Couple new to poly has a date with a woman, wants advice
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adventurecouple
New member
Wheels almost came off last night.
Although we started talking about a solo date, for some reason we all agreed to get together again last night. And this time, Ivette's attention was squarely on me. (Lord help me, she's an incredible looking woman.) Shelly was involved, not forgotten, but clearly this time Ivette had a different focus. I was confused at first, but everything seemed to be fine during the date. I tried to hold my wife's hand as much as possible and always keep her included. But afterward, the jealousy came out. There was some crying, partially due to a bit of overdrinking, and then resolution and (I think) mutual understanding. Yes, we drove home alone again. We did get a little definition to what may happen with our friend. I pushed the issue after a few drinks and made it clear we wanted to keep seeing her, that we liked her, and we didn't want there to be any discomfort or misunderstanding. But also to that point, we didn't want to waste our time or hers. She affirmed that she wanted to keep seeing us but wants to get comfortable with us "little by little" which is, I suppose, code for "it's gonna be awhile before it's anything but surreptitious groping and fondling in the dark corners of a bar."
So apparently she DOES like us both. She whispered her desires to me when my wife got up to use the ladies' room and she said, "You're super hot. And your wife is really pretty too." At the time I just laughed and told her I felt embarrassed. But after thinking about her statement I wonder if it was a thinly-veiled message. Any kind of disproportionate interest from her to me will cause problems. Switch it the other way around, let her be more interested in my wife, and there's no issue -- I'm not jealous at all.
But this is the first time she's expressed this. Maybe she's just spreading the "love" around.
These are pretty big stumbling blocks in the early going. I actually told my wife last night, as we were driving home, that all of these issues, her jealousy because Ivette was sitting next to me with her arm around me, etc. (which she's already done with my wife!) were good reasons to call this quits right now. It's not worth it to me, honestly. Unless this just converts to a physical thing. And even then, it's not worth the emotional baggage to me if it can't be a light-hearted, good time with no hang-ups.
Maybe I'm just built more for a triad than my wife is. Sigh.
Although we started talking about a solo date, for some reason we all agreed to get together again last night. And this time, Ivette's attention was squarely on me. (Lord help me, she's an incredible looking woman.) Shelly was involved, not forgotten, but clearly this time Ivette had a different focus. I was confused at first, but everything seemed to be fine during the date. I tried to hold my wife's hand as much as possible and always keep her included. But afterward, the jealousy came out. There was some crying, partially due to a bit of overdrinking, and then resolution and (I think) mutual understanding. Yes, we drove home alone again. We did get a little definition to what may happen with our friend. I pushed the issue after a few drinks and made it clear we wanted to keep seeing her, that we liked her, and we didn't want there to be any discomfort or misunderstanding. But also to that point, we didn't want to waste our time or hers. She affirmed that she wanted to keep seeing us but wants to get comfortable with us "little by little" which is, I suppose, code for "it's gonna be awhile before it's anything but surreptitious groping and fondling in the dark corners of a bar."
So apparently she DOES like us both. She whispered her desires to me when my wife got up to use the ladies' room and she said, "You're super hot. And your wife is really pretty too." At the time I just laughed and told her I felt embarrassed. But after thinking about her statement I wonder if it was a thinly-veiled message. Any kind of disproportionate interest from her to me will cause problems. Switch it the other way around, let her be more interested in my wife, and there's no issue -- I'm not jealous at all.
But this is the first time she's expressed this. Maybe she's just spreading the "love" around.
These are pretty big stumbling blocks in the early going. I actually told my wife last night, as we were driving home, that all of these issues, her jealousy because Ivette was sitting next to me with her arm around me, etc. (which she's already done with my wife!) were good reasons to call this quits right now. It's not worth it to me, honestly. Unless this just converts to a physical thing. And even then, it's not worth the emotional baggage to me if it can't be a light-hearted, good time with no hang-ups.
Maybe I'm just built more for a triad than my wife is. Sigh.
adventurecouple
New member
I read the threads here and everyone who has success with this (or stages of success, anyway) seems to be in a much more advanced state of emotional being than we are.
I'm just beginning to see the massive challenges to be solved with a goal such as a polyamorous lifestyle. There's a pitfall at every turn, a new issue to be resolved every time someone says or does something unexpected. I feel like I could keep an even keel through those churning waters, but I don't feel competition from women. My wife does. She said as much. And she feels physically inadequate compared to our friend. Which is crazy, of course... she's in fantastic shape, and really looks amazing. But Ivette is 22, she's 40. She is constantly comparing herself, her body to our friend's. And she compares how I look at her vs. how I look at Ivette.
Unicorn hunters. Heh. I get it. I'm starting to see how we must be just another couple, yet another man and wife who think having a woman involved in their marriage would be an exciting way to live. It must be tedious to deal with people like us, our foolishness over and over again.
Perhaps I'm just an oddball. Don't get me wrong, I'm a red-blooded male, I love sex. But I really love feeling close to a person, feeling trust and concern, genuine care... love. To me that is as exciting as sex. I love that feeling. I love the closeness and tenderness of an intimate relationship. I think that's what I want as much or moreso than the sex. My wife seems to be more in the latter category. I think she fears me developing those feelings for another woman, even though we've specifically talked about a long-term relationship with a woman. (And wouldn't that have to be a big part of it, automatically?!)
We're not on the same wavelength, I realize. I don't think this is going to work right now. Seriously thinking about just calling it quits.
I'm just beginning to see the massive challenges to be solved with a goal such as a polyamorous lifestyle. There's a pitfall at every turn, a new issue to be resolved every time someone says or does something unexpected. I feel like I could keep an even keel through those churning waters, but I don't feel competition from women. My wife does. She said as much. And she feels physically inadequate compared to our friend. Which is crazy, of course... she's in fantastic shape, and really looks amazing. But Ivette is 22, she's 40. She is constantly comparing herself, her body to our friend's. And she compares how I look at her vs. how I look at Ivette.
