Trying for best results in married couple+fwb evolving(?) relationship

I think you're right that you don't need anyone's approval. I do think that most people who have responded are mostly trying to get you to think from other perspectives. They way I read the thread, people are not trying to be harsh, they're trying to help you avoid making some common mistakes.

Ultimately, you don't need to argue with anyone else or convince them they are wrong. If you think about what someone said and decide it doesn't apply you, it doesn't matter whether you can convince them you're right, they're wrong, or they're misreading the situation. What matters is that you've thought about it. At the end of the day, it's your relationship(s).

The number one way I've found to avoid problems in my relationships is clear, direct, honest communication, as soon as possible, even when it's hard. I don't think it's ever too early to talk about feelings, expectations, and boundaries. I personally like to know those things ASAP before I get so emotionally committed that the collapse of the relationship will really hurt when we later realize those very important things don't line up. But that's just my preference. As long as you're approaching things from a place of respect, honesty, consideration, and communication, I think you're on the right path.
 
If I'm understanding things correctly, it sounds like a fair amount of things have been going on in quite a short period of time, and you are maybe just having a bit of a panic at all the changes. Your wife has always been polyamorous, but you have (at least previously) identified as monogamous. You were happy for her to explore sex only with others, as long as you were there - undoubtedly part of that was related to easing YOUR feelings of jealousy or insecurity, and feeling like if you were included in her explorations, you still felt like you were being considered and taken care for by her - and by being there you could understand her explorations and feel like they were not a threat to your relationship with her. Now you have developed some warmer feelings of your own for another woman, and you seem uncertain what happens next. Is that a reasonable summary?

If it is, then I wonder if part of what you are dealing with here is purely your own internal reaction to beginning to question some of the relationship assumptions you have had in your lifetime. In all honesty, it sounds like your wife is not afraid of you developing a greater bond with her friend. It also sounds like your friend, if she is interested in exploring a greater bond with you herself and is not just enjoying an experimental three way with a hot guy and her close friend, would be entering into any relationship with you knowing that you are in a strong marriage and not looking for another wife. So to me, the intuition you have about restricting sexual activity to the three of you to stop her from being jealous of your wife is misguided - that might have been how YOU felt, and why YOU wanted to be included in your wife's previous liaisons with men (even though it wasn't really your cup of tea sexually speaking) - but it doesn't sound like a restriction that either of the women in your life need for themselves or are asking you for (although you are ambiguous about whether your wife and her friend also have feelings for one another, and if they are also exploring something sexual together, so maybe there is extra stuff going on between the two women that I'm not taking into account).

Do you feel like if you were to have the right to one-on-one sex with your new friend, that you would have to extend the same courtesy to your wife, and is this the real underlying issue here? Are you worried that by opening up to the possibility of a more polyamorous set-up with someone else, your wife might feel like she should be able to have something similar with another partner of her choosing? I ask, because it seems like it might be the elephant in the room, and because I have also felt at times during my transition from a monogamous relationship style that I have actually suppressed myself in ways like this because I was afraid of things getting out of hand all over the shop. Even though there were times where I would have liked to have gotten a little closer to someone, I felt like I was more afraid of my partner getting even closer with someone else, so I stuck to previously agreed upon patterns of behaviour that weren't actually suiting what either of us wanted in the long run.

If any of what I've said resonates with you, don't panic! I think the best thing you can do for everyone involved is to take a deep breath and acknowledge that a lot is changing, but that change is not necessarily bad. Talk to your wife, find out how she is really feeling. Would she like one on one sex with others, or is that not on her mind right now? Even if it is, can you guys work together - now that you have had this experience for yourself and realised that your affectionate feelings aren't displacing your love for your wife - and move towards that? Honestly, to an outsider who knows nothing about you guys and your journey, the three of you sound like you're in a good shape to try this. Things have emerged naturally, there is attraction there, playfulness, mutual respect…suffice to say, many people on this forum would love to be in your shoes right now because it seems like you have all the right ingredients for a healthy vee (or possibly full triad if the girls also have romantic/sexual feelings for each other too). I get that this is your first proper foray outside of (emotional) monogamy, and that you might be a bit freaked out, but if you take things slowly, do away with the preconceptions and need for control of each other, something wonderful could happen here.
 
