Frustration negotiating boundaries

[9minutes]

Hi all. I’m hoping to get some advice (or just to vent) about some issues that have been coming up in my relationship. I’ve been with my partner, Jesse, for four years. We’ve been living together for almost one year. A couple months ago, he started a friendship with a woman, Mina, which evolved to include intimacy. They see each other pretty regularly. They have had sex once, and continue to fool around.

I’ve been struggling with my jealousy over this, which is compounded by the fact that I’m finding it difficult to accept that he’s interested in a woman. I’ve known him as a gay man for four years, so this sudden attraction to a woman is strange to me, but it’s not up to me to make a judgment on this, and it is neither here nor there.

Anyway, I’ve been trying to allow myself to examine my jealousy and fully feel it, etc., because I know it’s my own issue to work out. Lately though, I’ve been feeling like Jesse isn’t on my side in all of this. When we talk about things that I’m comfortable with, my jealousy seems like more of an inconvenience to him than something he wants to help me through.

As an example, I’ve previously told him I’m uncomfortable with the idea of him having sex with someone else in our bed, because I need to feel that there’s a private space that’s just for us. A few days ago, he asked me if that was still the same, or if there was some leeway. We live in small apartment in NYC, so there’s not much space, and apparently Mina, who lives alone, only has a single bed. I reaffirmed that I still wouldn’t be comfortable with it. He said he respected my feelings on that, but then asked me for suggestions on what he can do if he can’t use my bed. I couldn’t think of anything, and he kept pushing, asking if he could use our bed if he changed the sheets, etc.

I didn’t like the implication—it felt like he was implying that since I wasn’t comfortable with them using our bed, it was my job to come up with a solution. I told him that I didn’t have any other suggestions, and that frankly I felt like it wasn’t my problem to solve. This led to snide remarks from him about buying a separate bed for our room, and how space in New York doesn’t accommodate “my rigidity.” I felt like even though he stated that he respected what I was comfortable with, and what I wasn’t, it was just something he said to try to convince me to be more comfortable with what was convenient for him.

Another example-- the other night we were both going to hang out at Mina's house to watch TV. He asked me if I was comfortable with him kissing her in front of me, or holding her hand in front of me. I told him that I didn’t think I would be, and he said that he was going to try it anyway, as a way of testing to see if it made me uncomfortable.

Well, we get there, and after a while, Jesse and Mina are full on cuddling, fully embraced on one couch, while I’m on another by myself. I hated it. I was expecting him to put his hand on her leg, or hold her hand or something. They even kissed goodbye when we left. I felt like the third wheel with my own boyfriend. After we left, I told him that it went too far for my comfort, but that it might have actually been a good thing that it went too far, because it made me more sure of my boundaries. He asked me what those boundaries were, and I said that I would be ok with some affection, but that the way they were full-on spooning made me feel like I was a third wheel. His response was just: “Well, if it were me, I wouldn’t mind feeling like a third wheel for an hour or two per week,” and accused me of being selfish and only thinking of how things affect me.

I’m starting to feel like I don’t even want to talk about what I’m comfortable with or not, because it’s just met with hostility and resentment. Am I way off base here? I’m not even trying to tell him what he can and can’t do with Mina when I’m not around. These issues that have come up recently are related to things that directly affect me, i.e., our bed, and how comfortable I am with him being affectionate with her when I’m around.

I don’t really know if I’m asking a question, or if I’m more just frustrated and needing to vent. I don’t really know how to go about discussing these things with him in a more productive way.

 

[Marcus]

I’m starting to feel like I don’t even want to talk about what I’m comfortable with or not, because it’s just met with hostility and resentment.

And it sounds like he has no intention of taking your feelings into consideration, in any case. Honestly, he's not being a very respectful human. Regardless of his motivation, he asked you about your feelings, and promptly blew them off because he didn't like the answer... which is bullshit.

I don't have much in the way of advice for you. I don't know how to deal with someone who is blowing off my feelings. The only thing I could say is that I wouldn't go out with the two of them again until either he chooses to respect your lack of comfort, or you become more comfortable with it.

As far as the bed is concerned... remind me why they can't go to her place?

 

[london]

You've obviously agreed to him seeing other people, so I personally don't think it is fair for you to constantly put barriers in the way of him doing so. When they are hooking up, why don't you go out? See someone yourself instead of hanging around worrying about whether they kiss or hold hands? If you don't want to see them being cosy, why go to her place? You think you should be able to go there, and they should just act like buddies? Let him go and see her whilst you enjoy your own life.

