Trust issues

[Cee]

This is a long one, bear with me.

I’ve been in a non-monogamous relationship with my boyfriend Felix for a year and a half (together for 3). The relationship has been more polyamorous on my end and more open on his end, but neither of us have had any notable physical action going on besides some kissing and making out (in public with our clothes on). I fell in love with someone else a year ago, but it didn’t work out because she was already in a relationship and after negotiations her partner didn’t want to go poly. They stayed together.

Felix cheated on me almost 2 years ago while we were on a break of sorts, but still sleeping with each other and under an agreement that we’d tell each other of any new dating situations and when I found out, lied about what happened multiple times (trickle truth). Although the situation was blurry (and we were stupid to even go there), I still consider it cheating because he broke the agreement we had and lied to me about it. We went through hell and back, fixed our trust issues and decided to be fully together and open under the premise that anything is possible, as long as it’s negotiated, agreed upon and we tell each other the absolute truth.

Last weekend Felix went on an overnight trip that included alcohol consumption with a friend (Susan) who he’s very attracted to (and she is to him) and another platonic friend (Tom). I asked before the trip what the sleeping arrangements were going to be and he said he’ll most likely be sleeping in the same room with Tom and that he doesn’t think anything is going to happen with Susan. Before this trip, he had been telling me that nothing further (there had been some kissing before) is ever likely to happen with him and Susan, since Susan can’t do open relationships. I trusted his assessment on the situation and because of what he told me, I didn’t think I needed to get deeper into the matter and discuss what I was comfortable with. My mistake, that I fully accept responsibility for. We have an agreement in place of no sex before we check with each other first on how each of us really feels about the possibility (because we’re still pretty new to this and I want to take it slow on that). While he was away, he kept messaging me all night (in a very good spirit) and I thought that he obviously wasn’t very interested in her since he’s not even giving her his full attention.

When he came back from the trip, he told me that he had slept naked in the same bed with Susan and they had spooned each other all night with the blanket in between and kissing each other and that they talked about the possibility of sex being back on the table again but he had told her that he needed to check with me first on how I feel about it, so they didn’t actually have sex. I sincerely thought I had dealt with the whole cheating thing in my mind, but all of the trust issues and feeling sick to my stomach came surging back. I felt like I was blindsided with the whole thing, with him telling me nothing was likely to happen (and well yeah, sex didn’t, but that to me wasn’t “nothing”) and if I had known he was planning to sleep naked together with her, I would have told him I wasn’t ok with that yet, not on that trip. With all the trickle truth from before where this exact situation (telling me they just slept together but nothing happed) was one of the things he lied about I would have much rather given the full ok for the sex when I was ready than having to now think whether he’s lying to me again or telling me the truth. It’s a full on flashback. I keep bouncing back and forth with “He has gone above and beyond to fix our trust issues for the past year and a half and I have no reason not to trust the person he is now” and “He lied to me about this exact same situation before, he might as well be lying to me now”. My mind keeps telling me there is no way that two people who are very attracted to each other just sleep in the same bed naked while being intoxicated and nothing except for some kissing happens. He knows fully well that I consider genital touching with someone (be it our own or someone elses) sex. It is awfully risky to get in a situation like that and he fully admits that had she started touching him in some way, they would have been having sex and he wouldn’t have even had the strength to pull away. I feel like he was THIS close to cheating on me again, or he might actually have already but is just lying to me. Again.

I take full responsibility for the fact that I didn’t properly communicate what I was ok with but I sincerely didn’t think I had to. Lesson learned I guess. I also feel like he should have communicated with me better on where he’s at currently with her, and rather than telling me nothing was going to happen, tell me he doesn’t know and that he’s keeping his options open. That would have given me the incentive to tell him what I was ok with on my end. I feel a bit stupid even, since during the time he was away, I felt genuinely happy in the fact that I now trust him 100% and if he says nothing is going to happen (except for some kissing, which I was fine with), nothing will and I have no reason to worry about anything, and so I didn’t. I was happy and proud of us, that we had gotten past our trust issues and that I fully trusted him again. Now I’m not so sure anymore. I also feel stupid in thinking that nothing like this was going to happen on an overnight trip with alcohol involved. Should have I known better? Should have he?

