Unknowing entry to the poly world

U

UnderARock

New member
I have been feeling lost for a while. And here's why.

I hadn't been in a relationship for the first 23 years of my life. Honestly I had no hope I would be able to arouse anyone's interest in me. I have been vary of love for most of my life because my parents didn't have it work out and both have suffered what life brings alone.

Last summer, through work, I met a guy online who soon admitted he wanted to take care of me and that he loved me. We worked on the same project online and talked daily. As I was still in college, during the summer break we would spend days chatting on camera, working or playing games online. I, who had no trust in finding love in my life, fell for him completely.

Around June he told me he lives with another woman and that he wont allow jealousy or demands about making her leave. He didn't specify his relationship with said woman. I just assumed it was a co-worker and close friend/sister like entity. Because in my mind He wouldn't look for me if he wasn't single.
By august he had convinced me to go see him. It was a 21+ hour flight. Meeting him was like a whirlwind. I was happy, nervous and shaky and just floating in air most of the time. We stayed in a rented house for a few days and visited Disney. I'm ashamed to admit I was intimate with him after the first few days being by his side. Thinking back things went way too fast.

Anyway. He then admitted he had just had a child with the woman living with him. She and he had given the kid up for adoption just a month before I came to visit him. I was brokenhearted but still believed things were over with the woman. I held on to the feeling of being in love with him and forgave him for keeping it a secret from me.

We went to his home and I met her. It soon became obvious what sort of relationship they really had. And eventually he told me about being married too.

I felt I had been naive or just unable to see and understand the signs from things he had said when I was still talking to him online. I stayed with him for 4 months, trying to understand if the relationship I had with him could work with another woman in the picture.

I was happy for a lot of the days I spent there. I took care of the house, helped decide on food and made food with him. He gave me everything I needed to continue my online work, got me a pet fish (the most adorable white Koi with a red dot on the forehead). But I kept feeling upset when I was left to clean or work and they went to play. I had a hard time looking at him when he returned from the back room with sweat still beading on his forehead. I tried my best to look composed.
The wife was constantly upset and emotional (Blaming the post pregnancy hormones). I tried my best to be friendly to her and take care of her. Because I didn't want to be told to leave the man I had fallen for without knowing his baggage. She had health issues often. Couldn't stand for long, couldn't sit for long. I took it upon myself to try lighten the load on her shoulders as much as I could.

I was on the other side of the planet with my family all in my home country and on opposite time schedules. I couldn't talk to anyone about the sort of family I had fallen into. I got quite lonely. By the second week of December I had such homesickness we got into an argument and he left me alone for the first night. In the morning I could hear him talk to his wife and joke around like nothing was wrong. I asked to be allowed to go home once I had enough money but he bought a ticket leaving in a day. It was a huge emotional mess that could have been avoided. The flight back was miserable. Time away from him is miserable.

But I cant decide what I should do. Currently, I do not like the wife. She always seemed cold and distant. Very unmotivated to do anything as a family. Always saying things like "if you wish" with a dull face instead of saying what she really meant. I have begun to blame them for letting me get so involved with them before I was told about their relationship.

I am an emotional mess. I love him. I miss him and being with him.
But am I making a right choice to let this continue when I currently can't agree with a poly relationship? I've tried being open minded. But I'm afraid to let this continue.

I cant promise I'll like the wife eventually. I cant promise I'd be comfortable having his children while she has his children at the same time. Yes, I've heard of the "support system" but my experience is that it was I who was supporting and getting no visible effort in return.

I'm not mean enough to demand he left her. I know my place and wont ask for anything. But I don't want him out of my life quite yet. I don't want to give up on a chance of having love in my life, but is it right to do so on account of my own personal preferences? It's not like I can give him x years and then decide it wasn't meant for me after all. Even though it hurts to be apart from him, I don't want a relationship where I feel it's going to end if I don't sacrifice my beliefs and mold myself to be someone else.
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I've still got one year of college to finish. I took a leave for his sake. I feel like I should finish school and let things cool down and see if after a year he still wants me to be with him.

But is it too cruel to want to do that? When I can't even promise I'll be ok with being the second wife.
 
Never feel ashamed for wanting or having sex with someone in the way you did. You did nothing wrong.

