First challenge and I am not dealing

[Anyanka]

My guy (I'll call him Kai) and I are in a LDR. He is planning to move across the country to be with me, but that will happen a couple, if not several months, away. (I should start a thread on this as it's... well... complicated.)

Kai has always been open to his polyamorous inclinations, and while I have always been mono, I am actually okay with the ideas and premises of poly. And I want him to be happy and free. I really do.

When we met, he was in a very controlling relationship with a mono woman, which he ended. For three years, he tried to live as something he was not, and this, above all else, makes me desire for him his freedom.

We have begun talking about having others in the bedroom. I appreciate that this is not polyamory, and I am not collapsing it into a definition of poly. I am unsure if he wants to expand our relationship to include other relationships of his own. We haven't gotten that far in our discussions, and as we have only been together 9 months, the lust aspect between him and me is still very strong, so talks/fantasies have involved me and him with an abstract 'other.'

Last week, he told me that he had been in contact with a woman who was keen to see a couple. We were talking via Skype. I messaged him that as I was not over there, perhaps he should see her on his own.

***moment of truthfulness***

I was really, really hoping that he would say something along the lines of not wanting to meet without me, but he didn't. And I reacted by withdrawing a bit, which he recognised. It got messy, but not overtly so. This is new territory for us both. I knew that my reaction was my own and I needed to deal with it, and I did. Well, I thought I did. My problem wasn't jealousy, per se. I found myself compounded with feelings of being threatened, absolutely. But the main issue was a concern that he seemed to be looking to establish himself even further where he is, thereby delaying his move here.

We have been in a lot of contact over this weekend-- hours and hours on Skype, talking about life, love and the universe, his search for new digs (he is staying with his parents after splitting with his ex), etc. It has been a lovely weekend.

However, this woman that he has been in contact with came up again.

He told me that he had sent her some erotica that he wrote for her. This is his thing. He likes to write erotica and get to know people in that way. He said that she had called him last week for phone sex, but that she had since disappeared. His reason for telling me was to express exasperation at her 'disappearance.'

I am currently a crazy mix of emotions, not the least of which is betrayal.

I realise that this was just some writing and some phone sex, but we are in a LDR, so really, when we aren't together in the flesh, that is all he and I have, as well.

I don't know if I have any right to be feeling the way I do. I can barely isolate what exactly is wrong. And on top of that, I feel 'wrong' for feeling anything, like I am being ridiculous.

I just keep thinking that the days when I didn't hear from him and assumed that he was busy/tired, he was probably in contact with this woman, which makes me feel stupid.

I really, really need some perspective on the politics here. I have a handle on the 'It was just some emails, etc.' It's not about that. I was just stunned that he was and possibly would still be in sexual contact with her on his own.

I don't know how to deal with this, or whether to just let it go. Like last time, I just got very quiet and left soon after. I didn't and don't know how to approach or deal, so I bury.

I hope this doesn't come across as ridiculous.

 

[sparklepop]

Hi, Anyanka. No feeling is ridiculous. It is what you feel, and you are trying to work through it.

My guy and I are in a LDR. He is planning to move across the country to be with me but this is a couple, if not several months, away.

How long have you been together? You don't class each other as partners? What is the commitment level like? Do you operate as a couple, or individuals, or is this part of the muddiness?

I was really, really hoping that he would say something along the lines of not wanting to meet without me, but he didn't, and I reacted by withdrawing a bit, which he recognised. It got messy, but not overtly so. This is new territory for us both.

Good for you for recognizing your moment of truth. It actually sounds to me like there was an (unwritten?) expectation that 'extra person' would be in bed with the two of you. You are realizing that expectation now, with your reaction to him meeting her. This is bound to make you feel betrayed, like he agreed to something, but is not sticking to that agreement. In reality, I'm guessing there was no actual agreement, just ideas shared.

He seemed to be looking to establish himself even further where he is, thereby delaying his move here.

So, what was it that made you think this? Have you been having that general feeling and you need to explore that further? Did he imply that he wants to stay where he is? Or are you assuming that if he starts casually dating or getting to know someone where he currently lives, he'd want to root there?

He told me that he had sent her some erotica that he wrote for her. This is his thing... She had called him last week for phone sex, but that she had since disappeared. His reason for telling me was to express exasperation at the 'disappearance.'

Okay, so what you have here are two cloudy areas.

Do you want to know about these things? Is this over-sharing?