Now he’s saying that he doesn’t think he wants to be non-monogamous on his end anymore, since he is inevitably going to fuck up again and he just doesn’t have the bandwith to deal with my limitations on him (which I don’t think are unreasonable at this point) and the consequences of me being upset. He says I’m too controlling, which I admit I can be, especially when trust is broken, cause it’s a defence mechanism that I think is actually very understandable under those circumstances, when I feel like the ground beneath my feet is shattering. I also admit that getting very little sleep will make anyone frustrated and we’ve been talking 2 nights in a row now (yeah, I have some anxiety issues). He says he’d much rather deal with me being upset about issues in our relationship and not about someone else. I feel like this IS an issue in our relationship, it just involves that someone else, but that someone else is not the real problem, trust in our relationship is. I feel like him giving up on non-monogamy is a cop-out that puts the blame on me. I also admit that him being monogamous scares me, because I’m afraid it will just make him bitter and resentful of my relationships with other people. I do admit though, that he has always been the more monogamous one and he says he’s perfectly happy with only me, that he doesn’t really feel like he needs anyone or anything else anyway, but that he’s also ok with me having other relationships.

Now that I know that sex with them is back on the table (he says he still might go there but is just not so sure anymore) and we have talked about it, I have given him my ok with it, but I’m not so sure that’s a good idea anymore either, since the trust issues are back. I just feel like they should just go and get it over with, so that I wouldn’t have to worry about whether they already did it or not, but I know that’s mainly my frustration talking. I am curious though, on how we both would feel about it and handle it afterwards.

I could use an outside opinion on all of this. Am I too controlling? Is he untrustworthy and blame-shifting? We certainly should have communicated better, I do know that.

 

[vinsanity0]

Hi, and welcome. Since you asked some direct questions, I will be direct with my answers.

I don't know if you are a controlling person. The whole checking in thing before having sex, and similar rules, is a means of control though.

Having lots of rules put in place by one's partner makes it difficult to have any sort of relationship. It's not surprising Felix feels too restricted. Plus, he probably sees, or at least suspects, that you are not ready for poly. At any rate, he initially agreed to the rules, but sees in practice they are too restrictive for him. So now he is thinking about opting out on his end. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

On your end it seems to me that you need to decide if you actually want an open relationship or not. Why do you have the need to make rules like that?

Communication is important and awesome. However, there is no way to see into the future. I suspect Felix may have had no intentions of doing anything. That can change in a moment's notice. Such is the nature of humans.

My answers come from personal experience, ymmv, etc.

 

[Cee]

Thank you for your answer, vinsanity0!

Sex is a big deal to me. I understand it's not so with Felix and I understand that these rules might feel restrictive. Especially having sex with someone else for the first time since we've been non-monogamous is a big deal to me and I'd like to have a little warning before things are headed to that direction so that it's not sprung up on me. I don't need to know the exact time it happens, but I would like to know if sex with a new person will be on the table or not, so that we can discuss about it and I can prepare myself for the feelings that might come up afterwards and I don't think that's unreasonable for me to ask, since we haven't done this before. I suspect that in time when and if I can see that we both are able to handle it, these rules will serve no purpose anymore. Aside from using a condom, this is pretty much the only rule we have. It's about keeping each other on the loop and knowing where each of us is at.

I do understand your point though and I think I need to look into my need for all of this a bit more.

 

[Tinwen]

I feel like this IS an issue in our relationship, it just involves that someone else, but that someone else is not the real problem, trust in our relationship is.

I agree on that.

I understand that you are upset. You feel threatened by the perceived lack of responsibility. You feel like if he does such things, he's going to slip into cheating. And maybe the fear is justified.
At the same time, give him some credit for actually keeping the agreement that you do have.

I'd like to have a little warning before things are headed to that direction so that it's not sprung up on me.

Take a few days to calm down, talk about the trust issue. THEN consider the option that he's going to have sex with Susan. Him telling you about their night is pretty much the warning you've asked for.
It's unfortunate that he misled you before the trip, but think about it. How would he know if she's up for intimacy? How else would he know sex is on the table, if there was no physical interaction with the girl beforehand? That's the dynamics of relationships.

I disagree with Vinsanity, in that I think that the rule of discussing the possibility of sex with a new person in advance might be a sensible rule to keep up for a while. It would be a big deal for me as well. But anything beyond that... setting expectations for all steps of the process of getting intimate... yeah, that kills outside relationships.

 

[ElMango]

I sincerely thought I had dealt with the whole cheating thing in my mind, but all of the trust issues and feeling sick to my stomach came surging back.
...
I feel like he was THIS close to cheating on me again, or he might actually have already but is just lying to me. Again.

If something we perceive as cheating happens, then of course these feelings will come back. But, it also shows that we maybe haven't resolved all of those issues to the fullest, as we had thought we had.

