What's reasonable for me to expect?

[WhatHappened]

She's said she will tell him at some point.

So much for honesty. I'd be pretty pissed if I were putting time and energy into a relationship, only to find out...sometime after I'd put in that energy...that this person had a significant other he hadn't bothered mentioning. I'd feel very much that I was misled, and in fact lied to by omission.

I guess you're slowly coming to believe that just not mentioning you doesn't actually send you a message about where you stand in her life (I personally can't imagine just 'not mentioning' a significant other), but I think it says something about her that she doesn't feel this other guy deserves the whole truth of the situation up front, either.

 

[InfinitePossibility]

Your worries may be from insecurity and it's true that it is a bad idea to try and control your girlfriend's actions.

But - this

She's said she will tell him at some point.

would concern me greatly.

Sounds to me like she doesn't want to be honest about her situation in case it makes this guy less interested in her. It's understandable - lots of people would not be interested in a relationship with her if they knew about you.

However, concealing the truth about a significant part of her life for her own gain isn't a nice way to treat anybody. Particularly the new guy who is being gradually encouraged into a situation that isn't as he understands it. He should be allowed to choose freely and at the moment he isn't being.

I would have trouble being in a romantic relationship with somebody who is happy to start off new relationships with a lie. In your shoes I'd probably start shifting things toward friendship and be looking to end the romantic side of the relationship.

 

[vanquish]

Interesting. Gala and NYC see things totally differently than Infinite and What.

We have a great relationship. We pretty much spend 100% of our time together. Because I can survive on rent money I collect and a few cases I get as a lawyer, we've spent a month just basically hanging out at the house all day, taking the dogs for walks, going thrift shopping, and going out to eat or see movies. Add to that the snow days lately that have kept us totally indoors. We cook and workout and plan things. And we cuddle and kiss and sing little pet songs to each other.

She also fields texts from her friends and I'd say at least 4 or 5 romantic guys she talks to. Two of which she has slept with in the past, but isnt necessarily breaking her neck to see again. She plays games on her phone, browses Tumblr, and frequents three or four dating sites. I really think its a need for constant stimulation and affirmation from new people.

Once the weather gets nice again, im sure shell go on a coffee date or two. She went on one last week with a really weird bloke and they talked for three hours. Neither of them initiated any romantic stuff, but I think the guy was just nervous. When I picked her up from the coffee shop, we talked about his bad fashion, stringy hair, but interesting travels. They may see each other again. Who knows.

She kisses me and tells me she loves me. At night before bed we cuddle and dream together about things to do together. About how shared projects to advance her career and mine.

I know shes texting other guys and saying sexy stuff to them. Even romantic stuff like "I wanna cuddle with you. I wish you were here." But im the one who gets her actual time and affection. Im the one shes making long-term plans with. Im the one she says she has phenomenal sex with. I say all this to give you the flavor of our days and interaction.

Lately when I know shes sending someone texts a lot or pictures, ill just go into a trance and deal with it. This is what being poly is about, right? Give her her space to do her thing with someone else (or several someone elses)?

Steering back to the main topic, I know there has to be some sweet spot between giving her freedom to persue someone new and not scare them off by introducing me....and telling the new person she has a significant other. There's gotta be.

I hear you when you put yourself in the shoes of the other guy and say you wouldnt want to have that sprung on you after pursuing someone for awhile. But id bet dollars to donuts that this guy probably wouldnt care. Either hes got an ego about stealing her away with his innate awesomeness...or he wants to make his threesome relationship happen so bad he'll see what he can engineer...or he'll just try to have sex with her and an SO wont spoil his horniness. He's invested in getting her and theyve been flirty texting for weeks. I doubt he'll give up just by her introducing me.

Also, she makes a big deal out reminding everyone shes not the relationship type. She reminded him of that, but also sent mixed signals when she told him that she might be convinced to have sex with his female, though she doesnt do threesomes. (Of course I think that once she has sex with both individually, it's not that hard to transition into a threesome.) But hey, I shoudnt and dont want to stop her from whatever she wants...as long as our relationship isnt neglected. Again, these peolle live over three hours away and the chances are small, but my logical brain still churns sometimes.