Hi tenK.

First, I think your summary is pretty spot on.

To answer a couple questions you raised:

So to me, the intuition you have about restricting sexual activity to the three of you to stop her from being jealous of your wife is misguided - that might have been how YOU felt, and why YOU wanted to be included in your wife's previous liaisons with men (even though it wasn't really your cup of tea sexually speaking) - but it doesn't sound like a restriction that either of the women in your life need for themselves or are asking you for
Click to expand...
.

My wife is actually the one who brought the subject up, and requested that rule, with the reasoning I gave. The reason I've felt like it was a good idea is because I had arrived at the same conclusion myself prior to that, and was debating whether it warranted discussing with my wife, when she brought it up to me. But since I can't actually figure out what the logic of it is supposed to be, I need to ask her if she can explain it to me, because I'd be very willing to believe that my end of it is exactly as you described. Maybe she suggested it because if she's there to monitor everything, she can intervene if she sees something she thinks might endanger the friendship. Didn't think of it that way, huh.... I'll have to talk to her about it.

...you are ambiguous about whether your wife and her friend also have feelings for one another, and if they are also exploring something sexual together, so maybe there is extra stuff going on between the two women that I'm not taking into account
Click to expand...

It's kind of an ambiguous situation. I did talk to my wife, and she is definitely interested in having a small number of 1 on 1 encounters with our friend (I don't know if the "small number" part is really true, her being pessimistic, or her trying to be nice to me), but doesn't want to bring the possibility up yet, because the friend identifies as straight. We both doubt that she is, and suspect that it's more an experience thing, based on how she's behaved thus far, but I guess sometimes just having a guy involved can change what a straight woman is willing to do, so we're not sure.

For my part, the idea of them having 1 on 1 time does illicit a knee jerk jealous/nervous response from me, but it's much milder than it would have been a couple years ago, and I know that I could deal with it, and that even those feelings would fade with time and exposure. And, if it weren't for other complicating factors, I'd rather get it over with sooner than later. As it is, we both think it's best to just handle that issue very slowly and carefully, though if anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear it.

Oh, and WhatHappened,
I appreciate your comments on this, because I think you've given me some insight into how XBF thinks--or tried to. As I just sent you a PM with some of those details, I think you can see that it didn't work too well for him.
Click to expand...

I have no illusion that I could keep that up for years, or even probably months. For one thing, I don't think I would even remain interested in the sex, at least more than once in a while, if I had to reign myself in like that. If I'd had to do that, and the situation hadn't changed, it would have had a very short shelf life on my end, and I'd be having to consider different issues right now instead, like how to best make sure she knew it was a purely sexual thing.

I'm glad I could provide insight though :)
 
Simple said:
My wife is actually the one who brought the subject up, and requested that rule, with the reasoning I gave. The reason I've felt like it was a good idea is because I had arrived at the same conclusion myself prior to that, and was debating whether it warranted discussing with my wife, when she brought it up to me. But since I can't actually figure out what the logic of it is supposed to be, I need to ask her if she can explain it to me, because I'd be very willing to believe that my end of it is exactly as you described. Maybe she suggested it because if she's there to monitor everything, she can intervene if she sees something she thinks might endanger the friendship. Didn't think of it that way, huh.... I'll have to talk to her about it.
Click to expand...

