Trust and fluid bonding

Q

Qarzan

New member
Hello, everyone,

I've been a member of this forum for quite a few years, and I post every now and again. This is something that I got news of just this evening, about 4 hours ago. I'm looking for a place to write down my thoughts and feelings. Also if you have any experiences similar to mine, how did it end up and why? What did you learn from it?

I'll start from the beginning, because that's the best place to start.

I started seeing a new partner (GF) about 3 months ago. We are super compatible in many many different ways: she thinks I'm hilarious; we're both non-hierarchical polyamorous; we are amazing communicators; the sex is absolutely mind-blowing, for both of us.

About 2 weeks in, we both get tested, we're both clean.

About 2 months in, we discussed fluid bonding and what it means. She chooses to get an IUD so that we can be fluid bonded.

She started seeing someone new (MA, "MetAmour") about 1 month ago, the same week she got the IUD. She lets me know she's going to have sex with him. I ask if she's asked about his STD status. She says, "yes," and he was all negative. And they're going to use condoms. Great! So far, so good.

About one week ago, they had sex and the condom broke. And then she tells me that he hadn't been tested in the past two years, and has been fluid bonded with other partners since then.

At that point, I was nervous, anxious. I started asking clarifying questions, and my tone had her feel like I was shaming her. I was asking things like, "So, you knew he hadn't been tested in two years, and he's been fluid bonded with people in that time, and you still chose to have sex with him?" This was beyond my comfort zone. Over time, though, I accepted that it was an accident, they didn't intend for it to happen, they meant to wear the condom and it just broke.

Ok, ok, get tested. Let's be careful for now and everyone use condoms, including me and GF. His test results come back: all negative. Her test results come back: all negative. Phew.

GF then brings up fluid bonding with both me and MA. I get suspicious. Why hadn't he been tested for two years, especially if he was fluid bonded with other people and identifies as non-monogamous? This seems so irresponsible to me, and not something I wanted to encounter. But GF has the goal of being fluid bonded with both of us, so I continue the conversation.

A few days ago, MA tells us he tested positive for HSV 2. He had to push for the test. My choice becomes really easy: I'm not willing to be fluid bonded with GF if she is also fluid bonded with MA. GF is sad, but wants to continue the conversation to see what we can all mutually agree to. GF agrees to use condoms with everyone until an agreement is reached.

GF, MA, and I have brunch together and discuss fluid bonding. We reassure each other that we all value keeping our word to any agreements we make. They are going out that evening to a sex party. I wish them a good time. GF says she will be using condoms with everyone.

Four hours ago, GF calls me and tells me she had unprotected sex with MA at the sex party. Intentionally. As in, they knew it was against their agreements with me, but they "got caught up in the moment" and went forward with it anyway.

There are so many things coming up for me right now: betrayal, breach of trust, anger, frustration... it's hard for me to sort through all of it.

GF says she knows she fucked up. I told her she broke her word to me. Integrity is the foundation of trust, trust is the foundation of a working relationship.

GF says she still wants to stay with me. I still love her and care about her, but my trust is broken with her. My trust is also broken with MA, who also knew the agreement was in place and didn't stop. This happened later on the same day he told me how much he considered himself to be "a man of his word."

I totally went into a phase of questioning absolutely everything they've told me. Does she really love me? Does she actually care about me? Does he really actually honor his word and do what he says? I couldn't trust anything any more.

One person said to me once, "We teach people how to treat us by what we tolerate, and what we don't tolerate." Part of me feels like if I keep the relationship with GF, I'll just be showing her that it's okay to break her word to me. And it'll be easier for her, and other people around me, to do it again.

On the other hand, I love her to pieces. I want to have things work. We're all human and we all make mistakes. It's how we learn. Am I going to be righteous and throw away basically what is the best relationship I've had in my entire life?

My mind keeps flip-flopping between these two.
1) Thinking that this is a severe breach in my trust, and there's no recovering; or
2) Everything can be repaired and rebuilt; strong relationships are created from pulling through situations like this.

I'm really lost right now, and would like to hear other people's similar situations. Or maybe just words of empathy and acceptance. That'd be nice, too.
 
I'm sorry, Qarzan. That is rough. Your feelings are completely understandable. I've not been through this situation but I was with a man who was HSV-2+ for a while after my divorce. He didn't tell me until after we'd stopped having sex and were no longer together. I'm not sure that I could have worked through that betrayal if we'd still been together. Not that it matters, but I do still test negative.

As for your gf, how trustworthy is she in other areas? Or, is she kind of flaky in other areas, too? If so, is that (the flakiness) something you could live with? As for teaching people how to treat us, I do agree with that, but not so much in a punitive way as in how we treat others, ourselves, and how we handle our own boundaries. I'm thinking if you otherwise wish to maintain the relationship, maybe your boundary could be just that you always practice safer sex with gf. If so, I'd figure out what exactly that means for you (condoms, dental dams, hard copies of test results, etc.), communicate it clearly, and then be consistent.
 
