This could be fun.... need question ideas

[whatamIdoing]

Sounds to me like you need to put your foot down with where you want this relationship to be, and how its going to go ahead.

Is it still NSA for you? Or do you love this guy now? Either way, you need to be clear on the boundaries that you are comfortable with, not just by reference to B. What makes you comfortable?

And there, dear FlameKat, is the rub. I do not know. I do not love him. I like him a lot.

I'm not sure what boundaries to set, or how to figure this all out.

I know that I like that he's two hours away. It gives some structure to what is currently structureless.

 

[FlameKat]

*bigtime squeezy hugs*

Perhaps some boundaries where you have the option to explore the emotional side of things...

B might be red flagging because he can sense that its not just NSA anymore. He feels threatened and, as you are not sure yourself what is going on, he has every right to. Sort things out with B, be as honest as you can, then be more honest.

Trust me, I am in this spot myself right now, and damn, is it painful.

If things with J are meant to be, he'll be there when you and B are sorted. I'm not suggesting you stop contact, but very firm boundaries for now. Give a time period if, you need to. But B needs you to put him first for a bit, and he needs you to know what you're doing, and so do you.

J might not care what B is feeling, but he should care what you are feeling, and it's not ok for J to ignore the stress he is putting you through. Tell J to give you time/space/whatever you need to sort things out with B. If J ignores your need to do that, I doubt he is going to understand that B will always be there, and will always be a priority in your mind.

I think that makes sense...

 

[whatamIdoing]

*bigtime squeezy hugs*

Perhaps some boundaries where you have the option to explore the emotional side of things.

I'm not sure how to explore this alone, to be honest. I know B and I are talking and trying to figure it out. But what about J? Does he have a right to be part of this learning process?

B might be red flagging because he can sense that it's not just NSA anymore. He feels threatened, and, as you are not sure yourself what is going on, he has every right to. Sort things out with B. Be as honest as you can. Then be more honest. Trust me, I am in this spot myself right now and damn, is it painful.

Yeah, that's it. BINGO! Sadly, you win the prize.

<insert nervous laugh here>

I was the one who brought up to B that it seemed to be changing from NSA to something more like a relationship, and that I really didn't know where it was going, but I needed to find out. I did assure him that I would never leave him for J, and that I know for a fact is a hard and fast feeling that will not change.

But I do need to play this out for multiple reasons. B swears it's J that he does not like, not the idea of my having another man in my life. But since this is the first time I've done this, I sort of think it's more than that. And B, to his credit, is letting me run with this and desperately trying to trust my judgment.

If things with J are meant to be, he'll be there when you and B are sorted. Not suggesting you stop contact, but, very firm boundaries for now. Give a time period if you need to. But B needs you to put him first for a bit, and he needs you to know what you're doing, and so do you.

Thankfully we have the entire month of December as a natural boundary. We have no contact planned till 1/8/11.

Sadly, I really don't see me figuring this out till after that, however.

J might not care what B is feeling, but J should care what you are feeling, and it's not ok for him to ignore the stress he is putting you through.

I think he does care, to some extent.. I think his comment might have been more along the lines of, "I don't care what B feels about me, since I'm not having a relationship with him. I'm having one with you." That was what I got from it. Basically, "Yeah, B exists, and he's your husband, but he's not my husband, and not my boyfriend, and therefore his feelings do not impact my feelings." But they do, because, "If B feels bad and he needs me to stop with you, dude, I will do that. How's that for impact?"

When, in our last big talk, B said, "Choose... I know who you'll choose," I said, "Okay, I choose you. Now we are done with the lifestyle and this whole mess," and I meant it. I would have totally walked away from all of it. B said, "No, that's not what I want. I just don't want you with him." *deep sigh*

Tell J to give you time/space/whatever you need to sort things out with B. If J ignores your need to do that, I doubt he is going to understand that B will always be there, and will always be a priority in your mind.

He gives me plenty of time and space, truly, without my even asking. It's part of what makes him so perfect for what I need in my life. He's busy. He has his own life. He does not need me. It's good, and totally opposite of B. He needs me.

I think that makes sense...

It does. You're helping a lot! Thanks.

 

[FlameKat]

Glad to know I am helping. In a lot of ways, we are in the same situation, except I am at the point where I no longer am able to have any communication with T, and K feels the way B does, except K is not letting me run with it. He has baggage and I am trying to be so very respectful, but it's such a hard slog. I feel as though I am compromising myself and my integrity by not running with it, at least to the extent of exploring openly with T where those feelings go.

I get the impression that K and T were much closer friends than B and J, as it was T who broke off communication with us, ironically to protect our, mine and K's, relationship. Hopefully we will start moving forward soon.

Anyway, lots of talking is key. I didn't talk enough and I didn't face myself soon enough. Whether or not it is repairable is something I long to find out.

 

[whatamIdoing]

Glad to know I am helping. In a lot of ways, we are in the same situation, except I am at the point where I no longer am able to have any communication with T, and K feels the way B does...

