New Relationship. No Advice needed...yet.

[BFTrick]

I've been interested in poly for 8 years and I finally found someone who is actually poly. On top of that, she is super big into nerdy/dorky stuff, which I love. Bla bla bla... Long story short, we are currently dating.

I don't have any pressing issues. I just wanted to know if you guys had any pointers for someone who has read a lot of poly material but hasn't experienced any of it.

I'll give you guys a quick summary of where we are:

I am approximately a month into this relationship. I feel nothing but warmth for her and her existing partner. (We are currently a V.) He and I are actually pretty similar in a lot of ways. We are both very logical, computer programmers, and dorks. We get along splendidly. I don't feel jealousy towards him, but I am a tincy bit jealous about their living situation. They have been living together for a year now. I don't get to see her that often because she lives 45 minutes away. I realize that there isn't really anything that can be done about their living situation, so it is something I just have to accept. Maybe at some point, if things go well enough, we can talk about a more complex living arrangement.

We've had a few misunderstandings about casual sex that I need to clarify at some point. But for right now, we are basically a closed group. I am actually okay with casual sex, but my partner and her bf are against it because they want to spend their energy on long-term commitments. This is a little frustrating, because I see her 1-2 times a week, but it is a worthwhile sacrifice.

 

[IrisAwakened]

It can be difficult when distance is the issue. I currently live 1.5 hrs from my partner, it is really difficult sometimes. We really make the best of the time we spend together and we get creative on the in-between days. Like a Skype date.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[AnnabelMore]

Overall, this sound like a great situation!

However, I do wonder about the exclusivity thing. It seems like it could cause resentment in the long-term. You say they want to be closed because they're more interested in long-term commitments, but why should that have to be the same for you? After all, you guys are in different situations. She's got a live-in partner she's with 7 days a week, whereas you're more isolated. To respect those differences, why can't you have a serious relationship with her, and fill your ample spare time with casual relationships with others? And, even if you are also genuinely interested in more serious relationships, having casual connections with others and seeing where they go is a good way to get there. She has two partners. Can't you be heading in that direction, as well? Why the control?

 

[BFTrick]

Overall, this sound like a great situation!

I'm very happy so far.

However, I do wonder about the exclusivity thing, it seems like it could cause resentment in the long-term. You say they want to be closed, because they're more interested in long-term commitments, but why should that have to be the same for you? After all, you guys are in different situations. She's got a live-in partner she's with 7 days a week, whereas you're more isolated. To respect those differences, why can't you have a serious relationship with her, and fill your ample spare time with casual relationships with others? And even if you are also genuinely interested in more serious relationships, having casual connections with others and seeing where they go is a good way to get there. She has two partners. Can't you be heading in that direction as well? Why the control?

Well, to be honest, I don't quite understand her exact feelings on casual sex. I shouldn't say that they are against it, because they occasionally have threesomes and what not, but it is rare. I think both of them were involved in the threesomes.

Of course, I talked to her about it, and seems that she is uncomfortable with the idea of it. For right now, I cut out all of the casual sex, but I want to understand her better, so I'm sure I'll bring it up again.

I do agree with you that her priorities on having serious relationships vs casual relationships should have no effect on me.

 

[AnnabelMore]

Crystal clear communication is mandatory in poly. There will be too many potential emotional landmines down the road, and if you're not understanding each other you won't be able to avoid them.

This can be hard for people sometimes, as in our culture there's this really silly idea that your partner should just magically understand you without you having to speak, that if they were connected to you they would be able to, like, read your body language and pick up on your feelings and figure it out. Best nip that in the bud early. People aren't mind readers. It really is best just to talk it out. You can be gentle in coaxing her into doing so, but you've gotta be firm too. This is too important to let slide-- not the casual sex thing, per se, although a double-standard will tend to wear you down if it's in place indefinitely, but the lack of communication that's causing the confusion about it.

