What kind of pickle did I get myself into?

[Missgt]

All right, I thought I had posted this earlier, but I haven't seen it, so here goes Take 2. I could really use some advice on this and would welcome feedback.

I am 28 years old, a wife, a mother, and pretty new to polyamory. I have been married 9 years. We have dabbled in swinging for the past 4 years. We've recently discovered that perhaps polyamory is more suited to us. We both can appreciate the emotional and intellectual connection that comes from someone else.

This being said, my husband, Kai, actually found an amazing woman right about the time we were making this decision, which is absolutely great. He is such an introvert, and if he hadn't met her, I would probably be worrying that he wouldn't find someone. But nope, he used his nerdy charm and wooed her off her feet. He laid all the cards on the table, that he had a wife and kids, and no intention of leaving us. Ideally, he wants us both. I think that Brook (as I will call her) is an amazing woman. I am so happy he found her. She is recently divorced, with two children of her own.

My situation is a good deal stickier. I have a group of people I associate with (we play sports, see comedians, etc.) that is mostly made of single people. None of them really know anything about my personal life. This being said, I hadn't 'dated' anyone inside this group, so it didn't really matter. I discussed with my husband that I intended to kind of 'practice' dating, since I was very out of practice. (He and I met very young and were married within a year.) I told him in advance that this practice wouldn't involve me delving into our personal details, but really getting more into how to flirt again, etc.

And then a really great guy from the group, Darcy, asked me out, and I said yes. Ugh... he is amazing, intelligent, romantic, and very attentive. But his personality is definitely not one that would seek out polyamory or, I think, really accept it.

I talked to Kai about this earlier today. He said eventually I would have to tell Darcy, or not, and/or break it off, or I could let it run its course, which may not be that long. I feel awful, because Darcy doesn't know about a fairly substantial part of my life. But at the same time, I value the few dates we have had and would like to see him longer.

His personality screams monogamy. I think that me telling him the truth would hurt him very much. So, to me, that leaves me two options-- break it off and don't tell him the full truth, or keep him a little more at a distance, enjoy time with him, and let it run its course.

Advice? Anyone ever dated someone your spouse knew about, who didn't know about your spouse?

Also... I am not trying to offend anyone here, but I feel like the few poly men I do find on websites, etc., are very... creepy? Or far older than me? Having a little dating practice now, I would very much like to start something out with honesty.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Woah woah woah! It's not okay to "practice" with someone's heart.

You're right, Darcy is going to get hurt one way or the other. The question now is how.

Option one. You break up with him and lie about why. There's every chance he'll realize that your reasons for breaking it off don't quite add up, and he'll be left wondering what the real reason was, and without a sense of resolution. But hey, that happens often in the dating world, no big deal, right? Actually, sometimes it can hurt a lot. Chances are good he'll get over it just fine, though.

But what if he finds out you were married the whole time? I can't imagine it would take that much digging to find that out. Any jilted lover can be forgiven just a tiny amount of forlorn stalking (googling your name, asking people about you, that sort of thing). How shocked and betrayed will he be to find out that you lied to him like that? Plus, he will naturally assume that Kai doesn't know, and he may feel guilty for participating in the "betrayal" of your husband, on top of everything else. What a cruel load of crap to put on someone you supposedly like.

Option two, you let it run its course, which I can only presume means you think in time he will break up with you, or you two will naturally drift apart. Now, here you get some, though not quite all, of the potential painful fallout from option one. But what if it goes the other way? What if more time together leads to one or both of you growing closer to the other, maybe even falling in love? Feelings are unpredictable, after all. At this point, discovering the lie, either by accident, or by you telling him, will be a million times more painful then it would have been in option one, a truly terrible bombshell.

Option three, you tell him now, the very next time you see him. You apologize profusely for not bringing it up before and explain that you were afraid. You say that you expect that he will probably want to break up, but if he's willing to consider the idea of continuing dating, you'd be happy to introduce him to Kai, so he can be assured that things are on the up and up. You actually practice polyamory, which is about honesty, rather than lying and toying with someone else's feelings.

Do the brave, hard and RIGHT thing here, Missgt. Give Darcy a chance to make his own decision. I can certainly see why you would want to find an easier way out. No one wants to be the bad guy, and chances are he'll see it that way when you tell him. It's an uncomfortable situation, no doubt. But you can do this, and this is the ONLY way that he can learn the truth (and really, you may find the idea unlikely, but he *could* find out even if you don't tell him) in a manner that lets you have a *chance* of retaining his respect. Maybe a friendship can be salvaged, even if he doesn't want to keep dating. And at least you'll have your self respect.

He may surprise you by being more open-minded than you think. Maybe he's considered polyamory before, himself. Possibly he might find the idea intriguing. But if he really is as mono-minded as you suspect, doesn't he deserve the chance to find a woman who can give him what he wants, rather than being led on by one who can't? He's a human being with a heart, not an experiment as you ease your way into a real poly.