Ill just bide my time and see what she says closer to their meeting. If the meeting actually happens.

 

[WhatHappened]

But id bet dollars to donuts that this guy probably wouldnt care. Either hes got an ego about stealing her away with his innate awesomeness...or he wants to make his threesome relationship happen so bad he'll see what he can engineer...or he'll just try to have sex with her and an SO wont spoil his horniness. He's invested in getting her and theyve been flirty texting for weeks. I doubt he'll give up just by her introducing me.

Or maybe he's a guy who actually wants a relationship. Or maybe he's a guy who actually tells the truth about where he is in life to prospective girlfriends and expects the same in return.

Either way, shouldn't it be HIS call to make, with full knowledge?

 

[vanquish]

Oh absolutely. He should have full knowledge. I suppose I'm bending over backwards not to find a rationalization to cramp her style. I'm trying to be the bigger guy here.

But you make an excellent point. When I read your last post I almost thought, "Whoa. What if WH actually IS the guy?" It let me see it from the other guy's point of view.

I suppose someone else might say that's between her and the other guy to work out. If she hides it for whatever reason, it's not up to me to push her and control her so that she does tell him. And if hiding it hurts him down the road, that's not for me to be involved in. That's their concern.

Again, if I were in his shoes, I would want to know there's someone else significant. She's said she will tell him and if I push further I'll just seem like an ass, right? Asking "Hey, did you ever tell G about me?" could lead to the following responses:

1. We haven't really been talking. It's not really an issue.
2. It's not the right time yet.
3. I may just fuck him once. It's not really an issue yet.
4. I thought I would tell him once we met.
5. He already knows I'm poly. That's enough until I tell him.

While she understands the model of calling someone her primary, my girl doesn't want to use that nomenclature. (Her sister and sister's fiance use that already and are a healthy example of that model.) If I brought it up again, she'd simply say "We spend all of our time around each other. We make long-term plans with each other. Most of my clothes are over here. We have 4 pets together. Doesn't that pretty much make you primary?"

Functionally, I am primary. Which amounts to monopolization...which is what my 42 year old brain is used to. I've read on these forums that monopolization is a form of control and I have to agree. Well, it can be a form of control. Unless the people involved consent to that being what they want.

A lot of this stems from me not being good at being alone. I know that. But it also stems from wanting to be recognized for the work and the effort and the value of what we share right now. Surely that has to count for something.

If I were going to bring it up again, how do you think I should do it?

 

[Inyourendo]

So much for honesty. I'd be pretty pissed if I were putting time and energy into a relationship, only to find out...sometafter I'd put in that energy...that this person had a significant other he hadn't bothered mentioning. I'd feel very much that I was misled, and in fact lied to by omission.

I guess you're slowly coming to believe that just not mentioning you doesn't actually send you a message about where you stand in her life (I personally can't imagine just 'not mentioning' a significant other), but I think it says something about her that she doesn't feel this other guy deserves the whole truth of the situation up front, either.

I would too. I would seriously question being with someone who thinks its ok to be dishonest and string someone along for months likw that. Being with someone bwith integrity is very important to me.

 

[vanquish]

She's got integrity, people. She's told the guy that shes poly. At that point, he should be ready for anything under the sun. To some on this board, all relationships are separate and just saying that is enough.

My girl isnt dishonest. Its just shes figuring out the right time to tell him. Hell, for all I know she already has.

 

[Inyourendo]

see in my opinion not disclosing that you have the relationship regardless of the fact that she said she's poly or not is the sauna. And my husband said the same thing that he would be extremely upset if you met somebody and was seeing them and they pulled the wall right out from under him say oh yeah by the way blah blah blah

 

[Inyourendo]

see in my opinion not disclosing that you have the relationship regardless of the fact that she said she's poly or not is dishonest. Guess new guy's option on this is the only one matters at this point.

