Two couples, intro/extroverted... serious concerns

[poobah123]

Can a poly relationship succeed when it involves two couples who are inherently very different?

Quick summary. My wife and I have been involved with another married couple for some time. It started with me (39M) falling in love with my OSO, Sunny, due to my own marriage problems. Both relationships involve an extrovert who married an introvert.

After a few years now, instead of my secondary relationship helping to improve my primary one, it seems rather it's serving to highlight the incompatibilities that exist in our primary relationship, thus bringing along a constant feeling of frustration and disappointment. Yes, changes have been made on both sides, but only to a certain point. I have realized that you can only change so much. You cannot make an introvert into an extrovert. for example.

Now I have reached a point of complete frustration/anger/resentment in my primary relationship. I will never say I regret my choice in my wife, but we are very different from each other I certainly could have chosen a more compatible person. I understand everyone is different in their own way, but after 20 years of ignoring my own frustrations due to this incompatibility, I am finally paying attention to what I want out of my life. I'm just tired of living with an introvert!

The current most outstanding problem is that my wife Sarah really doesn't like my OSO Sunny.

Sarah views Sunny as annoying and constantly in her life. Why? Well, it's not on purpose. It's simply because Sunny is an extrovert and Sarah a total introvert, so naturally there is a friction there. A case in point is that my mother feels closer with my OSO than my wife of 20 years! My friends, trying to plan my 40th birthday party, call my OSO and not my wife! My brother communicates with my OSO and not my wife. The list goes on and on.

I think to myself sometimes life would be much easier just swapping and ending this, but I know everyone has their flaws, and it wouldn't be peaches and roses either if we did. Can this succeed, or is it headed for failure?

 

[LovingRadiance]

Why are these issues? My bf GG, of 20 years, is extroverted. So am I. My dh Maca, of 15 years, is introverted. Works fine. Quiet homey stuff and fishing/hunting with Maca. Group social events with GG. Every need filled.

Maca often leaves soon after family gatherings start so he doesn't get anxiety attacks. Everyone knows it is just who he is. No biggie. GG doesn't have that issue. He will cook and clean and hang out all night.

*shrug*

I guess, to me, it seems like the issue is your lack of acceptance. Go be extroverted. Have fun. Let Sarah be introverted and have her own fun. Loving someone doesn't mean changing for them. It means accepting them for who they are.

 

[Emm]

Introverts don't need to be "fixed."
Extroversion isn't the default setting that everyone should aim for.
You shouldn't treat your wife as if she were broken.

 

[london]

It started with me (39M) falling in love with my OSO Sunny, due to my own marriage problems.

So you fell in love with one person because you were having problems with another?

instead of the secondary relationship helping to improve the primary

Is the purpose of a secondary relationship to help the broken, primary relationship, then?

You cannot make an introvert an extrovert, for example.

Why would anyone want to change anyone else to begin with?

I will never say I regret my choice in my wife, but we are so different from each other. I certainly could have chosen a more compatible person.

There isn't anything wrong with regretting making a long term legal, moral and religious (if you dig that) commitment to someone who is incompatible with you because it means you pretty much have to sacrifice some of your needs, or be a complete bastard to them in order to get your needs met.

It's simply because my OSO is an extrovert and my wife a total introvert, so naturally there is a friction there.

There doesn't have to be friction at all. They could stay out of one another's lives and simply learn to work with one another when they have to, such as on your birthday. They could view it like an employee on their team that they don't like. Keep it professional. Sarah needs to realise that she doesn't have to like Sunny. You do. She just needs to like you.

My mother feels closer with my OSO than my wife of 20 years! My friends, trying to plan my 40th birthday party, call my OSO and not my wife! My brother communicates with my OSO and not my wife. The list goes on and on.

Well actually, whilst it's great that your family accept your polyness, they need to accept you have two partners and they both need to be in the line of communication, etc., if they are going to accept it properly. Leaving your wife out is quite a shitty thing to do, especially if it is merely based on this introvert/extrovert stuff.

