Not really new, but need some reassurance

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gypsygirl

New member
Hi! For ease of reading, there's me, my boyfriend, Sanguinist, his girlfriend, Sleepsong, and her son, ZZ, who is two.

Many years ago, in college, Sanguinist and Sleepsong dated, as part of a poly arrangement. They broke up, and eventually both got married. Her job and her husband's took her to a different part of the country. Sang's marriage ended badly. Sleepsong got back in touch with him, and they started a long-distance relationship, much to her husband's displeasure.

Here's where I came in. I met him, and fell incredibly hard. I met her virtually, and tried to help her husband (via email) come to terms with polyamory.

We failed to convert her husband (which I'm hardly surprised at, since he entered it as a mono relationship, and had little choice in the opening of it). Sleepsong and Z moved in with another man (and his wife and son), who she's seeing in this area.

This arrangement has proven hard, as the other people in the house expect her to do all the cooking, and to help with their child, but are unwilling (and sometimes unable) to help her with anything. It's not like she doesn't have a full-time job, either.

I only know about this stuff from what Sanguinist has told me. Sleepsong does not communicate with me, although I feel I have done everything I can to leave the door open and invite her to do so. I've suggested to him several times that he should have her over when I am there. But almost every time I've done so, she declines, for what seem increasingly thin reasons.

Which brings about the situation that's bothering me. She has suggested that she should move in with Sanguinist. She's been dropping hints for months. The problem there is that I do not live alone, and his house is a very small one. I am afraid that her moving in with him will eliminate any alone time he and I might have. I can hardly ask her to take a small child somewhere overnight so that I can sleep over.

Can someone tell me that this will work out, that some similar arrangement worked out for you? I know it's likely an irrational fear, but I'm afraid she's trying to get rid of me. (And sadly, I have a basis for this fear in another relationship that all but ended when someone else moved in with him.)

I guess I just need someone to tell me that the evil voice in the back of my head is wrong, that nobody's as devious as I keep thinking she is.

Thanks in advance.
 
Sorry, but I think you may well be on to something.

There are a number of reasons that this seems like a bad idea to me. Let's focus on #1. Sleepsong seems to be a drama magnet. She foisted poly on her husband with little to no negotiation with him on the matter (at least that's how it sounds). She has drama with the new roommates (of course it sounds like it's all their fault from the way she tells it, but there are *always* two sides to these stories). She's dodging you with sketchy excuses, rather then just saying that she's not comfortable hanging out. And now she's dropping hints to Sanguinist about what she wants for their relationship, rather then asking directly.

You and he both need to be very cautious. Whether she's trying to break you up or not, she's trouble.
 
I really wish you hadn't said that, because this is exactly how I feel about her. I'm trying not to, for his sake, but yeah.

As for Sleepsong's marriage, what I hear is that her husband knew from the beginning that she had been poly, and this made him feel less than secure about being able to satisfy her, both emotionally and sexually. She agreed to be mono, but apparently edited her marriage vows to not include anything about being exclusive.

Then, after the kid was born, she suddenly needed other people in her life, and without negotiation, found some people online and started "dating" them. It was about this time that he found out she was a serious sub, and wanted/needed a dom. He had no inkling of this before, and was not, as far as I could tell, at all dominant. He tried, but apparently, she ended up topping from the bottom, which only made him feel more self-conscious.

She's the one that made the ultimate decision that the marriage was over, after she'd moved away. (She had a job here, he didn't, and he was going to finish packing their stuff.)

From what I've seen of her relationship with Sanguinist, she demands attention a lot. He even asked me at one point if I could "be the sane one" for a while, because he couldn't handle any more drama than what he was getting from her. Not that needing attention is bad, but he's always exhausted after he talks to her, even when she's had a good day.

I should mention that he's aware of my concerns, and tells me he does not intend to have her move in unless there's a plan for these things to work out. I trust him to stick to that; I'm just really nervous that something will come up to destroy that plan.

As for avoiding me, he says that she's had bad experiences with trying to have female friends, in general, and with trying to be friends with people she's sharing lovers with, in particular. I respect that she has fears, but we've met several times. If she doesn't like me, can't she just say so?

