were certain that they had complete control over their family planning, they would have more sex less discriminately. Everyone would be a little more relaxed. But our particular society is grounded in patrilineal gene guarding and its attendant greed: hoarding supplies and trying to make sure they're passed on only to one's own genetic offspring. Hopefully one day we'll get past all that. I don't expect it to be in my lifetime, but I intend to do my part anyway.

Repressive patriarchy is bad for men too—it puts them in that position where they aren't supposed to have feelings, where they dare not be seen as weak, where they are competing for women as a prize.

And I don't blame most "men" as individuals, for this happening on a societal level—it's just how society currently is, and the status quo is that they are in power, and therefore, unless they have been properly educated (and open-minded to receive that education), it can be hard for them to even see their own privilege. And then, of course, when they lose ground on that privilege, it feels like something is being taken away from them . . . because it is. But it's only the unfair extra share that they've had for a very long time.

However, I do blame individual men who have been offered the chance to learn and have chosen not to—who have gotten defensive and dug in rather than been open to learning. I have known a number of wonderful feminist men (who specifically identify as such). The first I met was my sociology lecturer in undergrad, a grad student teaching Sociology 101. That class absolutely blew my mind, and I feel like everyone should at least do the readings we had to do in that class. So eye-opening!

Sorry to go on forever on your blog. This is one of those issues that I feel very strongly about and I tend to believe that I can sway smart people if I only can find the right words—to me, there is a glowing truth to be imparted, and if I fail, it is because my arguments were flawed.

 

[Spork]

No, please feel free to go on as much as you like!

I feel like a lot of the issues are in the semantics.

So I see this nasty edifice that does bad shit to people. To women. To men.

Feminism says: "We want to reduce the power and privilege of men (which means all men, in general, and every man, as an individual) and give equality to women."

I say: "I want to blow this institution into smithereens and try to rebuild something that is healthier and happier for all of us."
I REJECT YOUR REALITY AND SUBSTITUTE MY OWN! HA!!

I feel that men AND WOMEN in human history built a bad thing. And that men AND WOMEN in modern times continue to work to keep it going (hello female Republicans I am looking at you) and that it will take men AND WOMEN to dismantle it. But so long as the message is, "Down with men! Up with women! Let's take stuff from men and give it to women, while compromising nothing!" We do not get to that cooperative place.

I don't like the word privilege either though I understand what it is supposed to mean...because again, I don't like to negate the sufferings I've seen in supposedly privileged people. If a white man is so headfucked he kills himself, how much was he enjoying his privilege? I get it, but again I feel it's divisive. I want to reach out a genuine hand and say, "Dude I feel you, I hear you. I know you have hurt, and I get it. I am here to listen to you, and I would like if you would also listen to me."

Instead of saying, "You know nothing of pain! Fuck you!"

Are some of the ideas of feminism things that I get behind? Oh yes, you bet. I just feel a strong need to use a different word. Humanism is the best I've been able to find so far.

 

[Reverie]

Feminism says: "We want to reduce the power and privilege of men (which means all men, in general, and every man, as an individual) and give equality to women."

I say: "I want to blow this institution into smithereens and try to rebuild something that is healthier and happier for all of us."
I REJECT YOUR REALITY AND SUBSTITUTE MY OWN! HA!!

I feel that men AND WOMEN in human history built a bad thing. And that men AND WOMEN in modern times continue to work to keep it going (hello female Republicans I am looking at you) and that it will take men AND WOMEN to dismantle it.

I'm . . . not so sure that women helped to build it. I mean, the dawn of this thing was pre-history, so I can't know for sure, but I do know that in the surviving texts, there is an awful lot about women as basically chattel. (And yes, there were also male slaves, but there were kind of barely any women who were not to some degree enslaved.) I do agree with you that some women are working to keep it going—and I, in large part, blame that most famous work of ancient literature, the bible, for that—but I'd hazard a guess that when women began to basically become property they didn't have much say in it. We've come a long way from there, but it is feminism that did it—feminists who fought for the right to vote, feminists who fought to work outside the home, feminists who fought for (and are still fighting for) reproductive rights and equal pay.