I could use an outside opinion on all of this. Am I too controlling? Is he untrustworthy and blame-shifting? We certainly should have communicated better, I do know that.

I think that the rules, as they are, aren't working. (I'm not saying that he shouldn't have followed them as he agreed to them. You bring up issues, you don't just as forgiveness.) I am also not someone who feels drunk is an excuse for major transgressions. We all know our drunk personalities.

In the end, rule/boundary changing (for me at least) means really figuring out where the rule is stemming from. Is there a way to fix the underlying cause, so it allows the rule to be different or gone? Are there some crossed wires we didn't know we had?

Controlling can come from a fear or insecurity, it sounds like the rules weren't much different before the cheating as to the after, what makes you want these rules to start with?

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

If you view it that sex could potentially be on the table with anyone given that you've made yourselves available to other people, it might help you feel as if you aren't blindsided when he discloses a new sexual encounter or relationship. So, Felix might go to a party next week and meet someone he doesn't even know exists at this point, and they might have sex that night. Any feelings that provokes, deal with those now or at least develop coping mechanisms for when they do happen now so they are ready for when he discloses.

Felix sounds like an "in the moment" guy so not the ideal fit for a something that restricts spontaneity and chemistry. When people aren't the ideal fit for some rule or restriction, they end up bending or breaking it, often to their own disadvantage. Lifting that rule might mean that he is less likely to elicit that feeling of betrayal in you and mean you're more likely to trust him.

 

[17642990gk294]

My former metamour felt a lot like you and put a lot of pressure on me and my partner to communicate when intimate "milestones" were made (first kiss, first making out, first base, second base, first stayover,...).
While I understood her (and I belive I understand your ) whish for transparency, it made it very hard for me to develop any kind of intimacy with my partner - you can't plan kisses or sex or so like an appointment. Then whenever it got a little more intimate we both got awkward and nervous about the "third person", whose approval was needed for us to proceed.

So to me, this story actually does sound a little like you are trying to control the pace and monitore the ways in which your partner develops new (physical) relationships. And I do belive that it might be too much to ask of a partner and of their potential partner to include you in all their steps. Non-monogamous relationships often entail that there will be the potential of sex with others and that you need to trust your partner to love and apprecciate you even when he is having (unmonitored) time and intimacy with others.

Felix said he wouldn't have sex with Susan yet and - if you trust him - you'll have to beliveve him he didn't. Everything else should be between the two of them.
Ask yourself if you would be okay with him saying "Ok, starting now I can say that I will probably sleep with Susan in the near future."? Becasue in my opinion, you are not entiteled to more information than that [EDIT: Except of course things concerning e.g. safe sex]
Does Susan know he discusses how she spent her night with him with you?
Is she aware that you hold some kind of "veto" to the way their relationship proceeeds?

 

[vinsanity0]

I disagree with Vinsanity, in that I think that the rule of discussing the possibility of sex with a new person in advance might be a sensible rule to keep up for a while. It would be a big deal for me as well. But anything beyond that... setting expectations for all steps of the process of getting intimate... yeah, that kills outside relationships.

She's had a year and a half to prepare herself for the possibility of him having sex with someone else. I have to admit this is a strange concept to me. What does being open even mean then? For me it has always meant we are going to go out with other people and most likely have sex with them. I can't imagine someone agreeing to be open if they are going to have a problem with their partner having sex with others. To me, agreeing to be open means you have already come to grips with that.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

She's had a year and a half to prepare herself for the possibility of him having sex with someone else. I have to admit this is a strange concept to me. What does being open even mean then? For me it has always meant we are going to go out with other people and most likely have sex with them. I can't imagine someone agreeing to be open if they are going to have a problem with their partner having sex with others. To me, agreeing to be open means you have already come to grips with that.

I think this quote refers to what you're pondering:

The relationship has been more polyamorous on my end and more open on his end, but neither of us have had any notable physical action going on besides some kissing and making out (in public with our clothes on). I fell in love with someone else a year ago, but it didn’t work out because she was already in a relationship and after negotiations her partner didn’t want to go poly. They stayed together. The relationship has been more polyamorous on my end and more open on his end, but neither of us have had any notable physical action going on besides some kissing and making out (in public with our clothes on). I fell in love with someone else a year ago, but it didn’t work out because she was already in a relationship and after negotiations her partner didn’t want to go poly. They stayed together

When I read "more polyamorous on my end and more open on his end", I assumed that he has casual sexual relationships and encounters (or tends to) and the OP has more entangled relationships (emotional and sexual intimacy). I was surprised to learn that neither had gone past 2nd base yet the OP had been "in love" with someone else. Of course, the asexual spectrum exists, but most people are not asexual and would not feel "in love" with someone until they've shared that sort of intimacy.