Is the problem just that your wife has insecurities about you being non-monogamous, some of which are completely justified, given that you want her to change the essence of who she is, and seemingly, so does your family?

 

[GalaGirl]

That seems like a vent to me. I am sorry you are frustrated/angry.

Can a poly relationship succeed when it involves two couples who are inherently very different? Yes. Can yours? I don't know. You don't list what each of the problems are and what the desired outcomes for each are so people can help you figure out how to get there.

You seem to list your feelings, and some unclear stuff. Since it's unclear to me, I'm just going to ask some questions to try to help you think it out and clarify. You don't have to answer here if you don't want to. It's just for you, okay?

It started with me (39M) falling in love with my OSO due to my own marriage problems.

What were the original problems? Have they been resolved and let go of by all involved parties?

After a few years now, instead of the secondary relationship helping to improve the primary, it seems rather it's serving to highlight the incompatibilities that exist in the primary relationship.

Whose expectation is this? Yours? Sarah's? Does holding on to this expectation add to today's problems or take away?

Now I have reached a point of complete frustration/anger/resentment in my primary relationship.

What is causing your frustration/anger/resentment? What need is not being met by you? By Sarah? By Sunny? Your meta, the other husband?

What behavior could you do so you could feel respected and that continuing the polyship is worthwhile? What could each of the others do?

What about living with an introvert is hard for you?

As the hinge, are you being put "in the middle" by the other people? For instance, does Sarah expect you to talk to Sunny for her, rather than talk to her directly?

What are you expectations of your relationship with Sarah? Does she meet your expectations? Are the expectations realistic and rational?

How do your current behaviors add or take away from the old or new problems?
How do you wife's current behaviors?
Your OSO's behaviors?
Your metamour's behaviors?

What are these behaviors?

The current most outstanding problem is that Sarah really doesn't like Sunny.

This is a problem for whom? Sarah, you or Sunny?

Are any of the issues of "poly hell" at play here for any of the people in your polyship? Which ones are affecting whom?

My mother feels closer with my OSO than my wife of 20 years! My friends call my OSO and not my wife. My brother communicates with my OSO and not my wife

What list goes on and on? Is this a laundry list of perceived reality that Sarah is telling you? Or is it actuality? Your mother is actually telling you she likes Sunny better than Sarah? You brother's actually calling Sunny rather than your wife to organize your birthday? If so, have you asked your family of origin to not exclude your wife from family things, and not to put you in this position between your loved ones?

I certainly could have chosen a more compatible person. I understand everyone is different, but after 20 years of ignoring my own frustrations due to this incompatibility, I am finally paying attention to what I want out of my life.

I think to myself sometimes life would be much easier just swapping and ending this, but I know everyone has their flaws and it wouldn't be peaches and roses either if we did. Can this succeed or is it headed for failure?

Why do you stay in your marriage? Habit? Or a desire to be together as life companions? What joys does it bring you? I'm not sure what your temperature is here. You seem kind of meh on your marriage.

What is "success" to you for the marriage? How is it measured?

Is the goal to be together and thrive as life companions? Or be together and merely survive? Is it something else?

Galagirl

 

[opalescent]

I know some couples in 'mixed' marriages, one partner being quite introverted and the other very extroverted. They make it work by accepting each other as they are. They don't always understand each other instinctively or intuitively because they are so different. They have to work at it. They don't ignore the friction of living with someone so different and let annoyances and frustrations build up. They've done research on what introversion and extroversion actually are, instead of the more conventional ideas, which tend to be more judgmental, unfortunately.

Have you looked at what introversion and extroversion are? If not, you would probably find it very useful and open up whole ways to understand Sarah, Sunny and yourself.

They just mean where people find their 'charge'. Extroverts get energy from being around people. For many extroverts, being alone for too long is really draining and uncomfortable. Introverts need alone time to recharge. They find being around people too much to be exhausting.

