Ex wants to talk...

leelee22

leelee22

New member
I dumped my bf a couple weeks ago. I was upset about my status in the thing. He was claiming his GF was unwilling for me to be anything more than purely a sex partner to him. He has gotten in touch and "wants to talk."

I said I would. (Cowering now, and peering over shoulder, expecting BoringGuy to clobber me with a couple of brutal sentences.)

I am not really sure whether this means he wants to see if he can renegotiate new terms with me. I'm not convinced he has enough authority. His GF seems to have all the power in their relationship. But between dumping him and now, I have read a lot on this board (and off it), and feel like I know a little bit about how these relationships can work, when done right. I wouldn't mind talking with him about it. He is a PhD, it's within his capacity to understand. But unfortunately, I'm shy in person, and won't be as articulate as I'd like to be.

Also, while I think he'd understand my vision of what a poly relationship could be, I don't think he could sell it to his GF. And if we were to try again, I think I'd need some kind of direct communication from her about what precisely she is agreeing to. Don't want to hear it secondhand from him. I maybe even would demand to actually meet the woman.

Anyway, wish me luck. I'm going to try to sit a couple chairs away from this guy, so I can't smell his scent while trying to make my points. I won't look at his muscular cyclist calves or touch his silky curls.

Will report back about how it goes...
 
leelee22 said:
...I was upset about my status ...Cowering now, and peering over shoulder... clobber me ...brutal ...

I am not sure ... I'm not convinced... unfortunately I'm shy in person and won't be as articulate as I'd like to be.

... I don't think he could sell it to his GF....

Anyway, wish me luck...
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I don't think it's luck you need, sweetie.
 
Good luck.

Don't allow yourself to be smooth talked and to accept less than what you need or want, though. It is very hard having to negotiate your relationship depending on the whims of another person. I know it very well. It is like a Sword of Damocles hanging over the whole relationship when you know it could be renegotiated without your input and you just have to put up with it because they hold the keys as a 'primary'.

It is not a stable position to be in, long term, so stick to your principles and take care of yourself first.
 
Good luck! Ask for what you want and stand your ground.
 
I bet this guy has a really big dick and is awesome in the sack. That's probably why the OP can't say no to him. I can tell by the way she talks about his scent and his calves and his silky curls. Don't stop there. Tell us all about him. 😅
 
Why would you want to be with someone whose girlfriend has their balls in a choke hold? He needs to man up. I am not even being sarcastic. I mean this in the best way possible.

If he is a grown man, he should be in control of his life and his affairs. At the end of the day, he has to live for himself and not for her. He should not have to pitch an idea like he is meeting with the board of a company in order for them to manufacture and sell the product.

He must like it because he let you walk away. Maybe he likes being controlled. Whatever works and floats people's boats. If he loved you or even liked you, I doubt he would have let you walk away that easily. He needs to figure out what he wants and lay down the law with his girlfriend. You need to stand your ground and be firm. Confidence is your friend. It is okay to be shy, but when facing him, straighten up, look him the eyes, and listen to him, and lay the facts out. "I am not your sex toy. I am a human with real feelings, and I do not appreciate being treated like...."

Resist the oh so sexy muscles, the spiraly curls on his head, the scent of his cologne, the smell of his tooth paste, the aroma of his aftershave, the piercing depths of his eyes that are windows to his soul, etc. I know you did not say all of this, but I wanted to add that.

Good luck!
 
If I were you I would do nothing with this guy unless there was open and honest communication with his other girlfriend...

There are other men out there who will treat you the way you want to be treated.
 
Wow, tough crowd...

I guess from my perspective, this couple deserves a little tolerance. They are new to this, and she isn't comfortable. I can empathize with that.

Also, their situation is a bit unusual. The reason they tried an open relationship in the first place was to permit him to have sex with men, not women. Not sure if it's the same everywhere, but in Toronto (a very gay-positive city) gay and bi men tend to have pretty casual FWB-type relationships outside their primary relationships. I suspect that before I came along, that type of secondary relationship for him (with men) was the only kind this couple had experience dealing with. I don't think he set out to intentionally treat me badly; they just didn't really anticipate that I might have different needs and wants than a man would. I think it was more a case of making mistakes than taking advantage. All round.

Maybe that's an over-generous analysis on my part... But I'm going to err on the side of tolerance and hear what the guy has to say. It's just a conversation, for heaven's sake.
 
All right. If you are going to take a meeting, ask him for the agenda, so you can deal with your worries about feeling shy, not articulate, and unprepared, and get your own proposal in order if you are going to start up again.

Get it out on the negotiation table straight up this time: his proposal to you for a relationship, and your counter offer. Then deal with the wife's buy-in or not.

It's either a match across all players or not.

Be prepared to walk away if the offer is less than stellar. Only accept stellar. You already had less than stellar here before. Remember you dumped him for a reason. For you to reconsider, it better be super stellar.

Would you want to write out what you are thinking you want from this relationship, and have forum people give you feedback on your own proposal to help you prepare?

