Needing some help in dealing with this

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FatMouse

New member
Hello. I'm new to the forum and also sort of new to this whole thing.

I'm currently in a relationship with two guys, whom I love to pieces. My relationship with Dion has lasted nearly 5 years. The second, with Eli, started around September of last year.

Dion confessed he was into this. I wasn't very content at first, but I was having a hard time. Eli he's been a really close friend for many years. I fell for him hard a long time ago, and kept it to myself for many reasons, one of them being because I was taken.

I reached a point where I started to feel very depressed over it. I loved them both, but it was painful as hell for me to make a decision. Dion then told me that I knew what his views were, implying I could still ask Eli out. We all had a group conversation and, in the end, I accepted the proposition. Eli, surprisingly, was open-minded enough to accept this, as well.

Now here's the thing. Dion brought something up last night. He mentioned something about having a girl who maybe (keyword: maybe) has a crush on him. This led to a conversation about if someone fell for him, what he should do. It didn't go anywhere, because we just talked about the possibility. There was no yes or no (yet). This possibility kinda bugs me. I don't know if I'm okay seeing Dion getting intimate with someone else, but at the same time, I feel it's unfair not to allow him, when he has allowed me to date Eli. Two people we know have agreed with this, too.

I'm not at all used to this sort of relationship, so I can't help but feeling that I've failed at something, if Dion is considering dating other people when the chance appears. I can't help but feeling that he might find someone who provides what I can't provide, which would lead him to like me less. I appreciate the fact that he talks to me about this, but the whole talk makes me feel inferior, insecure, unloved, sad. I also tend to be very jealous. I don't know how this would work! I don't know if I'd be able to control my anger if he said "I love you" to some other girl. At the same time, I love him to death, so I don't think I want to leave him and become monogamous again. The thought of that depresses me.

I am not mad at Dion at all. I appreciate his honesty and the fact that we can communicate so well. I am just a very insecure person, with a number of issues, who was used to a certain lifestyle. I just need help in how to deal with this... new thing.
 
Sounds like you and I are feeling some of the same things. Everything is good when your partner says, "Sure! Date someone!" But when they do themselves, or in your case, just mention it, it feels like the world just turned upside down.

I'm only about a week into dealing with the idea myself, and my E has only had one make-out session with someone. I've had horrible dark days, great days, and normal days. It's getting better all the time, but I'm not out of the woods.

Hang in there, communicate a lot. You'll get there.
 
The best advice that I can give you about this sort of polyfidelitous relationship is talk it out. Express your opinions, emotions and feelings about how you feel about your first or second mate possibly adding someone else into your current poly network of three. You need to discuss it, as well as explain the costs if he decides to do this.

Clearly, both of them love you.

My major question is, are you in a triad or a V? Depending on the type of relationship. this can explain different options and answers.
 
Perhaps I missed something, GSAS082612, but I didn't get the impression that the OP was in a triad, or that there was any agreement made for polyfidelity.

I agree with the rest of your post, though; talk is good!
 
GSAS082612 said:
Are you in a triad or a V?
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Umm... can you maybe explain what that means? I seriously have no idea about the terms used here.

We sometimes talk about this. I think that if Dion suddenly came across someone who he falls for (let's say, a friend) as I fell for Eli, and said person reciprocated his feelings, I guess it wouldn't bug me as much, because things would be more genuine, and I don't want him to feel as miserable as I was when I felt I had to choose between him and Eli.

Now it would bug me a lot if he suddenly started to look for women. That would be a different story. I hope this makes sense.
 
It sounds like you want to be in a closed V, with you as the hinge, like, at this time, you are not open to an N-shape thing, where Dion and you both have another sweetie, so both of you are shared hinge people.

If you are not up for it, just say so honestly.

It is not about "fairness," like other people are cookies. You have one so he gets one. It is about what you are willing to be in and can do well. If you are not willing, do not play in that shape. It is better to be clear about your wants, needs, and limits.

If you do not want to, say so.

If you want to settle in to this "new normal" first, before contemplating other stuff, say so.

If it is a soft limit, that could change over time, say so.
If it is a hard limit, that will never change, say so.
If it is an unknown limit, but still a limit, say so.