All of this becomes more troubling for me when I remember that Sanguinist's ultimate plan is to have a big poly house where we all live as one big family. How can we do that if we can't all communicate now?
 
There are other threads here on "moving in" together that might be useful. Try doing a search under that title to see what you find.

This situation seems like an incredibly bad idea. Red flags are all over it. I think Sleepsong should be out on her own, or in a living situation with people she is not dating. She seems to be a user, to me. Talk about not standing up for yourself!

I would be concerned about this situation in terms of Sanguinist. I think if this were me I would be very firm about the changes to my involvement in his life. It sounds like he is not about to take her in, but I would be concerned also.

As to getting to know her? She seems to not be interested, so I would just let it alone. She knows you are available to talk, and that should be enough. It sound suspicious to me, however.
 
Just remember, everything you hear about her through him could be a lie. Sleepsong could be making up a lot of stuff just to get her way with him. He's relaying her situation to you, BUT how would either of you possibly know what's actually going on? BIG RED FLAG, I'd say.

I would tell Sanguinist in no uncertain terms that if she moves in with him, you know it would severely hamper your time with him. It might put an end to something really good you have together, and place a huge burden of responsibility on HIM to be in the role of caretaker-father-provider. I would also ask him if all the drama and headaches she gives him are worth jeopardizing your relationship.

You have very nicely and generously offered to be helpful and understanding enough; I think now it's time to be a little hard-ass and stand firm on what you will and will not accept. If you're not sure what you are willing to accept, figure it out, and don't feel obligated to be nice. Ask yourself what you need, and then ask him for that. From there, you can negotiate, but don't concede anything until you've stated what your ideal is.
 
gypsygirl said:
There's me, there's my boyfriend, Sanguinist, his girlfriend, Sleepsong, and her son ZZ, who is two.

Many years ago, in college, Sanguinist and Sleepsong dated, as part of a poly arrangement. They broke up, and eventually both got married. Her job and her husband's took her to a different part of the country. His marriage ended badly, and she got back in touch with him, and they started a long distance relationship (much to her husband's displeasure).
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So, Sleep started cybersexing with Sanguin, without her husband's blessing. This is cheating.

Here's where I come in. I met him, fell incredibly hard.
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Did Sanguin also fall for you hard? How committed is he to his relationship with you?


I met her virtually, and tried to help her husband (via email) come to terms with polyamory.

We failed to convert her husband (which I'm hardly surprised at, since he entered it as a mono relationship, and had little choice in the opening of it), and she (and Z) moved in with another man (and his wife and son) she's seeing in this area.
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She and her husband broke up because she was cheating. So, then she got involved with a poly man and moved cross-country, back to where Sanguin lives, to live with her new bf, and be near Sanguin, your bf. While barely knowing her new bf?

This arrangement has proved hard, as the other people in the house expect her to do all the cooking, and to help with their child, but are unwilling (and sometimes unable) to help her with anything. It's not like she doesn't have a full time job, either.
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I wonder about this. Why can't she properly negotiate shared household responsibilities? Also, it's always a bad idea to move in with a new partner when you've barely met irl. Heck, even if you have a local partner, it's a good idea to wait a year to move in together, until NRE has passed and you see the real person behind the "ideal" we all present at the beginning.

Which brings about the situation that's bothering me. She has suggested that she should move in with Sanguinist. She's been dropping hints for months. The problem there is that I do not live alone, and his house is a very small one. I am afraid that her moving in with him will eliminate any alone time he and I might have. I can hardly ask her to take a small child somewhere overnight so that I can sleep over.
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So now she is looking for another man she can charm into letting her squat with him. Sheesh.

Can someone tell me that this will work out, that some similar arrangement worked out for you? I know it's likely an irrational fear, but I'm afraid she's trying to get rid of me. (And sadly, I have a basis for this fear in another relationship that all but ended when someone else moved in with him.)
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I'd say you're right to be afraid. She sounds like a drama vortex. She fucked up her marriage because she was cheating; she seems to be an unwelcome guest in her new bf's house, where she can't negotiate basic things like housework; and now she wants to move into a tiny house with Sanguin, along with her child.