I think that's a good idea. Your wife could have just suggested it out of habit - because this is how you have always operated in the past - but best to check. It's always important to understand the logic of any kind of rule or restriction, if only so that you are aware of related issues that might also be problematic. People are often good at sticking to specific rules, but bad at then generalising behaviour to new situations that for one person might be 'similar enough' to the rule as to have a similar expectation attached…and we all know how that kind of thinking can go awry! :)

Simple said:
It's kind of an ambiguous situation. I did talk to my wife, and she is definitely interested in having a small number of 1 on 1 encounters with our friend (I don't know if the "small number" part is really true, her being pessimistic, or her trying to be nice to me), but doesn't want to bring the possibility up yet, because the friend identifies as straight. We both doubt that she is, and suspect that it's more an experience thing, based on how she's behaved thus far, but I guess sometimes just having a guy involved can change what a straight woman is willing to do, so we're not sure.
Click to expand...

This sounds like something your wife needs to pluck up the courage to ask her friend about, sooner rather than later. Is she happy for the two of you to continue to date even if that eventuality doesn't emerge and the interest for threesomes fades over time? If not, then it might be better to gracefully exit stage left now and for you to not get any more attached, because as you acknowledge, her interest in your wife in a sexual sense may totally hinge on you being present. Even if she is bi, her attraction to women, or your wife in particular, might not be as strong as her attraction to men, or you in particular. Hence the dilemma for many would-be unicorn-hunters. These things, if they are to have an emotional component, tend to work best if allowed to just happen without a goal of 'equality'. It might be that all three of you hook up together every now and then, that you and friend hook up together a bit more, and friend and your wife never hook up, or do so once or twice and never again. If that's what feels right to everyone involved (even if your wife is a little disappointed that there's not more of a connection for her), it will still be a lot more stable than insisting that everyone get equal time, or everyone must have sex together.


Simple said:
For my part, the idea of them having 1 on 1 time does illicit a knee jerk jealous/nervous response from me, but it's much milder than it would have been a couple years ago, and I know that I could deal with it, and that even those feelings would fade with time and exposure.
Click to expand...

It's good to know that that is how you feel. I still get a bit of a rumbling in my belly when Nina finds a new partner and I don't know where that might lead, but I know that it will pass and that I can withstand a few unpleasant feelings to get to the other side. You have the right idea with going slow and keeping each other in the loop. But don't exclude your new friend from that process too. I bet she's dealing with a lot of new changes too - it'd be good if you and your wife were talking to her about those changes and how she feels more regularly too. It doesn't have to be a Big Relationship Discussion, more just an acknowledgement that 'hey, we're all doing something that's a bit new for us all, how's that going for you? anything we can do better? anything bothering you?' etc.
 
Last edited:
This sounds like something your wife needs to pluck up the courage to ask her friend about, sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...

I hope she does. I'm not under the impression that it's very important to my wife, but it may be and she's just not comfortable with conveying that to me right now. Maybe I'll suggest some ways she could approach it, or maybe just talking to me about it will make her more willing to talk to her friend.

But don't exclude your new friend from that process too. I bet she's dealing with a lot of new changes too - it'd be good if you and your wife were talking to her about those changes and how she feels more regularly too. It doesn't have to be a Big Relationship Discussion, more just an acknowledgement that 'hey, we're all doing something that's a bit new for us all, how's that going for you? anything we can do better? anything bothering you?' etc.
Click to expand...

I really like this idea. Thank you.
 
Just out of interest, can you explain how forbidding 1v1 sex with the new person will prevent them from being jealous of your wife, who can have 1v1 sex with you? It's just that to me, it's logical for someone to be envious/jealous of what they don't/can't have, so that's why it doesn't make sense to me.
 
The one thing standing out to me (admittedly, I may not have read as thoroughly as I could have, but I tried) is that you seem to be speculating instead of communicating. You're making guesses about why your wife thought she should be present during your interactions with the FWB. You're making guesses about the FWB's sexual orientation and its basis and whether she's right about her identification.