Anyway, lots of talking is key. I didn't talk enough and I didn't face myself soon enough. Whether or not it is repairable is something I long to find out.

Hugs to you, my friend.

I think B feels he has no choice but to let me run. B and J knew each other, but very very casually. They are not friends, just from the gaming circles, as most of our crowd knows J.

 

[FlameKat]

Not sure how to explore this alone. I know B and I are talking and trying to figure it out, but what about J? Does he have a right to be part of this learning process?

Unfortunately for B, I think the only way of really finding out about your emotions and how you feel is for J to be a part of the process. He is triggering the feelings and confusion. You can't really truly get down into that part of you without that input.

At least, I can't. I would have gone on quite happily thinking I was mono if T hadn't come along and stirred up all sorts of feelings in me. K likes to say it was exactly the same as when I met him. I got involved helping him sort out some emotional stuff and fell hard, and did the same with T. That's fine, and quite spot-on, but I have helped others just as deeply and passionately and I haven't fallen for them. Losing T pinpointed exactly how I felt, made it hard to hide it from myself or K. Actually, K had it figured out long before I did. But because I didn't want to recognise it and hid it from myself, and therefore believed that I just loved T as close family, K was more than happy to let it go. Big mistake.

Anyway, long story short, do the hard work and really look hard at what J brings out in you. Be honest about it. If it's love then you will know. If its not love but something close, you will figure that out too. Push yourself to really know yourself, and then be honest about it.

 

[whatamIdoing]

Unfortunately for B - I think the only way of really finding out about your emotions and how you feel is for J to be a part of the process - he is triggering the feelings and confusion... you can't really truly get down into that part of you without that input...

At least - I can't... I would have gone on quite happily thinking I was mono if T hadn't come along and stirred up all sorts of feelings in me (K likes to say it was exactly the same as when I met him - I got involved helping him sort out some emotional stuff and fell hard... and did the same with T... thats fine and quite spot on but... I have helped others just as deeply and passionately and I haven't fallen for them....) losing T, pinpointed exactly how I felt... made it hard to hide it from myself or K... actually K had it figured out long before I did... but because I didn't want to recognise it and hid it from myself, and therefore believed that I just loved him (T) as close family... K was more than happy to let it go... big mistake.

Anyway, long story short - do the hard work and really look hard at what J brings out in you... be honest about it... if it's love then you will know, if its not love but something close, you will figure that out too... push yourself to really know yourself and then be honest about it...

We really are so much alike.

B says that my eyes light up when I talk about J, and I don't see that. I know I have a severe case of NRE... but my eyes light up? He says he wants my eyes to light up when I think of him. They do. He just can't see it anymore.

I'm not sure I would "let myself" love J, while knowing that we can choose what we do but we can't choose how we feel.

 

[FlameKat]

I have to admit that if I let it, I would be in major NRE about T, even without any communication. How's that for completely sad and insane? Especially as he had never been clear on his feelings for me.

One of the problems that K has with T is how I react to them. He says that when I was talking with T, T would get the 'happy me' giggles and games, while he (K) was talking to me (the same day, even same hour), he would get the serious, hurting me.

I explain that we are through our honeymoon period, that we were at the time dealing with some pretty fucking huge stresses in our life-- a major custody case (I was representing myself) which included relocation laws, etc. T knew of all of this and would redirect my attention to fun stuff to cheer me up (after all, I had spent a year cheering him up ). Whereas, when I had time with K, I had to work on the legal work. I had to deal with stresses, otherwise I would have gone bananas. I trusted K to see the hurt and pain in full view. I didn't have to squash it down.

Maybe I stuffed it up a bit, and put too much fun on T, and too much serious on K. I should have split it up more evenly. Bad judgement on my part. I did a lot wrong.

Mum says I do everything the hard way.

 

[whatamIdoing]

Oh, I can go a week without any contact from J and I'm like 16 all over again. I just don't doodle his name on my notebook.

B is my heart and my soul. Yet he has such low self esteem it's hard to get him to see that. But yeah, we deal with the money problems and the kid problems. (Mine are grown, but my oldest at 26 is in a group home for emotionally disturbed adults, while his 18 yr old daughter's boyfriend has moved in with us.) So I get the uglies from marriage, and J offers me fun and games and flirtation and joy.

I look at B and I want him and I love him and I feel a slow burning warmth that will never die. I look at J (well, his mind, at least) and I'm on freaking fire. Yeah, I see that's part of the issue. J was not a physical thing. He's not my type and I'm not his. Ours is pure brain chemistry.

 

[FlameKat]

J was not a physical thing. He's not my type and I'm not his. Ours is pure brain chemistry...

Mindmelt
Soulmelt

That's what I feel for both of them.

Physical touch is how I express love. When I can't express physically I go all gooey and supportive. Given that both T and K are LDRs for me (they live in same town, and I am on other side of bloody world; I visit once a year), they get the mind melt a whole lot more than anything else.

