Negotiating Openness...

K

KC43

New member
I had an argument with Hubby this morning that has me scratching my head and needing some help figuring out how to address it.

Last week when I visited Guy, he and I talked about being more open about our relationship. Not so much going around telling everyone, but just not hiding it. Feeling like we could mention our roles in each other's lives without worrying about it.

Hubby knew about the conversation and said he had no problem with it. But since then he's vetoed a blog post I intended to write about the subject--even though the post would have gone under the pen name I use for my romance writing, not my real name--and he's vetoed a couple of Facebook posts I've done that haven't even said straight out that I have another man in my life, only hinted at it. Again, that Facebook is under my pen name, which is one that our family members know but don't follow.

Last week when hubby and I talked, he said I shouldn't feel like I have to hide the situation, but since then HE'S been the one telling me to hide it. He says he's okay with his family finding out, but then says he doesn't want them to know. He claims he doesn't want anyone in our personal lives to know about it because they might tell my kids' father (my ex)--even though no one currently in our lives knows my ex's name, let alone how to get in touch with him.

I tried to get through to him this morning that I'm not asking to go public with this. There's a difference between broadcasting something and just not keeping it a secret. He told me he wants to keep it secret because "society would make repercussions", and then told me to "stop harping on it."

I feel like even though he calls Guy "bro-hub" and reassures me constantly that he's happy with how things are, that Hubby is actually ashamed. Because of his reaction to the idea of ANYONE finding out, I feel like I'm doing something wrong and like he's lying about accepting the situation. And I also feel like he isn't respecting Guy's or my feelings and opinions on it; he's just looking at "I don't want anyone to know" and refusing to even listen to any other options.

People finding out would not impact our jobs; we both work for Hubby's father. It wouldn't impact our housing, or anything else in our lives as long as my kids' father doesn't find out. Hubby isn't able to tell me why he's so uncomfortable being even slightly open about this; he's just uncomfortable, and he acts as if that means he's the only one whose comfort matters. *I* am uncomfortable completely hiding Guy's role in my life, because to me it feels dishonest and it also feels like I'm leaving Guy out, which isn't fair to him. And while Guy went into this with his eyes wide open, he does wish I could be open about who he really is to me.

I don't expect Hubby to cave and say "Oh, fine, just tell everyone." What I want is to find some *compromise* between our comfort zones, as opposed to his current "I'm uncomfortable, end of story, your comfort doesn't matter."
 
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He might be anxious about how he is viewed for accepting this. Especially since he is monogamous. People might think cuckold or doormat and treat him like a victim and you like an abuser. Those are valid concerns. If people do react like that, it will change relationships.
 
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I agree with London. While it's not fair of your hubby to be vetoing you, I do understand (maybe, I'm not a mind reader) the concern. Whether or not you want it, when people find out, it's just about guaranteed that some people in your lives WILL treat/look at you differently. When Zulu told his friend group and father about having a girlfriend besides me there was absolutely a shift. People were much more cautious around me, no one made "future" jokes anymore. And considering I was struggling with him having another relationship it HURT.
 
Thanks for the input, London and OliverOwl. I think you're completely right about his fearing how people might view him for accepting the situation, though that's at odds with his constant statements that we're doing nothing wrong and he isn't ashamed or embarrassed about it.
 
Yep. My husband got crazy comments from people - about how sorry they were that I was doing this to him, how terrible I am, etc. He had to constantly be on the defensive, saying "I like this, my wife and I are happy. I'm not being forced into accepting this!" He was never asked - but I was - if he was a homosexual. He isn't, but apparently if he were people would understand this more clearly. Ugh.

So being out isn't easy for mono folks. My husband certainly feels like he has to defend my honor all the time and it makes him a bit sad. Now that almost every person knows, it has definitely lessened, so that has helped.
 
Yes, people can be cruel, especially if society dictates that a man isn't "man enough" if his wife needs another man. There are lots of issues like that to consider but it does sound like he really doesn't even want to discuss it with you at all. Seems like a sore subject for him.
 
His "flip-flopping" has got to be confusing, I'm sorry you have to go through that :C It sounds like you've got some really great relationships in your life!

Would it be possible to negotiate a sort of "first step"? Maybe something like, I understand where you are coming from, and it is OKAY that you are conflicted, and don't wish to push you any faster than you can handle but I do plan on posting this blog article that references Guy? Get his input in how that bit is worded etc . . .

I totally get that something like that may be more micromanagment than you would want, but the offer may at least get a bit of conversation going.
 
That's probably because he knows that the things people might say aren't true. It is very difficult when those other people don't know they are wrong though.
 
Cindie, yeah... and it's surprising to me that it's such a tough subject for him, given that he was the one who encouraged me to admit how I felt about Guy and has encouraged me all along to maintain the relationship. But that was when he didn't think anyone else would know, I guess...

Oliver, I've already done the blog post; I did a general one on polyamory instead of one admitting that I'm polyamorous. Though if things get to a better place, I could still "come out" on my blog if I chose. But the problem I'm having is how to negotiate a compromise with hubby that's fair to all three of us... if that's even possible.

London, very true.
 
