Very Confused-- Quad Attempt

[Cryptoboy]

So, my wife (Silk) and I are new to polyamory. (Bet you never head that before. )

We've been swinging for about three years now and that's how we got brought into polyamory. We had a brief experience about a year and half ago with a couple who were just starting out, which ended in disaster. Basically, the guy was telling each of us two different things, and trying to push us apart. So as you can imagine, we shied away from anything along those lines.

Well, we moved to Vegas back in February, and after some adjustment, started looking for swinging couples to have fun with a few months ago. We typically prefer more of consistent thing. We are never really looking for people to "notch our bedposts," but people we could have fun with more than just sexually. Silk and I are both highly sexual, and (wrong or right), it's an important part of our relationship, as well as our other experiences.

We met a couple, Dan and June, towards the end of May, and all four of us had a strong connection. Dan started asking Silk about polyamory. Of course that made us a little nervous, based on our prior experience, but we got past it and continued to let things proceed.

Things continued to get stronger and stronger. We booked a suite for the weekend with them, which was probably one of the most amazing weekends ever, from a sexual and emotional standpoint. We had them over a lot. We went to their place. We introduced them to friends/family (which we'd never done before with a swinging couple). About a month ago, right before we all started travelling (for work, or separately going home to visit our families, etc.), Dan and Silk admitting they had loving feelings for each other. I was having similar feelings towards June, but we hadn't expressed it at that point.

My "normal" feelings would've been jealousy, but this time there wasn't any of that.

We all do our travelling. June and I talk several times a day. She was in KS and I was CO. I even went to see her at the airport in Colorado Springs, and as she hugged me goodbye she said she loved me. That was about a week and a half ago.

Silk and June were both home before us. They had the "green light" to hang out, as well as be physical, which they did, and it was cool, at least on my side. When you read further, we wonder if June wasn't as okay with it as she initially let on.

After we all got home last weekend, things started to sour. We were all looking forward to a great reunion, or so I thought. The one time we did see the other couple, June was obviously not wanting to be there, or do anything. Most of this past week, she's been barely responsive, and flat out not interested in sex.

Thursday, June and Dan had a long discussion, and what basically came out of it was that she wants to pursue a relationship with a woman, completely independently of Dan. She wants the four of us to remain friends, but the sexual side, while not off the table, is not to be the norm. So basically, the love she expressed for me last week was more of a friendship love (not sure how to put that).

As you can imagine, I'm crushed. I've only opened up and expressed my love for three people (my ex-wife, Silk and June). While I have cared for the other women in our swinging experiences, nothing was like this for me.

While she still has feelings for Dan, June doesn't really want to pursue it anymore either, because I'm hurt. And she's hurt too; she was feeling pretty close to June. She was first woman she ever fully had sex with, and was basically told she wasn't lesbian enough.

The four of us have said all along that it's more or less an all or nothing thing; if someone isn't happy, that we all work to address it, or the situation would change. Well, that has happened, but June still wants us around. It's almost like she wants to have her cake and eat it too.

My point? No clue, really...

I guess I'm just looking for some constructive criticism. I've already had my heart yanked out in the past 24 hours, so I can deal. LOL

The logical thing would be to cut and run, I guess, but the emotional side is torn. Part of me wants to continue, at least for Silk and Dan, because they have been happy (especially Silk, which has made it good for us too), but I'm not sure if I can, and watch it be one-sided either (given how this is ending up looking, at least).

So am I being selfish? Is June? Was this just too complicated a situation from the start? Should I just take what I can get, and hope for the best?

 

[gwendolenthefair]

Here are some thoughts of mine, in no particular order:

1. I have noticed that an awful lot of bisexual poly people only want ONE partner of each gender. It's quite possible that June was one of those. She was more interested in the relationship with Silk, and went along with things with you so she could make things happen with her. And then, when Silk wasn't her ideal sex partner, she moved on to someone else.

2. June should not have told you she loved you if she wasn't feeling romantic love towards you. That was wrong, and cruel.

3. There may be things you don't know about the relationship between Dan and June. One of them may have gotten upset at the emotional pace of the relationship in one of the pairings, and wanted to back off. One of them may be having sexual dysfunction. Their marriage could be rocky. June could be having a sexual identity crisis. It's impossible to say what might really be going on.

My husband and I dated another couple for a few months ourselves, believing their relationship to be solid, and then their marriage imploded in their next quad experience with some friends of ours, and our friends' relationship was a casualty too.

4. Quads are one of the trickiest poly relationship dynamics, because so many things need to work. I would love to have a successful one myself, but I think it's a long shot.