Hi PinkPig, thank you so much for your reply. It really helped me consider things I hadn't before.

It is relieving to hear that you're still negative for HSV2.

Yes, for me there was a lot of betrayal.

To answer your question, she is very trustworthy in other areas. Like I said, we are excellent communicators, both with our emotions and reactions, and also with being on time and honoring our word. You asking me this question really showed me that this one thing was an outlier in an otherwise amazing relationship.

I'm 100% willing to continue it now. Something came up that has me shifting my perspective on what's happening here:
1) There were some thoughts and feelings attached to fluid bonding, like it was some kind of special status. This situation had me really examine what fluid bonding meant to me, and question whether or not fluid bonding is actually necessary for a deeper emotional connection. My conclusion: it is not.

2) This situation brought up a lot of crap for me: feelings of jealousy, inadequacy, fear of abandonment, lots of other things. I relate to this experience as kind of like putting an impure hunk of metal into a crucible in order to purify it. Under heat of the fire, the impurities rise to the top and are incinerated. Afterwards, what's left is more pure than what went in.

All the crap came to the surface. A lot of it was ugly, anxious, jealous. I feel more settled and peaceful now that I'm pretty much on the other side. I think there are still some smaller things left in there that are still coming up (hey, it's been less than 24 hours since she told me), and I've told her that I will ask for what I need in order to clear them when they do.
 
My ex-husband had spontaneous, unprotected sex with a new person. I was in shock for a while, especially since I knew that that new person had a husband that previously had had other sexual partners, etc. I found it very disturbing that they were so careless about protection. While their relationship did not last, a big part of the reason for that was that I insisted that this was a huge red flag and that I expected different behaviour from both of them, to ensure my physical and mental health as part of their chain.

Even if you don't attach a special status to fluid bonding, fluid bonding in a circle of untested (or having tested positive for STDs) people, is physically risky. It sounds to me that your partner is a bit of a risktaker and that her newest partner encourages this side of her. Those things seem sort of cute when you are smitten, but it is very damaging behaviour.

You are focused on her and the degree of forgiveness, when the problem at hand is really that the guy she sleeps with acts irresponsible and actively helps her to break agreements she made with you for your protection. That is very different from her losing her head with a random new guy. First he misinforms her/you about his sexual health, then he breaks the condom contract. You need to have a long hard look at if this guy is someone you want to be in a sexual chain with. Your jealousy is the least of your problems if this guy gives you an STD.
 
Qarzan, it says a lot about you that you are being so forgiving in this. However, please remember that she did break your trust. The old phrase, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

She really needs to make amends. I'm not calling this a dealbreaker by any means, but there is some trust that must be earned back. She has some work to do.

I'm HSV2 (and, to this day, have not figured out where I got it from), and my husband, after 8 years, has still tested clean. The only thing is that condom use won't always protect you, as lesions can be in areas that aren't covered by a condom. Do some research on HSV2, not for the purpose of being alarmed and paranoid, but for the purpose of education.

I wish you well.
 
Whether he's a "man of his word" or not doesn't matter. He's not the one you're in a relationship with. She's the one responsible for her actions. And twice in a single month, she has broken your trust.

I would end the relationship. I wouldn't be able to trust her after she broke an explicit agreement that she knew was important to me. Especially on top of her saying that she knew his STD status, but was either lying, or failed to mention that that status was that he hadn't tested in years. Just... no.
 
Hi Qarzan,

I suppose you could just automatically use a condom with your girlfriend from now on ... Past that, I don't know what to suggest. Sorry this has happened, I know this relationship with her means a lot to you.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
 
powerpuffgrl1969 said:
Qarzan, it says a lot about you that you are being so forgiving in this. However, please remember that she did break your trust. The old phrase, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

She really needs to make amends. I'm not calling this a dealbreaker by any means, but there is some trust that must be earned back. She has some work to do.

I'm HSV2 (and, to this day, have NOT figured out where I got it from), and my husband, after 8 years, has still tested clean. The only thing is that condom use won't always protect you, as lesions can be in areas that aren't covered by a condom. Do some research on HSV2, not for the purpose of being alarmed and paranoid, but for the purpose of education.

I wish you well.
Click to expand...

Yes, she did break my trust, but only once. When she chose to have sex with him (when the condom broke), the only request that I had made of her is to ask about his STD test results and when he was tested. That was all. There was nothing in the request about how recent the test needed to be. Yes, it was outside my comfort zone. No, I didn't make it clear to her that it was.

So, she broke my trust once. I'm willing to continue.
 
kdt26417 said:
Hi Qarzan,

I suppose you could just automatically use a condom with your girlfriend from now on ... Past that, I don't know what to suggest. Sorry this has happened, I know this relationship with her means a lot to you.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
Click to expand...