It may be that she's afraid to be clear because she knows her feelings are unfair or irrational. Like maybe she wants you all to herself, and she's ashamed of that, because it's obviously not balanced. Let her know that it's okay for her to tell you how she really feels, that you won't judge her, and you guys will work it out together. Once you know where she's coming from, you can choose whether or not you want to compromise. For instance, you could say, "For your comfort, I'd be willing to hold off on pursuing anyone else for now, so we can have more time to solidify our relationship. But I want to reexamine that after, say, the new year."

 

[AnnabelMore]

Let me add to this and say that it's not enough to understand what she wants. When it's a potential point of conflict you have to try to understand why she wants it. Then you can deal with the real issue, whether it's fear of STDs, fear that you'll find someone unattached who wants to be exclusive with you and leave her, or a feeling like casual partners should be something you share so you can use the experience to help bond the more serious relationship. (I find that viewpoint kind of silly, but some people really do think that way.)

Sometimes it's something simple, but other times you've got to keep peeling back the layers of the onion until you've exposed the underlying motivation. It sounds like you probably get that, but I thought it was worth stating.

 

[BFTrick]

Let me add to this and say that it's not enough to understand what she wants... you have to try to understand why she wants it.

I totally agree.

We actually happened to talk a little bit last night, and we discussed casual sex a little bit. In her mind, it is too easy to hurt people with casual sex. All too often, one person ends up liking the other person and then there are hurt feelings. I can't say I disagree with this logic, because my casual sex partner (as of a month or two ago) wanted more, and I didn't reciprocate her feelings.

 

[AnnabelMore]

I feel a little silly nitpicking on this, but is there no room for people to develop feelings they didn't expect to have in the occasional casual threeway sex she and her other guy engage in?

 

[BFTrick]

is there no room for people to develop feelings they didn't expect to have in the occasional casual threeway sex she and her other guy engage in?

I think her problem with it is that it is often messy. Both of our last encounters ended with hurt feelings. But I see what you're saying, that she could also cause hurt in others, so why should she feel free to engage in casual sex and I shouldn't? I don't have the answer to that. Maybe she isn't interested in it since her last encounter? Maybe it is a frequency issue-- several times a year is okay, but not every week? It is worth talking about.

Oh, one other thing I should have added to my first post is that I am the young one in the relationship, at 24. She is 28 and her other partner is 36(?). Both of them have previous poly experience. At the moment (because my previous casual sex partner just told me about her hurt feelings), I feel foolish, as both my gf and her partner are against casual sex, and one of their main reasons is hurt feelings. It doesn't help that both of them are very intelligent. It is a little intimidating.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi BFTrick,

Are you male or female? Straight or bi?

Look deeply into your feelings around "casual" sex. Sex is always powerful, and the hormones released during foreplay, fucking and orgasm are biologically meant to cause a feeling of being bonded and "in love," as you saw with your "casual" partner who developed these feelings for you.

I think your very new gf has some double standards and lack of clarity going on. Personally, I think a new relationship of only one month duration is way too early to demand fidelity, especially since she and her other partner sometimes take part in threeways themselves!

I think you three need to have some serious talks, and take a good hard look at the fears your gf has around you having a casual or more serious relationship outside of your V. You are being groomed to be a unicorn (a male one, if you're male). Quite often unicorns are younger and more vulnerable emotionally and financially than their couple, and can be taken advantage of. Be true to yourself and work hard on establishing boundaries that are realistic for your age (the 20s are a time of experimenting and gaining self-knowledge) and your life goals.

 

[BFTrick]

Are you male or female? Straight or bi?

I'm a 24 year old bisexual male. I haven't ever been with a guy, but I would like to try. My gf is bi. Her partner is straight as an arrow.

Look deeply into your feelings around "casual" sex. Sex is always powerful, and the hormones released during foreplay, fucking and orgasm are biologically meant to cause a feeling of being bonded and "in love," as you saw with your "casual" partner who developed these feelings for you.

I don't see what you're getting at here. Can you word it differently?

I think your very new gf has some double standards and lack of clarity going on. Personally I think a new relationship of only one month duration is way too early to demand fidelity, especially since she and her other partner sometimes take part in threeways themselves!