When do you want to know about them? Before they happen. i.e., permission style? After they happen, i.e., information style? Randomly dropped into conversation? Dealt with more carefully, at a better time for you?

The other is the whole idea of him dating someone alone in the first place.

I am currently a crazy mix of emotions, not the least of which is betrayal.

I realise that this was just some writing and some phone sex, but we are in a LDR, so when we aren't together in the flesh, that is all he and I have, as well.

You feel betrayal, because you feel that he is doing with her what you two do together. You are even potentially thinking that him doing that with her took away a moment where he could have sent you erotica and had phone sex.

I understand this. My GF and I are in an LDR (different countries!), and I struggled with her last partner, who lived in a different state to her for 6 months. She'd be sexual with him via emails and online, but completely non-sexual with me during this period. However, it sounds like you and your guy are still in a good sexual place. So perhaps the issue here is time/attention sharing. Perhaps it's expectation. Perhaps it's something else.

I don't know if I have any right to be feeling the way I do. I can barely isolate what exactly is wrong. And on top of that, I feel 'wrong' for feeling anything, like I am being ridiculous.

There is no right or wrong. You feel what you feel. If you got on the phone to him and called him a selfish bastard and a liar and a cheater, that would be a touch unproductive. But feeling something isn't wrong. Now you need to process it, analyse it, then communicate it to him, to work out a solution.

Possible things that could be wrong, all of which might cause valid feelings to deal with:
- You are struggling with sharing his attention. There may very well be times that he was emailing her, or thinking of her, instead of you.
- You are struggling with hearing the information.
- You are struggling with the way it was shared.
- You are struggling with a lack of boundaries and guidelines.
- You feel like an audience, rather than a participant in his decisions with her.
- You don't trust that he does really want to move to your area.
- You don't trust that he wants threesomes, but instead, wants genuine poly.

I really need some perspective on the politics here. I have a handle on the 'it was just some emails, etc.' It's not about that. I was just stunned that he was and possibly would still be in sexual contact with her on his own.

You have to remember that you gave him your blessing, so he thinks you are ok with it. We can all be guilty of agreeing to something for our lover, whilst seething inside. Then we end up blaming them for betraying us. It's a fucked-up system that we can all fall into.

What would be better is to have a new agreement. Either, you don't date separately and this is the agreement for the next 6 months. Or, you can date separately, but you require XYZ things around that (i.e., guidelines). Or, you can date separately, but you have to agree to be honest straight away when you're uncomfortable, and he has to agree to hear you out in that moment. Basically, making an agreement and pretending you're happy with that agreement isn't fair, to you, or to him.

I don't know how to deal with this, or whether to just let it go. Like last time, I just got very quiet and left soon after. I didn't and don't know how to approach or deal, so I bury.

I don't believe in burying feelings. I genuinely believe they come around to bite us in the ass. I do believe in experiencing the feeling, analyzing it, coming up with the deeper reasons for feeling that way, then communicating it so that solutions can be found.

Honestly, at this point, I would suggest you tell him that you would like to talk about some things, and ask him when a good time for him would be. Try to create the most productive environment to talk in.

Avoid blame talk and focus on what you are feeling, what you could have done differently, what you are wondering. Have your worries on your mind and voice them.

For example, "I'd really like to understand. You haven't done anything wrong. I'm worried that perhaps you don't plan to move here. and I'd like you to be honest with me about where you feel you are at with that. I'm also worried that I'm not emotionally ready for true polyamory; but that I've put you in an unfair position by saying that it was ok. I've realized that I'm struggling with you and this other woman, and I'm trying to work out what I can do about those struggles. Would you be willing to talk about how you feel and perhaps come up with solutions together?"

Finally, you know, reading about polyamory is a wonderful thing. I would definitely suggest you keep doing that. But so often, we forget to read about ourselves. Conflict resolution, anger management, assertiveness... all kinds of skills that are necessary in relationships of any kind.

I found a website yesterday that I thought was amazing. The woman who runs it is a psychologist, largely talking about letting go of negative feelings. The website was designed for parents to model good behavior to their children. But their are certain sections specifically for adults, that I think are amazing useful when dealing with issues. It talks about things that "keep you angry" - but really, anger is being used as an umbrella term for feelings of upset, betrayal, resentment, etc. It is here, if you want to read it:

http://www.angriesout.com/grown14.htm

 

[bookbug]

I am confused. Even though you recognize that he is poly, you didn't think he was ever going to act on it? Or did you have an agreement whereby you two would only act on poly together? (Of course if that was the case, you gave him permission to do otherwise.)