I can see why Hubby is concerned.

My partner was actively and very openly poly for years of his life. He feels strongly that it is a good way to have relationships and has spoken at length on that subject for years.

When I started seeing him, people used to take me aside and warn me away from him. They'd tell me that he is not to be trusted. Other folk would take me aside and check that I wasn't being pressured into having a poly relationships when I might not want one.

I wasn't put under pressure by my partner and he has never cheated on anybody in his life regardless of relationship structure. Nevertheless, I had these conversations fairly regularly in the first year or so of our relationship.

IP
 
So it might seem like you are on the opposite sides and want exactly different things, and this has made you act like this is really true. It's hard to find compromises when you'r convinced that there is no common ground.

You guys sound like me when I'm having an internal conflict, so maybe you could use a method I use myself. First you, KC43, need to decide what's the absolute minimum of openness _you_ can live with. Is it enough if one person knows? Two? Five? Ten? Your husband needs to decide the absolute maximum, could he live with one person knowing? Two? Ten?

When you find a number that feels you both might be comfortable with, start thinking who it could be. A friend? A relative? One of both? As you go through people, think why you (both/all three) would need or want this person to know, and why not. Don't do this as suggestions, like "can I tell x?". Do it as neutrally as possible, just going through potential people: "What are the pros and cons to telling x". As you do this, you'll learn about the reasons why he's uncomfortable talking about it and he'll learn why it's important to you that people know. During the process you'll hopefully then find the compromise.
 
Infinite, thanks for the perspective :)

Copperhead, it isn't about *telling* people as much as it is about not *avoiding* telling people. In other words, I don't want to go up to people and say "Hey, guess what"... I just want the freedom to admit who Guy is in my life if someone asks.

I talked to Hubby a bit more about it last night. He said, "I don't want people to know because it's too much of a hassle to tell them to F off if they don't like it." Then he paused and said, "Wow, when I say it that way, it sounds really cowardly to tell you to hide it just so I don't have to deal with people."

He also asked me what Guy's take on it is, which I clarified with Guy this morning: Guy wants to be able to share that we're in a relationship, but like me, he doesn't necessarily want to broadcast it. He just wants the freedom to admit to it if the subject comes up.

Hubby and I tabled our discussion last night, and he promised he would come back to it either tonight or tomorrow.
 
Sounds like a tough position for both of you!

Does he see that his behavior is negating his words? If I were him I'd want to know that, so I could be honest with myself about whether I'm ready to be "out". Sounds like he said last night that he's not ready, even if he's not cool with the reason.

I know it's been said, but society sucks. Also, maybe he might be overreacting a little. Has he actually yet had to deal with the fallout of someone finding out? Maybe it won't be as bad as you guys think.

Baby steps, right? Good luck!:)
 
I don't think he has completely realized that he's contradicting himself a bit by first telling me I shouldn't have to hide and then being the one to tell me I SHOULD hide.

We were going to continue the discussion last night, but he had to work late and I was helping out a friend who'd gotten some bad news and needed support, so we weren't able to talk. Hubby and I are supposed to go out with friends tomorrow night, and he agreed that we should try to settle this situation before we go out so we can actually and completely enjoy ourselves.

He hasn't had to deal with anyone from his family finding out. On the "swinger site" where Hubby and I (and Guy and I) met, we've said we have an open marriage and got a lot of judgmental reactions for that, but the friends from that site who know about Guy and me have been positive and happy for all three of us. My mother and my 18-year-old daughter both also know about Guy and me and have been positive and encouraging about the situation. So out of the people who do know the whole story, there haven't been any negative responses at all.

Thanks :)
 
Generally if one is super confident about one's alternative choices that go against the mainstream, people who might seem critical at first back down quick. Bullies only go after the weak.

I've lived so many alternatives. I am pansexual, genderqueer, kinky, and while I was monogamous and married to a man, I homebirthed 2 of my 3 kids, breastfed them all for 2-4 1/2 years, I homeschooled all 3 entirely, I avoid MDs as much as possible and use alternative medicine. I am also somewhere in between an atheist and a pagan.

So, starting to live full time as polyamorous really wasnt much of a stretch. :p

You'd never know to look at me that I am so "weird!" I am just a tallish, somewhat plus-sized, silver haired 58 year old. I only have one small tattoo. I just look like a somewhat hip grandma person. I am a stealth weirdo.

Anyway, since I do lactation support for people in our bottlefeeding culture, I have lots of experience with women who get flack for breastfeeding past 3 months or so. Generally what works if people give you flack is to just politely say, "Thank you for your concern. This is what works for our family." Then change the subject. If they persist, walk away, hang up, sign off.

If they are being polite and seem to want to understand, you can educate them of course. But if they are being assholes, walk away with your head high.

PS, I don't know why you'd get flack from swingers when you say you're in an open marriage?? Isn't swinging under the non-mono "open" umbrella?
 
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Magdlyn said:
Generally if one is super confident about one's alternative choices that go against the mainstream, people who might seem critical at first back down quick. Bullies only go after the weak.