I do think that on occasion it is hard for them to see my viewpoint because I hate talking about important things via phone/email/text/etc., so I wait until I can see her in person. I think sex is one of those topics. She obviously has her fill, living with one guy and occasionally seeing another. Her bf is probably pretty satisfied since he can have sex with her whenever I'm not around, but I do only get to see her once or twice a week.

This week I only get to see her once, so it is really difficult if I want to bring up an important issue and still have time to hang out and have fun.

I think you three need to have some serious talks, and take a good hard look at the fears your gf has around you having a casual or more serious relationship outside of your V. You are being groomed to be a unicorn (a male one, if you're male). Quite often unicorns are younger and more vulnerable emotionally and financially than their couple, and can be taken advantage of. Be true to yourself and work hard on establishing boundaries that are realistic for your age (the 20s are a time of experimenting and gaining self knowledge) and your life goals.

I do think my gf would be okay with me having a serious relationship outside of the V. She has been pretty forward saying that if I do have feelings for someone else, that I should be open and honest about it.

I do enjoy having casual sex and I know that I want to try it with guys. That is obviously a need she can't fill, so at some point that will have to be discussed. Maybe she would be okay with me having a relationship with a guy, but not casual sex with him?

 

[AnnabelMore]

Why is it all about what she's okay with, though? This is an unequal situation in terms of time, energy and commitment from partner(s) in her life versus in yours. You're well within your rights to prioritize what you want and need, not what would make her most comfortable, especially since she can't be everything to you right now.

It's completely natural and healthy to want to seek more casual encounters and then see what might develop. I honestly don't see how you're supposed to find another serious partner if you don't explore. I guess some people only see others with the intention of getting serious, but for me, starting slow and light and going from there leads to the best confections. And even if it's really just about the sex, that's okay! As long as you're honest with your partners and they're honest with themselves, there's no reason anyone has to be hurt by it.

And if hurt feelings do develop, that's for you to deal with, not her.

I know you feel intimidated by her age, experience, and intelligence, but you have to set the tone for this relationship that you are an assertive person with your own needs and desires that matter just as much as hers. You can be caring, and listen to her, and compromise with her (such as with the "just you for now, but with the intention of opening up after the winter" scenario I proposed), but if you accept something that leaves you feeling like you have lesser rights, you'll both end up thinking less of you, eventually.

Let me reiterate, as someone who also has her age and experience and is not unintelligent -- it is neither healthy not fair for her to tell you what kinds of other relationships you are allowed to have, especially when she is a relatively limited part of your life timewise, especially when it's a double standard, especially when you're young and have barely begun to explore your sexuality, especially when the sole reason she can articulate is a concern for the emotional well-being of your partners and a vague discomfort.

Just because she knows a lot doesn't mean she can't be acting in a way that's unfair to you and controlling, probably without even realizing it. Stand up for yourself, negotiate with her, and your relationship will ultimately be stronger than if you just give in to keep the peace.

 

[IndieSolo]

Hear, hear! What Annabel said!

(Annabel, you rock!)

 

[BFTrick]

Why is it all about what she's okay with, though? This is an unequal situation in terms of time, energy and commitment from partner(s) in her life versus in yours. You're well within your rights to prioritize what you want and need, not what would make her most comfortable, especially since she can't be everything to you right now.

This is true. I would appreciate one or two changes. But I can't decide how hard to push. Do I push her to the point where if she doesn't agree it is worth breaking up? I like the compromise idea mentioned earlier. I can wait X months. see how things go, and after that, have another discussion and hopefully we can change the agreement.

I know you feel intimidated by her age, experience, and intelligence, but you have to set the tone for this relationship that you are an assertive person with your own needs and desires that matter just as much as hers. You can be caring and listen to her and compromise with her (such as with the "just you for now, but with the intention of opening up after the winter" scenario I proposed), but if you accept something that leaves you feeling like you have lesser rights you'll both end up thinking less of you eventually.