Ease up on the wife. She just gave up a baby and her husband moved another woman in who is from a different continent, has nowhere else to go and was oblivious to everything.

Dump the guy. He doesn't care about either of you.
 
Apparently she was the one who started him on the poly lifestyle. And she apparently encouraged him to keep talking to me. It was actually her who i met (online) first (I was scouted for work by her...Even though she pretended to be a guy at work =/ )
 
Her head is probably a mess right now. Don't try to find logic in them. It's the guy who is a waste of time.. I would tell him that myself.
 
You are asking yourself all the right questions. While I know your heart wants to be with him, your intuition and logic are telling you it's a bad idea. His behavior shows that your logic and intuition are correct.

I know it's hard to hear, but this man is selfish. He lied - by omission - about his true circumstances, and it appears to me that while he tricked you into a poly relationship, he forced it upon his wife. How resentful she must have felt. And what kind of a person brings home a new woman a mere month after his wife delivered and given up a baby.

Get your education.

You will find the new love you deserve.

PS: I second London - no need to feel ashamed about sexual desire and sex. You desired him and you acted upon the desire. You didn't do anything wrong.
 
These people sound manipulative and exploitative. You were not given the CHOICE to decide if it was a situation you wanted involvement in. "I have a sexual and emotional relationship with the woman I live with, and we are going through some personal stuff right now," should have been stated clearly up front. Instead, he waited until you were emotionally invested, intimate, and in his home with him to make this clear. Then, he's having sex with his live-in right in front of you, knowing you're not comfortable with the situation? I mean, how could you be comfortable? You had no idea this was going on before you showed up, and you hardly had time to wrap your brain around it before being sucked into the center of it.

And you say the wife pretended to be a guy at work and engaged with you online, then pointed you out to the guy? Again, deceptive, manipulative, possibly psychopathic behavior. I understand that when you went to visit, she just had a baby (given up for adoption) and there's probably a lot going on with her emotionally right now, but that's all the more reason they should not have been trying to bring a new person into their situation until she is all sorted out, and certainly not an unaware/unwilling one.

Everybody wants to find love, but love means respect, caring, compassion, and it doesn't sound like this man is giving you much of that. My honest response is stay away from these soul-suckers. At the very least, take a good long time away without speaking to him or her, and really think about what just happened to you. Is that really the life you want? Do you really want to put your heart into the hands of this man?
 
He is NOT your last chance for love! Don't even think that. I believe you are better off without him and far away from that situation. You were deceived, then used, and quickly discarded when you were having a rough time. You deserve better treatment. Severing all ties with them would be a very smart, and healing, thing to do.
 
1) You're 23. Seriously. You'll find other loves.

2) There are healthy ways to practice relationships that don't involve tricking someone into a deeper attachment. Especially things like, Oh, I gave up a child for adoption with the woman I'm moving you in with...and did I mention I'm married? There may not be a RIGHT way, but that's pretty clearly a WRONG way.

3) Why are you miserable being away from him? Perhaps you're just lonely and miss affection and having someone (most people do), but you can get that satisfied from someone else. Trust us.
 
This jerk lied to you every step of the way. His behavior is appalling.

Keep in mind that what you've seen so far has been his BEST behavior, his reeling you in, 'honeymoon' behavior. If you stay, it's NOT going to get better.

Get out of this as fast as you can. Do not waste your energy 'loving' someone who treats you so badly! :mad: You're worth more than that.
 
Others have pointed out the obvious. You - as you are right now - deserve so much better than to be taken advantage of.

They lied to you repeatedly and constantly. That will not change. As WhatHappened pointed out - this is what they do when they are their BEST behavior. Don't find out what they are capable of when they don't want anything from you. End all contact immediately. You owe them nothing.

This is not love. This is taking advantage of someone who lacks the experience to know better. Now lacking experience does not make one stupid. After all, experience is how to get better judgment. You now have the experience and wisdom to do better. Trust in that.

And the statement that you cannot imagine anyone ever being interested in you breaks my heart. That also is a lie. It is not true. You are unique. You have much to offer the right person (or persons given this is a poly board). Your brain and feelings are lying to you. Please reach out to a therapist or friends (or both ideally) and address these assumptions.