Honestly, I think the only area in which more for women directly takes away from men would be in the work sphere:

In terms of positions of power (government, heads of corporations, etc.), because the nature of a position is such that only one can hold it if it's a women when it normally would have been a man, I suppose "a" man can be thought of as having lost it—though not a particular man, because it's not like they are pulling a man out of a position to replace him with a woman. Rather, a vacated position or newly created position may go to a woman instead of to a man.

And having traditionally male-dominated professions integrated by the arrival of women makes those job sites less of a "boys' club" atmosphere, but that does not prevent men from joining and becoming part of actual "boys' clubs" off of company time.

I am trying to think of how concrete feminist goals otherwise take anything specific from men, and I can't.

- Reproductive rights? It's a woman's body and therefore does not affect men.

- Equal pay? Not taking away from men, but perhaps taking from the corporation that employs them both.

- Equal education for women worldwide? A more educated populace helps everyone.

- Better family leave? Helps the offspring of men and women, and one of the goals is actually to have leave for men too, so they can help with the kids.

Really, in concrete terms, men would lose nothing or very little if feminist goals were realized. Abstractly, though, they would definitely lose "top dog" status to "equal dog" status.

I feel like your first couple of posts seem to be saying something along the lines of "women have all the power in the private sphere, so it's understandable if men want all the power in the public sphere." (Please, correct me if that's a mis-reading!) I think what feminism is fighting for is for each person, whether male or female, to have equal power and control over their autonomous choices, whether private or public. Right now, there are systemic obstructions in place that prevent most women from having that. The GOAL of feminism is not to take something away from men—it's to remove those obstacles to women's freedom. Does that make sense?

And, yes, if there was a way to "blow up the whole system" and start over, I'd be all for it—as long as women and men each ended up free and autonomous and equal in choices in the end.

I don't like the word privilege either though I understand what it is supposed to mean...because again, I don't like to negate the sufferings I've seen in supposedly privileged people. If a white man is so headfucked he kills himself, how much was he enjoying his privilege? I get it, but again I feel it's divisive. I want to reach out a genuine hand and say, "Dude I feel you, I hear you. I know you have hurt, and I get it. I am here to listen to you, and I would like if you would also listen to me."

Instead of saying, "You know nothing of pain! Fuck you!"

As for privilege, this essay is a great place to start, if you haven't read it yet. I'm not arguing that many white men don't have painful or difficult lives. Many of them do—I was raised in a very poor, white, blue-collar suburb and saw a ton of disappointment, self-hatred, and misery in many males around me growing up. But the pain of those men is not a reason to back down from working toward equality.

I definitely don't think that I (or like 90% of the feminists, men or women, that I know) would ever say "You know nothing of pain! Fuck you!" to a suicidal white man, or to any suicidal person. Granted, I am acquainted with one or two nutty extremists who truly do categorize themselves as misandrists and might do that, but those nutty extremists give the entire movement a bad name as misandrists or looking out only for themselves, much the way that extremist terrorists give an entire religion a reputation for violence despite most Muslims being peace-loving. (I'm anti-religion in general, for the record, but I do think it's unfair to categorize a moderate majority on the actions of the extremist few.)

Hopefully, the feminist in question, when trying to educate someone, will use some of the strategies outlined here, to help the person feel heard and supported even while educating them. And, y'know, wait till after they're not suicidal to try.

I wonder if you're maybe conflating the entire concept of feminism with that handful of extremists, and that's why the word feels poisoned to you. The more women who claim the label who are NOT extremists, the less coupled the two would be. (I'm not trying to pressure you to claim it if it does not fit, just pointing it out.)

 

[Spork]

It feels poisoned to me because I get the sense of exclusion, blame and hurt experienced by men I have known. And I want to be compassionate to them. I don't want to put one group's problems in a place of erasing or invalidating the life experiences and struggles of other human beings, at the individual level. And I have known many men who feel that feminism treats them as the enemy in a very personal way.

I want to educate people too, but I feel like if they are defensive from the very beginning, and all because of the connotations they feel with a word, then hey...we can use a different word!