 

[vanquish]

If you've been told that someone is poly and seeing other people...that's not enough? Huh.

 

[WhatHappened]

"Seeing other people" and "have a serious relationship with whom I have long term plans" are two different things. Yes, I would feel lied to. One implies that she casually dates. The other, to my mind, would mean that she is unlikely to move in with me, marry me, have children with me, make me a priority. The other means that I will likely be a 'secondary.'

 

[Dagferi]

Why do you want to play house with someone who doesn't want to acknowledge your existence.

She is more than happy to have you feed, clothe her, pay for a roof over her head, and have you buy her pets though. But can't claim you as someone special to her.

 

[Inyourendo]

"Seeing other people" and "have a serious relationship with whom I have long term plans" are two different things. Yes, I would feel lied to. One implies that she casually dates. The other, to my mind, would mean that she is unlikely to move in with me, marry me, have children with me, make me a priority. The other means that I will likely be a 'secondary.'

I agree with this. When meeting potential mates their current relationship dynamic is something I consider. For instance I prefer people who live alone. I don't want to meet or be involved with their other partners so if they already had a live in partner I would probably not choose to be involved wi r h them as I have 4 kids and a husband at home 24/7 and have an inability to host.

 

[GalaGirl]

I think she could be more honest with all her partners. Right now she is not all that forthcoming about having you as a steady live in partner to her potentials but very forthcoming about not "liking relationships" to all.

Being up front about that part is good. But it does not excuse her lack honesty about you being in the picture when courting new potentials to me. Different subject.

When she presents as a poly-single rather than a poly-partnered, that is leaving info out to me. Less than full information.

If this were me? I would not be up for this style of relating. I would ask for consistent honesty and back off to see if my partner delivers. If not? I bow out.

But I am not you. You are the one who figures out how you want to be. If this works for you, then great. Everyone is different.

At this time you want to wait and see....so wait and see.

GG

 

[vanquish]

Everyone is giving a lot of great perspective. What youre all saying is helping me hone my own views about things.

As for her holding herself out as dating casually only, thats really all she wants anyway. The fact that we live together a lot is an anomoly. She will tell anyone she dates that shes not a relationship person. Yes, I know shes breaking that with me, but as regards someone wanting to know if they could marry her or some such as WhatHappened suggested, shell shut them down on that anyway.

She has the perspective that london espoused, I.e. each relationship is self-contained. Of course I started this thread wanting to know if I should get more acknowledgement and most of you said I should. Of course I like that answer.

Im so far in love and lust I cant help myself. I am being assertive, but I could be more so. I think she and I should talk about explaining her situation after 3 dates or so? On this other guy ill wait for now and see what she does.

 

[Dagferi]

Sweetheart you are being used...

She doesn't have sex with you more than 2-3 times a month. Yet she is persuing sex with others. And is happy to have you play Sugar daddy. Open your eyes.

Do not make someone a priority who makes you an option .

 

[GalaGirl]

The fact that we live together a lot is an anomoly. She will tell anyone she dates that shes not a relationship person.

She has told you the same thing. It is not anomaly.

• She wants to be "deep friends who shares sex" with you.

The roomie bit -- she has a home with her parents. If she chooses to come to visit and overextends her stay as a guest and you choose to not send her home? And you end up living with her without her asking you formally and without a contract? That is separate subject -- that is "roomie-roomie" relationship and "landlord/renter" relationship. I would not enter into that without a contract. But I am not you.

My point is that you could treat each tier of relationship to you separately. You are several things to her -- "bdsm daddy" "FWB" "roomie" and "landlord."

I have not read in any of your posts where you both agreed to acknowledge that your shared (love/sex relationship) was something other than (BDSM & FWB friend-love) share and sex share. I could be wrong and have missed it. Could you be willing to clarify this? I was left with the impression that you desire more than FWB and she does not.

But "Do you want more then FWB with me?" is also separate question from "Did we sort out all our shared agreements at this time?" I do not have the impression that you have all your agreements made.

Im so far in love and lust I cant help myself.