Whether you want other's input or not, you could just print it out and fork it over for him to read. There. Done. No worries about being shy or articulating verbally. Just fork it over. Discuss your hard limits (what will never change, dealbreakers) and soft limits (what could change in time.)

Remember you can always say, "No, thanks. I vote no confidence. I cannot allow myself to accept this proposal."

GG
 
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Fine, have your "conversation," then come back here and complain about how his wife texted him the whole time and forced you to apologize to her for it, or whatever. We're all ears.

I think I might be thinking of someone else with the apologizing bit, but it still fits in with this one, so I'm leaving it.

First time, second time, shame on you.

No one ever does what they're supposed to do.

Sixth time, seventh time, shame on me.

Never let yourself become a parody.

Never should have let you take a poke at me.

But I was open wide.

Shouldn't be so hard for people to agree.

But I don't wanna, you don't wanna, nobody wants to try...
 
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GG, that is a bang-on idea. I will write something up today and post it here tonight.

BoringGuy, I googled that poem/lyric. The interwebs think Justin Bieber wrote it. I rather suspect not. But your point is taken. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice and I deserve to be whacked upside of the head with a trout. If he and I meet and all I hear is "No, nothing's changed. I just miiiissss youuuu," I will concede that I am indeed an idiot.
 
Oh, I didn't know the background, that he had been given permission to have casual sex with men, but falling in love with another woman was a big ol' threat to his primary.

I went through this same scenario a few years back. The wife was seemingly semi-OK with me in her husband's life at first, but kept putting up roadblocks-- "Wait til spring, when his seasonal affective disorder ended; wait til he found a better job; wait til they got certain home improvements done." Finally when we all met and talked, it came out that she only wanted him to have anonymous Craigslist sex with random guys.

I was glad to finally get the clarity! Plenty of other fish in the sea for me! Yes, the guy in question was all romantic and full of major regrets to lose me. Feh. I need a man with balls and respect and the ability to love others, a true poly guy. Thanks anyway, dude, and have fun with your meaningless MM sex.
 
Definitely not Justin Bieber. I have never heard a Justin Bieber song in my life and wouldn't quote from one. It's by a local artist you probably wouldn't recognize. It's also 20 years old.
 
Hi there. You know how couples will have their set of rules or boundaries that they agree to when they embark on poly? And then any of their respective additional partners have to assess whether or not, and how, the rules of that one couple would would affect them?

I firmly believe that all solos need to develop their own set of personal boundaries as well. When a couple, or one person in a couple, presents any rules or boundaries that they expect any additional partners to respect or comply with, then it is up to the solo to then present his or her boundaries that the person or couple must also respect in order to be in relationship with them. If they balk, what is there to consider? If you accept their terms without them accepting yours, then your boundaries mean nothing and you set yourself up for disaster and being walked all over.

Have you developed your set of boundaries? If so, what are they? If one of your boundaries is not to be treated like a sex toy, and they have a rule that you can only be be with him for sex and no feelings are allowed between you, then you are obviously not compatible. That is time to say, "Thanks but no thanks" and walk away. Without looking back. It seems that is what you did - but now you are looking back. Have you changed your boundaries? If you don't have a set of boundaries, that is not healthy, and I suggest you figure out and develop them NOW.

Some of my boundaries that absolutely must be respected are: no metamour will dictate the terms of my relationships; I am always respected as an autonomous person who makes my own decisions; and I need to communicate directly with any metamours before embarking on a relationship with someone who is in a committed relationship with someone else (just to confirm what I am being told, and that there is consent for him to have additional partners). There are a few more, and they do apply to anyone I get involved with. Yes, of course I will respect matters having to do with time management, especially if a man I get involved with is a parent. I totally understand if a couple has a specific night designated for them, for example, but no one should be managing any relationship except the people in it. Therefore, things like a wife or gf having veto power or forbidding emotional involvement do not fly with me, no matter how hot the guy is or how good he smells. I have walked away from several hot guys basically because their wives had them on leashes and expected to limit who I could be in relationship with those men, or there was a DADT policy between them. Neither of those scenarios respect MY boundaries, so it's a no-go for me, no matter what!

When you meet with him, the best way to be prepared, IMHO, is to review and remind yourself of your own personal boundaries and ask whether or not he and she have the ability and willingness to commit to respecting them (and, therefore, you).
 
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UGH! I just spent nearly an hour typing out those terms i said I'd write into a reply, and then it wouldn't load. Almost don't have the energy to do it all again... here goes:

Leelee's Terms

His partner:
Full disclosure to your partner
Direct confirmation from her (email, phone, or in person) that these terms are ok with her
Preferably, let me meet her
Ideally, socialize with the two of you occasionally


His engagement with my life:
Email, text, or phone contact, at least every 3 days
Be willing to hear about my life events; share yours
Take an interest in my plans, hopes, dreams; share yours
Be willing to meet my kids if the opportunity arises

Time together:
Make time for me at least 3X a month (we both have significant time constraints, this is not solely his issue)
Only one of those 3 meetings can be at Oasis (a sex club he likes and I don't like)
Have permission to spend time together without having sex (e.g., go out for a drink after work)
Have permission to go out for dinner or to a cultural event with me occasionally (this was one of his GF's dealbreakers)
Come to my house within 3 weeks of making this agreement (he has never been to my house, however, we do live more than an hour's drive apart)

Make me a priority, consistent with the degree to which our time together enriches your life and makes you happy. This may mean "manning up " and defending our time together when other people are trying to book you to do stuff on our time, or reinforcing to your partner that having me in your life is a need that you want met
Ideally, have permission to go away with me on an overnight, e.g., to the cottage. Your GF is welcome to come, too.