I'm not saying it's wrong but it's fairly rare and I think it would be prudent for Cee to acknowledge that some people can't bond the way she does with restrictions on intimacy. This somewhat unique way of functioning in relationships might mean that it is easy and logical to stagger intimacy in the way they agreed without it feeling artifical or oppressive but for most of us, we wouldn't be able to be our authentic selves.

If I really believed that one person was very right for me but they needed this sort of poly, I might make the same decision as Felix and just decide to give up dating because there wouldn't be any point. I wouldn't be me. But unlike him I'd want us to close the relationship entirely. Otherwise I'd feel resentful that my partner would only agree to the type of poly which prevents me from being myself unless they had already tried self work to accept a less restrictive model which affords me intimacy outside the relationship too.

 

[Cee]

Him telling you about their night is pretty much the warning you've asked for.

I agree and this is exactly what we discussed afterwards. I just would have liked to have had that warning and the discussion before that night even happened in the first place, but yeah, it's too late for that now.

Yes, I've had a year and a half to get used to the idea, but it's very different once the actual possibility of it happening is here. It's one thing to discuss all this in theory and totally another to have it actually happen for the first time.

I have never placed restrictions on him like Kindalosthere describes. I don't need to know every step of the process, I just need a warning before things get as intimate as sex for the first time. That is all. I do realize that it's inconvenient and sometimes things just happen and that this might not be the best rule with someone who likes things to be a lot more spontanious than I do. That is something that I have to really think about and discuss with Felix further.

I don't know how to do multiple quotes so: Kindalosthere ""Ok, starting now I can say that I will probably sleep with Susan in the near future."? Becasue in my opinion, you are not entiteled to more information than that [EDIT: Except of course things concerning e.g. safe sex]"

This is all I have asked for in the first place, that sort of notification and the discussion we would have had with it and this is what I would have liked to have had before they even went to bed to sleep naked together, even if that was the only thing that happened at that time.

 

[Cee]

When I read "more polyamorous on my end and more open on his end", I assumed that he has casual sexual relationships and encounters (or tends to) and the OP has more entangled relationships (emotional and sexual intimacy). I was surprised to learn that neither had gone past 2nd base yet the OP had been "in love" with someone else. Of course, the asexual spectrum exists, but most people are not asexual and would not feel "in love" with someone until they've shared that sort of intimacy.

It was because the person I fell in love with was in a (non-monogamous) relatinship on their end and her partner wasn't comfortable with the idea. We very much would have liked to though. And yes, maybe I am a rare case then, but I do not need to have sex to feel like I'm in love with someone and neither did they. It didn't take away any sexual feelings we had for each other though, they very much excisted, but out of respect for her current partner, we did not go there.

As for why my partner hasn't had sex with anyone yet, it's because he hasn't found a suitable partner for him before now and sure, he hasn't really even looked that hard, cause he hasn't really felt the need for it that bad anyway.

 

[Cee]

If you view it that sex could potentially be on the table with anyone given that you've made yourselves available to other people, it might help you feel as if you aren't blindsided when he discloses a new sexual encounter or relationship. So, Felix might go to a party next week and meet someone he doesn't even know exists at this point, and they might have sex that night. Any feelings that provokes, deal with those now or at least develop coping mechanisms for when they do happen now so they are ready for when he discloses.

Felix sounds like an "in the moment" guy so not the ideal fit for a something that restricts spontaneity and chemistry. When people aren't the ideal fit for some rule or restriction, they end up bending or breaking it, often to their own disadvantage. Lifting that rule might mean that he is less likely to elicit that feeling of betrayal in you and mean you're more likely to trust him.

Thank you for this, I think it might be valuable for me to try to see things from this perspective. Scary as hell, but definitely something I need to think about.

I'm definitely not very spontaneous with these things and it's very hard for me to fully understand and feel safe with a partner who is. That's the main thing I guess. I feel like it shakes up my sense of security in a way that might be too much for me in the beginning, before I really fully get accustomed to the fact that he actually is having sex with other people. That's why I would like to take it slow and sort of ease into it at first and get to the point that you describe eventually. From what you are saying though, that also might be too much for me to ask, since it obviously restricts his freedom and the way he likes to move ahead with these things.