You CAN help your own behavior. You could not let your soft feelings for her be your excuse for you neglecting your own needs in your own behavior. You could sort out your agreements for all your tiers of relationship to her so you can be on the same page.

In this post you state are a primarily monogamous 43 yr old man. That you are currently in a FWB/roomie arrangement with a polysexual partner who doesn't want serious love relationships -- including you. The shared relationship also has some BDSM/Daddy-Babygirl dynamic to it.

• If this dynamic currently pleases you, could go with it as it is.
• If she does not please you as "babygirl," could apply discipline as "Daddy" according to your BDSM agreement and get her back into line.
• If you have neglected to form your BDSM agreements with her because you were too lusty/lovey/lala to do it, catch it up now and stop neglecting this work so you are not saddled with a PITA sub and she's not saddled with a PITA top.
• If the entire (Daddy-babygirl) scene no longer pleases you at all and is not healthy, end it.

• If the FWB dynamic currently pleases you, could go with it.
• If she's not playing by the FWB agreements, call her into account according to your shared FWB agreements.
• If you were too lusty/lovey/lala to make FWB agreements, catch it up now and stop neglecting this work so you aren't saddled with a PITA FWB and neither is she.
• If the entire FWB dynamic no longer pleases you at all and is not healthy, end it.

• If the roomie dynamic currently pleases you, go with it and continue to allow it in your home.
• If she's not playing by the roomie agreements, call her into account according to your shared roomie agreements.
• If you were too lusty/lovey/lala to make roomie agreements, catch it up now and stop neglecting this work so you aren't saddled with a PITA roomie and neither is she.
• If the entire roomie dynamic no longer pleases you at all and is not healthy, end it.

• If the renter/landlord dynamic currently pleases you, go with it and continue to allow it in your home.
• If she's not playing by the renter/landlord agreements, call her into account according to your shared renter/landlord agreements
• If you were too lusty/lovey/lala to make renter/landlord agreements, catch it up now and stop neglecting this work so you aren't saddled with a PITA tenant or she with a PITA landlord.
• If the entire renter/landlord dynamic no longer pleases you at all and is not healthy, end it.

Feeling "lusty-lovey" is not excuse to skimp out on your business of looking out for your own best healths and interests. She could attend to hers also. Could both complete your shared agreements so you both can exist together in healthy relationship.

I am being assertive, but I could be more so. I think she and I should talk about explaining her situation after 3 dates or so?

You need to "know and be known" as a lover in this network if she's planning on adding a new lover. You would like to know this is happening and who this is, and you want them to know you exist in here somewhere. This is basic sex health hygiene stuff. Fair enough. So could own it, and roll with it.

I happen to think "tell before sex share happens" is more specific than "before 3 dates" but you figure it out with her where the line will be drawn. Maybe something here helps you in your talk.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

But you both could actually talk and negotiate what the boundaries that both of you are willing to agree to will be. Not just about the safer sex stuff, but all your tiers of relationship to each other.

Could actually HAVE some articulated boundaries for each tier of relationship so both can know how to treat each other as respectful (FWB, roomies, etc), so both can know what to expect from each other's behavior, and so both can hold each other accountable to your shared agreements so you can be free of this unsettled back and forth stuff.

You do not seem to enjoy it.

Galagirl

 

[vanquish]

She tells me she loves me every day a thousand times and in a million ways. Cuddles and kisses and flirts and sweet little interactions. She also tells me that I am her absolute favorite and that I could never be replaced. She blogs on tumblr about our life together occasionally as well. Things like pictures of our date nights and making breakfast and such.

Clarification, I feel we are more than fwb but less than full commitment. She has severe clinical anxiety that she should be on medication for, but can't afford. Her parents cant afford it either. On numerous occasions I am the only thing that could calm her down. Not her medicine. Not her family, but me. So I know I have a special place in her heart. The issue is that relationships seem to binding to her. So we have a de facto relationship, but don't call it that.

Taking each issue head on...