I am all for compromise and respecting each other's feelings, but what are you doing to compromise? What are you doing to embrace his other relationships, instead of merely tolerating them? Think about the ways that you are actively preventing them from having a relationship that develops as they want it to. I am really not a believer in the idea that poly works at the pace of the slowest person. I do not think it is ethical to agree to polyamory and then put restrictions on who the other person can date and how they can date them. I think you need to work on your jealousy, alone, and only then will you be able to view the situation objectively.

What you need to ask yourself is whether you can feel valued whilst he is seeing other people. Those people may be women. If you cannot, perhaps it would be better to move on, because he obviously wants to have relationships with other people, including women. That is what makes him happy, having multiple romantic relationships, not having one romantic relationship and then little liaisons outside of that.

I hope to god that since you have all these hang-ups about the affection they are allowed to display, you stay true to your own boundaries and never expect him to be affectionate to you in front of her. He may be your boyfriend, but polyamory means that he may be other people's boyfriend too.

I think that the separate bed idea is great! What issue do you have with that? I can see the only issue being that you thought stopping them sharing a bed would limit the intimacy they share, and now this suggestion completely halts your plan to obstruct their relationship. Your issue was you two having your own private bed that nobody else entered, so you'd still have that. What a great compromise, right?

If, in the time that he isn't with her, he is meeting your needs, you still have a healthy romantic relationship, and he is still the boyfriend you have always had, I really think this is all on you, and you have to cope with your feelings of jealousy. Right now, all I can see you doing is making boundaries based on fears and insecurities that you won't examine and deal with, which prompts you to try and control his other relationships. That will only head one way: a way where you get dumped for being domineering, controlling and jealous.

 

[IndieSolo]

Anyway, I’ve been trying to allow myself to examine my jealousy and fully feel it, etc., because I know it’s my own issue to work out. Lately though, I’ve been feeling like Jesse isn’t on my side in all of this. When we talk about things that I’m comfortable with, my jealousy seems like more of an inconvenience to him than something he wants to help me through.

On the one hand, you say you know it's your issue, but then your whole post is a rant about how he isn't doing enough to "help you through" your jealousy. It isn't his job to help you through your feelings. The things he is doing now are only a trigger, not the cause. You could have him shackled 24/7 and still feel jealous. They are your feelings. So own them and deal with them. Look at your insecurities and ask yourself where they're coming from. Dig deep and examine your expectations.

That being said, it is not unreasonable to ask for a physical boundary such as no sex with anyone else in your bed. He should go over to her place to shag. So what if she has a single bed? They can get an air mattress and do it on her floor. It's not your job to find that solution for him.

 

[london]

In theory, I don't think the "Nobody in our bed" rule is unreasonable. However, not many people can afford a home that allows a "date" room, thus a limitation on people staying over is immediately put into place.

 

[9minutes]

If you don't want to see them being cosy, why go to her house? You think you should be able to go there and them just act like buddies? Let him go and see her whilst you enjoy your own life.

I am all for compromise and respecting each other's feelings, but what are you doing to compromise? What are you doing to embrace his other relationships, instead of merely tolerating them?

I guess part of this is due to my confusion about her role in his life. Mina has a primary partner, as well, whom she has been in a relationship with for a number of years. I have spent some one-on-one time with Mina, to try to get to know her better, which I consider to be one of the ways that I'm embracing Jesse's other relationships.

When I asked her what she was looking for in her relationship with Jesse, she said she didn't want to be anyone else's girlfriend; she just considers Jesse a friend whom she's attracted to.

I talked to Jesse, as well. He said that he didn't want to date her, but just maintain a friendship with her that included sex. So when he invited me to her house to watch TV, I wasn't expecting it to feel like I was tagging along on a date they were having. The three of us have hung out before and they have indeed just acted like "buddies," which is what they both told me they are, which is why seeing them be that affectionate with each other threw me off. I kind of feel like I'm being told one thing about the status of their relationship, and witnessing another.

I hope to god that since you have all these hang-ups about the affection they are allowed to display, you stay true to your own boundaries and would never expect him to be affectionate to you in front of her. He may be your boyfriend, but polyamory means that he may be other people's boyfriend too.

The thing about this is, Jesse is usually pretty private with affection. He's never been one to be very affectionate with me in front of other people. I've never had a problem with this, as I feel most comfortable being affectionate with him in private, as well. I don't think he's ever held me in front of someone else the way he was holding her in front of me. I think that's why it hurt to see them like that. It made me feel like there was something wrong with me, since he was comfortable with (and even insisted upon) displaying affection with her in front of me, but has never done the same vice versa.