My questioning about women having part in the formation of the patriarchal system in the beginnings...this is only a new idea that popped into my head, and I want to sit and fondle it in my brain a bit and wonder about it. It's not like there will ever be a way to prove or disprove it. But what I am wondering is...in history, where women were like chattel, OFFICIALLY...how many men paired with women, and came to love them and desire to treat them with respect? I am betting it happened. At the least, an unhappy partner could probably make a man's life difficult at home, right? So maybe our historical leader guy had a wife he wanted to keep happy. And maybe she realized that by being married to a powerful male, she could get certain lifestyle benefits from that. So she might encourage him to do things to sustain the power they had as individuals...but suppose along comes a hot young hussy-chattel and turns his head...well what is going to preserve her position, as she ages, other than the kind of moral codes and social structures you encounter in the Bible? What if some of the ideas or more subtle pressures that acted upon the creators of the patriarchal system were ALSO, not just men making the rules to keep women in line as property and breeders...but also to preserve the interests of the wives of powerful men, and their children? I am just considering, because with what I know of women, many women act in self interest and against that of other women. I see women saying awful things to other women, probably about as often as I see men doing it, though it's more often sneaky gossip, not as much right out there in the light of day.

And women today continue to support institutions that are not in our own best interest. Some of that is religious brainwashing, sure. Some of it seems too, a license to be backbiting and judgmental toward other women, and elevate themselves as "better than that."

I am interested in how certain social tendencies I see could translate into a nudge here and a nudge there on the right people at the right times in history to create these big bad cultural monsters we now must try and slay?

On reproductive rights...for what it's worth? I also strongly advocate for better reproductive choice options for men. I can't say it enough, I really hope that Vasalgel gets to the market one day. Condoms are a poor option. Men need better than that.

In addition to, the options that women have being available to us.

But that is my point, I think we could do better for all of us.

I think that girls need to be raised to understand that "no means no" even if a boy is the one saying it. I didn't know that. I assaulted a boy in high school, and it was no laughing matter. Were the genders merely reversed, I should have gone to jail.

I think that boys should learn to respect diversity of skills and individual value and calm down on the extreme competitive thing. At least insofar as being assholes to each other is concerned.

I think that boys could learn to have more respect for the space and voices of women. I recognize that "mansplaining" is totally a thing, and is often ridiculous (LOL at the facebook article where the guy corrected a woman multiple times on the spelling of her own name!)

Agree that sweeping policy changes to eliminate unfair considerations in hiring and pay negotiation should happen. One reason cited sometimes for the wage gap? Women are taught growing up more to take what we're given and not make a fuss, and men are taught to pursue what they want, and men are far more likely to negotiate starting salaries and increases. Case in point, I have never argued with a wage or a raise that was offered to me, in my life. I can't imagine how I'd even go about it. I feel lucky just to get whatever they offer me. When asked what my minimum salary requirements are, I often lowball myself, I worry that I'll be seen as asking too much, and rejected for it.

I often worry about asking or being too much, and being rejected for it, in many areas of my life actually. This is part of my socialization. Gendered or not, apparently more women are like this and more men aren't.

Also, what you talk about with the "taking from men" and the matter of women having power in the private sphere, the reason I mention those is not that they are strongly held beliefs of mine but rather that I could imagine how a man might see it that way. Not even "she has power in the private sphere" but MASSIVE social power... A Mom raised the boy, the boy sets out to figure out how to find a woman to love him, spends his life building a career that he hopes will make him good mate material...or trying to be the sort of man who will impress women and get him laid. I have known loads of guys who basically believe that every single thing a male does in life is for the sake of women, or a woman.

That IS a form of power. We judge them as ultimately worthwhile or not.

And the power that women have to reject them and destroy their sense of self worth with it, is something that many men grapple with. No, they don't want to say that they are entitled to a woman's sex or love...and yet they don't know how to view themselves as worthwhile if they don't have it. Or at least, it's hard. And lonely. And unhappy.

I feel for them in that. That's all I am saying. I feel compassion for them.

I could now say, "Yes but women have it harder because..." and on and on. Ultimately I don't want to do that, though. I want to just recognize that all humans have their struggles. I mean hell, I'm privileged as fuck sitting here born in America, no bombs falling on my town and enough food to eat. Doing better than most people in the world! But I have to recognize when I look at life, that even as a female who struggles with female issues, I know plenty of cis-het white dudes who have it way worse than me, who have suffered and struggled far more, simply because of the things society brought them up with. I recognize that. I care about that. I won't be blind to it. I won't pick a side.

 

[Spork]

I guess another point is...the social issues outlined in your synopsis of feminist goals, Reverie...aside from voting in politicians who support those views, and standing for them, it is hard to convince all the people who don't agree that they are valid, that they are. Going head to head against opposing views on those things is difficult and unproductive.