As for her marriage, what I hear is that he knew from the beginning that she had been poly, and this made him feel less than secure about being able to satisfy her, both emotionally and sexually. She agreed to be mono, but apparently edited her marriage vows to not include anything about being exclusive.
Then, after the kid was born, she suddenly needed other people in her life, and without negotiation, she found some people online and started "dating" them.
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This isn't poly. Dating others without first negotiating it properly with one's primary is cheating, not poly. Also, she's probably been neglecting her child while out dating this or that person (or just fucking them, as your use of quotes around the word dating seems to imply). Sounds like she has a very weak moral compass. Why doesn't Sanguin see this and feel turned off?

From what I've seen of her relationship with Sanguinist, she demands attention a lot. He even asked me at one point if I could "be the sane one" for a while, because he couldn't handle any more drama than what he was getting from her. Not that needing attention is bad, but he's always exhausted after he talks to her, even when she's had a good day.
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Ugh, that sounds unpleasant. Why is Sanguin so deeply involved with her if she's so much trouble?

I should mention that he's aware of my concerns, and tells me he does not intend to have her move in unless there's a plan for these things to work out. I trust him to stick to that, I'm just really nervous that something will come up to destroy that plan.
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Well, it sounds like he's a guy who can't say no. Why doesn't she just get her own place, or get in a house with roommates she is not fucking, for a change? It sounds like any plans he made about house sharing with her, she would agree to, only on the surface, until she just went ahead and did whatever she felt like anyway!

Adding in her supposed sub nature... bleh. She sounds like a master manipulator to me, from hearing what little you've said. Flitting from man to man, with her poor toddler in tow. Her refusal to meet you, and trouble making friends with women in general, is part of the unease, as well.

Trouble with a capital T!
 
I think he has a romantic view of her because he knew her when she was 17, his marriage had just broken up badly (the woman was physically abusing him), and Sleepsong walked in at the right/wrong moment.

I used "dating" to indicate that it began as a purely virtual relationship. She had these relationships for more than a year, and had visited those people several times before she moved here.

As far as I know, Sanguinist is entirely committed to our relationship, but he's also committed to theirs (though he has mentioned that he knows that if they broke up, it would be explosive and dramatic, and that if we did, it would be well-communicated and we'd both know what the real problem was).

As for why she would not have her own place, apparently she recently had her work hours cut. As for why she can't have roommates that she's not involved with, I have no clue. I don't think she knows all that many people here.

I would say that her current housemates are the type to take advantage of someone trying to help out. One of them has back problems that sometimes leave her incapacitated, and her husband is the kind of person that gives a child a toy and expects him to be fine for an hour of so. Yes, she just needs to stand up to herself, but I don't know all that much about the situation.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

I hope that I can make this work for as long as it takes him to figure all this out.
 
I also wanted to requote this:

She demands attention a lot. He even asked me if I could "be the sane one" for a while, because he couldn't handle any more drama than what he was getting from her. Not that needing attention is bad, but he's always exhausted after he talks to her, even when she's had a good day.
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If he's exhausted after just *talking* to her, why on earth would he consider *living* with her, and her toddler in is terrible twos? Please try and shake some sense into this man.
 
Honestly, I think he feels bad for her in the current living situation. I don't know exactly what she's telling him, though I know it involves a lot of crying.
He sounded doubtful about her moving in when he told me about it, but I think she's going to try to wear him down about it over time. And she's not above using the toddler (whom he loves) to manipulate him. (The first hint I got about this was when Sang said, "The best affordable day care she could find was the one at the end of my road." Why was she looking at day cares that are about an hour's drive from where she lives now?)

Thanks to those who offered advice. I may just open this topic and let him read what all of you think, with your objective perspective (not that there isn't some subjectivity from me, but I'm trying to like her here).
 
gypsygirl said:
I may just open this topic and let him read what all of you think, with your objective perspective (not that there isn't some subjectivity from me, but I'm trying to like her here).
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This is a great idea. It's always illuminating for all parties when more than one person posts here. You get to see his side from his perspective. Not that you don't already know his feelings on it, but sometimes writing stuff out allows people to get more out than they can say verbally. Also, more information from him will help us in offering feedback. So, I think he should take a look.
 
