When your partner’s needs aren’t being met...

[MsEmotional]

Ponytail wants a kid. I told him recently that I didn’t think it was likely that we’d ever be able to have a kid together: I am feeling ready to be done having kids and Glasses is (as of right now) very uncomfortable with the idea of me bringing another child into our family. Plus Glasses’ parents are super unsupportive of the whole thing (at least right now) and would likely be very upset if they had a step-grandchild in this way, so the idea just seems off the table.

Ponytail said that he understands that — that it isn’t an expectation that he’s had from me....that when I said I was interested he thought it would be great if it worked out, but that he still wanted to be with me forever, even if we never had kids together.

Ok, so that should be fine. We’re poly, he’s free to find another partner to have kids with. However, he isn’t feeling good about dating right now. Most of the poly women he encounters aren’t really his type — and they’re also not looking to start families.

So as long as he’s with me (and therefore can only date women who are already ok with the idea of polyamory) he isn’t getting his long-term goals (for a family win kids of his own) met.

Even though he says he wants to be with me even if it means never having kids, I am feeling so much guilt. Having kids is one of the best decisions I’ve ever made — it’s hard to imagine someone wanting that and not being able to obtain it because of a relationship with me. A big part of me feels compelled to break up with him so that he can find someone who will have kids with him.....and then I remember that breaking up with him doesn’t guarantee that he’d find a good partner for having kids....and it doesn’t guarantee that having kids with someone else would bring him more happiness than staying with me and never having kids.....but I feel like I am holding him back....

Has anyone else ever experienced this? Where your being in a relationship with someone necessarily means that they aren’t able to get their needs met with someone else? Are there other options he can consider? When I search on OKC for people who might want kids AND are non-monogamous, we only get like 4 people who match those criteria. :-(

 

[cwpoly]

Kudos to Ponytail for being accepting of your boundaries in deciding not to have a another child. And to you as well for communicating clearly about what works for you.

As far as your feelings of guilt for not providing that for him, it's important to remember that since Ponytail identifies as polyamorous, then having partners that are open and accepting of him being able to form other relationships is also one of his needs.

Surrendering his poly relationship style to become a monogamous father would leave that needs unfulfilled.

Just a thought -- what does his concept of having a kid mean? i.e. Does it have to be his own genetic offspring? Widening his net to include poly families that are open to co-parenting might fulfill his desire to be a father.

 

[Ravenscroft]

MsEmotional, many of your posts have dealt with the ever-expanding ways in which Ponytail has been pressing to be "more equal" with Glasses. In order to somehow give himself the worth that he doesn't actually feel, your boyfriend is driven to wedge himself into your marriage, crowding your husband aside, if not (yet...) out.

This metatopic seriously NEEDS to be confronted -- directly & frequently -- by the three of you.

In the current situation, you again look at a situation rationally, then purposely shoot yourself down with a big YES BUT.

We’re poly, he’s free to find another partner to have kids with. However, he isn’t feeling good about dating right now. Most of the poly women he encounters aren’t really his type — and they’re also not looking to start families.

The only correct reponse is, as a friend puts it,

Well, weh FUCKING weh.

He's been dating for, what, four months now? and he hasn't yet found someone who wants to get knocked up?? Oh, the poor dear!!! How can he possibly go on!!! What form of suicide has he brought up most recently??

I mean, .

He's either able to act like an adult, OR you are his caretaker, & enabling him in his weakness, working to make him weaker & ever-more dependent upon you & your largesse.

Even the title of your post is questionable: Ponytail DOES NOT have a "need" to spawn, & I can make a case that he has yet to truly earn "partner" status.

The cheap melodrama is incredible. He's acting much more like a spoiled 30-something son storming back into your house & expecting Mommy to give him food & clean up his messes & Daddy to foot the bill AND provide a generous allowance, with neither of them even mentioning that maybe he ought to grow the hell up already.

If I were actually interested, I'd comb through your posts & put the relevant ultimatums out on a timeline. Perhaps that's a project for another reader.

 

[MsEmotional]

MsEmotional, many of your posts have dealt with the ever-expanding ways in which Ponytail has been pressing to be "more equal" with Glasses. In order to somehow give himself the worth that he doesn't actually feel, your boyfriend is driven to wedge himself into your marriage, crowding your husband aside, if not (yet...) out.

This metatopic seriously NEEDS to be confronted -- directly & frequently -- by the three of you.

In the current situation, you again look at a situation rationally, then purposely shoot yourself down with a big YES BUT.

The only correct reponse is, as a friend puts it,



He's been dating for, what, four months now? and he hasn't yet found someone who wants to get knocked up?? Oh, the poor dear!!! How can he possibly go on!!! What form of suicide has he brought up most recently??

I mean, .

He's either able to act like an adult, OR you are his caretaker, & enabling him in his weakness, working to make him weaker & ever-more dependent upon you & your largesse.