Anyway, thanks for the comments so far, everyone. It's helping to put things in context for me.

 

[Magdlyn]

It sucks to feel like the third wheel.

Have you two always had an open relationship? If so, what boundaries or rules did you have prior to this?

It must be jarring to see Jesse exploring his bi-curiosity. Maybe he feels more cuddly with Mina because she's a woman? More affectionate overall? If there were previous lovers, maybe they were more sex-based relationships, and now his heart is opening to a full-on emotional relationship with Mina.

I do think he's being a bit harsh while you attempt to adjust to this deal. You're reeling, and he's all, "Get over yourself, dude. Ima do what I want!"

 

[graviton]

I agree with Magdlyn. Perhaps his public displays of affection to her feel more liberating because she's a woman. I don't pretend to know what it's like to be gay or bisexual, but I imagine showing affection to members of the same sex in public is hard, as it's still taboo and frowned upon by large segments of the population. Hell, even showing PDAs to the opposite sex makes people uncomfortable. So maybe he feels more "normal" and accepted when he's with her.

 

[Marcus]

The three of us have hung out before and they have indeed just acted like "buddies," which is what they both told me they are, which is why seeing them be that affectionate with each other threw me off. I kind of feel like I'm being told one thing about the status of their relationship, and witnessing another.

That might well have been their intention, but sex and closeness can encourage intimacy and there isn't much anyone can do to control it. They might be discovering that what they want is to be fuck buddies who are very affectionate with each other.

I encourage you to re-read what NYCindie said to you about owning your jealousy. Your relationships will improve across the board the better you get at taking full ownership of your feelings. Your concern about his being "on your side" when it comes to your emotional issues is an indication that you have some work left to be done.

 

[Inyourendo]

in theory, i don't think the "Nobody in our bed" rule is unreasonable. However, not many people can afford a home that allows a "date" room, thus a limitation on people staying over is immediately put into place.

Yes, but it sounds like she has her own place, her own couch, her own floor, her own bed, plenty of places they can have sex. This guy sounds very disrespectful and like he doesn't give a shit about the OP's feeling.

If I were the OP I would stay away from them. There is no reason you need to be involved in their dates. He can go to her place alone, or if he wants her to come over, you can just go hang out and read in the bedroom if you don't trust he will respect your "No sex with others in your bed" idea.

 

[london]

She has a single bed. His partner may prefer dating in his own home. Just because someone doesn't like something, it doesn't mean their dislike automatically supersedes someone else's desire to do/have that thing. A compromise has to be made. The partner suggested a separate bed as a compromise; the OP shot that down, too. This isn't about preference; it is about insecurity. One person's insecurity shouldn't dictate the nature of other people's relationships.

 

[Inyourendo]

I don't see where she shot down that idea. She said he snidely suggested it. Still, I don't understand what is wrong with having sex on a single bed. I know lots of couples who have this rule.

 

[Inyourendo]

There really isn't any compromise here. She doesn't want him bringing other partners onto their bed, and he does. This is pretty much a win-lose situation. I think the OP should buy a mattress that could be thrown on the floor when he wants to have sex with other people at their home. It won't always be the case that he can go somewhere else.

N sometimes has women come over here when, for various reasons, they can't host.

 

[CattivaGattina]

Before Woodsmith and I lived together, we'd have to have sex on his twin bed because I lived with my parents. (I have a queen.) It's more than easy to do.

The only person who shot down the idea of a second bed was the OP's boyfriend.

 

[BrigidsDaughter]

There really isn't any compromise here. She doesn't want him bringing other partners on their bed and he does. This is pretty much a win-lose situation. I think the OP should buy a mattress that could be thrown on the floor when he wants to have sex with other people at their home. It won't always be the case that he can go somewhere else.

The OP is a he. He and his partner were a gay couple before his partner decided to explore a FWB relationship with a female.

It is their home, not just his partner's home, and if he doesn't feel comfortable at this early stage with his now bisexual boyfriend having sex with women in his bed, I think he has a right to ask for them to do that.

For years, Wendigo and I had sex on the couch or floor, not in Runic Wolf's and my bed. This was mostly due to having a child's room next door to the bedroom, but we didn't mind, as Wendigo's bedroom was also his wife's work-from-home office.

 

[Magdlyn]

She doesn't want him bringing other partners on their bed and he does.

Note: the OP is a gay male, not a "she."