What I am trying to do, is to more gently make connection with people and give it time before the tough subjects come into it. In connecting, I am hearing them, showing care to them, and then getting it to a point where they can hear me, and gradually sometimes, a person's thinking will shift in a different direction. Especially if they are seeing around them, people showing an example of being good and kind and compassionate, and someone is holding their hand and caring about their voice. You can't just jump into that, and on a big scale it doesn't work. I can't run up to a trump troll and get this done in an hour. It's a matter of cultivating friendships long enough so that people become more soft, more willing to hear and think and consider.

I am a huge extrovert, I've got social energy to spare. I try to do some good with it.

One thing that happened last night at the bar, was there was one of our new community members there, someone I've not talked to a lot, but he had told me the bare bones that he was in the middle of a divorce. He showed up and was alone. No one was talking to him. He is a tall, big young man, and he's socially awkward. He speaks with really long pauses. Before any of my closer associates showed up, I sat across from him and engaged him in conversation. He said he was depressed. I asked him, "depressed for reasons, or just feeling those feels today?" and he said mostly just feeling things. He is diagnosed with clinical depression. But his ex also just got back from a trip to Europe, and she is back in town staying with her Mom, and he's been thinking about their relationship a lot. I said so...mostly just feelings, but also some reasons, and those reasons don't help, huh? He smiled and agreed. We continued to talk. He had never heard of GWAR, so I showed him some pictures and a video. He ended up laughing, smiling.

I connected with him. I heard him. I offered some compassion. And then I granted him some distraction from his troubles.

That's what I do.

And when I nurture those connections into friendships, I end up with quite a bit of influence. And then I can start bending minds. But if I flip a switch with any of my audience to a defensive place, using words that have become triggery to them for some reason? I've lost 'em.

As someone who can be triggered by words myself, from personal connotations, even ones that no one intended...I get this. I get it well.

 

[Spork]

Got to talking to a friend a bit yesterday about all this, he identifies as an intersectional feminist. Have to say that my exploration of that mindset is limited, all I have seen is a system which appears to assign a sort of value based on how many minority factors you might claim or choose to champion. Like a gay, transwoman, black person might claim more right to compassion due to less privilege than anybody else...which I pushed back (predictably) with my assertion that I have compassion for anyone who struggles with issues and pain based on various social factors, and yes that has included cis-het white dudes. Yes, again, I do grasp the concept of privilege, I was born in America and don't have to build a tin shack out of trash and drink contaminated water and watch my kids starve. I recognize that I've been granted a great deal due to things that I didn't necessarily work to earn. My path has not always been easy, but it's been nowhere near as difficult as that the lives of so many, and I am grateful for what I have.

This morning's shower thought was "How does this desire to be compassionate to anyone translate to my frustration with my ex over the matter of Kathy Griffin and the severed trump head? I had literally no fucks to give and did not care if their son was traumatized, and this was the sticking point with my ex." Maybe because I just cannot see this as a valid thing to let a kid be traumatized over. To do what he does and step into the shoes of the parent, which was the grounds of his upset, if that had been my kid it would have been a teaching moment. There is a lesson in this, that you cannot let people bully you emotionally or upset you. That due to your position in life you might face people who hate you because of it, and you have to learn to live with that. That sometimes people make bad jokes. That you can't believe everything you see on the internet or TV. Something.

I would NOT have reacted as Old Wolf said he would, getting protective and wanting to punch somebody in the face for upsetting my kid. If your kid is so easily upset, you have some work to do as a parent. You can't expect to shape the world around your child to a place of perfect cognitive comfort at all times. And anyhow, even if you could, the trumps have more ability to do that if anyone does. They've got the resources to build a world of perfect comfort for that kid. They could create whatever posh bubble they wanted. He never even had to see this.

And there was another bit of social media conversation that rang into my mind on the subject, which was that a friend was complaining that Ocean City, MD will now officially say and do nothing about any topless women at the beach. It is now allowed. And he said "Interesting, since they are supposedly a family friendly environment. Gonna make family vacations interesting to say the least. Shame nobody that ever actually goes topless is someone who should." Ohhh buddy. Where DO I start? But I simply responded, "I don't see the issue here. We had a family friend who was breastfeeding her baby, came to visit and did so whenever she needed to. I raised my sons not to be stupid jerks, and they were polite and it was a complete non thing. No one cared. No one stared. No one was awkward or bothered at all." I sure wish that our culture would get over some of its baggage with regard to our bodies. It is part the oversexualization of nudity, and part the leftover Puritanical bullshit about shame and sexuality. It all needs to go, in my opinion. But I can only change the world one mind at a time.