I've lived so many alternatives. I am pansexual, genderqueer, kinky, and while I was monogamous and married to a man, I homebirthed 2 of my 3 kids, breastfed them all for 2-4 1/2 years, I homeschooled all 3 entirely, I avoid MDs as much as possible and use alternative medicine. I am also somewhere in between an atheist and a pagan. [...] I am a stealth weirdo.
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"I am a stealth weirdo" needs to be somewhere in your signature. ;)

I agree wholeheartedly with your first point. Early in my relationship with Chops, since we were all newbies at this sort of thing, we sort of blundered through clumsily and made a lot of mistakes. My emotions were up and down and ALL over the map. Our mutual friends learned of the poly nature of this relationship not too long before that time, and used these issues to judge the relationship itself as disrespectful - that Chops was the user, and I was the victim. It's actually damaged my relationship with a friend I considered to be as close as a sister, and I know only time can possibly change that (if ever).

Later, as things became a bit more routine(ish), it was easier for me to tell friends about the nature of our relationship and actually *project* that I was okay with it. Their response? Pretty much a shrug, some questions, one "I could never do that," one really amusing, "You all talk about your FEELINGS?!", and then the conversation moved on. Done. Nobody cared since I wasn't obviously struggling.

OP, if you and your husband are confident, then I think things will be okay. There may still be folks who judge you negatively, and if you aren't prepared (or don't want) to cut them loose, then the only thing that may change their minds is time.
 
Magdlyn said:
Generally if one is super confident about one's alternative choices that go against the mainstream, people who might seem critical at first back down quick. Bullies only go after the weak. [/QOUTE]

This is so true.

When I was going through my 30s single and not open to romantic relationships, childfree and planning to stay that way, working part time and spending my money on education and conferences rather than haircuts, shoes, curtains, cushions and holidays people would often comment negatively on my choices.

Usually people only did it once. Once I'd finished talking to them about why my choices made me happy and how much I was enjoying my life, they usually had nothing more to say. I know some people became jealous of my intentionally lived life.

I have friends living similar lifestyles but who wish their lives were otherwise. They tended to get much more nagging and belittling from others.

IP
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Magdlyn, a lot of the "swingers" on that site are single, and they're the ones giving us flak, especially since many of them were present at the barbecue where Hubby and I first met. We're one of the chat room's pet couples because we met there, and they think I bullied Hubby into opening the marriage because I'm a selfish bitch. (Never mind that *he* was the one who suggested opening the marriage...) The married couples who are part of the group don't hassle us as much, though some of them have told us we're "doing it wrong" because we don't play as a couple, so apparently that means we aren't really swingers.

Judgmental people judge everywhere...

Hubby and I continued the discussion last night. He told me his deepest, most irrational (his word) fear was that too many people would dump all over him for "allowing" this and that it would piss him off so much he would decide he was done with the situation and with our marriage. He was under the impression, even though I had already stated differently, that I wanted to go around telling everyone we know about Guy.

When I told him that I'm only asking for the freedom to be honest *if someone asks* about who Guy is, and that I want to be able to mention him as "my boyfriend" on my romance pen name's Facebook the same way I sometimes mention "my hubby" or "my kids", he relaxed a bit. Especially when I pointed out that most of the time, I don't even use his name when I mention him, I NEVER use my kids' names, and the only people who are "friends" with that Facebook account who know us in real life are some people from the swingers site, my 18-year-old who already knows, and her two best friends, who already know because she told them. And Guy, of course. Everyone else who's on that account is either another author or one of my readers.

He said, "As long as it's people who already know or who I'm never going to have to speak with, I don't care."

So I guess that's the compromise; I don't do the whole "Hey, guess what, I'm polyamorous" thing and don't tell anyone else who knows us in person unless I'm directly asked who Guy is, and hubby will try to relax and be okay with it.
 
KC43 said:
Magdlyn, a lot of the "swingers" on that site are single, and they're the ones giving us flak, especially since many of them were present at the barbecue where Hubby and I first met. We're one of the chat room's pet couples because we met there, and they think I bullied Hubby into opening the marriage because I'm a selfish bitch. (Never mind that *he* was the one who suggested opening the marriage...) The married couples who are part of the group don't hassle us as much, though some of them have told us we're "doing it wrong" because we don't play as a couple, so apparently that means we aren't really swingers.
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Wow! So apparently there is a *right* way to do all possible things... I mean, on this forum you can find many varying opinions about what is *really* poly. I guess some swingers have the same need to distinguish what is *really* swinging. Jeesh!

KC43 said:
So I guess that's the compromise; I don't do the whole "Hey, guess what, I'm polyamorous" thing and don't tell anyone else who knows us in person unless I'm directly asked who Guy is, and hubby will try to relax and be okay with it.
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Sounds like a good compromise! Kudos to you!

I can relate to all of your viewpoints, really. I have had the same kind of situation in my polyship - my husband (CJ) not wanting everyone to know. He still does not want certain people to know, and I am okay with it. I want "my people" to know about my life, and CJ has been ok with that. To Mark it was at one point very important to be introduced as my lover to *some* people in my life. It made him feel important to me, and was reassuring to him that our relationship is real and will continue. Now we are in a good place regarding this issue.
 
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