Extroverts are often outgoing and introverts tend to be more quiet. But that is not always true. Some introverts are outgoing but still need time alone after being social. It is also not true that introverts are not social or don't like people. Being introverted is not the same as being shy or withdrawn.

'Quiet: The Power of Introverts' by Susan Cain is both fascinating and deeply illuminating. I know my quite extroverted friend found it extremely helpful in better understanding her introverted husband.

'A Simple Explanation' is the shortest, sweetest explanation of introversion I've ever seen. Plus it's funny: http://twentytwowords.com/2012/08/29/a-simple-explanation-of-how-to-interact-with-introverts/

 

[opalescent]

This is also good http://eslmarriage.com/dear-introverts-an-honest-letter-from-an-extrovert/ as is this http://timandolive.com/dear-extroverts/.

 

[Marcus]

It's simply because Sunny is an extrovert and Sarah a total introvert, so naturally there is a friction there. My mother, friends, brother communicate with my OSO and not my wife.

Why is it a problem for your friends and family to involve someone who isn't Sarag? Does Sarah have issues with this? Has she communicated that she feels like she's being left out? How is this affecting you negatively?

It is important to recognize that people have different personality types and communication styles. When appreciated constructively, this can be a boon in positive communication. However, it is also good to realize that there isn't a problem with someone being more introverted than someone else, nor someone being more extroverted than someone else. Different isn't necessarily bad. Sometimes it's just different.

 

[Squashking]

You have it good!

Can a poly relationship succeed when it involves two couples who are inherently very different?

Hey, Poobah. This is an interesting post, because I have exactly the same situation you describe. However, I think that your situation is pretty good. Let me explain:

My wife and I are in a quad with another married couple.

Me: Extroverted
My gf: Extroverted
My Wife: Introverted
Her bf: Introverted

My wife and I have been married for 17 years. Our marriage is awesome, exceptionally strong and loving. The other couple also has a very strong marriage. We are all very similar in our morals, beliefs, etc.

Being married to an opposite works perfectly, IMHO. My wife is a calming presence, which is what I need. We do have to work a bit harder to communicate sometimes, but I am pretty used to that. She has a different perspective on virtually any topic, so that's something we both benefit from. On the other hand, I am lucky to have an amazing relationship with my gf, who is almost exactly like me. There are lots of additional benefits that I never knew existed before. Communication is a bit easier, we tend to "understand" each other. My wife reports the same benefits with her boyfriend.

Now, the relationships between same-sex individuals are also interesting. The intro-extro dynamic make those friendships very strong, as well.

The unique difference in relationship between my wife and my GF is something I cherish. We all enjoy the differences and embrace them because it is always fun and exciting. To be perfectly honest, it has also made me a better husband as well, I have changed certain things that in the past my wife used to simply tolerate. She has done the same for me.

Our quad works so well because of the unique differences in personality types.

But what I did have to learn was that the way I communicated with each person is completely different.

Lastly, in our situation, our success so far begins/ends with a strong marriage. I think we would have been done a while ago if we never had that. That would be my foremost concern with your situation.

 

[WhatHappened]

Can a poly relationship succeed when it involves two couples who are inherently very different?

I'm not sure why introversion/extroversion has to be a problem. What, exactly, is her introversion causing you to lack?

My wife views her as annoying and constantly in her life. Why? Well it's not on purpose. It's simply because my OSO is an extrovert and my wife a total introvert so naturally there is a friction there. Case in point is my mother feels closer with my OSO than my wife of 20 years! My friends trying to plan my 40th birthday party call my OSO and not my wife! My brother communicates with my OSO and not my wife. The list goes on and on.

I can certainly understand that your wife might be feeling very displaced and replaced. I can imagine that's very painful to her.

After a few years now, instead of the secondary relationship helping to improve the primary...