It sounds like you are just getting used to a three-person configuration. Adding another player is changing up the polymath and changing the number of mini-relationships inside the greater poly network.

I sure as heck would not want that right away. There is enough stress now. Take it one bit at a time. It does not seem fair to your health to be piling on more stress. A new person in the family ranks a 39 on the stress scale. It may seem like just (Dion + Eli), and only 39 hit points for stress.

Other <---> Other (If they are in your poly network, now you have to deal with how well they know themselves, and how honest they are with themselves, because they are part of your world now.)
Other <--> You (Communication arrow = Do they communicate well with you? You to them?)
Other <--> (You + Dion)
Other <-->(You + Eli)
Other <--> BF1Other <-->(BF1+ You)
Other <-->(BF1 + BF2)
Other <-->BF 2
Other <--> (BF2 + you)
Other <-->(BF2 + BF1)
Other <---> (You + BF 1 + BF2)
(You + BF 1 + BF 2 + Other) <--- the whole gang here working as a team

The "Other" does not have to be everyone's lover, does not even have to be everyone's friend. But does the Other get along decently with the other people in this poly network; can they be basically friendly and polite?

Even when making the repeat layer ones grey so they do not count, that's 9 mini-relationships inside the potential 4 person network, with "Other" in it. There are other mini-relationships inside the bigger network that do not have Other in it (you to yourself, you to Dion alone, etc.).

But just those where "other" does appear-- nine. 9 x 39 stress hit points? 351 potential points if all those tiers are wobbly. Yay. Welcome to the land of stress-induced illness.

Now that's a worst-case scenario. The ideal would be no problems at all, 0 stress points. The reality is somewhere in between the range of 0-351. Your poly network could work to reduce stress so that everyone can take on the weight of adding a new player.

You are there. You know what your reality is, and what the actual stress number could be if you ask your people where they stand and how they feel about it. You guys determine what you can afford to pay for the price of admission if you choose to open again to include another player.

351 potential risk points is enough of a price tag to take a pause to reflect and think it out rally well, before going there. It can be done. But make sure all your players are fit for it and up for it.

WHAT are we taking on? Are we fit enough to go there?
WHEN could we go there to minimize stress?
HOW could we go there to minimize stress?
Everyone is responsible for their own well-being.

Galagirl
 
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FatMouse said:
This sounds so complicated.
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It doesn't have to be. Lots of people manage without that "points" system, or whatever that was that GG worked out! :oops: Things can be as simple or as complicated as you make them.
 
"You get two, I get two"

This is something Dion told me. He said I was being hypocritical when I got upset that he might consider adding someone else. I asked him and he said he would be unhappy if he fell for someone and had to choose or reject them.

When I got with Eli, Dion said that a three-way relationship was okay, that it would work just fine. Not too long ago he said that he was willing to accept more, but he didn't tell me for fear of me getting angry and dumping him, so he lied to me.

I showed this concern of his second partner having more partners, their partners having more partners, and having a load of people involved, and he said that not all people are into that. Eli is not the kind who would date anyone else besides me, so I don't know what to believe.

I'm confused. Can anyone explain me how the hell this works? I'm starting to feel stressed out again.
 
It doesn't have to be complicated. My point in listing all that is for you to not be afraid to say, "I do not want to include another person right now. This is plenty overwhelming for me, as it is, with three people."

If more people would just own it and speak straight-up, from the beginning, then they wouldn't suffer later because they were too afraid to just put the brakes on it. They went against their own willingness, their own best health, for fear of seeming selfish. Well, it is what it is. This is what you can handle at this time, no more, no less. Here is your limit right now.

You are responsible for your own well-being. So just say so. "I'd be happiest in this new V, as a closed polyship, at this time. I do not want to be in a 4-person polyship. That seems stressful. I'm not willing or ready right now."

There. Done. Dion can then make his next choice based on that information. You sent it to his desk. Until the memo comes back to your desk, it isn't your problem.

I think you guys could sort out what you want for open relationship models. Talk it out. It seems part of the reason you feel overwhelmed could be that you guys did not talk enough about how to be in a poly relationship together before jumping in. You could sort that out.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/A._Wagner_-_Avoid_the_Pitfalls_of_Polyamory.pdf
 
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I just hope he understands. When he told me he would be unhappy if he were not able to date, I felt guilty. So... yeah.
 