Until you have a more solid sense of self-worth, unfortunately, you will likely attract predators. I do not mean that you will attract ONLY predators. But predators look for people who do not value themselves highly, may not have much experience with relationships, who are isolated and lonely, who do not have many close friends or are not connected to family. (I mention these because they tend to be common among people who become victims of predators. Only you can know if these fit you or not.) Why? Because those conditions make it easier for you to believe them.

But these conditions are not life sentences. They can be changed and you can do the changing.

One final thought. Did you pay for the plane ticket? The rented house? Are the couple financially stable, if only modestly? If so, I believe there was no pregnancy and no adoption. Predators often go for the big lie because normal sane people would never make up a lie so outrageous and so tend to believe them. I've fallen for this myself and this situation stinks to me of the big lie. Married people who have some financial means tend not to adopt out children. Could it happen? Yes but it is so unlikely, especially if they paid for your travel. The timing is perfect so you would feel sympathy for the equally disturbed wife. Who may be a victim too but reads to me like a co-conspirator.

Don't give them a year. Don't give them any more time at all. Run away from this dangerous situation.
 
@ opalescent:
The story I was given about the child was that they had planned to move continents this January and the baby would have probably suffered by it. That and the man is allergic to GMO-s and believes he has to be "clean" of any gmo food for two years before he can have a child that he would raise.
He strongly believes in the survival of the fittest and even uses animal kingdom rules to explain his poly nature.

He works from his home, she works with him. They run an online business and make enough to live comfortably. Just don't quite earn enough to fulfill their moving plans. (Since I also worked on the same project with them, a lot of my work was used and I did not get paid like I did when I was at my own home. The amount of work I did for the project was about three times more than what I'd normally do.) All plane tickets were paid by him. Only the tickets I would have needed for returning to them would have been mine to pay for.


To all:
Thank you very much for helping me. I appreciate your feedback and will take it to heart.

It is just very hard to get rid of the feeling I'm letting them down by not meeting their expectations. After the first week back in my home, he told me I was expected to return to them and to make up for the pain I had caused them with leaving their home. I was very much still confused at that time and would have done anything to stop them from hurting. I even begun applying for another visa, but never went to the interview that was supposed to take place a few weeks later. Soon I realized I was forgetting myself and my pain. After a few more weeks passed I understood I was being pulled back by guilt.

He and even the wife have uttered their wish to start anew. But I'm having a hard time believing the wife is as motivated as he is. Even though she apparently wants to try finding another woman if I don't work out.

He has begun another online project that he says is supposed to help me get a steady income and that he's trying to take care of me by doing so. That even if I cant be by him he wants to continue loving and taking care of me from afar. But that talk is always accompanied by saying he doesn't want to give up or that he still has issues playing the console games he played while I was there and that he feels like he has a hole in his life.
 
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UnderARock said:
@ opalescent:
The story I was given about the child was that they had planned to move continents this January and the baby would have probably suffered by it. That and the man is allergic to GMO-s and believes he has to be "clean" of any gmo food for two years before he can have a child that he would raise.
He strongly believes in the survival of the fittest and even uses animal kingdom rules to explain his poly nature.
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I find it really hard to believe any couple just gives up their own child like that when they're able to care for it. What does being clean of GMOs have to do with 'a child he would raise.' Does he think there's something wrong with said child and he'll only accept perfect? Do you really want to be with, and at the mercy of, someone who believes in survival of the fittest and models his behavior on the animal kingdom and such a theory? PUT AS MUCH DISTANCE AS YOU CAN BETWEEN YOURSELF AND THIS GUY.


(Since I also worked on the same project with them, a lot of my work was used and I did not get paid like I did when I was at my own home. The amount of work I did for the project was about three times more than what I'd normally do.)
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What does this mean? Did you get paid at all? Did you get 'paid' in living in their home and being allowed to do their housework?

It is just very hard to get rid of the feeling I'm letting them down by not meeting their expectations.
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They didn't meet yours. Not only was it a pack of lies, but the guy apparently didn't even pay you for the work he hired you for.