T and I have met in person twice, in K's company, last year, that's it. K pushed for us to start talking before that. He and T were best friends, and I was his girl.

What a mess.

 

[whatamIdoing]

Mindmelt
Soulmelt

thats what I feel for both of them. Physical touch is how I express love, when I can't express physically I go all gooey and supportive. Given that both T and K are LDRs for me (they live in same town and I am on other side of bloody world; I visit once a year) they get the mind melt a whole lot more than anything else. T and I have met in person twice, in K's company, last year. K pushed for us to start talking before that.. He and T were best friends, and I was his girl. What a mess.

Oh wow! Your mess is MESSY. I am so so sorry for your pain.

I'm amazed that this thread is finally about what I really need it to be about. LOL

I am scared that J feeds my brain. B can't do that, for various reasons. J can. J makes me think. B makes it easy. J is a challenge.

I guess I need to add this: I've known J nearly 2 years, but he can't remember me, because when I met him I was nearly 300 pounds. I've had gastric bypass (so has B) and I'm down over 120 pounds from my heaviest. And while B loved me fat and loves me thin, J only has THIN as his frame of reference for me. Even pictures of me from that time don't jog his memory of me. Even with that, I'm still not his type, physically.

 

[FlameKat]

I've known J nearly 2 years, but he can't remember me, because when I met him I was nearly 300 pounds. I've had gastric bypass and I'm down over 120 pounds from my heaviest. While B loved me fat and loves me thin, J only has THIN as his frame of reference for me. Even pictures of me from that time don't jog his memory of me. I'm still not his type, physically.

If you aren't his type physically, and he is still intent on pursuing you, that would suggest to me that there is some quite serious emotion on his side. Of course, not knowing him, that is just my personal opinion. But in my experience, when you are outside of the "ideal," and still being pursued, then there are definite connections there.

Well, at least you know B is going to stick with you through thick and thin. (Sorry, it was begging for a giggle moment. )

Really, you need to sort out yourself, then you and B, then you and J. Hopefully B and J will come to terms on their own as you become settled and stable.

 

[whatamIdoing]

If you aren't his type physically, and he is still intent on pursuing you, that would suggest to me that there is some quite serious emotion on his side. Of course, not knowing him, that is just my personal opinion. But in my experience, when you are outside of the "ideal" and still being pursued then there are definite connections there.

At least you know B is going to stick with you through thick and thin. (Sorry, it was begging for a giggle moment. )

Really, you need to sort out yourself, then you and B, then you and J. Hopefully B and J will come to terms on their own as you become settled and stable.

You are cute!

Ya know, you hit it. The key. I really do get why B is scared. I'm not J's type at all, and he's made that clear. When he said he did not find me physically attractive, B almost shot across the table to kill him. I get it, because when I look at B, without him opening his mouth, he's my type physically. But when I look at J, I sort of cringe at the thought of it, because he's so not my type physically, but his personality and his brain draw me in.

I know where I am with myself. I know where I am with B.

It's just figuring out where I am with J, and where J is with me (not that he knows, either), and then having B and J work it out.

 

[FlameKat]

You are cute!

Aw, shucks. lol Someone had to think that eventually.

I get why B is scared. I'm not J's type at all, and he's made that clear. When he said he did not find me physically attractive, B almost shot across the table to kill him.

This raises red flags for me. Not sure exactly why, but there you go.

When I look at J, I sort of cringe at the thought of it, because he's so not my type physically. but his personality and his brain draw me in.

Maybe the physical side of things should be taken off the table. If he is not your type, and you are not his type, develop the friendship. Maybe leave the possibility of physical relations open, but off to the side until/if you are both comfortable.

Yours is just as messy, just in a different way. lol

 

[whatamIdoing]

You hit it. I really do get why B is scared. I'm not J's type at all, and he's made that clear. When he said he did not find me physically attractive, B almost shot across the table to kill him.

This raises red flags for me, not sure exactly why...

Which part? B being insanely insulted that another man does not think I'm a shining goddess like he does? Or J actually voicing his lack of physical attraction to me?

Yours is just as messy, just in a different way.

Different messes... same crazy feelings.

 

[FlameKat]

I think the part where J is quite happy to voice his lack of physical attraction for you, in front of the man who is your partner and hurting so badly about him wanting to have a relationship with you. Sheer and utter disrespect, in my opinion.

 

[whatamIdoing]

The part where J is quite happy to voice his lack of physical attraction for you, in front of the man who is your partner and hurting so badly about him wanting to have a relationship with you. Sheer and utter disrespect, in my opinion.

My take on it is more like honesty, since I had said to him already that I had no clue why I wanted this since he was not physically attractive to me. I think we are past that point. I think that was the first hashings of figuring out how and why and what we wanted to do. A mad dance to define that this was not a mad physical passion.

I need J to know that I need an emotional connection to my partners, even in swinging. B knows that I never sleep with guys on the first meeting. We have one friend who waited a year for me to be ready.