Emotional connection:
Do not spout, ascribe to, secretly ascribe to, or profess to your girlfriend any bullshit re: avoiding emotional involvement in this relationship. Be emotionally available, be attached, and have the balls to act like you're attached to me.

Ok, that's the rough rewrite ... thoughts?
 
It's nice how you separated your non-negotiables from your ideals; showing some good self-awareness and obvious introspection.

To add: If you're anything like me, I like to feel like my relationships are "progressing" - so assuming your absolutely-must-be-respected boundaries aren't crossed, maybe I'd think about adding a timeline/deadline for the other things I'd preferably want. Can be explicitly stated if you desire. Depends on where or how long you want this to go.

Leelee22 said:
If he and I meet and all i\I hear is, "Nothing's changed, I just miiiissss youuuu," I will concede that I am indeed an idiot.
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Beating yourself up for having hope when you've made measures to protect yourself if those hopes are dashed doesn't make you an idiot. It just makes you hopeful. After all, "It's just a conversation, for heaven's sake."
 
leelee22 said:
UGH! I just spent nearly an hour typing out those terms i said I'd write into a reply, and then it wouldn't load.
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Make sure whenever you login here that you check the little box that says "Keep me logged in" or however it is worded. Then your posts won't time out while you are writing long ones.


It's a good start! I think you should take out all the instances where you've written "have permission." That sounds like you are requesting those things from his GF and not him, and that you are saying she is in control of him. Just state what you want from him. It's up to him to manage how he is going to meet your terms, if he is willing. If she has his balls in her purse, that's his problem. He will have to do his renegotiating with her if he is going to meet your terms, but you can't really tell him to "get permission." That just sounds like he's 12 years old and needs a note from Mommy. And when you say, "I want you to get permission to do such-and-such," you are not acknowledging that it is his own choice in the matter.

Here is how I would re-word what you wrote (my changes will be in bold):

leelee22 said:
Leelee's Terms

Full disclosure to your partner
Direct confirmation from her (email, phone, or in person) that these terms are ok with her
Face to face meeting with her, either with or without you
[I took out the "occasional socializing" bit because IMHO you can't really expect or force that. Healthy, respectful metamour relationships can still work very well without socializing together. It's great if it happens, but I wouldn't make it a necessity. That's just my take on it, so I thought I'd throw it out there to you, but if it's very important to you, then by all means leave it in.]

His engagement with my life:
Email, text, or phone contact, at least every 3 days
Be willing to hear about my life events; share yours
Take an interest in my plans, hopes, dreams; share yours
Be willing to meet my kids once trust and a commitment is established [you should be in control of when that happens]

Time together:
Make time for me at least 3X a month (we both have significant time constraints, this is not solely his issue)
Only one of those 3 meetings can be at Oasis, but is not required (a sex club he likes and I don't like) [IMO, why agree to go at all if you don't like it?]
Spend quality time together without having sex (e.g., go out for a drink after work) [you do not say how often you want to do this! If he only can see you 3x/mo., how about at least once a month, you agree to non-sexual activities?]
Go out to dinner or to a cultural event with me occasionally (this was one of his GF's dealbreakers)
Come to my house within 3 weeks of making this agreement (he has never been to my house)

When we have plans to be together, stick to them and do not cancel unless there is an emergency. To be in relationship with me, I must be a priority, consistent with our mutual emotional investment and the amount of time we can spend together. Do not expect me to acquiesce and rearrange my schedule if other people want to book time with you that has already been booked for me.

Reinforce to your partner that having me in your life is a need that you want met.

Go away with me on an occasional overnight, e.g., to the cottage. Your GF is welcome to come too.

Emotional connection:
Be honest and upfront with your GF regarding any emotional involvement with me. Do not make me a dirty little secret. Be emotionally available, attached, and out about it.
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Alternatively, just use Word and then copy and paste. I don't trust website with myyyyyyyy precioussssssssssssssssssss.... ;)

Nice list, with good boundaries. Good luck with the conversation, Leelee!
 
Thanks, Natja and NYCindie.

Spot-on about the "permission" comments. This guy is even more shy than me and just as unassertive. I think he tends to fall back on "GF won't let me," when he really means, "I'm afraid to ask her." I shouldn't put up with that.

She is unlikely to accept a face-to-face meeting. She thinks I'm too far beneath her. She thinks I am a whore, for no good reason, I might add. This is not a relationship that grew out of a concealed affair. They were open when I met him.

I think ex-BF would reject the whole proposal if he thought he had to convince her to meet me. So I will have to ponder that one. But all the rest of the changes make very good sense

I will let you know how it goes.
 
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