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FatMouse said:
When he told me he would be unhappy if he's not able to date, I felt guilty.
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What about asking him to hold off dating others right now, while you guys address some of your insecurities about the idea? Therefore, you are not saying no forever. Changing the status quo is never easy and can take some getting used to before you're mentally ready to face it.

What are you afraid of? Do you even know? So many times just the thought of something sets off all our alarms and sends us into panic, but once we have time to calmly dissect it, there are really one or two items at the heart of it. Granted, they can be major factors, but once identified, solutions can be found to minimize or alleviate your insecurity.

Is it really that you can't "share," or is it more a fear of if you did, it would feel like a competition, and he could or would choose her?
 
SNeacail said:
What about asking him to hold off dating others right now, while you guys address some of your insecurities about the idea? Therefore you are not saying no forever.

So many times just the thought of something sets off all our alarms and sends us into panic, but once we have time to calmly dissect it, there is really one or two items at the heart of it. Granted, they can be major factors, but once identified, solutions can be found to minimize or alleviate your insecurity.
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I didn't want to say no forever. I want to wait until I'm ready to deal with the idea. All of this came on so sudden and unexpectedly.

Like I said before, Dion once told me he was okay with just me dating two people and that was it. Now he has changed his speech, told me that he lied and came up with this, which caught me off guard. I'm all conflicted and my mind is a mess because of this. I don't know what to do.

I don't even know if I have insecurities...

I don't think I would have any if his other love were genuine, and not just a woman he found.

I am just not ready yet. This happened so suddenly, during a time in my life where I'm having a load of stress at home, a load of things to sort out in my mind. I was not expecting this kind of discussion with him. At all.

I swear I do not know how I would react. I am extremely confused. I don't know if it's the fact that I can't share. I don't know. I only know I'm not comfortable with the idea, I don't know if I will be later or not. I'm just not ready. I wish he would understand that.
 
Like I said before, he once told me he was okay with just me dating two people and that was it. Now he's changed his speech, told me that he lied and came up with this, caught me off guard. I'm conflicted... I don't know what to do.
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Of course you are confused and conflicted. He lied and broke trust. All the more reason to stop and say no. Give yourself the time you need to get calmer and get a handle on yourself. Then deal with you two getting into a more stable place.

You guys have to rebuild your trust. Who wants to be building new things on a shaky foundation? :confused: That's not healthy.

He does not have to understand it right now. (But it would be nice if he could get there.) Right now, he has to hear you and respect your limit. You could state your position loud and clear:

"I am at my limit. I am not ready at this time. I am too stressed to take this on board right now. So the answer is no. I do not have a timeframe for when that might change, so treat it like a hard limit "No, never, not like this, with broken trust."​
​

He could either:

a) Deal with the news, process his feelings, and treat you respectfully because he wants to open again with your goodwill and your blessing. He could wait until time passes a bit, and you can both approach this calmly and do the work to rebuild trust and prepare to open again in a healthy way, for him to be able to date.​
​
b) Deal with the news, process his feelings, and treat you disrespectfully, because he just wants this, and does not care about doing it with your goodwill and blessing. He could go on to rush you to make decisions you do not want to make when you are stressed out.​

Then you can choose:
​
a) If he treats you well, consistently, you stay. You get comfortable. You grow more trust. You might change that to a soft limit. You might give it the green light. Only the passing of time and your trust in him will answer that. You can't know the end of the story before reading the book.​
​
b) If he treats you badly, without concern for your well-being, you leave. It will hurt, but better to get out of the line of fire than try to practice polyamory with a person who doesn't care about his partner's or partners' well-being.​

Plain and simple, your stress level is telling you a message. Listen, rather than shut down. Or if you're shut down, that's the big red alert that you are not just at your limit here, you're beyond your limit. So, put the brakes on.

Everyone has to hold their own emotional baggage. Let him be responsible for his. You be responsible for yours. See if you can talk and sort it out.
 