Even the title of your post is questionable: Ponytail DOES NOT have a "need" to spawn, & I can make a case that he has yet to truly earn "partner" status.

The cheap melodrama is incredible. He's acting much more like a spoiled 30-something son storming back into your house & expecting Mommy to give him food & clean up his messes & Daddy to foot the bill AND provide a generous allowance, with neither of them even mentioning that maybe he ought to grow the hell up already.

If I were actually interested, I'd comb through your posts & put the relevant ultimatums out on a timeline. Perhaps that's a project for another reader.

You’re reading more into my post than what I said, and attributing MY concerns to Ponytail. The only things that I said that Ponytail had said on this front is that he wants to be with me regardless of whether we have kids and that having kids with me ISN’T an expectation that he has for our relationship. I was the one (a few months ago after a pregnancy scare) that said I had a fantasy about having a kid with him someday, so I was the one who brought it up as a possibility for us.

And since when is having the choice to start a family not a legitimate need? This is one of the most basic biological imperatives we have as a species.

Finally, what gives you the right to determine who earns the status of “partner” for ME? The term is already used so broadly I don’t even know how you can claim to know how I am using it in this context.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi MsEmotional,

For me, the thing to keep in mind is that Ponytail is old enough to be responsible for his own decisions, as well as their consequences. He knows it will be difficult (or impossible) to find another partner to have kids with as long as you are in the picture, yet, he chooses to keep you in the picture anyway. That is his choice; he has the right to make that choice.

The only exception would be if you found the guilt you're feeling to be so intense as to be debilitating. You, too, have the right to make your own decisions, including the choice to retain Ponytail as a partner. If you want, you can break up with him for any reasons of your own choosing. But if you want to stay with him, if the guilt isn't too strong, and if he wants to stay with you, it makes sense to me for you guys to stick together. Hopefully he'll also find someone to have kids with, but even if he doesn't, he is okay with that.

I do not, and will not, have any kids, so I don't have your perspective from which to see things. I don't know that it's worth it to have kids, I'm particularly terrified of infancy, but maybe if I had kids I would think it was worth it. I don't know. I know it's a big commitment. Things I would rather do would be pushed aside for the sake of the child.

Maybe for Ponytail, ignorance is bliss to a certain extent? If he never does have kids, he won't know what he's missing out on? It almost sounds like you feel worse about it than he does. Because you've had kids. You know it's worth it; you know how worth it it is. Ponytail does not know that. There's no way he can know that without actually having kids. And for him, in this situation, maybe that is a good thing. I could be wrong of course, I am just thinking out loud.

Try not to worry about it more than Ponytail does. That's all I'm saying.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[MsEmotional]

Hi MsEmotional,

For me, the thing to keep in mind is that Ponytail is old enough to be responsible for his own decisions, as well as their consequences. He knows it will be difficult (or impossible) to find another partner to have kids with as long as you are in the picture, yet, he chooses to keep you in the picture anyway. That is his choice; he has the right to make that choice.

The only exception would be if you found the guilt you're feeling to be so intense as to be debilitating. You, too, have the right to make your own decisions, including the choice to retain Ponytail as a partner. If you want, you can break up with him for any reasons of your own choosing. But if you want to stay with him, if the guilt isn't too strong, and if he wants to stay with you, it makes sense to me for you guys to stick together. Hopefully he'll also find someone to have kids with, but even if he doesn't, he is okay with that.

I do not, and will not, have any kids, so I don't have your perspective from which to see things. I don't know that it's worth it to have kids, I'm particularly terrified of infancy, but maybe if I had kids I would think it was worth it. I don't know. I know it's a big commitment. Things I would rather do would be pushed aside for the sake of the child.

Maybe for Ponytail, ignorance is bliss to a certain extent? If he never does have kids, he won't know what he's missing out on? It almost sounds like you feel worse about it than he does. Because you've had kids. You know it's worth it; you know how worth it it is. Ponytail does not know that. There's no way he can know that without actually having kids. And for him, in this situation, maybe that is a good thing. I could be wrong of course, I am just thinking out loud.

Try not to worry about it more than Ponytail does. That's all I'm saying.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

Thanks, Kevin. This really helps me keep things in perspective — especially the part about him not REALLY knowing if having kids of his own would be the best decision for him.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

Ms. Emotional, did you ever check out any books regarding co-dependency? (mentioned on a previous thread of yours).

Although I don't necessarily believe his phrasing was helpful, I do believe Ravenscroft is right. Ponytail's emotional well-being is not YOUR job to manage.

 

[MsEmotional]

Ms. Emotional, did you ever check out any books regarding co-dependency? (mentioned on a previous thread of yours).

Although I don't necessarily believe his phrasing was helpful, I do believe Ravenscroft is right. Ponytail's emotional well-being is not YOUR job to manage.

I did, but I got kind of overwhelmed by all the options and wasn’t sure which one to order, so they are in my queue to read reviews of later. Do you have a particular book of hers that you’d recommend? Some reviews said that the information was out-dated and not clinically sound, which is why I wasn’t sure which book would be best.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

I would definitely look at more up to date books. I had read her during the 90's. It was helpful, but I'm sure there are more current philosophies that may be useful to you.