5. Getting put on the shelf just sucks, and I'm sorry that happened to you.

 

[jkelly]

The four of us have said all along that it's more or less an all or nothing thing; if someone isn't happy, that we all work to address it or the situation would change. Well that has happened but June still wants us around. It's almost like she wants to have her cake and eat it too.

I think that I'll defend June a bit, at least on this point. It's important for people to ask for exactly what they want in relationships. If what June wants with you is a friendship (or a friendship with occasional benefits), she wouldn't be doing you any favours to pretend otherwise. And there's nothing wrong with trying to renegotiate dynamics. You're suggesting that what she wants doesn't work for you, which is fine, but she shouldn't be faulted for being clear about what she can and can't offer right now.

Also, people's feelings are often mutable. People meet, get involved, and then things stop working well, or feeling right for one person, sometimes suddenly.

I understand that you attach a lot of importance to declarations of love, but not everyone does. It's totally possible she was expressing a connection she felt that had developed in those two and a half months, but which she is either no longer feeling, or she feels she needs to back away from. As Gwendolyn suggested, there could be all sorts of things going on that you don't know about that are influencing June's feelings and thinking.

I'd encourage you to let the relationship between Silk and Dan develop, if it's making them happy and working out. You may find that in time things sort themselves out into a dynamic that works well for everyone.

 

[Cryptoboy]

Thanks, Gwen. Silk and I kind of wonder if your #3 part had something to do with it. It seemed to start getting a little weird after Silk and Dan first expressed their love was blossoming. June was starting to get down, but we were assuming it was just being apart from Dan, as well as us. I'll admit it wasn't super easy for me, but I knew they cared for each other, and everyone seemed happy. And I trusted Dan. I rarely really trust men. So that made it a good thing. I knew (at the time), while June and I hadn't hit that level, that we both had very strong feelings for each other, but both of us tended to be more reserved about admitting that. Of course, looking back now, maybe I was way off.

Their marriage appeared to be stable. In some ways, I almost thought it was more stable than my marriage, as they seemed to be at a comfort level in the swing lifestyle, as newbies, while it took us a few years to really get to the comfort level we are now.

They're still saying that we are the couple they want to be with and have a relationship with, just basically that June wants to attach another relationship, with a women, independent of the four of us, or Dan. I guess it would've been easier to figure out if it would be either they want to be with us fully, or not. If it had just been our regular swinging experience, it would've been easier to say good luck and we'll hopefully get to spend time together.

 

[Cryptoboy]

I think that I'll defend June a bit, at least on this point. It's important for people to ask for exactly what they want in relationships. If what June wants with you is a friendship (or a friendship with occasional benefits), she wouldn't be doing you any favours to pretend otherwise. And there's nothing wrong with trying to renegotiate dynamics. You're suggesting that what she wants doesn't work for you, which is fine, but she shouldn't be faulted for being clear about what she can and can't offer right now.

Also, people's feelings are often mutable. People meet, get involved, and then things stop working well or feeling right for one person, sometimes suddenly. I understand that you attach a lot of importance to declarations of love, but not everyone does. It's totally possible June was expressing a connection she felt that had developed in those two and a half months, but that she is either no longer feeling or she feels she needs to back away from. As Gwendolyn suggested, there could be all sorts of things going on that you don't know about that are influencing her feelings and thinking.

I'd encourage you to let the relationship between Silk and Dan develop, if it's making them happy and working out. You may find that in time things sort themselves out into a dynamic that works well for everyone.

I don't disagree with you on that. While hard to hear, it's better to have that put out there, and clarified, and not try to hide/avoid it. What makes it hard is coming up with that a week after saying she loved me. The declaration of love was/is something that is tough to admit/say for me, but it was for June, too.

One part (kind of a big one) about Silk and Dan's relationship was involving the four of us. While June and I were both travelling, for example, last week, Silk and Dan hung out every day and had sex a few times. That didn't bother me, and June said she was ok with it. I'm not sure if that was true based on how she was when she got home. While they had fun, they both agreed that it didn't feel "complete" without the four of us there for the sexual part.

My relationship with Silk is also based on a level of evenness. Right or wrong, that's what we determined early on what worked best for us. Whether it was with finances, Twizzlers in the bag, swinging, it was about being equal for us.

We never "took one for the team," as it were, in the lifestyle. If one of us didn't like the other, then we moved on. Like I said, right or wrong, that's how we work, and it's worked for 9 years that way.

I haven't said to her not to continue the friendship. I've said she should continue training with him. (He's a personal trainer.) And if they want to hang out, that's fine, as long as it doesn't interfere with his family or ours.

The continued sex part is uncertain.