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FatMouse said:
Now he told me that he lied, caught me off guard. I'm all conflicted and my mind is a mess.
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I heard a definition for "intimacy" at one point that I really liked. "Having the ability to hurt someone and not doing it." In a relationship setting this would be akin to telling my loved one something painful or humiliating to me, trusting that they would not post it on Facebook the next day, or bring it up during an argument at some later date. I have given them something they can hurt me with and they (hopefully) have demonstrated that they will not hurt me with it, thus building intimacy between us.

Dishonesty is an intimacy killer (if we can continue to use the definition above). If I cannot depend on someone being honest with me then I am much less likely to share delicate issues with them. Will they hurt me with them? I don't know anymore.

It also sounds like you guys need to have an unambiguous conversation about how you would like this to play out. Be precise, don't make sweeping generalizations, and say what you actually mean. All of this guessing and hoping is going to end poorly.
 
Gala, thank you for your advice. He said he didn't tell me at first because I was stressed out back then, and he didn't want to make it worse, or cause me to dump him out of anger. Do you think it might have been a (failed) attempt at protecting me and our relationship? Just wondering. He's not around at the moment, but we're planning to have a talk later. I hope it goes well.
 
GSAS082612 said:
Are you in a triad or a V? Depending on the type of relationship, [there can be] different options and answers.
Click to expand...

FatMouse said:
Can you maybe explain what that means? I seriously have no idea about the terms.
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FatMouse, GSA is asking if Eli is also romantically involved with Dion.

In a triad, all three people are involved romantically/sexually with each other. The stereotypical example of a triad is a couple (usually straight guy/bi gal) that is looking for a girlfriend for both of them.

In a V, two people are involved with "hinge" person, but not with each other. I get the impression that this is your configuration.

This is my configuration-- I have a husband and boyfriend, but they are not boyfriends to each other, although they are best friends. I am the hinge of the V and they are the arms. Hope that helps.

JaneQ
 
Ooh, I see. Thank you for the explanation!

No, my mates are not involved with each other in that way. They know each other and sometimes talk, but that's all.
 
He said he didn't tell me at first because I was stressed out back then, and he didn't want to make it worse, or cause me to dump him out of anger. Do you think it might have been a (failed) attempt at protecting me and our relationship?
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So your relationship is a delicate flower that will fall over with the first wind? Why be in a relationship with such a flimsy foundation? :confused:

Or does he think you are a delicate flower who can't take life as it comes?

I suspect it is more him -- he didn't want to have to deal with it. From fear, from shirking, from whatever. For me, a "soft lie" is still a lie. It's just not being honest, no matter how you slice it. :( How can you practice polyamory in a healthy way with someone you cannot trust?

Is that how you want to live your poly life, with the flimsy foundation of an untrustworthy partner? That's not choosing to open at a time where you are as strong and as healthy as possible.

I'm not trying to be mean or the voice of doom here. Just try to keep it real over there. Sort yourselves out. Do not proceed any further until these things are addressed to satisfactory conclusion before adding even more people to the mix.

You can practice polyamory with whatever number all of you feel is best for your situation, but do it at a pace all of you can handle. Everyone has a "poly-saturation" point.

How about he "protects" the relationship trust from taking dings in future by choosing not to lie to you? And you could receive information in a way that creates a safe place for it to be shared. No shooting the messenger. Work on better trust, healthier conflict resolution, better communication.

Or, if he is not worth it, and you get too little return on your investment, walk away.

Only you know what is happening over there. I hope your talk reaches a conclusion for you one way or the other.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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I think we are getting to an agreement. That's a good thing.

I asked Dion what the deal was. He told me he was not going to actively look for a partner. He said he wanted to have a space open, in case someone who was dear to him (as Eli is to me) might appear. That makes more sense to me.

I said it was all cool. I don't mind it. I only asked him to give me some time. I said I was not ready for more people just yet. I still needed to get adjusted to the whole situation.

I started this sort of relationship on September last year. Not a very long time, imo. I need to have my mind clearer. I'm stressed about a number of other things, so relationship problems are the last thing I need. I said this and he understood.

The problem with lying ended up being a big misunderstanding. We talked that out too. I asked him to tell me about whatever happens and he agreed.

I guess it's all cool now(?).
 
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