 

[IndieSolo]

I don't think there's anything wrong with "practicing" dating, as long as you're up front about it. When I first started chatting with Dreamy, a guy I met online, we both were recently separated and rusty at dating, so we agreed to "practice" with each other. That relieved the pressure we were feeling and made it enjoyable. We could allow for some bungling and missteps, and laugh about them, that way.

And there is nothing wrong with dating without a goal of advancing to something more serious, and doing it to just have fun, to get used to meeting people, to learn how to flirt, etc... practicing. In fact, I always recommend that anyone dating do it that way, and take the pressure off!

However, it isn't right to be as dishonest about it as you have been. To be married but not reveal it is unfair. I am separated and reveal that right away, even though it's very final to me, and I know without a doubt that reconciliation with my ex is not possible, because some people will not date someone who isn't yet divorced. If I were just practicing dating, I'm not about to pretend with someone that that's not what I'm about.

You are being selfish, basically, by withholding important information from Darcy that would enable him to make an informed decision. He chose to ask you out, and you chose to lie (by omission). Is that really how you want to embark on a relationship? Even if it's just a date or two, starting off like that with someone sets a negative tone of dishonesty and manipulation. Where do you think it could go from there? You want to keep dating him, and you "feel awful," but yet you're still considering letting it continue. Not only is that unethical, and just plain not nice to do to him, it will also make things even worse for you among this group of people of which he is a part. You will have to find a whole new set of friends because no one will trust you. Can you see that it will eventually, undoubtedly, all go kablooey in your face?

Tell him you are married the very next time you see him. Call him up and let him know you need to talk to him. I see no reason to wait. Tell him you have an open relationship with your husband and "permission" to date. Apologize profusely and sincerely for not telling him sooner. Explain that this is new to you, and ask him to forgive you. See if he will understand, but be ready for him to dump you.

You may be surprised, though. I find that lots of guys who have heretofore been solely monoamorous are totally fine with not being exclusive. (I never use the word polyamorous with civilians. It's too confusing for many.)

Next time, show other people the kind of respect you want to be shown, and approach dating with honesty and integrity.

 

[redpepper]

Tell Darcy flat out, and be prepared to say sorry and walk away. At least you will have your dignity and your integrity, in time.

I dated a woman once that I didn't tell I was married. We hit it off really well and I tried to kiss her at the end of the night. She said "no thanks." We agreed to see each other again, but it didn't happen. I have seen her several times since, while with my other partners, my husband, and even my child, that I had not confessed to having. It must have been confusing for her, I imagine. I was pretty obviously not alone. She never spoke to me again. I feel so ashamed.

Now she is running in a local election and her name is plastered all over the city! Yeah, I think about this all too often. I wish I had just said something when I had a chance. The longer it has been left, the more ashamed I am, and the more distance occurs from saying something. I roll my eyes at the situation now. It has become almost humorous. Tragically so, but funny.

When in doubt, be honest. That is my motto now. I've lived and learned.

This would be a good note to self: tell those you date upfront.

 

[hyperskeptic]

The three foregoing responses are all pretty much right on the money: honesty is required, in part to prevent harm, in part out of respect for the right of other people to make decisions for themselves.

I did want to say something about this, though:

I feel like the few poly men I do find on websites, etc., are very... creepy? Or far older than me?

I'm not offended by this, really. It's just a puzzle to me, as a forty-something married man just trying out polyamory for the first time: how do I avoid coming across as creepy?

I wonder if, in our culture, "older (married) guy looking to date" simply equals "creepy guy." It's the stereotype of the wannabe swinger, in the depths of a midlife crisis, pathetically desperate to catch one last taste of youth before the long decline...

In fighting this stereotype, all I have to fall back on are my nerdy charm and rusty dating skills.

 

[opalescent]

Hyper,

I, for one, find nerdy charm, well... charming.

 

[Missgt]

First, I had a conversation with Kai, because the more I thought about it, the more I realized there was a conversation I needed to have with him, as well. And the conclusion that I first came to with Kai was that I worry that we (me in particular) are exploring poly, but what if I am really monogamous and not in the right relationship? This is a fear of mine and he understands that. I don't know if there is really a way to know this yet, but I am going to give poly a true effort. I am not looking to replace one relationship with another.

I love Kai, but we married very young, and it has always been a very pragmatic relationship. I am a creature driven by emotion, and he is, more than anything... not. I think that while we are a good pair for the purpose of raising a family, of being 'productive,' we are really more like best friends who have great sex, but not the romantic connection, really.

That being said, I had a conversation with the wonderful man I have had a few dates with. Well, I am a very emotional creature, so for clarity, I wrote him a letter. I actually wrote it three times to get it right, and hand delivered it. I talked to him for a few minutes first. (I think he was scared I was breaking things off.) I tried to be as honest as I could with him.

The letter introduced him to the fact that I am married, and went into our situation a little more, how long, number of children, etc. It expressed that I am still unsure exactly what the situation will be with me, that while I know I love my husband, our relationship is very different, even though I care I for him.