While yes, many have to work through insecurities and jealousy, you say that you are feeling betrayed. A very strong word. What is it that he has done that makes you feel he betrayed you?

As for your concern that if he becomes involved with someone there, it may change his mind about the move, just ask him if he sees that as a possibility.

 

[bookbug]

On the idea of trust and betrayal, a member of this forum wrote the following (and if the author reads this, please take credit, because I unfortunately saved only the concept, not the name of the poster who penned it):

What is a trust issue? "I thought you were X, I wanted to believe you were X, I would not want or accept you to be anything other than X, and now I see you're not. You broke my trust!"

WTF, people? You've set yourself up to have trust issues, because from day one you decided what you wanted the other person to be. It wasn't about accepting who they were. You decided who they were to be, and finding out they were not that person, you suddenly can't trust them?

The truth never hurts, it's the realization of the lies that hurt. Those people that have trust issues, that's total BS. There's no trust issue; there's a major acceptance issue.

You're projecting your wishes onto the other person, and when they reach a point where they have to be themselves, you blame them because you were not willing to accept them for who they are.

 

[YouAreHere]

To be fair, if this is someone's first experience in polyamory, they may well not realize what their expectations are, or what the reality will be. It's a completely different animal from what they may be used to. I know I went through my own growing pains in my relationship as well.

Ignorance of how something works, and trying to muddle your way through it is hard as hell, for everyone involved (been there, done that), but it's certainly not malicious. The fact that the OP is here talking and asking questions is a good sign.

 

[bookbug]

To be fair, if this is someone's first experience in polyamory, they may well not realize what their expectations are, or what the reality will be. It's a completely different animal from what they may be used to. I know I went through my own growing pains in my relationship as well.

Ignorance of how something works, and trying to muddle your way through it is hard as hell, for everyone involved (been there, done that), but it's certainly not malicious. The fact that the OP is here talking and asking questions is a good sign.

Totally agreed! It is also very common for people to not really understand why they feel as they do when they are upset. When I am the one who is muddled, I appreciate people asking me pointed questions, as it helps me get to the bottom of the issue.

 

[YouAreHere]

When I am the one who is muddled, I appreciate people asking me pointed questions, as it helps me get to the bottom of the issue.

As do I. Unfortunately, text without facial expressions makes it tough to figure out tone, so I probably read your post a bit harsher than it was meant, and internalized it a bit. D'oh.

I blame the mold in my cellar slowly taking over my brain.

(And now, I shall have cordyceps nightmares... thanks, self. Thanks a lot.)

 

[bookbug]

As do I. Unfortunately, text without facial expressions makes it tough to figure out tone, so I probably read your post a bit harsher than it was meant, and internalized it a bit. D'oh.

I blame the mold in my cellar slowly taking over my brain.

(And now, I shall have cordyceps nightmares... thanks, self. Thanks a lot.)

LOL. Yeah, I understand how lack of seeing facial expressions is a detriment. Somehow smileys didn't seem appropriate to the conversation. I appreciate you drawing attention to the possibility that what I said could be interpreted as harsh, so it gave me a chance to explain my intent.

 

[Anyanka]

Thanks to everyone for the response, much appreciated (especially the first poster who took so much time/effort).

I really want to answer/respond to all individually, and I will, but I have broken things off with Kai, and so I'm a bit messy right now.

Just to clarify the betrayal/trust:

We had discussed and agree to have other people in 'our' bedroom, but we had not yet discussed having separate relationships. As we are quite new, about 9 months, this isn't a need/want that is being suppressed, it is just something that isn't a need/want yet. But we had no poly agreement in place, none.

My sense of betrayal is because he told me he was in contact with a woman who was looking for a couple. Fine. That bothered me only in that she is based in his current city, and it indicated to me that he was still looking at that city as 'home.' To me, we should have been looking for somebody here. Yes, I was slightly (but only slightly) jealous about the contact, but I trusted him to be open about this. I guess my expectations were a bit fuzzy. But as she was looking for a couple, and there was talk about me visiting in a few weeks, I assumed that they were talking logistics of him, me and her possibly meeting.

Fast forward a couple of weeks, and far from it being something about three people, two people (he and she) are actually writing intimate, erotic letters and having phone sex. This was not discussed. In fact, I had no idea that they were still in touch, let alone that things had gotten to an intimate nature. And lastly, I am left completely confused as to why a woman who was looking for a couple was engaged with the male solo. I also feel that I have found myself in an almost poly scenario without talking about it or agreeing as to what that meant, etc. It is only writing and phone sex, but this is intimacy, and therefore, I think it comes under the same umbrella, and I see it as a breach of my trust that he would never do anything to undermine or hurt me, because I do feel undermined and hurt by the way that this all went down.