 

[MsEmotional]

I would definitely look at more up to date books. I had read her during the 90's. It was helpful, but I'm sure there are more current philosophies that may be useful to you.

Thanks! I did some more searching and ordered one that had good reviews and was published last year.

 

[sexyserb]

My question is Mr. Ponytail prepared and able to support this kid he wants and are you for 18 years should your relationship not last???

hats the first question that should be asked and answered decidedly before anyone starts talking about bringing another life into this world.

 

[Ravenscroft]

Although I don't necessarily believe his phrasing was helpful

An expression of long-building frustration. Being "nice," carefully laying out the situation, having an adult discussion, has almost always resulted in more "yes but," & YET ANOTHER expression of codependent rationalization burned my last scrap of patience.

Either the codependence is addressed, & repairs properly begun, or the only reason to post on this site is to provide cheap melodrama for the amusement of others. IMNSHO, such attention-getting behavior would be properly confined to a Life Stories blog.

 

[MsEmotional]

An expression of long-building frustration. Being "nice," carefully laying out the situation, having an adult discussion, has almost always resulted in more "yes but," & YET ANOTHER expression of codependent rationalization burned my last scrap of patience.

Either the codependence is addressed, & repairs properly begun, or the only reason to post on this site is to provide cheap melodrama for the amusement of others. IMNSHO, such attention-getting behavior would be properly confined to a Life Stories blog.

I am sorry you are frustrated. I did not see my question as being attention-seeking. On the contrary, my interpretation of your posts has been that you are seeking attention and trolling — why else would you continuously twist my words to fit whatever preconceived biases you have about my relationship? You don’t draw accurate conclusions from my posts and continuously misinterpret what I write, which makes me think that you just aren’t a very good judge of my situation or are letting your own experiences provide an inaccurate lens through which you view my descriptions. Others who have expressed concerns about unhealthy relationship patterns have at least seemed to have understood my posts accurately and not made inaccurate assumptions about what has been said or done.

I had intended to post this question here because I thought that concerns around family planning and goal-setting would be ones that were common in poly situations. However if my questions are inappropriate for this forum and come off as trolling for attention, then I will see what other resources might be better sources of guidance.

 

[kdt26417]

MsEmotional, I don't see a problem with anything you've posted on this thread.

 

[dragonette]

MsEmotional,

I agree with those who say that its up to Ponytail to figure out how to get his needs met. I would just add that it might be worth having a conversation in which you describe the situation as you see it, including that it would be easier for him to find a partner to have kids with if he stopped seeing you and dated as mono. See if he agrees with that assessment. If he does, you could say something like "it's up to you to decide what you need, but I want you to know that if you ever were to decide that you wanted to stop seeing me in order to pursue a monogamous relationship, I would be sad, but I would understand completely."

I was in a situation for a while where it was becoming clear that my poly relationship wasn't going to meet all my needs, and I was considering whether I should end the relationship to pursue a monogamous one (because I also felt that limiting myself to poly people might not make sense, as I don't consider poly a "need" for me). But my then BF got really upset (crying) at the possibility of my moving away for a job, telling me how important our relationship was to him and how he was afraid I wasn't as committed to it as he was. That made it harder for me to end it without feeling a lot of guilt. (I guess I'm lucky that less than a year later, he changed his mind about how "committed" he was.)

So I guess what I'm saying is, there's something in between breaking up with him for his own good, and ignoring the issue. You can help him think through his needs and make clear that you support whatever he decides to do, even if it's breaking up with you.

 

[MsEmotional]

MsEmotional,

I agree with those who say that its up to Ponytail to figure out how to get his needs met. I would just add that it might be worth having a conversation in which you describe the situation as you see it, including that it would be easier for him to find a partner to have kids with if he stopped seeing you and dated as mono. See if he agrees with that assessment. If he does, you could say something like "it's up to you to decide what you need, but I want you to know that if you ever were to decide that you wanted to stop seeing me in order to pursue a monogamous relationship, I would be sad, but I would understand completely."

I was in a situation for a while where it was becoming clear that my poly relationship wasn't going to meet all my needs, and I was considering whether I should end the relationship to pursue a monogamous one (because I also felt that limiting myself to poly people might not make sense, as I don't consider poly a "need" for me). But my then BF got really upset (crying) at the possibility of my moving away for a job, telling me how important our relationship was to him and how he was afraid I wasn't as committed to it as he was. That made it harder for me to end it without feeling a lot of guilt. (I guess I'm lucky that less than a year later, he changed his mind about how "committed" he was.)

So I guess what I'm saying is, there's something in between breaking up with him for his own good, and ignoring the issue. You can help him think through his needs and make clear that you support whatever he decides to do, even if it's breaking up with you.

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate the insight that your experience provides.