(As a slightly harsh side note... Having been the straight woman who a couple decided to try to "turn bi", I find the idea that someone doesn't know their own sexual orientation and other people know better to be pretty offensive. Some of us are entirely, no exceptions ever, straight... it might be rare, but it happens.)

That said... I see that you are getting some good advice and opinions on this thread, and I hope they're helping. But the only way to really know what your wife and your FWB are thinking about any of this, and the only way for them to know what you're thinking, is to communicate. We can't read minds, and neither can you, so I think talking to them would be a good idea.
 
MightyMax, unfortunately I can't. That's the reason that I've dropped it as a good idea. It seemed true for some reason, but I can't really pin down what that reason might be, so I'm no longer supporting it as a good policy.

KC43, you're correct in that I'm doing a fair amount of speculating. I have also discussed some of the subject at fairly great length with my wife, but in situations where the reason something seems like a good idea is "It just seems like a good idea," I think a certain amount of speculation is natural. I intend on having another conversation on the subject tomorrow, or possibly later tonight if I have a chance, but for now my wife is unavailable to speak to due to work schedules, so I am speculating a bit, until I have the opportunity to obtain the new information I want.

You also bring up questioning our friends orientation. I do know to some extent what it is like being straight and not bi, a fact that I'm not entirely pleased with, but I wouldn't feel certain in any way that I were straight unless I had actually put myself in situations where I could obtain that knowledge firsthand. Similarly, my wife thought she was straight until a few years ago. I am sure there are bi people who have just always known that's their orientation, but I know that also does not apply to everyone.

I would never try to "turn" our friend bi, nor would I condone any course of action aimed at that. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to doubt someone's self-knowledge on the subject when he or she has been in a very limited number of relationships and they have all been with men. I by no means assume that she's bi; I think it's at least as likely that she's straight, or somewhere on the spectrum that involves enjoying kissing, even if it's with other women, recognizes that breasts are awesome, and still has absolutely no interest in anything that could reasonably be described as having sex with another woman. What I'm saying is a lot of new information has been presented to her since she said she's straight, and it's the sort of information that has potential to either challenge and assumption or reinforce it. And the subject hasn't been discussed since.

I wouldn't want any pushing or anything, but I think a quick "Hey, are you still pretty sure you're straight?" might be in order.
 
Simple said:
I would never try to "turn" our friend bi, nor would I condone any course of action aimed at that. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to doubt someone's self-knowledge on the subject when he or she has been in a very limited number of relationships and they have all been with men. I by no means assume that she's bi; I think it's at least as likely that she's straight, or somewhere on the spectrum that involves enjoying kissing, even if it's with other women, recognizes that breasts are awesome, and still has absolutely no interest in anything that could reasonably be described as having sex with another woman. What I'm saying is a lot of new information has been presented to her since she said she's straight, and it's the sort of information that has potential to either challenge and assumption or reinforce it. And the subject hasn't been discussed since.

I wouldn't want any pushing or anything, but I think a quick "Hey, are you still pretty sure you're straight?" might be in order.
Click to expand...

How dare you question someone's sexuality!

I can count my sexual partners in my 40 some years on less than two hands. I can admire a nice set of breasts, so can my homosexual male friends. Doesn't mean I am bisexual anymore doesn't it make my gay male friends straight when they tell me I am having a glorious boob day. I do not find women sexually appealing in the least bit never have and never will. Who are YOU to decide whether or not someone is straight?
 
Simple, I think you may want to invite your wife here to read this thread. Also, what I notice most in your posts is that there's a fair amount of discussion between you and your wife about the relationship you have with your FWB/lover/girlfriend, but no discussions with the FWB/lover/girlfriend about it. Ugh, that can be the path to disaster.
 
Last edited:
Hi again. Just wanted to come back for a minute to provide an update and explain why i stopped responding suddenly.

First, i am moving and also got a new job that, for a few weeks, has me working long hours 7 days a week. So i just don't have much time for, well, much of anything, haha. Which is why i stopped responding. I'm sure ill be back for more advice in the future, but for now, i just dont have the time to inquire further.