I have spent 24 hours thinking about my reaction, whether or not I was being fair, if it was just a knee-jerk response, etc., and I'm afraid that I still felt/feel the same way-- my trust has taken a hit, and given that this is a distance thing, there is nothing without 100% trust.

I also do think that perhaps he and I are on different pages regarding things. He has just come out of a 3-year relationship with a very, VERY mono woman who made him feel guilty for even having poly thoughts. So, I am also inclined to think that it may be a good idea for him to be single for a while (sans me, I mean) and explore himself a bit.

I am not dealing well with the distance. I am not dealing now with this breach of trust. And I do see it that way, and I don't see how that can be rectified.

The irony of all of this is that this weekend, we spent 8-10 hours a day on video chat, just lying in our respective beds talking about life, love and the universe. We are best friends. I just want him to be happy. I really do. But I also want me to be happy, and I'm not.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[WhatHappened]

How do you get to know people by writing erotic stories?

As to your feelings, you may feel anything you like, and it sounds to me like he wasn't clear that he would be, and was, still in contact with her as a thing between the two of them, rather than as a joint... friend?... toy?... as you were led to believe. That becomes a violation of trust. That's a problem. If there are continued violations of trust, you eventually won't have a very good relationship.

 

[Anyanka]

How do you get to know people by writing erotic stories?

As to your feelings, you may feel anything you like, and it sounds to me like he wasn't clear that he would be, and was, still in contact with her as a thing between the two of them, rather than as a joint... friend?... toy?... as you were led to believe. That becomes a violation of trust. That's a problem. If there are continued violations of trust, you eventually won't have a very good relationship.

The erotic stories are written and sent in between regular emails, etc.

He wasn't at clear, not at all. So yes, I feel it was a violation, as well. If he were here, we could possibly work through that. But as he isn't, I just don't think I have it in me to hand him back my trust. It has been such a long road for us, ending his existing relationship, negotiating distance, discussing his want to have other people in the bedroom.

Every single issue, from already being in a relationship that he was trying to end, to moving here on his very slow timetable, to having his sexual needs addressed and met, being wary of getting into a new 'relationship,' and his deal with not understanding 'love,' every single one has been his issue, and I have stood by him, and I have been patient, and I have said okay.

But I think this is my line in the sand. As much as I love him, and as much as I love what we have (and he is a loving, warm and fun guy), without the trust, the distance becomes a monster, rather than a temporary goblin.

 

[Natja]

It is good you have a limit and understand it and have decided that this relationship is not for you.

As much as I (and perhaps other people) feel a bit uncomfortable with your couple-unit dating mindset, I think it's important to recognise that this relationship was incompatible on that fundamental level, and not to dwell on a person not having the same ideals (with regards to this single thing) as some of us do.

 

[Anyanka]

It is good you have a limit and understand it and have decided that this relationship is not for you.

As much as I feel a bit uncomfortable with your couple-unit dating mindset, I think it's important to recognise that this relationship was incompatible on that fundamental level and not to dwell on a person not having the same ideals (with regards to this single thing) as some of us do.

Thanks for the response.

It is probably useful for me to hear that others are uncomfortable with my mindset, in that it allows me to look critically and understand exactly where my limits are.

The thing is I don't really see myself as being in an either/or mindset. I am open for talking, negotiation and discussion. But trust and respect are fundamental.

He has been trying to contact me on Skype but right now, I am not ready to talk, mainly because I do not know what I would say.

I cannot say how much I appreciate the responses here. They allow me to reflect and solidify my own reactions, and to consider whether I am indeed projecting, or whether something has crossed a line that I consider fundamental.

 

[bookbug]

I am sorry it went down the way it did, but I can see where it would be very difficult to navigate different relationship styles, much less a broken trust issue long distance.

We often speak of people being mono or poly, but that said, the truth is the tendencies probably lie along a spectrum. For example, mono couples often will have sexual threesomes. Not exactly full-blown polyamory, but hardly steadfast monoamory either. So I agree, while the concept of full-blown poly is foreign to you, you do seem remarkably open to the concept.

I hope you are doing all right.

 

[WhatHappened]

I agree, you're wise to recognize your limits. You're wise to see the pattern here over nine months... always dealing with what he wants, his issues, his desire to change and tweak what you originally agreed to, him doing things behind your back.