Ouch. As a secondary, I could barely get past this sentence. Was that the purpose of your new toy... er, I mean, sorry, your new human being to be a marital aid? Maybe if you replace its... I mean her... batteries, she'll perform better and do her job, and your marriage will improve. Or are there lemon laws in your state? Maybe you just got a faulty secondary. Maybe you should write a letter of complaint to the Secondary Manufacturer. Good luck.

 

[poobah123]

First, thanks for all the responses! I will try to answer most of your questions.

Yes, I agree I think this is an issue with me not accepting Sarah's introverted personality. I agree she shouldn't change entirely. However, her personality is what pushed me away, because I lacked what she could not give me. Affection, sex, acknowledgment that I exist. We were essentially roommates. So I ended up falling in love with someone else. Yes, there were some things in our marriage we had to fix, and we are better off today.

I believe the primary relationship should be healthy before entering into a poly relationship but it's just been back and forth. Good sometimes, bad other times, mostly because the introverts don't tell us what's bothering them until weeks later!

I agree Sarah doesn't need to like Sunny. The problem is, Sarah gets upset because of the natural differences between extroverted and introverted personalities. Sunny might organize something and Sarah doesn't agree with it, or she feels like Sunny is running her life.

Neither my family nor I want her to change. We just wish things could be different. My mother wishes she could have a closer bond with Sarah, but it just doesn't happen.

GalaGirl, will try to answer you.

Not all problems have been resolved. However, we acknowledge what they are and all try to work on ourselves. I guess in my thinking there should be more communication amongst the four of us and there is not.

This is a problem for me. I am often caught between my partners. They get pissed. I am forced to upset one.

For the most part, my family tries not to offend anyone. My mom is great. However, she and Sunny get along great. They love to talk. Sarah not so much, but it is something my mother and family respects.

My goal is to be together and thrive! However, I feel like we are just surviving. Very good way to put it.

Gotta get back to work, but appreciate all the responses!! I will be back.

 

[bookbug]

Thanks. I will try and answer most of your questions.

I agree I think this is an issue with me not accepting her introverted personality. I agree she shouldn't change entirely. However her personality is what pushed me away because I lacked what she could not give me. Affection, sex, acknowledgment that I exist. We were essentially roommates. So I ended up falling in love with someone else. There were some things in our marriage we had to fix. We are better off today.

I believe the primary relationship should be healthy before entering into a poly relationship and it's just been back and forth. Good sometimes, bad other times, mostly because the introverts don't tell us what's bothering them until weeks later.

If I may make an observation, the issues you cited-- acknowledgement, sex, affection, have nothing to do with the fact that your wife is an introvert. Being an introvert myself, and counting a number of them among my friends and family, they are as warm, friendly, and in my lover's case, as sexy as hell as any extrovert. It is just that they all need time alone to recharge. So this whole introvert/extrovert divide you have going is a massive over-simplification of the problem.

These issues sound more related to inability to communicate, perhaps self-esteem issues, etc. Have you two tried counseling?

 

[Ariakas]

I think this is an issue with me not accepting her introverted personality. I agree she shouldn't change entirely. However her personality is what pushed me away because I lacked what she could not give me-- affection, sex, acknowledgment that I exist. We were essentially roommates. So I ended up falling in love with someone else. There were some things in our marriage we had to fix. We are better off today.

Sarah doesn't need to like her. The problem is she gets upset because of the natural differences between extratroverted and introverted personalities. Sunny might organize something and Sarah doesn't agree with it, or feels like Sunny is running her life.

I think you need to re-assess the diagnosis. Neither of those "symptoms" you mention apply to introversion or extroversion. They are independent and telling of other potential challenges. They may apply to other disorders, but I am not a doctor, and don't know enough to really put anything together. I just know that neither of those applies to introversion/extroversion.

I believe the primary relationship should be healthy before entering into a poly relationship... the introverts don't tell us what's bothering them until weeks later.