And the more polyamorous on my end and more open on his is our initial preferences. I'm more into developing deep relationships with other people, he's more into sexual encounters and is, by his own words, perfectly happy with me as his only romantic partner. I think it would be much easier for me to handle this if he was more polyamours like me.

 

[Cee]

I'm not sure why this board leaves only some of my posts to be checked by a moderator and others not. I'm not sure if this came through.

Him telling you about their night is pretty much the warning you've asked for.

I agree and this is exactly what we discussed afterwards. I just would have liked to have had that warning and the discussion before that night even happened in the first place, but yeah, it's too late for that now.

Yes, I've had a year and a half to get used to the idea, but it's very different once the actual possibility of it happening is here. It's one thing to discuss all this in theory and totally another to have it actually happen for the first time.

I have never placed restrictions on him like Kindalosthere describes. I don't need to know every step of the process, I just need a warning before things get as intimate as sex for the first time. That is all. I do realize that it's inconvenient and sometimes things just happen and that this might not be the best rule with someone who likes things to be a lot more spontanious than I do. That is something that I have to really think about and discuss with Felix further.

I don't know how to do multiple quotes so: Kindalosthere ""Ok, starting now I can say that I will probably sleep with Susan in the near future."? Becasue in my opinion, you are not entiteled to more information than that [EDIT: Except of course things concerning e.g. safe sex]"

This is all I have asked for in the first place, that sort of notification and the discussion we would have had with it and this is what I would have liked to have had before they even went to bed to sleep naked together, even if that was the only thing that happened at that time.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

And the more polyamorous on my end and more open on his is our initial preferences. I'm more into developing deep relationships with other people, he's more into sexual encounters and is, by his own words, perfectly happy with me as his only romantic partner. I think it would be much easier for me to handle this if he was more polyamours like me.

I have only just got to understand this quote feature.

So far, Felix seems like a spontaneous guy but also a guy who doesn't fully grasp how his spontaneity manifests in terms of this poly business. For those reasons, forgive me for thinking he is likely to be like the majority of people who think they'll never feel "romantically" about any one else in that he will develop feelings outside of the boundaries he expects if he were to have another regular sexual partner. Another likely scenario is that you have different ideas about what "no romance" entails.

As an example of how this could happen between you is actually happening in this thread. You describe yourself as "more polyamorous" than Felix because he wants to seek connections that include sex whereas you want connections that are focused around emotional intimacy. For me, assuming Felix will be like most people who will share some emotional intimacy with regular sexual partners, that makes him as equally as polyamorous as someone who primarily seeks emotional intimacy (ie you).


If you think reframing the potential of him "suddenly" adding a new sexual partner might be helpful, reframing your definition of poly as multiple intimate relationships (rather than loving relationships) might also help with finding common ground.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Cee,

I suspect that if I were in your shoes, I, too, would have trouble trusting Felix. I get the impression that Felix has some issues with honesty, especially if it's about something of which he fears you wouldn't approve. Which is not actually the worst vice in the world to have, but it is something you have to deal with. Trusting him means knowing what you *can* trust him to do. You *can* trust him to do trickle truth, to tell you the truth a little at a time but not all at once. This trait is not likely to change, so you'll have to decide if you can live with it and cope with it. I'm not 100% sure Felix hasn't had sex with Susan; it's easy for me to imagine that he could be reluctant to admit it due to being scared of your expected reaction. For him it might seem easier to just omit that detail. Telling you about something that was *almost* sex might to him have made it more like a "little white lie."

Having said that, I do agree with the others that he is probably quite a spontaneous type of guy, and the idea of checking in with you before, say, sleeping naked with someone, might have been an awkward fit for him and something he just hoped he wouldn't have to do. I suspect that he doesn't plan his intimate moments ahead of time, although even if he does, he is probably scared to admit it. I suspect that your approval means a great deal to him, so that even if he thinks something (who knows what) is going to happen with Susan, he is reluctant to admit that to you because he is afraid that you won't approve. And if you don't approve (i.e. consent), that also means that he will have to limit his interaction with Susan, and limiting himself in that way would not come naturally to him. So if I am correct about all of these assumptions, it all adds up to a rather complex state of affairs where even if he wants to tell the truth, he is scared of the truth and tends to hold back.