I should write a book maybe. I keep thinking so. One day I will be this amazing creative human that I want to be, who gets by on her art and writing, wouldn't that be something...

 

[Reverie]

I do plan to eventually respond to this, but I am super busy right now and only have time to work on my own short blog post! Soon!

 

[Spork]

I do plan to eventually respond to this, but I am super busy right now and only have time to work on my own short blog post! Soon!

Totally understandable!

And I am not out to be too critical of feminists or feminism in previous posts, only to say that the term isn't a comfortable fit for what's in my brain. I want to be clear about that. I have just been looking for terminology and concepts that feel more inclusive and that make it easier to connect and share with certain different sorts of people, to include men. Express that caring about everybody and all their stuff.

Except Trump. He can go fuck himself. lol

 

[Rockit49]

Sweet

Lol

 

[Spork]

There was a thing I nearly wrote about last week, but didn't, and now that I talked to Zen about it in person I feel ok writing about it. It was so dumb.

So I've talked about Cal Garrison here, she is the astrologer that I read. I generally find her to be a lovely human (first off, she is old, and beautiful, generally a fine example of what I mean when I say that I find people to be beautiful as they age) and also, there have been many times that she has been spookily accurate, about me and people very close to me, in her horoscope writings. Normally I dismiss horoscopes out of hand, even though I find the general analysis of the various signs to be of interest, I assume that the guy writing for the newspaper is just some dude with a gig, not some guru who analyzes stars and charts. But Cal is...different. Or not. I don't know.

Anyhow.

Last week, her horoscopes for Zen, and me, gave me a sad feeling. And the fact that I did not hear from Zen on Wednesday or Thursday...basically we had lunch together Tuesday, he responded to a long message I sent on fetlife very briefly, and then I didn't hear from him until Friday when we were making plans...I had the space to let those vapors of cognitive discomfort settle around me. But at the same time, I knew it was stupid and I didn't want to be the needy girl who reached out and asked for a few words to keep me going...so I tried to dismiss it.

She had said that for him, Pisces, that he was "bored with bliss" and that now he's got what he always wanted, and will find that there is nothing to do now that he's arrived here, and will need something new to attach his passions to...but don't worry, it is on its way. And she said about me, Capricorn, that I need to accept that my love life will benefit from some time and distance, as my partner has "bigger fish to fry" for a while. All of this together means that he's bored with me, will find something else more exciting, and his interest will shift and fade. And I should deal with not being his priority. Well yeah, I do think we're in a long process of diminishing NRE here, but I certainly am not happy to think of a cooling phase in our relationship. I am just getting comfortable in my attachment to Zen, I don't like the notion of boredom being the defining word here. Jeez.

And of course then I remembered a point years ago where my ex had read a horoscope in a newspaper that said I'd soon find an exciting new lover or something and he flipped out on me. Which struck me at the time as so outrageous I could hardly find words for how silly and stupid it was. You can't get mad at your partner over something in their horoscope. That's nonsense!

And I wasn't getting mad...it was just that after that, I'd sent a message to try and describe an elaborate setup for a (hopefully) fun sex scene we might try, and the response was minimal...that was me, trying not to be boring, and it seemed like Zen was less than impressed. But then again, I'm a "words" person, and I don't think that he is. It might be the least important love language to him. That's what I was on about last week when I mentioned love languages.

And then we got together on Friday and all was instantly right with my world. That's how it is. When we are apart, I fret, when we are together, I'm good. His touch is a signal I can receive loud and clear...but only when we are together. At least I'm aware of the drift of my mind, and that these moments of insecurity are not really grounded in reality.

So that's the "in my head" recap, now to write about real stuff.