I told him that Kai was aware from the first date I went on with Darcy, that I was ashamed that I was too cowardly to tell Darcy up front. What I really tried to convey was that I am still very confused, that this is totally new ground for me, that I don't know if what I am truly seeking is to add to my existing relationship with additional loves, or if my existing relationship has perhaps run its course. I told Darcy that I know he is looking for something more long term, and I don't know yet what the future looks like for me and relationship(s), and that was why I was really only looking for casual dating. But he was very special to me, which is why I had to tell him everything, if there was any hope for him to at least forgive me.

The result was baffling. He said it was a lot to process, then stroked my hair and told me he would like to continue to get to know me and we can figure it out. I worry that perhaps he is hoping that I will realize that I really need monogamy. But I also worry that Kai is hoping that poly is the real 'solution,' for lack of better word.

Even if I come to decide that poly is truly right for me, and Darcy signs on board, I think that he would still be the 'mono' of the relationship. But as long as he is willing to let me be me, with whatever the final outcome is... Hopefully he was not just saying this and is going to come to his senses tomorrow. I did tell him that if that changes, his desire to continue to get to know me, to please say something, even it is a call, text, or e-mail.

I want to be clear that I do love Kai, but like I said, our relationship is different. We got married very early when I was pregnant. Had we not been married, I think that perhaps a very long time ago we would have not worked through some of our issues. The difference between us and other couples who get married when pregnant is that we do have a genuine love and respect for each other, and are very compatible in many ways.

Kai said the thing he thinks has left me longing for more is that emotionally I settled, which I would have a hard time saying is a false statement. But that doesn't mean I don't love him and respect him and want to see us both happy. The only question I continue to pursue now (as I told Darcy) is what the answer to that is.

I wish that there were manuals for this that came with answers to every situation. We will see how this continues.

 

[Missgt]

I do not find men older than me creepy. I just said that they were EITHER creepy OR far older than me. I do not consider 40s far older. The 58-year old who recently contacted me was a little off-putting. And by creepy, I will tell you, it is something about the look of the man (presentation-wise in his picture), or the responses he sends, not age, hair color, or any other arbitrary factor. I think most of the men I have found on those sites are looking for something not so much about relationship building. Does this help clarify?

And to be honest, nerdy is totally hot. Both Kai and Darcy are engineers in IT, somewhat awkward, but very likable, and yes, sexy men. One is just more in tune with his emotions, more into cooking, music, and art, while the other is more into beer brewing, fantasy football, and reading.

It's just a puzzle to me, as a forty-something married man just trying out polyamory for the first time: how do I avoid coming across as creepy?

I wonder if, in our culture, "older (married) guy looking to date" simply equals "creepy guy". It's the stereotype of the wannabe swinger, in the depths of a midlife crisis, pathetically desperate to catch one last taste of youth before the long decline.

In fighting this stereotype, all I have to fall back on are my nerdy charm and rusty dating skills.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Wow!!

Major major kudos for your handling of things. Strike a blow for honesty. You did the hard thing and it totally worked. So cool!! I bet that he admires your bravery. He must know it can't have been easy.

As for the "Am I poly?" question, I believe that you can have a solid relationship based on compatibility, companionship, and a strong partnership, where the issues have been worked out together via the hard work of years. I mean, that's nothing to sneeze at! If you can make a go at having that *and* the thrill of new love and emotion and romance, with everything done with integrity and on the up and up... well heck, why not see how lucky the universe will let you be?

There's no way to tell what will happen. There is, indeed, no manual. But poly/mono relationships certainly *can* work. Truly, assuming a continuation of open-mindedness, honesty, and hard work on everyone's part, anything the three of you can work out together is possible.

 

[hyperskeptic]

I worry that perhaps Darcy is hoping that I will realize that I really need monogamy, but I also worry that Kai is hoping that poly is the real 'solution,' for lack of better word.

Why worry? Why not ask?

It's hard enough, it seems, for you to sort out your own intentions, and desires, and limits without having to guess or assume or worry about the intentions, and desires, and limits of others. Nor should you make yourself responsible for the intentions, desires and limits of others.

So, you could, as you go along, make sure Darcy understands what your limits are, even (or perhaps especially) if your limits are set by your own confusion at the "pickle" in which you've landed. Surely, there are some things you wouldn't be comfortable with, some places you will not go.

On my OK Cupid profile, I make it very clear, up front, that I am committed to my wife and our children, and that this commitment is not negotiable. That's one of my limits, and others will just have to deal with it.

Likewise, maybe you should do what you can to make sure Darcy knows you are not going to end up in a monogamous relationship with him. If he was pinning his hopes on that, he may just lose interest, and that would be his loss.

On the other hand, if he understands that, and still wants to get to know you, and is still open to whatever your relationship becomes (short of exclusive monogamy), then you have something to build on... or so it seems to me, with my limited (not-quite-null) experience of actual poly relationships.