Staying with me
She doesn't have a job other than her modeling which is slow in our area so I can't really expect any money. She contributes where she can. The house is really mine and I should be keeping it up. She cleans some and cooks a lot so she is contributing. She helps me grocery shop with an eye towards keeping costs down which she is good at. Honestly, I could tell her to go home at anytime, but she lives 30 mins away (1 hour round trip), so rather than be lonely, I prefer she stay with me at the house. I want her to be there, so I don't mind footing the bills. She goes back to stay with her parents once in awhile when staying at my house seems to confining so she's not milking anything.

FWB dynamic
I've always known that she's not the relationship type. I've always known that she will date for both love and sex in the future. We've talked about how there will be someone, at some point, that she will not just have sex with but will care about, and accepting that is part of accepting that she's poly. I knew what I was getting into. And really while she's more comfortable calling it "friends who fuck", there's a lot more commitment there than that, but we just can't call it more because it worries her.

Sex
Of course I'd like to have sex more than 2-3 times a month, but is that truly an indicator that I'm being used? Honestly, I'd like some perspective on that.

We cuddle naked and sleep naked and kiss a lot. She happens to have a medical condition that limits her available time for sexual activity.
I do think from time to time that the DD/lg dynamic kind of lessens the sexual edge of the relationship, at least the way we do it.

It's very, very loving....going both ways, but not primarily sexual. In the past, we've talked and she's told me that she wants to back away from the BDSM scene, but values our DD/lg relationship infinitely.

She had a different Daddy (long distance with a few trips to see each other per month) for over a year, but he found another girl. The dumping really hurt her and she doesn't feel like being collared again is for her. I get that. It's a deep commitment, especially the way they did it with sexual commands and 24/7 ownership. Our dynamic is more of a playful one with me as a service top and her relaxing into a deep, deep babygirl persona that she comes in and out of all the time. (She really only comes out when there are people who aren't hip to the lifestyle.)

As even more backstory, she had a father who abused her mother and her siblings terribly. She'd say that didn't affect her, but I'm sure it had to. Her sister's polyamory might have sprung out of that treatment as well, perhaps.

She tells me that it's easier to have sex with new people because she doesn't care about them. We're very open in our house, including her sister and sister's fiance who are both poly, about sexuality - and every time the subject of sex with me comes up she brightens up and gives me and us a glowing review. Sex with me is "phenomenal", "amazing" etc. etc. Hell she even says that I'm the only one who can give her massages because I've got magic hands.

I also think she likes the thrill of having someone new giving her attention (NRE). By her own admission she sees herself as "the good time girl, not the one guys want to keep around. They always get bored and move on." I think she's selling herself short because if she didn't just think things were about sex, and she treated things like a relationship, the men would value her more and she'd have a regular relationship.

But remember, she's 20. That's a time for exploration and sexual hijinks. Sure some people get tied down at 20, but most of us would probably say that's way too young. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not proposing marriage. I'm recently divorced. But 20 is part of your dating prime. I can understand wanting to date more than one person at a time at that age.

So where does that put us...?
How much sex is "normal"? 2-3 times a month? 2-3 times a week? And does "normal" be something she's forced to do?

I'm solid in letting things stay status quo for the time being, but I will be re-evaluating in the near future. I realize that I'm terrible at being alone and am giving more than I should to keep things going, but even the thought of being without her makes me sad.

Honestly, things are pretty good. We hang out 99% of the time. We kiss and cuddle and do fun things together. She tells me she loves me and flirts with me. She occasionally even slips and calls me her boyfriend to new people, though that's primarily for efficiency I guess.

I'm rambling at this point. Getting back to the main topic I don't want to cockblock her by forcing her to acknowledge me right off the bat, but I, personally, want to be acknowledged at some point so that the new person doesnt begin to make plans that don't include me when they should.

 

[london]

What about her obligation to make sure her partner is not excluded? If that was any sort of priority for her, she'd make sure you never were. That's why you need to see how she manages her relationships on her own. That's how you'll see what is important to her and who is dispensable.

 

[vanquish]

How do I do that?