He may have some poly (not just open) inclination, in that he may develop feelings for someone with whom he is physically intimate. But I kind of get the idea that you are slower to get physically intimate with someone than he is. If I'm right, then you and Felix have this incongruence with each other where you will naturally find it hard to understand his way of going, or hard to relate to his way of going. Hence, you may not entirely approve of his way of going. And he may be self-conscious about that. Like he wants to hide it from you, even though he knows he has to be truthful with you. I don't know if that makes sense. The bottom line is, I don't think you can change that about him, therefore your task is to decide whether you can simply accept it. If you can't accept it (and it's okay if you can't), then you may need to break up with him. I hope it doesn't come to that. Anyway these are some of my thoughts and impressions; I hope it helps somewhat.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Tinwen]

And the more polyamorous on my end and more open on his is our initial preferences. I'm more into developing deep relationships with other people, he's more into sexual encounters and is, by his own words, perfectly happy with me as his only romantic partner. I think it would be much easier for me to handle this if he was more polyamours like me.

I agree with SeasonedPoly (which happens extremely rarely ) that this can't be trusted. He sais he doesn't want another romantic partner, but once he starts going on camping trips and sleeping with someone regularly, he's likely to find himself head over heels in NRE. (That's something he would not be aware of, if he hasn't dated much.) You'll be at the position where he has a full-fledged sexual AND romantic relationship, and trust me, for most women, the romance part is way harder than the sex part. Don't go in there blindly.

 

[Cee]

As an example of how this could happen between you is actually happening in this thread. You describe yourself as "more polyamorous" than Felix because he wants to seek connections that include sex whereas you want connections that are focused around emotional intimacy. For me, assuming Felix will be like most people who will share some emotional intimacy with regular sexual partners, that makes him as equally as polyamorous as someone who primarily seeks emotional intimacy (ie you).


If you think reframing the potential of him "suddenly" adding a new sexual partner might be helpful, reframing your definition of poly as multiple intimate relationships (rather than loving relationships) might also help with finding common ground.

Wow, thank you for this. I have no idea why I never thought about it that way, cause it makes perfect sense. It's all about intimate connections, albeit different kinds of ones. I have to admit I consider my mind blown right now.

 

[Cee]

I get the impression that Felix has some issues with honesty, especially if it's about something of which he fears you wouldn't approve.

I could have quoted your whole post, cause I think you described the Felix from 1,5 years ago to a tee. I can see he has changed tremendously though and he's put a lot of work into being honest with me, cause he knows I value that above anything else, and that it's his dishonesty that almost broke us back then, not anything he actually did. This whole thing has brought some of my doubts about his honesty back though, and I don't think anyone can blame me for that. I still need to figure out if I truly believe him in this or not, but I'm starting to fall more in to the believing camp, cause he doesn't show any of the defence mechanisms he used to when I question his truth. We still have lots of talks ahead of us though.

What I also got from you post was the dynamic of me disapproving him and him seeking for my approval. That is something I really have to dig deeper into, cause I can see how it can cause a lot of our problems. Thank you for shining a light on this.

 

[Cee]

I agree with SeasonedPoly (which happens extremely rarely ) that this can't be trusted. He sais he doesn't want another romantic partner, but once he starts going on camping trips and sleeping with someone regularly, he's likely to find himself head over heels in NRE. (That's something he would not be aware of, if he hasn't dated much.) You'll be at the position where he has a full-fledged sexual AND romantic relationship, and trust me, for most women, the romance part is way harder than the sex part. Don't go in there blindly.

I am well aware of that and I think he has become more aware of it as well as a result of our talks. It is one of the reasons why I haven't really understood or trusted his desire to categorize his relationships as sexual ones, cause to me it also feels like turning a blind eye to the possibilities of where those connections might actually take you. And then before he knows it, he'll be in a relationship he never really wanted in the first place and hasn't prepared for and how that will affect our relationship.

 

[ElMango]

I am well aware of that and I think he has become more aware of it as well as a result of our talks. It is one of the reasons why I haven't really understood or trusted his desire to categorize his relationships as sexual ones, cause to me it also feels like turning a blind eye to the possibilities of where those connections might actually take you. And then before he knows it, he'll be in a relationship he never really wanted in the first place and hasn't prepared for and how that will affect our relationship.

SeasonedPoly's advice was very spot on for sure, and definitely a good place to work from!

I totally get your views with Felix's personal limitation of 'just sex'. As Tinwin said, it rarely works out that way. I think though, because you guys are really working on communicating and it sounds like really working on reframing certain things, that over time Felix will maybe understand/reconcile with this more. It could also be that, like my husband, he only wants deep friendships with benefits; not a casual dalliance but someone he is friends with and cares for but he isn't romantically attracted to. It didn't make him immune to NRE and infatuation!