After the first week back in my home, he told me I was expected to return to them and to make up for the pain I had caused them with leaving their home.
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Expected to? I didn't realize there was still a king of Persia. /sarcasm. You've known this guy what, six or seven months, since last summer, right? He's lied to you, he's lured you in under false pretenses, he hasn't paid you for the work he hired you to do, and now he's issuing decrees? RUN RUN RUN.

He has begun another online project that he says is supposed to help me get a steady income and that he's trying to take care of me by doing so.
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Tell him to pay you upfront for the last work you did for him, first.

Do your parents know about this guy? What is your relationship with your parents and family?

Please, stay away from this sub-human. He's lied to you from the start. He's a con artist. Something is very off with the two of them. There are red flags everywhere. And unless you have money to get yourself out of there, you'll be at their mercy if you go back.
 
holy cow. I mean, wow.

There's not much more to add to what's been said. Stay away. Break off contact. Don't respond. Use the Kafka Romance Dissolver method and ... MOVE ON. There can be no good found here. I'm sorry it's come to this, but these people are NOT going to be good for you. Con man doesn't begin to describe what's going on...

[ Kafka Romance Dissolver? Click on this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=FO...1#v=onepage&q=kafka romance dissolver&f=false

and scroll up a bit to the question... ]
 
Run underarock. Run far away from these screwed up people.

They gave AWAY A CHILD BECAUSE IT WASN'T PERFECT. They thew away a small helpless person for an insane reason. They didn't pick adoption because they were in a bad place or etc.That baby dodged a bullet.


These people are mentally abusive. You have to make up the pain they caused you? Honey there are plenty of better people out there without having to settle for a man with Hitleresque views of superiority .
 
Danger! Steer clear!

This may be hard to read. I mean it all kindly ok? :eek:


Promise nothing. Finish your schooling and keep away from this guy!

He's tactic hopping and applying loads of FOG -- fear obligation and guilt. Stay strong!

He took advantage of your trust.

Give it more time for internal weather to clear. This is a HUGE load that just happened. You just got back, free from him and his wacky in body, but he's still trying to suck you back in by making contact.

You are not 100% free of him yet. So of course your emotions are still in upheaval and confused. It's going to take a while to feel better because it is fresh and not over yet. There's no shame in asking for help to process. You already did it by posting here. But this is beyond the scope of Internet people or normal dating problems. This is NOT NORMAL. This is lies, manipulation, emotional/mental abuse. Stay strong, don't go back. Talk to your family in real life, and ask them to help you find a counselor.

I'm afraid to let this continue.
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You are correct to be afraid. This is not polyshipping. This is lies, manipulation, emotional abuse, mental abuse... ugh. Do not let it continue. Do not go back.

My experience is that it was I who was supporting and getting no visible effort in return.
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You are correct. Not worth the return on your investment. You put in X and got back UGH.

Even though it hurts to be apart from him, I don't want a relationship where I feel it's going to end if I don't sacrifice my beliefs and mold myself to be someone else.
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That is correct too. Love will find you without you having to change your whole self. THIS IS NOT LOVE. This is lies, manipulation, abuse, etc.

I've still got one year of college to finish. I took a leave for his sake. I feel like I should finish school and let things cool down and see if after a year he still wants me to be with him.
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YES! But I grey out anything related to him. Focus on YOUR health. Be "self full -- meet your needs first. Then meet the needs of others you care to meet." Could change that back part to "give ME a year to see if I still want to be with lies, manipulations, mental and emotional abuse."

But is it too cruel to want to do that?
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For who? You?

NO! It is not CRUEL to consider your own needs before other people.

I am so sorry you experienced this! :(

You do not deserve this treatment. You deserve better treatment. You seem to know it and managed to get away. GOOD FOR YOU!

You are under no obligation to serve selfish/abusive/controlling people at your expense.

This is not polyshipping. He lied and manipulated you all along.

Of course it feels hard right now. You are digesting a heavy load. Now that your are home with family? Not half a world away? Give your mind, heart, and spirit the gift of time to catch up to where your body is now.

But know this is NOT NORMAL dating behavior. You do not have to go back.

When someone wants you to meet their needs at the expense of your own health and well being? That is called being selfish.

You are responsible for your own health and well being, and you have a duty to yourself to attend to that FIRST. That is called being self-full -- when you attend to your needs first and then to the needs of others you want to tend to next in a balanced way.