You're only nine months in. I don't remember where I read it, but a comment in the last couple months from someone saying when they broke up with a boyfriend, it felt like the end of the world. A year later, it hurt. Five years later, it was okay. And ten years later, she was incredibly grateful to have made that decision.

It may be hard emotionally to contemplate this, but it sounds like you're seeing things clearly. And these things will almost undoubtedly continue. Best to see it now. Good luck.

 

[GalaGirl]

While I'm sorry you now have to deal with "break-up ugh," I am glad to hear you decided to end a relationship that wasn't feeding you, rather than dragging it out. It wasn't sounding like what you were ultimately seeking. It sounded like the return on your investment wasn't up to snuff for you.

You have every right to feel whatever it is you feel. Feelings come and go. They don't have to make sense to you at the time. Like the sense of hearing, seeing, touch, etc., the sense of emotions helps give you feedback about the world around you and lets you know when your actions/thoughts are in alignment, helps you decide things, and more. Some feelings are yummy to feel, some are yucky to feel -- all of them give you some data about the situation you are in.

So you decided something. Hopefully in time you will start to feel better and come to find that this decision served you well.

The thing is, I don't really see myself as being in an either/or mindset. I am open for talking, negotiation and discussion, but trust and respect are fundamental.

Yep.

He has been trying to contact me on Skype, but I am not ready to talk, mainly because I do not know what I would say.

Say nothing. You don't have to be willing to engage in conversation with him right now. Put your own oxygen mask on first and do your own self care post break-up.

GL!
Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

I am not sure if you have even met your guy in person. Have you?

 

[Anyanka]

I am not sure if you have even met your guy in person. Have you?

Yes, we have met. I just got back from spending a month with him (well, 3.5 weeks). Well, I got back about 5 weeks ago.

 

[Anyanka]

I am sorry it went down the way it did, but I can see where it would be very difficult to navigate different relationship styles, much less a broken-trust issue long distance.

We often speak of people being mono or poly, but that said, the truth is the tendencies probably lie along a spectrum. For example, mono couples often will have sexual threesomes. Not exactly full-blown polyamory, but hardly steadfast monoamory either. So I agree, while the concept of full-blown poly is foreign to you, you do seem remarkably open to the concept.

I hope you are doing all right.

Thanks. I am doing okay at the moment, but I think that is just because it doesn't seem quite real as yet...

I agree that a spectrum is a more useful way of looking at things, for me, anyhow.

I was open to the idea of exploring that spectrum with him, but I guess it is not meant to be.

 

[Anyanka]

I agree, you're wise to recognize your limits. You're wise to see the pattern here over nine months... always dealing with what he wants, his issues, his desire to change and tweak what you originally agreed to, him doing things behind your back.

You're only nine months in. I don't remember where I read it, but a comment in the last couple months from someone saying when they broke up with a boyfriend, it felt like the end of the world. A year later, it hurt. Five years later, it was okay. And ten years later, she was incredibly grateful to have made that decision.

It may be hard emotionally to contemplate this, but it sounds like you're seeing things clearly. And these things will almost undoubtedly continue. Best to see it now. Good luck.

I hadn't thought about it as recognising patterns. LOL I don't think I am that plugged-in, actually.

It's just a matter of knowing that the distance thing was/is a huge problem for me. Every day was a struggle, and he was unable to give me a definite time/date. Add a breach of trust to this already volatile issue (for me) and I just knew I would be a basket case, not good for him, not good for me.

I am not issue-free, but I am almost issue-free. In fact, I found that his ideas on what relationships 'are' and 'aren't' were more closed than mine. I have problems accepting that anyone is either mono or poly, always and for all time. The spectrum that bookbug talked about makes far more sense to me. To me (and I am not claiming this to be 'the truth', but rather, my experience/take on things), each relationship should be taken on its own merits and negotiated along the way. Entering something saying "I will be poly" seems as limiting as saying "I will be mono." **

(NB: I am talking in generalities here. My guy has never said these things/expressed these ideas per se. He HAS said that he will/wants to be able to have sex with other women, and I indicated that I was fine with that. But, as stated, we have only discussed and agreed about this as being something we do together, so far, anyway.)

**Said with no offence meant to anybody. I just struggle with having all of these predefined ideas before something has even had a chance to breathe and unfold.


**** Obviously where there are already existing relationships in place that is an entirely different animal

******* please don't hate me