It is neither healthy not fair for her to tell you what kinds of other relationships you are allowed to have, especially when she is a relatively limited part of your life timewise especially when it's a double standard, especially when you're young and have barely begun to explore your sexuality, especially when the sole reason she can articulate is a concern for the emotional well-being of your partners and a vague discomfort.

I do feel intimidated by her age, experience, intelligence, and the the fact that I am effectively a secondary partner right now. I usually am a very assertive person. I will discuss the casual sex issue (and a couple others) when I see her this weekend.

Just because she knows a lot doesn't mean she can't be acting in a way that's unfair to you and controlling, probably without even realizing it. Stand up for yourself, negotiate with her, and your relationship will ultimately be stronger than if you just give in to keep the peace.

Thanks, AnnabelMore.

 

[Magdlyn]

I don't know if you can do this, but it really helps when one's in a sort of LDR to keep in touch by electronic means several times during the week. My gf and I also live 20 miles apart, a 45 min drive, and even though we are primaries, I don't think we would have made it this far (almost 3 years) without daily IMing. It really brings us closer to be able to chat at the end of the day about mundane things (activities, friends, jobs, family issues, TV shows, errands we ran, whatever), as well as lovey sentiments and sometimes philosophical topics. It's so hard to find a good poly partner, it's worth the effort to keep closer in this way when we can't be physically together.

 

[BFTrick]

I don't know if you can do this, but it really helps when one's in a sort of LDR to keep in touch by electronic means several times during the week. [...] It really brings us closer to be able to chat at the end of the day about mundane things (activities, friends, jobs, family issues, TV shows, errands we ran, whatever), as well as lovey sentiments and sometimes philosophical topics. It's so hard to find a good poly partner, it's worth the effort to keep closer in this way when we can't be physically together.

Excellent idea! And interesting timing. My gf just suggested that we have a virtual lunch tomorrow. It sounds like a great idea. Thanks.

 

[AnnabelMore]

This is true. I would appreciate one or two changes. But I can't decide how hard to push. Do I push her to the point where if she doesn't agree it is worth breaking up? I like the compromise idea mentioned earlier, I can wait X months and see how things go. After that have another discussion and hopefully we can change the agreement.

It all depends on what you feel you want/need, and how intensely, AND how much you feel she is listening, respecting your needs, communicating with you about her own and compromising where possible. It's true it's not simple! But everyone has to figure out their personal boundaries, and this is you doing that. Listen to your feelings and you'll get it.

I do feel intimidated by her age, experience, intelligence, and the the fact that I am effectively a secondary partner right now. I usually am a very assertive person. I will discuss the casual sex issue (and a couple others) when I see her this weekend.

I think it's normal to feel an urge to defer to the more experienced person in a completely new, intense emotional situation. Maybe this would be helpful to you? http://www.xeromag.com/fvsecondary.html

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

Thanks, AnnabelMore.

[/QUOTE]

You're very welcome!

 

[redpepper]

I have a different take on this. I would go into this wondering when those threesomes occurred. Last year, last month? Has something changed now in them that wasn't important before? Are you that change?

I think the other posters have been a bit too hard on her, actually. I am wondering if she wishes you to not have casual sex with others because she wants the chance to get to know you better, in a serious way, and is concerned that you will be distracted or find someone else who can provide more than she can in terms or time. Someone that lives closer, even. She could be feeling threatened, and be talking about herself when she says that people get all emotional or whatever she actually said. I would be really careful not to make assumptions about what she said as control.

How much have you talked about where this is going? It's been such a short time. It seems that several posters seem to all have her wrapped up in a nice little package of who she is without clarifying and allowing time to unfold what is to be. What's the rush here? Dude is happy as it is. Sure, there are things to work on in the future, but there always are, and it's only just begun.

I agree, express your needs; give her some idea of where you want to go with this; but have some patience with her process, too. She might not have all the answers on how she is feeling yet, especially if she is used to something more casual and now suddenly has two boyfriends, one of whom she doesn't get to be with as much.