You do not have to ABANDON caring for your own self and neglect your own care to serve others -- that is called being selfless. That way of going is not healthy for you. Guard against it and any selfish person trying to make you be selfless and forget about your own needs.

It is just very hard to get rid of the feeling I'm letting them down by not meeting their expectations.
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Are the expectations reasonable, realistic, and consider your best healths? Nope.

You have had a HUGE shocker of an experience. It will take time to process and heal from it. If you need help from a counselor to process appropriately, please consider getting one. Do NOT go back into isolation a world away from your people.

It is normal to feel gross under the circumstances. That feeling is not "you letting them down" -- that's sounding like him talking trying to label the feeling for you. Rather than letting you have time and space to get around to labeling it for yourself.

I think the feeling you are feeling could be called "huge disappointment -- and digesting that YOU have been let down by someone you trusted, the very first time you allowed yourself to trust and open yourself to loving relationship."

I can guess it probably feels very confusing right now, but confusion is not unexpected when you have suffered shock of betrayal. You JUST got back. You experiencing yucky feelings does not mean YOU stink. It means THIS EXPERIENCE stunk for you.

After the first week back in my home, he told me I was expected to return to them and to make up for the pain I had caused them with leaving their home.
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Cool. He can expect you to return to them. All he wants. And he can watch you not coming!

You are under no obligation to meet his want.

You do not have to meet all people's expectations -- even the unreasonable, unrealistic expectations. NO. You will not be returning to his home to apologize for leaving a toxic environment to take a safe time out space closer to your own people and complete your own studies.

Make effort to keep your thoughts clear even when he's playing mind games.

When you live in his house, you can't be free from his influence.
When you live over here? You could always cut contact and be free of him. Any time you like. You seem to know what you need. Just seem to need validatation and encouragement to keep STAYING AWAY.

You were already isolated once before. Could not sign up for that again. This man's behaviors toward you do not support your well being. He lies, manipulates your trust, just ugh all around.

You could choose to support your well being by getting familiar with control tactics -- learn to spot that stuff dead in the water. Some people are predatory. Not everyone in the dating pool is a nice person. Some people are sharks.

I suggest you keep doing what you are doing -- staying away! You made a good call in getting your body away from there!
Give it time for you to be become more able to "get away in mind, heart, and spirit" too. Let the rest of you catch up!

Get a counselor if you need more support and process all this appropriately but stick to what you are already doing! Stick with what you said but scrub out all the hims. Put YOU in there:

  • I don't want (to be in) a relationship where I must sacrifice my beliefs and mold myself to be someone else.
  • I've still got one year of college to finish. I want to finish school and let things cool down.
Totally doable, and totally supports YOUR health and well-being. DO IT. That is my suggestion for your short term health.

Put your well being as top priority -- you took a ding. Secure help, resources, aid, time to help YOU heal and process from that experience, but moving forward? Do that stuff.

For your long term health in regards to dating life? After you have healed from this? Worry about that at THAT time. Maybe even work with counselor to figure out "healthy dating" from "unhealthy dating."

This is NOT healthy dating with him. :( I hope you continue to be safe away from there.

Taking time to form your healthy boundaries and developing your intrapersonal and interpersonal skills is a good thing. A good investment in your health and well being. Please take good care of you.

Namaste,
Galagirl
 
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Run! Please!

UnderARock said:
@ opalescent:
The story I was given about the child was that they had planned to move continents this January and the baby would have probably suffered by it. That and the man is allergic to GMO-s and believes he has to be "clean" of any gmo food for two years before he can have a child that he would raise.
He strongly believes in the survival of the fittest and even uses animal kingdom rules to explain his poly nature.
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Oh, UnderARock, there was never a baby. She was never pregnant. A child was not adopted out by them. That baby never existed.

This is a classic big lie on top of big lie. The first big lie is that they gave up a baby a month before you lived with them. That lie's purpose was to make you sympathetic to the wife and want to help her with housework and such. The secondary big lie is the utterly ridiculous explanation. Sane married people NEVER give up a child because of an impending move. NEVER. They have the child and adjust plans accordingly. They save up, they have tight times, but they figure it out. They move in 5 years instead of 1. Or they get loans or help from family. Whatever. They don't make the permanent decision to give up a child forever.