Yeah, I'm plus size, 5'7", and my male partner is 6'2," and we mess around on the living room couch regularly. I think a request for no sex in the OP's bed is reasonable, for now anyway, as all this is brand new. Maybe it could be readdressed in a few months, if all else is going more smoothly.

 

[Inyourendo]

Note: the OP is a gay male, not a "she."

Yeah, I'm plus size, 5'7", and my male partner is 6'2," and we mess around on the living room couch regularly. I think a request for no sex in the OP's bed is reasonable, for now anyway, as all this is brand new. Maybe it could be readdressed in a few months, if all else is going more smoothly.

Whoops. I totally read the OP wrong. Thank you for stating that in a non-rude way.

 

[9minutes]

Update: Jesse and Mina had sex in our room on an air mattress on the floor while I was at work last night. I still felt bad about it. I got home in the middle of the night to find Jesse in the room sleeping. Mina had left. The air mattress was blown up and there was a used condom on the floor next to it. I realized what had happened and flipped out a little bit, as he had told me they were going to her house that night, so I wasn't expecting the change in plans. My initial reaction was a negative one, but then I realized that I should appreciate the fact that he was considerate enough to blow the air mattress up.

I guess this confirms to me what some of you have said (that I needed to hear), that my apprehension and jealousy is more brought on by insecurity rather than the actual physical location they do it. I think the air mattress on the floor is a good compromise; while it still bothers me to have someone in our room, I can deal with that more easily than the thought of him with someone in our actual bed.

I've been trying to think about exactly what it is about him having sex with others that makes me so anxious and confront it head on, but haven't had much luck yet. Guess I've got a lot of work to do.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, all.

 

[Marcus]

The air mattress was blown up and there was a used condom on the floor next to it. I realized what had happened and flipped out a little bit, as he had told me they were going to her house that night, so I wasn't expecting the change in plans. My initial reaction was a negative one, but then I realized that I should appreciate the fact that he was considerate enough to blow the air mattress up.

It is a step in the right direction.

As far as the used condom on the floor, that's just rudeness in my world. I don't care what someone does. But clean up after yourself. That would irritate me, just because it's gross, and I don't want to be directly exposed to other people's cum and juices in a plastic bag (condom) on my floor. Man... Have some courtesy, people!!

I've been trying to think about exactly what it is about him having sex with others that makes me so anxious and confront it head on, but haven't had much luck yet. Guess I've got a lot of work to do.

I did cognitive therapy with a head shrink at one point. He had me do the "downward arrow" exercise (if I am remembering correctly). It's an exercise designed to weed through the surface worries to get to the core issue. It generally ends up pointing to fear of being alone, fear of being worthless... that kind of stuff. It was super helpful for me in figuring out what is actually bothering me, and it never had anything to do with what the people around me were doing. That shit is all internal.

Personally, I think that your being aware that these feelings are internally motivated is a huge step. Most people never get that far.

 

[GalaGirl]

I don’t really know if I’m asking a question, I’m more just frustrated and needed to vent. I don’t really know how to go about discussing these things with him in a more productive way.

I am sorry you are frustrated. I hope venting helps alleviate some of that.

My suggestion is to "report the weather," and keep it on behavior done/not done when he tries to move the focus away from behaviors to personality or character attacks.

If he tries to change the channel to be about how horrible you are rather than actions done/not done, change it back by "playing the broken record." "Did you do X? Yes/no. Did you not do Y? Yes/no."

Don't "hamster-wheel," though. If he's not willing to have constructive conversation and he takes it to destructive conversation, check out.

"You do not seem to be willing to have a constructive conversation about actions do do/not do. I am no longer willing to participate. You could check in when you are ready to try again ____, give a date you can deal with this later on the calendar_____." Don't let him "chase" you to continue to bully you.

I don't know how productive the conversation will be in the end if he's not willing to hear you and come to a compromise/resolution, but at least you are keeping the focus in the right spot from your end of it, and not adding to the problem.

That's another thing. You could do "traffic cop" and help direct the conversation toward constructive. "When you ____ are you adding to the problem, or taking away from the problem?"

When we talk about things that I’m comfortable with, my jealousy seems like more of an inconvenience to him than something he wants to help me through.

Ask if he's willing to provide you with support as you work out jealousy and do this by reading articles, and doing the things on page 5/6.

I've told him I’m uncomfortable with the idea of him having sex with someone else in our bed, because I need to feel that there’s a private space that’s just for us.

Reasonable limit/reason/boundary. As co-owner of the bed/room, you have input on that.