Again, not an introvert problem. Introverts can let people know what the problems are, they just may not thrive in social situations. You can have an introvert who can clearly articulate their needs and wants as well as organize time. Being reflective doesn't exclude being assertive or even sexual.

I agree the primary relationship should be healthy to be fair to anyone coming in. Otherwise all hell can break lose.

Sarah doesn't need to like Sunny. Sarah gets upset because of the natural differences between extra and introverted personalities. Sunny might organize something and Sarah doesn't agree with it or feels like my Sunny is running her life.

Why are they scheduling anything with each other if they don't like each other? And if this schedule seems to be about you, why aren't you controlling the schedule and making sure both parties have their needs met and/or the situation is explained?

Each person can control themselves, their own schedules and their own lives. It's up to the others to be self-assured to manage their own set of schedules, so things mesh.

Questions like these come up all the time. Can two doms co-exist? Can two subs be sexual? Can introverts and extroverts work together? The simple answer is yes, these opposing personalities can work, as long as everyone understands their strengths and weaknesses. Respect amongst the entire group is important too. If there isn't any, then I pity the person being "scheduled." They will get torn apart.

Good luck. I would find it very tough to be involved in a two-couple arrangement where the hinges don't get along.

 

[GalaGirl]

However, her personality is what pushed me away, because I lacked what she could not give me-- affection, sex, acknowledgment that I exist.

She's responsible alone for the health of the marriage?

You could consider reframing so you take some emotional responsibility for yourself. Maybe something like...

"Our marriage had problems.

• She was not willing to do behavior toward me that demonstrated affection like I wanted at that time.
• She was not willing to have sex like I wanted at that time.
• She was not willing to acknowledge that I exist like I wanted at that time.

I chose to disengage. I chose to get my needs met elsewhere. I fell in love with SO."

Could keep in to behavior done/not done by her and by you that fail to meet the needs of THE MARRIAGE for it to be healthy, rather making it be about personalities, or your individual needs.

Nothing you list has anything to do with introverted/extroverted stuff as presented.

I note you do not list what behavior you did try to arrive at new agreements, so she could become more willing to meet your needs before choosing to disengage. What behaviors were they?

Was this polyship begun from an affair? You don't seem to say. That could pose some extra problem layers, if so.

I believe the primary relationship should be healthy before entering into a poly relationship.

Yep. But you are not beginning a polyship. You are in one already.

It's just been back and forth., good sometimes, bad other times.

That sounds like the ups and downs of living. Happens in any relationship shape.

Mostly because the introverts don't tell us what's bothering them until weeks later.

This sounds like conflict resolution styles not lining up.

And what example conflicts could you give? Where in the communication does the break down seem to happen when conflict arises?

Is it a communication problem on the sender? The introverts do not "broadcast" their wants, needs, and limits clearly?

Is it a problem on the receiver? The introverts are broadcasting, but at low volume, so the extroverts have to learn to "tune in" to their channel better?

Is it both things? Something else adding to the problems? Unknown/unrealistic expectations?

What communication method is employed? Only oral communication? Could it be a problem with the method? Are emails texts, or long-hand notes better for the visual learners? Are audio, phone, in person, oral, better for the audio learners? It seems to be more about communication issues than anything else.

Do each of you understand your polymath -- that each polyship is made up of smaller "mini relationships" inside it? And that what happens in one, can be felt in another layer?

This is a problem for me. I am often caught between them. I get pissed. I am forced to upset one.

You could encourage them to talk to each other and sort their issues with each other without a go-between (you.)

What do you mean you are "forced to upset one?" Could you give an example? Are you not willing to say "I am not willing to be the go-between. I encourage you to talk to her directly instead."

My goal is to be together and thrive! However I feel like we are just surviving.

Your goal for whom? You and Sarah in the marriage? Or all 4 in the polyship?

Do all the other players share the same goal/desire, to be together and thrive rather than merely survive?