And sane people never give up a child because of GMOs! EVER! That sentence alone reeks of the seriously disturbed. I am concerned about GMOs too but I would never get rid of a child I helped create because of that.

When I was a year older than you, I met this amazing woman. She was super smart, so funny, attractive, and we had an instant, strong connection. She said she had a degenerative disease - she was sometimes in a wheelchair, sometimes not. As we grew closer, she told me her parents had abused her. She had multiple personalities - and those personalities all interacted with me. She also had a child, a little boy, who was brutally murdered. She had pictures of him, details about his life, the whole horrible story of his murder and what it did to her. I fell so hard in love with her. I wanted to be with her for the rest of my life. I adored her. We almost started dating. However, she pulled back and we were never romantically involved. But we remained friends.

I will never know why she didn't date me. Maybe she wasn't really interested. Maybe she didn't want to hurt me. I don't know.

But about six months after she started dating someone else seriously, she called me and told me that everything she had told me was a total and complete lie. She did not have any diseases and never really needed a wheelchair. Her parents never abused her. She did not have multiple personalities. She had never had a boy who was murdered. Never existed. The photos were stock photos of a random child. The details were all made up. Just about her entire life story was a lie.

I was utterly devastated. I cut off all contact and remained furious with her for decades. It took me decades to recover. I lost trust in my ability to know truth from lie. I lost trust in myself overall. I did recover, and meeting my very trustworthy ex-wife helped heal a lot of the damage.

This woman was clearly mentally ill and really disturbed. However, she wasn't actually a predator. Just someone who was seriously messed up mentally. She didn't want anything from me. She didn't want money or support or sex. If she had, I would have done what she wanted. I would have given her money, supported her, helped around the house, been in a relationship with her, whatever she wanted. I was that in love and that blind.

There were red flags all around this situation that I just missed or ignored because I was so in love and lacked experience, because I was naive, because I never thought that anyone would lie to that degree. And because I wanted to be loved, even if that love was platonic. I had been in one very short relationship by then. I seriously doubted that I would ever find love, that anyone would love me back.

I've been in your shoes, UnderARock. I've fallen hard for the seriously disturbed and been seriously damaged as a result.

The couple you describe are actually predators. They do want something from you. They want to use your labor to their benefit. You will not get paid for your work. They want you to do housework and generally cater to the wife. He wants to fuck you. Maybe her too. They have their best interests at heart. They will never have your best interests in mind. They are not capable of that.

They are already emotionally abusive and manipulative. This is not love. This is emotional manipulation. This is not how healthy sane people act when they love someone.

You are not safe with them. Do not go back. Your inability to go get a visa is your subconscious trying to save you from harm. Listen to your deepest instincts. They are telling you to run. Break off all contact immediately. Find other work. Block them on all social media. Change your email address. Change your phone number.

I am quite serious. These people are dangerous. I am terrified for you if you return to their house. They are already mentally and emotionally abusive. It won't be long until they physically hurt you. I fear for your survival if you go back.

A potentially useful article for you: http://aftermath-surviving-psychopathy.org/index.php/2011/02/24/this-charming-psychopath-how-to-spot-social-predators-before-they-attack/.
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UnderARock said:
It is just very hard to get rid of the feeling I'm letting them down by not meeting their expectations.
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Would it help to keep telling yourself that their expectations are batshit insane? They can expect anything they want; that doesn't mean you are responsible for fulfilling those expectations.
 
Do some research on psychopaths/sociopaths. I'd guess you've found yourself a pair. What a couple of whackjobs!
 
Please don't go back and don't worry about how they feel. I can tell you exactly how they feel: disappointed their prey has gotten away, desparate to get back the free work for their own benefit, sad that they don't have a free maid anymore, and possibly even angry that you're not jumping right back in. She was no more pregnant than she was a man when she contacted you. She conned you just as much as he did. You are NOT the bad guy here, though they will do their best to try to convince you that you are. You have described classic sociopathic behavior and you're lucky you've gotten away. Please give yourself time away from them to heal. Cut off all contact, and if they persist in trying to contact you, report them to the police. You are not safe with them.
 
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