I felt like even though he stated that he respected what I was comfortable with and what I wasn’t, it was just something he said to try to convince me to be more comfortable with what was convenient for him.

That whole bed thing-- you called that one correctly.​

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He says he respects your limit, but then snidely calls you "rigid," trying to make it be about your character/personality, rather than his failure to accept a limit and deal with his disappointment about it, implying you are being "mean" to him for not giving him his way/smoothing things for him.​

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"Report the weather" and keep it on actions done/not done by each player.​

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"Thank you for saying that you respect that I want to keep our bed just for us. Thank you for checking in to renegotiate boundaries. That feels respectful.​

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When you keep pushing, making snide remarks, attacking my personality/character... that is not respectful toward me. (<--- Behavior done, not done.)​

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I would prefer you were consistently respectful toward me. Are you willing to be consistently respectful toward me? (<--- What you would like)​

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I am willing to help you learn to deal with disappointment. I am not willing for you to bully me so you don't have to experience disappointment.​

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I have no other solution suggestion beyond talking to Mina and buying a bigger bed for her place. I am not willing to brainstorm more than that.​

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Report the weather. Actions he does/could do. Ask for his willingness to do. Actions you do/could be willing to do.

The other night we were both going to hang out at M’s house to watch TV. He asked me if I was comfortable with him kissing her in front of me, or holding her hand in front of me. I told him that I didn’t think I would be, and he said that he was going to try it anyway as a way of testing to see if it made me uncomfortable.

He's fresh. You see that, right?

You already SAID it would make you uncomfortable. He does not need to be testing you. He doesn't respect your limits. Some people see limits as "challenges" to break down so they can "win." Is he that type?

On your end, could be more assertive in your speech. "No. I am just not comfortable with that," rather than "I don't think I would be comfortable." To people who love to push boundaries that's like an invitation to push.

After we left, I told him that it went too far for my comfort, but that it might have actually been a good thing that it went too far, because it made me more sure of my boundaries. He asked me what those boundaries were, and I said that I would be ok with some affection, but that the way they were full-on spooning made me feel like I was a third wheel. His response was just: “Well, if it were me, I wouldn’t mind feeling like a third wheel for an hour or two per week” and accused me of being selfish and only thinking of how things affect me.

So basically he expects that when he's willing to do something, you automatically have to be willing to do it too? Ask him if he expects this of you.

Remind him --

Selfish -- thinking only of my needs at the expense of others.
Selfless -- thinking only of other people needs at my own expense.
Self-full -- thinking of my needs and others needs in a balanced way.

He sounds selfish. It seems like he wants you to be selfless for his benefit. Some selfish people call you selfish when they don't get their way. They want you to jump up to do the thing they want to "prove" how unselfish you are. Then they get their way "from the back door."

Decline to participate in that game.

I’m starting to feel like I don’t even want to talk about what I’m comfortable with or not, because it’s just met with hostility and resentment. Am I way off base here?

I don't blame you for feeling that way. That is what is happening. When he doesn't get his jollies (whatever they happen to be) he acts out at you. Then you feel drained. But that doesn't mean you stop voicing your concerns. When he tantrums, report the weather. Keep the focus where it needs to be. Maybe reading about emotional vampires could help you find other management strategies here. Or conflict resolution.

I’m not even trying to tell him what he can and can’t do with Mina when I’m not around—these issues that have come up recently are related to things that directly affect me (i.e., our bed, and how comfortable I am with him being affectionate with her when I’m around.)

Point all that out. You are not telling him what he can/cannot do with Mina on their own time. But in the places where it affects you, you will state your reasonable boundaries, and you expect them to be honored.

My initial reaction was a negative one, but then I realized that I should appreciate the fact that he was considerate enough to blow the air mattress up.

You seem to be rationalizing poor behavior. Him meeting your agreement to not use the bed, but leaving air mattress and used condom on floor is passive aggressive behavior. He met your boundary, so you can't complain he didn't meet it. But he found a way to "stick it to ya" anyway.

How does this behavior inspire feelings of "I trust him" or "I feel respected" in you?

If he owns an air mattress already and they dislike sex on a single bed, why not take this mattress to her flat? Then everyone's desires are met -- they get to have sex not on the single bed, and you get the (him + me) bed left alone, as you requested.

Ask him if he is willing to be in healthy concurrent relationships with both of you, and expects all players to respect each other's boundaries or not, because if he doesn't plan on practicing healthy polyamory, it's better you know it up front. You are well within your rights to decline to participate because you are not willing to live in Crazy Town.

You are responsible for your own health and overall well-being.

Galagirl