The weekend was a good balance of fun and excitement, relaxation, and productivity. Friday Zen and I had some private time and then we went to Game Night at the club, wound up playing Cards Against Humanity again since my friend was not prepared to run his roleplaying game, which was a mild disappointment...honestly had I known that would be the case, I'd have advocated for staying in with Zen. I should really cultivate a habit of messaging this friend and asking him if he's running the game, then we'd have known. But it was still fun. There is a new dude at the club who is really young, and seems driven to impress everyone around him with puppylike overenthusiasm and self-aggrandizing talk about his abilities with 3D printing and machine building among other things, and I'm on the fence with how I feel about him. I think that if his bragging is even mostly true, then he'll be a potential asset to the community...yet he should really calm down, because he almost makes people uncomfortable. Actually he DID make one young lady uncomfortable. I really wonder how he will act at his first play party.

Saturday, Zen and I had a go at some of my sex ideas, and the verdict was "we can refine some of the details of how we do this, but overall these things have merit and potential." We're trying to work out logistics of involving porn in our sex life, and with my better understanding of where my triggers lie, this is a good thing, not a bad thing. It is more complicated than "I don't like porn." I haven't got any problem with it when we're actually having sex.

But again, I spent YEARS being told, after sex with Old Wolf became a matter of me doing what he needed while being pretty disconnected personally, that I was a boring partner who was not as good as porn. That I didn't want it often enough, and didn't keep it interesting enough, and why should he bother with me when he could have porn every single day and find video of anything he wanted to see, when I couldn't even be bothered to dress up in lingerie for him. There was no way that I could keep up with his need for novelty, and I found it degrading (in an unpleasant way) to even try. So my response was, fine. You have your porn. But I don't want to hear about it. My sexuality was shut down, and his was behind a closed door, what he wanted a woman to be wasn't what I wanted to be.

But now I am in love, I feel happy and comfortable being vulnerable with Zen, I take great joy in how it feels to have sex with him, but I worry myself half to death about being pleasing for him. If having porn on in the bedroom makes sex with me more pleasing then I am all for it. It's when it's an either/or instead-of kind of a thing that I feel fearful, inadequate, or insecure....that there is an impossible standard there that I don't even know how to come close to meeting, since I can't magically transform myself into every kind of woman under the sun, or a perfect "barely legal" or whatever. I'm just me.

So anyhow, we worked out some logistics and we played with that and it was good. I had fun anyways.

And we had dinner with some friends of his, and later went to a party at the club and scened and socialized and had a lovely time. I had an odd experience, got a massage with some sort of muscle rub like an icy hot product...I've never used that stuff...and it felt SO WEIRD. Then we did a scene, and I think I realized halfway through it that the stuff probably had a small amount of something like lidocaine in it, because the surface impacts weren't quite registering as sharply, but the deeper (thuddy) stuff was. Then it wore off. That was also...interesting.

 

[icesong]

And then we got together on Friday and all was instantly right with my world. That's how it is. When we are apart, I fret, when we are together, I'm good. His touch is a signal I can receive loud and clear...but only when we are together. At least I'm aware of the drift of my mind, and that these moments of insecurity are not really grounded in reality.

That sort of thing happens to me too, with Artist - and he, too, expresses himself best via touch. Perhaps that's just the nature of connecting so deeply with someone in that language that you can't reconnect with every day. (she says, while having a rough day on that front - Knight out of town + post-con drop...)

 

[Spork]

That sort of thing happens to me too, with Artist - and he, too, expresses himself best via touch. Perhaps that's just the nature of connecting so deeply with someone in that language that you can't reconnect with every day. (she says, while having a rough day on that front - Knight out of town + post-con drop...)

Yeah, drop is definitely a bitch. Really just being stuck at a desk at work, too much time in my own head, and only being able to mostly see Zen on weekends does just get me sometimes, and as we often have pretty intense weekends, I expect drop is a factor in there somewhere, too. I really really hope everything works out for us to live together later this year, as soon as my bankruptcy is discharged I want to make that happen. Like if I could reconnect with him for even a tiny brief bit of time, when he comes home from work, most days...I think that would make a lot of difference.

 

[Spork]

Yesterday was interesting. And then not.

I took the day off work. I had my bankruptcy creditors' meeting in the morning. It went really well. Predictably as is often the case, no creditors showed up to pester anybody. I was one of five debtors there to have the meeting, and another man had the same lawyer as me. I watched three cases go ahead of me, and the same set of questions, culminating in "why are you declaring bankruptcy?" I had answers ready for everything.