In my thinking, there should be more communication amongst the four of us, and there is not.

Could replace "should" with "could." It then becomes...

In my thinking there could be more communication amongst the four of us...

When you do that, you open the door to collaboration.

Okay, fair enough, communication could be better. Things always could be. So... WHERE could it improve? HOW could it improve? WHAT could we do about it, as a group and individually, to support that common desire, to improve group communication? What am I doing to improve communication? What am I doing to block clear communication?

Is anyone avoiding? blaming? shaming? guilt tripping?

Sometimes people get their hackles up and get defensive when they hear "should" language. If you are in the habit of using "should" thoughtlessly, you could be shooting your own effort in the foot before you even leave the gate because you have already turned off your listener. Your "should" talk has put their defensive ears on and now every word you say will come in through that filter. You may not mean to come across as "Mr Bossyboots" but that is how you could be perceived. Could you be willing to see that possibility?

When you couch it like "the extroverts vs the introverts" you are making it be "us vs them." This could be perceived as divisive, rather than inclusive and presenting it as "there's this problem in our polyship. What could each of us do to help alleviate it?" so it is a team effort thing.

Do you know what conflict resolution style you and your poly partners have? If they are clashing styles, are you each willing to change/adapt so that conflict resolution can be smoother in this group?

Again, could read poly hell. Is Sarah experiencing demotion, displacement, intrusion? What behavior do you do to add/take away from those things? What about her?

Your mother may very well find it easier to get along with Sunny than Sarah. But she doesn't need to say it to your wife or you repeatedly. If she says it to you -- you don't need to repeat it to Sarah. You may wish for different in your head, but you could accept what you have here.

Is it loving and kind behavior to tell your wife things like that? No. You as the husband could make it clear to your family of origin that they could let it go, because it isn't kind/loving behavior toward Sarah. You could stop it also if you are doing it.

You all help to create the atmosphere/environment that you have to live in. If the climate here stinks, you could take steps to stop ADDING to the stink pile, and could take takes to TAKE AWAY old stink that accumulated.

Sort yourselves out. Take it one thing at a time. Hang in there.

Galagirl

 

[Marcus]

Mostly because the introverts don't tell us whats bothering them until weeks later.

"Passive" is the diagnosis you are looking for. The fact that she is an introvert probably has encouraged her learning these passive conflict-resolution techniques, but I assure you an introvert has exactly the same capacity to be assertive as an extrovert.

Sunny might organize something and Sarah doesn't agree with it or feels like Sunny is running her life.

Are you responsible for Sarah's relationship with Sunny?

My mother wishes she could have a closer bond with her, but it just doesn't happen.

Are you also responsible for the status of the relationship between Sarah and your mother?

There should be more communication amongst the four of us, and there is not.

Are you responsible for everyone's relationship with everyone else?

This is a problem for me. I am often caught between them. I am forced to upset one.

You seem to have found yourself in the mediator position between various relationships. It's no wonder you are frustrated. However, there is exactly one person who is to blame for this, and exactly one person who can fix it. Yep, that would be you.

My suggestions:

Stop pointing fingers.​

Stop playing mediator.​

Start saying "That's not my business and it bums me out to hear it" to every person who tries to bring you into their garbage.​

Start spending your time on something positive (hobby, job, friends, whatever).​

Google "passive communication style."​

In short, start living your life and stop worrying so much about how everyone else is living theirs.

 

[IndieSolo]

Wow, reading your posts makes me feel very sorry for Sarah that you are so highly critical of her. You would probably find fault in how she breathes. Egad. I suggest therapy or counseling so you can look at how angry you are. You come off to me as quite passive-aggressive in how you let Sunny make plans for your family and then whine and complain about Sarah for simply not wanting Sunny all up in her business. Why shouldn't Sarah want to run her own life, and not have to cater to her metamour's expectations? Sheesh! Sunny should just be responsible for her own relationship with you, and nothing more.