At this point, we both want to meet other people, too. (We're not models or anything like that, but we've never actually had to search for new couples on the sites; we've always been messaged first.) Plus we are going to LA to spend Labor Day weekend with another couple we've known for awhile. (If we had stayed in AZ, we might have had a relationship with them.)

 

[redpepper]

Should I just take what I can get, and hope for the best?

Sorry, I haven't read anything that anyone else has said, so if there are repeats, please excuse me.

As for the above quote, I have noticed that this is a common theme with swingers that find themselves "falling in love" with those they swing with, and find themselves at the door of poly. I don't think it's bad or anything, just an observation.

From my experience, and what I have read on this forum and elsewhere, there seems to be a rush of emotion when people are sexually compatible that those people seem to think is for keeps. Maybe its the serotonin rush that one gets that makes people feel like they are "in love," maybe it's for real, or it can be a bit of both.

I have no doubt that this woman to whom you expressed your love loved you in the moment. She got off sexually, got connected and felt "love." The thing is, when reality struck, she was done and moved on. There is nothing wrong with that, but it hurt you.

Be more cautious next time. "Take what you can get and hope for the best" would be the answer here, perhaps, or maybe you are really poly and want/need to pursue something more real.

Just another thought-- you don't know them well, and chances are that you don't really know what'd going on in their relationship. You only caught the good stuff.

Also, why shouldn't June have other lovers? If she is poly or the like, then she would be more than able to have other love interests and it not influence how she feels about you.

 

[Cryptoboy]

I haven't read anything that anyone else has said, so if there are repeats, please excuse me.

As for the above quote, I have noticed that this is a common theme with swingers that find themselves "falling in love" with those they swing with and find themselves at the door of poly. I don't think it's bad or anything, just an observation.

From my experience and what I have read, there seems to be a rush of emotion when people are sexually compatible that those people seem to think is for keeps. Maybe it's the serotonin rush that one gets that makes people feel all in love? Maybe it's for real. Chances are it's a bit of both.

I have no doubt that this woman to whom you expressed your love, loved you in the moment. She got off sexually, got connected and felt "love." The thing is, when reality struck, she was done and moved on. There is nothing wrong with that, but it hurt you. Be more cautious next time. "Take what you can get and hope for the best" would be the answer here, perhaps, or maybe you are really poly and want/need to pursue something more real.

You don't know them well. Shances are that you don't really know what's going on in their relationship. Also, why shouldn't she have other lovers? If she is poly or the like, then she would be more than able to have other love interests and it not influence how she feels about you.

We've gotten close to another couple before, but there wasn't that same type of connection that occurred here. Actually we're still friends with that couple and are going to see them in LA soon.

I guess what makes this difficult too is that it's not really off the table. If would be one thing if June were just flat-out saying she only wanted to be with Dan, and this hypothetical women she might eventually meet, but that's not the case. From a couples perspective, they only want to be with us along those lines. As she put it, she wants us to be friends first, and still wants the four of us to hang out, and if we get charged up, then we can all get it on, with no pressure to have sex every time er hung out.

We've talked about this before, but the majority of the time the sexual energy is so charged up we all would end up jumping each other. Even when we tried just meeting in public, we still ended up back at our house a few times.

I'm just not sure how to go from something that started off as a sexual friendship, and started to blossom into more than that, to just a friendship with the occasional hook-up.

As far as the relationship of Silk and Dan goes, because I've been so upset, she's been ready to call it off. I told her I certainly don't want that to happen. I want her to continue to talk with him. (And again, he's also her personal trainer.) And if they want to hang out like before (meet up for coffee or a slushy at Sonic a few times a week, go shopping, go to a movie, etc.) that's fine too.

The sex part of it-- either the two of them solo (which isn't as good as the four of us together), or a MFM threesome, is off the table for the moment. But since Dan and June are struggling in some ways with their relationship, that's probably best all around.

You make a good point, Redpepper. We don't know much about their relationship. Maybe it's not as strong as it initially appeared.

As far as the other lovers, if June is really poly (to be honest, I still don't know if Silk or I are yet), and if it doesn't influence how she is or feels about me, then it might still work out.

Keep in mind that (as I described to Silk yesterday), it was kind of like getting hit with a brick on Friday. I was kind of numb at first. Then yesterday it sunk in, and I was trying to deal with it.

I don't get upset all that often (truly upset, at least), but it freaked me out. I went through a whole range of emotions yesterday; from thinking, "Fuck them, they can rot in hell," to, "Let's go find another couple-- that'll show them!" to, "Why is this happening to me??" You name it, it probably crossed my mind at some point. I'm not saying it's not painful still, but it'll be easier to deal with and understand as my emotions get back to normal.