The ... unexpected. Opening up the marriage, and the old friend suddenly isn't just a friend.

So, I figured it was time for an update, as quite a few things have happened over the last 10 days...

Due to some family issues, Kayla and I have only managed to see each other briefly during the last couple of weeks. Lots of flirting, lots of texting, some fun times on the phone... but only 30 minutes or so here and there in person. But, recently three very interesting things happened.

For one, I met up with Joe and Kayla in the evening one day to snag a drink and talk through a couple of totally unrelated issues to what all has been going on. Three of us just sitting there as friends for an hour or two. After freeing up table at the restaurant, we ended up heading back to their house for a bit - he curled up with Samantha (who joined us there), and Kayla immediately curled up with me on the couch without saying a single thing to anyone - and I very much mean curled up ~with~ me. Aside from making me rather blissfully happy (yes, I'm a guy, but... cuddles - I'm a touch person), Joe had absolutely no reaction at all - he's clearly ok, and Samantha is as well (and I've talked with him since - totally normal). We got some personal time afterwards, which he was also ok with - so that particular concern in any form is completely gone. Joe definitely knows that this is happening.

For a second, for the first time since all this started, I saw Kayla and Joe kiss... which was interesting. I've seen May obviously be flirty before - and I enjoy compersion - but this was a new twist on it. When I see May kiss / flirt, I'm used to precisely how that feels - generally excitement and happiness, and more than a little bit of sexual tension as well. When Joe and Kayla kissed, there was the brief twist of jealousy that it always starts with, but instead of the excitement, it was... joy? Happiness? Reminding me of being at their wedding? It was different, but still very happy, and none of the sexual tension that I would normally get. I didn't expect that, but it is nice to know that I still react with happiness seeing them be themselves as well (and we're all getting more comfortable with that in front of each other). It did throw me slightly, as I figured it would be more like when I see May having fun, but... I'm happy.

Third, May made a joke about my "new girlfriend". She can tell a little bit that I'm seeing someone - she wanted to (light heartedly) make sure I knew that she wasn't going anywhere with James, and to make sure that I was still good, and that whatever I was getting involved in, I wasn't planning on leaving her either. We had a long (but still holding to DADT) talk that everything is good, we're both still happy, and whatever is happening isn't bleeding over. This is pretty standard to us, and knowing my wife, the tone was light hearted - we've had this conversation before. Still choosing to leave that as it is for the moment, but it's acknowledged now.

Kayla and I did have a bit of time (via chat and in person) to talk about things. We both have acknowledged that this is a relationship; this is an "us" thing, and we're going to figure that out - this isn't a fling, it's dating, and while we don't know how long it will last (it may still be a short relationship, no one can see the future), it's very much dating... but it's dating with both of us very much planning on not changing the core situation. She is married and wants to stay with Joe as a primary, and I am married and want to stay with May as a primary - we are both secondary relationships to each other. Neither of us is super fond of the idea of hierarchy in relationships, but this works as that, and that's how we are going to start for now. We both acknowledge the NRE that we're feeling, and that we see this as a way to explore things, but with no intention of changing any kind of long term perspective - and based on how their V works, Kayla and I will stay in the closet much as Joe and Samantha are in the closet, and May/James are in the closet - there are concerns around work and some very very conservative families, so everyone is in the same situation there. I'm not sure how stable that is in the very long run, but since we're all in he same boat right now, we're managing.

For the moment, I think I'll leave it there - I think we've gotten through the "getting off the ground" stage of this. Any comments or thoughts?
 
Hi Rickmanger,

It sounds like you are gradually working things out with Kayla, you are working out what it means with Joe and May, you are not primary partners with Kayla, but you have a solid secondary relationship with her (which may or may not last). I still think you should double check with Joe, on whether sex with Kayla would be okay, although perhaps some of the urgency around that has lessened as you and Kayla are more in the "snuggling stage" right now, and may not be moving to sex right away. I think it's good that you saw Joe and Kayla kissing, sort of like a reality check, like you know you and Kayla are still a thing, but you are reminded that they are the primary relationship, and maybe in that way you are reminded that you and May are the primary relationship as well. It's just good to keep these things in perspective.

I hope the you/Kayla relationship continues to proceed.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I should have probably been a touch more clear on that - the X-rated/R-rated portion has most definitely ~not~ gone away, and if anything has only intensified over the last bit... the personal time we got after cuddling was about as close to actually having sex without having it (and we did talk about doing it that night). That's become a "Kayla is responsible for having that discussion with Joe" topic, which I'm ok with, but a touch... wary. However, as an added fun twist, he brought up doing a double date here soon with the four of us. I'm excited about the possibility, and so is Kayla, but it will be interesting as our first true double date since this all started (we'd hung out as the 4 of us plenty before).

You're absolutely right on the primary though - and I was very happy to see them being that way, it's just a different happy than I am seeing May have fun (if that makes sense)?
 
That makes sense: When you see May have fun with James, that is just seeing a secondary relationship. Seeing Joe and Kayla kissing is a whole other thing, it is seeing a primary relationship in action (one where you are involved with Kayla as a secondary). While at the same time, things are progressing with Kayla, and you are just waiting for her to have that discussion with Joe. Which may make you a touch nervous? as perhaps you do not know what Joe will say, or when that discussion will happen? I'm sure Kayla has strong incentive to get that done, as she (like you) is eager to move into the X-rated areas.
 
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