My only real fear was that they would try to grab some of my assets. I had some stuff I thought was exempt, but it wasn't. (I DID do my research...but the state law website has a synopsis and FAQ page that presents certain categories, and it looked like these items would fit within them, but then the actual code itself says something different about how things are categorized and what is specifically not exempt, and then the docs that were submitted to the court had a whole third and completely different way of grouping stuff.) So it is basically rather confusing. So I started out with a few musical instruments that I thought would fall under the general category of "household goods" and some GWAR posters and art that I thought might go under "pictures, books" and the values met within the statutory dollar limits. Then my lawyer said, "No...these things aren't exempt..." and I got to stress for a few weeks about them being taken... And then the paperwork I got a copy of yesterday, which was put before the trustee, had the things categorized more like how I had them in the first place (more the art/posters, than the instruments)...and showed my GWAR stuff as being almost completely exempt. So confusing. Whatever.

The question was asked as to whether I was confident of the values I had assigned to my assets. I said, "Mostly. I have this band memorabilia that is hard to value because it depends very much on how you try to sell it. If you sold it locally, at auction or anything, you might not sell it at all, or you'd get a lot less. But there is a market on the national scale, for the stuff, there are collectors out there...so if you went to Ebay, then you could get what I stated as the value. I know the paperwork says to use yard sale prices but that didn't feel honest, so I reported the reasonable collectible value of the stuff."

He did not question me any further about specifically what kind of items I had, or anything, he just thanked me for my honesty and moved on.

Then he did ask about the musical instruments and I explained that they were student grade instruments in pretty rough condition from being through the hands of my teenage sons. He chuckled at some of my phrasing along the spirit of "misadventures in parenting" and didn't press any further. I refrained from adding to my description that these instruments and their cases may also have soaked up the pervasive odor of gym socks and Axe body spray, since they are stored in my 15 year old's bedroom...but that was the tone.

And when asked why I was there...well, I gave the Reader's Digest version of the two year long train wreck that was the end of my marriage, and my eventual need to get out of that house whatever the cost. It's all covered in the beginning of my blog, but that's what screwed up my finances. The clerk, a middle aged woman, was looking up from her transcription to nod sympathetically at me the entire time.

Afterwards, my lawyer said that he's worked with this trustee many times, and if he was interested in taking my stuff, he'd have been much more persistent in his questioning me about it. He has seen how this man acts. "Yeah, he's not interested." were his exact words. So that's really good. I then went outside and stood with this man and smoked a cigarette and decompressed a bit. We talked. Shook off the nerves that I think one is bound to feel with any kind of court appearance. And of course I wound up bringing up BDSM because that's how I do...and he was very interested, and I gave him a card for the club. He said he had seen so many pictures and videos online and always wanted to do that fancy rope work, and had I ever seen that done?, and of course I have since they do it practically every weekend at Voodoo...which excited him a lot... But he said he was worried about being able to do it safely, which I told him is exactly the right attitude. So yay me with the ongoing recruitment of new Voodoovians!

The rest of the day...well I'm ashamed to say that I did not accomplish a lot. I felt oddly spent like the release of so much tension left me just...no energy. Probably didn't help that I did not eat very much during the day, I went home and took what wound up being a very long nap. But in the early evening I made up for it by doing some housework, and making a good dinner for me and the boys, and working on art. The next piece is coming along nicely! In honor of the littles and the princesses and the ponies in the scene, I'm doing a pearlescent white unicorn, and the background will be ALL THE COLORS and also glitter. It's not as big and is coming along much faster, so I don't anticipate it being very expensive. Which is great, since it's not the kind of thing I will want to end up having to keep...not really my style. Hopefully somebody will buy it.

Tonight is the "mid-week" dungeon party. I think I'll be able to go, so long as my son has turned in the things he needs to by the time I get home tonight. He's doing pretty well but he's not really ahead now, he's working on today's due dates...today. Zen can't be there (working) so I'm not sure if I'll play, but it would be nice to get out.

 

[Shaya]

Hey Spork. Glad you got to keep your personal stuff.

It occurs to me that a lot of people may be interested in BDSM but just closeted and not know where to look. I maybe fall in that category myself. I wonder if someone might find a clever way to make use of that desire and start a functional business by roping in all these people who currently feel like they don't want to or cannot take that first step to into BDSM.

P.S. have you ever explained what your avatar is before?