Walking and Falling

I think I've figured out that my wife is drawn to poly because it lets her have all the advantages of leaving me without losing her health insurance.

I thought she more or less told you that, or strongly implied that, when she said she wanted to use you as home base. At the time, I was thinking-- good laundry equipment, a place to park all her stuff, something comfortable to return to. Insurance didn't even enter my mind, but it makes sense now, especially with her allergy/breathing issue.

Just out of curiosity, what's your current relationship dynamic? Is it a V or a W? The reason I ask there's another thread on MFM vs FMF Vs, and we got into a discussion on "settling," and the ease or difficulty for men to develop FMF in-house Vs. If you have the time and interest, I think people would appreciate your perspective.

Good luck,
DH
 
Been through this, whether mono/poly. I think there are some people who just care too much, feel too much, want too much and give too much. And somewhere we lose sight of ourselves and what we need. It is a learning curve. I guess if we can't be other people, we have to figure out how to be ourselves with less pain.
 
I think I've figured out that my wife is drawn to poly because it lets her have all the advantages of leaving me without losing her health insurance.

No ACA where you are? Seriously - ACA helped me and Woof get to a place where the divorce we wanted philosophically would be "safe" and practical.

It is *so* much nicer to be chosen family than to be legally encumbered with each other. And I'm still so glad we divorced when we still wanted to be together. May have saved our relationship, actually.
 
Is this the sort of relationship you want to continue to have?

It's the relationship I have, the situation in which I am stuck. It is not a fount of happiness, for sure, but what I want is not the only issue.

Promises mean something, and they impose binding obligations even if they are not reciprocated. Given our history together, all the things she gave up to follow me around earlier in my career, and that it still matters to me that she is safe and happy, I would be a real rat bastard if I just cut her off now.

Then, I need to think of our children. With one going off to college this year and one starting high school, it seems especially important not to upend our household and our finances just now . . . and for at least the next eight years.

The status quo sucks, but it provides at least a baseline of stability for the two of them, until they are well launched into the world.

(They're very self-aware, and very aware of the dynamic in their parents' relationship. They tend to roll their eyes and sigh when discussing their mothers' . . . foibles and her frequent absences. I find myself defending her, at least to the point of urging them to be patient, to try to understand where her . . . foibles might come from.)

As I see it, this is the kind of bind that becomes inevitable when a married couple tries to renegotiate the terms of their marriage, on their own: There is no way to avoid tragic choices and bad compromises.
 
No ACA where you are? Seriously - ACA helped me and Woof get to a place where the divorce we wanted philosophically would be "safe" and practical.

You are joking, right?

As it happens, I live in a state that, shall we say, did not rush to embrace the ACA.

Even if I did, the ACA was always a bad compromise that set up a profoundly unstable system . . . and one that the current administration seems intent on undermining, with or without Congress.

Then, there's the fact that the ACA did not change one of the basic premises of healthcare in America, which is that good insurance is one of those rights or privileges largely tied to the institution of monogamous marriage.

The only condition under which health-care policy might help in my situation is if the country moved to a single-payer plan in which every individual - as an individual - had adequate coverage.

And, when that happens, I will personally invite all of you to an ice-skating party in Hell, where we will be entertained by aerial stunts performed by pigs.
 
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Just out of curiosity, what's your current relationship dynamic, a V or a W? There's another thread on MFM vs FMF Vs, and we got into a discussion on "settling" and the ease or difficulty for men to develop FMF in-house Vs. If you have the time and interest, I think people would appreciate your perspective.

As far as I know, it's a V. I'm not involved with anyone, and expect never to be involved with anyone.

Even if it were plausible to think anyone would be interested, I could not in good conscience ask or expect someone to be a side-dish.

I don't know whether my wife's other guy is involved with anyone else, and I don't much care. I long ago requested a DADT arrangement, which is easier to maintain since it's a long-distance relationship.

I really just couldn't stand hearing how nice her relationship is and what a wonderful time she has when she's there with him, while I'm here eating ashes by the handful.
 
As far as I know, it's a V. I'm not involved with anyone, and expect never to be involved with anyone.

Even if it were plausible to think anyone would be interested, I could not in good conscience ask or expect someone to be a side-dish.

I don't know whether my wife's other guy is involved with anyone else, and I don't much care. I long ago requested a DADT arrangement, which is easier to maintain since it's a long-distance relationship.

I really just couldn't stand hearing how nice her relationship is and what a wonderful time she has when she's there with him, while I'm here eating ashes by the handful.

Interesting choice of words. It's exactly how I ended up feeling with XBF. A side dish. He got very agitated and upset when I said it (after telling me I could tell and ask him anything.) He couldn't explain how I wasn't a side dish to the main course he had at home. So he just got agitated and yelled, "How could you possibly think that of me!" and "Don't you know how I feel!"

I think the problem is--feelings may be genuine and deep. But as you say, time is finite. Resources are finite. You can give the home, the shared life, the shared bank account, the life insurance, the promise to retire together, the health insurance, the legal acknowledgement to one person or another.

I've seen many men on these forums feel as you do: why is any woman going to settle for...effectively being a side dish? Never really getting to fully share a life together? I've seen many men give up because even when they find someone, it's very common the wife has an issue with the girlfriend.

I'm sorry things have been so bad, and I hope you find happiness.
 
I think the problem is--feelings may be genuine and deep. But as you say, time is finite. Resources are finite. You can give the home, the shared life, the shared bank account, the life insurance, the promise to retire together, the health insurance, the legal acknowledgement to one person or another.

Yep. This is it, precisely. Our entire society, including many of its rights and entitlements and privileges, is built around monogamous couples bound in the institution of marriage.

That has its advantages as well as its disadvantages but, in any case, it's a powerful institution that tends to perpetuate itself and quash dissent.

I consider myself well and truly quashed.

To borrow a metaphor sometimes applied to other kinds of systems, the institution of monogamy has a strong electromagnetic field around it that tends to pull things back into alignment if they drift askew.

These days, I tend to focus on the advantages of the institution, as it can foster "care-taking, faith-keeping, kindness, neighborliness, and peace" (as Wendell Berry puts it) against the ravages of selfishness and raw libido.

As individuals acting entirely on our own feelings and needs and desires, it's difficult to maintain the kind of steadfastness that social cohesion and basic human decency requires. Institutions, at their best, serve to keep us on track, to steady us from outside.

Not perfectly, of course; never perfectly.

But until and unless the institution of marriage itself changes - through the emergence of a new society-wide consensus and the crafting of new laws and norms of conduct - any attempt by people already married to practice polyamory while remaining decent human beings to all involved will be an exercise in futility.

As for the advantages of monogamy, well, like the song says, you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.
 
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Your writings have given me a lot to think about, HyperSkeptic. I know you didn't do it for me, but thank you. In contrast to all the glowing advice we see on this forums for polyamory, your tale speaks to caution. It has had a deep influence on me.

Thank you for sharing,
Shaya.
 
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