Also, a quick note: for anyone who thinks I'm an awful person for questioning someones else's sexual orientation, I guess it's fine that you feel that way, but i disagree and think you're being a little naive about the whole concept of self-knowledge. And maybe how integrating and using new experiences and information works in general. I am well aware that I dont know everything there is to know about myself, and anyone who thinks they know everything there is to know about themselves is either a serious badass or a little delusional; just my opinion, anyway. If anyone does want to further discuss exactly how i dare do anything though, I'll be back in a couple weeks after my move and would love to talk :) You can even pm me if you want, just dont expect a response until then.

And, the update:

The talk: My wife and our friend had a talk about boundaries, during which my wife lost most of her concern about our friend getting jealous. I'm a little curious what exactly caused that, bht i keep forgetting to ask if it's even okay for me to ask that. Maybe tomorrow I remember. Aside from that, there wasn't really any information imparted that i havent already shared, because our friend didnt have any boundaries to offer, she just wanted to know ours.

Then i had a more extended talk with her, explained my feelings on her getting together with my wife (I'm okay, but will need a bit of time to process if it happens), learned that she has yet to decide whether she's interested in that (going to say i called it), and then apparently blew her mind by introducing her to the idea that a fwb setup is not the only way our relationship could go. She hadnt even considered anything other than pretty basic fwb's, so she didnt really have an answer when i asked her if she wanted something else, but we're planning on talking more about it when my job is over and she's had time to think. She didn't shoot me down when i said I'd like to take her on a date if i can think of something fun to do, so mahbe that's something, but whatever happens is fine with me.

One on one time: again, the "threesomes only" act was repealed, haha, and we did get to spend a night alone together. We were dead tired, so the sexing was only good, but the intimacy was really nice. It had been a week or so since we got tk cuddle or anything, and i think we both really needed it. Still waiting to see what if any impact that has, was only last night.

The move: I havent mentioned this before, because I didnt want to deal with discussing it, but my wife and i are in the final stages (moving in the last boxes and pieces of furniture) of moving in with our friend and her former roommate, another female friend of ours. We all realize that it's risky, but it's something that was in the works before this relationship started, and we all agreed that it wasn't worth cancelling over it. So, if you have any specific advice other than "cease this foolishness while you still can!" lol (moot point because the lease has been signed), I'm interested, but vague warnings that it's a bad idea aren't necessary; i know its a bad idea. But my daughter loves our friend, she loves our daughter, my wife and her have a great relationship, and I'm willing to work around whatever happens, so id rather take the risk than not, and everyone else has expressed agreement.

So yeah, i think thats mkst of it. I'll be back in a couple weeks. Have fun everyone :)
 
Hey Simple, thanks for your update. Wow, you have a lot of irons in the fire! I don't know what to predict, but my well wishes go with you.

Looking forward to hearing more from you whenever you get the chance.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
My only advice is to try to put an agreement in place about looking at problems from both roommate and relationship sides.

Ex one person is upset that another didn't clean up dishes immediately after having a romantic dinner. It's the next morning and someone is upset.

Is this a relationship/emotional issue, or simply a roommate one? Depends on the people.
OR how should the roommates respond when you and your wife are arguing? Or vice versa.

I would sit down and discuss in detail every roommates needs and responsibility re cooking, cleaning, having guests over, basic schedules and quiet time needs.
Then I would take a break and talk about relationship needs/wants.
Then I'd have a third conversation about ways to make them all balance.
Living with multiple other people is an ongoing exercise in flexibly managing and adequately balancing everyone's fluctuating needs.
My most successful living arrangement with multiple others was with a couple and another friend. While I was not romantically involved with any of my roommates, they were variously entangled and dating others.
Us roomies had a standing house talk once a week to discuss cooking cleaning bills scheduling and to address interpersonal issues.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top