Yes, we've chosen to continue using condoms. I'm learning to grow into the idea that her relationship with MA, whether or not they're using condoms, in comparison to me, really doesn't have much to do with GF's relationship with me. Yes, there's the health consideration, but I'm releasing the idea that if she's fluid bonded with him and not with me, then she's not as emotionally connected to me. Also, she has told me that it doesn't mean that to her anymore. This means it did mean that to her before in past relationships, but now in this situation she sees that just because she's fluid bonded with MA and not me, she sees that fluid bonding and "priority" level of the relationship are not intertwined.

She loves me, and is willing to continue. And she's willing to put the time and energy into building things up again. That's what counts.
 
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GF is coming over in half an hour. We spent a few days apart. She wasn't sleeping well and needed to take care of herself. We cancelled a date we had planned so that she could do this.

This afternoon, I called her like she asked me to, so we could plan out our time. She needed to go home and work out. She usually does this regularly, but hadn't done it in the past few days because of the stress of our situation. I knew she needed this in order to feel normal. She's coming over at 8. She said, "We should talk."

Her messages since this morning have had a neutral tone, no hearts and no kisses like there normally are. I sensed it right away. I feel like she's coming over to break up with me.

Something that's going through my head: why would she go through all that trouble of talking me through the situation, telling me she loves me, listening to my hurt feelings, getting me back, just to break up with me now?

Granted, she hasn't arrived yet, I still don't know what she wants to talk about. I guess I'll keep an open mind and post an update here afterwards.
 
Hi Qarzan,

It seems a shame to me if you were to break up. You seem willing to forgive the break of trust with this issue and she seems genuinely sorry. If her new partner is not good for her, I'm sure she'll work that out on her own once the NRE fades.

I say it's a shame if you were to break up because you're both non-heirarchical polyamorous and you've said your sex is absolutely mind-blowing. Hopefully you can transition instead to something that is less stressful. If you find you can't trust her whilst she's with this new partner, maybe it's just going to be condoms for now.

Hope your meeting with her goes well. Good luck!
 
The meeting went well! We're back together, love and trust restored. We're cuddly and adorable with each other again.

There were some things I said that she took to mean I didn't care about her, like, "Love matters most when it's the last thing you want to do."

She asked, "Is it the last thing you want to do?"

I replied, "It was very difficult."

She took this to mean I didn't want to love her, that I actually don't love her, and I'm just faking it the whole way.

I clarified that what it meant was:
- It refers to the past, when we were on the phone and she told me about the incident at the sex party; it was very difficult to see love through the anger and betrayal at that point;
- Even if I can't see it, I will continue taking the actions of a loving person, because my commitment to loving her is greater than a momentary lapse in my feelings.

There were other things, small miscommunications, that she understood differently than how I meant them. We put some structures in place:
- If she hears something that she interprets in a negative way, instead of "trying to let it go" and not bring it up, she will ask about it so I have an opportunity to clarify;
- If I notice her shrinking away after I've said something (because I can and do notice those things), I will ask her what's going on. She also said that she might say something like, "I'm fine," and that means I should keep asking. I will tell her, "I'm digging," which is a reminder to her of this agreement, that I'm noticing something that may require clarification.

With these in place, we're back in a space of clear communication and trust in each others' words again. We had amazing sex. She even told me that because MA is pretty new to polyamory, she trusts me to be supportive of her relationship with him. I took it as an honor that she would trust me that way with another person she cares so much about.

I'm all in. So is she. It's full-steam ahead now.
 
They broke up, mix of emotions.

GF and MA had a date scheduled for last night. I just got a text from GF this morning saying that they broke up. I'm swimming in a mix of emotions right now:

1) Relief, that I don't have this new person to adjust to any more;
2) Sadness, that GF is now sad, and I know how much of herself she poured into that relationship;
3) Caring and nurturing instinct, I want to have her feel loved and cared for.

The center of it, I'm guessing from his point of view, was around scheduling. He wanted to "break free" from scheduling things, it made him feel bound. He never scheduled anything with her, just last-minute texting, "Hey, do you want to hang out tonight?"

I'm very much a scheduler. So is she. It's what we love about each other: making sure we set aside time for the things and people that matter to us.

He was frustrated that it seemed like she never had time for him; whenever he asked to just "hang out," she'd say no, because she had scheduled plans with me or her other lover (I'll call him MA2).

And his resistance to scheduling things meant that MA2 and I always ended up having more time with GF than MA did, because we planned things out by a few weeks.

Anyway, I wanted a place to sort through my feelings. I may post more as things come up. Thank you all for being a place where I can do this!
 
I guess it's good that MA is out of the picture, though I doubt GF feels good about it. Be there for her, with a listening ear and a shoulder to cry on if she needs it, but also let her have some space if she needs it. She is probably self-conscious that you'll be more pleased about the breakup than she is.
 
I'd say what Kevin said, except I would have used a whole page. Thanks Kevin! ;)
 
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Honestly, threads like this are why I'm glad I just use condoms for all PIV sex with all partners, and most of the time for oral.
 
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