I dunno... if I were her, I would be saying similar things within this timeframe, if I loved you. Believing you are justified in going out and fucking someone that you don't know or care about just because you don't think she has a right to control you is dangerous, I think. You could lose her on those grounds just out of sheer lack of respect for her feelings that you don't seem to know anything about yet. I know I wouldn't be sticking around if I had decided to invest time, energy, love and a possible future with someone that said that I had no right to control them and that they were going to do whatever they wanted. That isn't the attitude I would look for in a partner and it would indicate that my poly is not their poly, so "good-bye."

 

[BFTrick]

I would be really careful not to make assumptions about what she said as control.

...

What's the rush here? Dude is happy as it is. Sure there are things to work on in the future, but there always are and its only just begun. I agree, express your needs, give her some idea of where you want to go with this, but have some patience with her process too.

Thanks for that. I'm still trying to figure out why she feels the way she feels about casual sex. As of right now I want to tell her how I feel about things (feeling intimidated, frequency of time, casual sex) and let things unfold. I don't think I'll be making any demands.

Thanks for some balance.

 

[IndieSolo]

I would just like to add that seeing someone once or twice a week doesn't seem infrequent to me. In fact, I'd view that as perfect! But I could see how you might feel deprived if you're the sort who wants a full-time partner with you every day, OR if you are comparing in your mind what you get to what your metamour (the guy she lives with) gets. So, be careful not to invest too much in comparing, because nothing ever seems fair when we do that to ourselves.

I would also not let her age play into this. There are only fours years' difference between you! How much wiser could she be? She's still in her 20s, like you are. She may have more experience, but so what? That doesn't negate your feelings about how you want to live your life. And while she and her live-in boyfriend may paint themselves as very experienced poly peeps, you have no idea if their style of poly matches how you would envision poly for yourself. There are so many ways to do it, and so many ways to do it badly. They could have totally fucked everything up before and that's why they're skittish about people getting hurt.

I do agree with RP that it's really new and you're worrying about stuff that seems out of proportion to the situation. It has only been a month, so why think about a "more complex living arrangement" or making any agreement not to see other people, when you are still just beginning and don't even know each other well yet? A month is... nothing! Once or twice a week for a month - so that means you haven't seen her much more than eight times. You still don't really know either of them yet, to be honest.

However, I do think it's important to establish what you want from the beginning, to avoid getting into a pattern in the relationship where you get walked on. You said in your first post: "We've had a few misunderstandings about casual sex that I need to clarify at some point. But for right now we are basically a closed group." Doesn't that seem backwards to you? That you would start off closed and then ask to open it? Think about it.

I would think it should be the other way around. You start off seeing each other casually, and also see other people, explore your sexuality and other relationships, and then after a while, after you know her and her boyfriend really well (I would say, at least six months in, but even that's hardly any time at all), if there's undeniably love between you and not NRE or infatuation, and trust has been established between all three of you, THEN determine if she is someone you want to be in a closed relationship with. Basically, she is poly, but now expecting you to be mono to her, if you're not going to also be with her other boyfriend. (And you're not, because he's straight.)

So, I would say that you need to have a discussion about these boundaries she and her boyfriend have placed on you. You agreed to this in a way that indicates, since they were already a couple and seem to be experienced, that they are in charge and you're just going along for the ride to learn from the nuggets of wisdom they bestow upon you. It's not even a triad and you're feeling like an appendage this early on -- not a good sign! I am sure you have much of your own wisdom and insight and preferences that shouldn't be taken for granted.

I think it would do you well to write down, free-associate, fantasize, about the things you would want from a poly relationship, look at what you're not getting from this situation, and tell her that that is what would make it work for you to move forward. Don't let her and her boyfriend make all the rules for your relationship. First of all, it's your relationship with her, not his. He should be managing his relationship with her, not yours. See what I mean? If they have understandings between the two of them that affect you in a way that makes you feel shitty, then I would rethink being involved with her at all.