So, Sleepsong moves in next weekend. Z is with his dad for several months.

There is no solid plan on what she does when he wants me to stay over, except maybe, "she sleeps on the couch." Her only social interaction that I am aware of is a Tuesday night thing (with a social group that deliberately excluded me). So it seems I get to see him only on specific, very rigidly-scheduled times. And even then, our privacy is not assured.

All I get from him is "Can we please just try this, and see if it works, and stop stressing?"

Oh, and I overheard her telling him what he is "allowed" to have in his kitchen.

I am so afraid that we're not going to make it to our 1 year anniversary (2 weeks away).
 
Okay, so this is about you and Sanguinist, and has nothing to do with Goimir and KLP - correct?

gypsygirl said:
Sleepsong moves in next weekend. Z is with his dad for several months.

There is no solid plan on what she does when he wants me to stay over, except maybe "sleep on the couch." Her only social interaction that I am aware of is a Tuesday night thing (with a social group that deliberately excluded me ). So it seems I get to see him only on specific, very rigidly scheduled times. And even then, our privacy is not assured.

All I get from him is "Can we please just try this, and see if it works, and stop stressing?"

I overheard her telling him what he is "allowed" to have in his kitchen.

I am so afraid that we're not going to make it to our 1 year anniversary (2 weeks away).
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Have you told him bluntly how you are afraid he is letting her take everything over and will affect your relationship with him negatively? How you don't want to be dismissed and disrespected by her, or made to feel like a second-class citizen in the situation? Did you ever show him this discussion thread?
 
I left Goimir and KLP on their own thread. I was just reminded by being here on the forum that there were developments in THIS story.

Yes, I have told him all of these things. I have even told him that I feel like the speech I overheard about what he's allowed to have in his kitchen is the beginning of a bad trend that will lead to emotional abuse.

The last part is the only part that he's addressed.
 
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Well, then it will be up to you to maintain your sense of self and not slink away when she's there. You will have to step up your efforts to have a polite relationship with her.

If she is dismissive of you, do not let it go by. You will have to stand your ground as someone who has a place in his life. If there are things you won't stand for, don't let them get away with shit.

Wait-- who will sleep on the couch when you are there, you or her? I thought she was moving in, but into a spare room. She doesn't have to move in and into his bedroom, does she? Isn't there a space in the house she can designate as her room, separate from his?
 
There is no spare room. There is no spare anything. There are only 2 doors on the interior of his house that can be closed, and this is to the bedroom and bathroom. The rest of the house is two "porches" and a large room that can be said to have "areas"- a living room area, a kitchen area (that has an extra wall, and different floor) a dining area, and a nook he uses for recording his podcast. When she and her son stay, the son has to sleep in a potable crib in the main room.

I am going to try to stand up and all that... but it's going to be hard. The thing that bothers me most is I don't know if I can have sex with someone only one wall away. I tend to be very loud, and this could get very uncomfortable. Especially given that Goimir, the only other person that I'm dating, is over 300 miles away.
 
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gypsygirl said:
... I don't know if I can have sex with someone only one wall away. I tend to be very loud, and this could get very uncomfortable.
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Oh, yeah, I can relate. I'm a screamer. Can't be quiet, ever. Oh well, buy her some ear plugs. She should appreciate you showing up with a gift!
 
I agree with others that she sounds like trouble. But that's not the worst of your problems. I'd be way more concerned about your boyfriend's behaviour here. He is his own person: he was not forced to any of the choices he has made. Or maybe he was forced by her. So either your boyfriend is co-dependent in (what sounds like) a really unhealthy drama-filled relationship, or he is in an abusive relationship. Whichever it is, what kind of room is there for you in his life now that he is living with her?

I don't think I would stick around and wait for the drama to hit me.
 
Sounds like at this point, you've gotta just give them enough rope to hang themselves.

Scream all you want during sex. That should be a good thing! Scream extra loud! :D
 
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