Unicorn hunters. Heh. I get it. I'm starting to see how we must be just another couple, yet another man and wife who think having a woman involved in their marriage would be an exciting way to live. It must be tedious to deal with people like us, our foolishness over and over again.
Perhaps I'm just an oddball. Don't get me wrong, I'm a red-blooded male, I love sex. But I really love feeling close to a person, feeling trust and concern, genuine care... love. To me that is as exciting as sex. I love that feeling. I love the closeness and tenderness of an intimate relationship. I think that's what I want as much or moreso than the sex. My wife seems to be more in the latter category. I think she fears me developing those feelings for another woman, even though we've specifically talked about a long-term relationship with a woman. (And wouldn't that have to be a big part of it, automatically?!)
We're not on the same wavelength, I realize. I don't think this is going to work right now. Seriously thinking about just calling it quits.
Your feelings are common, and we get several new unicorn hunting couples coming here every week, either posting a Personal ad, or asking for help.
You can't separate love and sex unless you actively do things to prevent it, like swingers do. (No dates other than sex ones, no kissing, no extra cuddling, minimal eye contact, texting only to set up sex date, etc.)
You can however, have love and sex and connection with more than one person. Most of the more experienced people here are managing to do it. We just don't try to force triads or quads to happen. It doesn't work to make a box and try and force someone into it.
My bf Ginger is currently involved with a married couple (see my last 2 threads and blog for the last couple months) and it's one more clusterfuck. The husband and wife want a male unicorn, basically. They thought they wanted just sex, but are both finding they have feelings for my bf. However, the h is finding he can't stand sending his wife off for a one on one (sex and love) date with Ginger. So he's made a rule, no more one on one dates for them! If they want to be together, he has to be there too, and get his sex fix. So far, Ginger is going along with this... but he'd really like one on one with Carla, since he's way more into her than into David.
So complicated.
Would be so much easier if David agreed to let Carla go on date with Ginger (or any other man) on her own, and he can date (Ginger or any other man or woman) on his own. Maybe have a 3some now and then if all the stars are aligned. But each dyad needs alone time. You can't have a 3way relationship where everything needs to be done in 3s, always!
I hope you, your wife, and Ivette (or some other lover down the road) can find a way to do poly in some way that is fulfilling for you.
You can't separate love and sex unless you actively do things to prevent it, like swingers do. (No dates other than sex ones, no kissing, no extra cuddling, minimal eye contact, texting only to set up sex date, etc.)
You can however, have love and sex and connection with more than one person. Most of the more experienced people here are managing to do it. We just don't try to force triads or quads to happen. It doesn't work to make a box and try and force someone into it.
My bf Ginger is currently involved with a married couple (see my last 2 threads and blog for the last couple months) and it's one more clusterfuck. The husband and wife want a male unicorn, basically. They thought they wanted just sex, but are both finding they have feelings for my bf. However, the h is finding he can't stand sending his wife off for a one on one (sex and love) date with Ginger. So he's made a rule, no more one on one dates for them! If they want to be together, he has to be there too, and get his sex fix. So far, Ginger is going along with this... but he'd really like one on one with Carla, since he's way more into her than into David.
So complicated.
Would be so much easier if David agreed to let Carla go on date with Ginger (or any other man) on her own, and he can date (Ginger or any other man or woman) on his own. Maybe have a 3some now and then if all the stars are aligned. But each dyad needs alone time. You can't have a 3way relationship where everything needs to be done in 3s, always!
I hope you, your wife, and Ivette (or some other lover down the road) can find a way to do poly in some way that is fulfilling for you.
adventurecouple
New member
Thanks everyone.
I'm pulling the plug on this experiment for now. It's just too much heartache for too little gain.
I don't want my wife to feel jealous or hurt. It's not worth it to me. Especially not for what is obviously a very short-term thing.
I respect anyone who manages to get all the stars to align in order to live this kind of lifestyle. So many things have to happen -- it takes a stroke of massive luck, good fortune, three like-minded people that like each other and can think rationally as well as with their hearts. Clearly, most human beings are simply not wired to live this way. The few of us that desire it are left to wander and wonder, unless we magically strike gold.
Maybe someday we'll find a better fit and try again. Thanks again for all the advice -- sobering, it was, and so was the experience. I'm not sure I'd ever advocate polyamory after this, but I still crave it.
I'm pulling the plug on this experiment for now. It's just too much heartache for too little gain.
I don't want my wife to feel jealous or hurt. It's not worth it to me. Especially not for what is obviously a very short-term thing.
I respect anyone who manages to get all the stars to align in order to live this kind of lifestyle. So many things have to happen -- it takes a stroke of massive luck, good fortune, three like-minded people that like each other and can think rationally as well as with their hearts. Clearly, most human beings are simply not wired to live this way. The few of us that desire it are left to wander and wonder, unless we magically strike gold.
Maybe someday we'll find a better fit and try again. Thanks again for all the advice -- sobering, it was, and so was the experience. I'm not sure I'd ever advocate polyamory after this, but I still crave it.
What you aren't getting, is that polyamory does not mean a successful triad, when an existing MF couple goes out and finds their female unicorn! As I said early on, I think, triads are a hard thing to do. You could pursue poly by dating others separately from your wife, and she could find her own other lover(s).
You may have thought this would be a fun thing to do as a couple, and if it doesn't work, you're just going to give up.
But if you're really poly, you will want to pursue other relationships even on your own. Dating as a couple is a fantasy that rarely works.
Polyamory is not defined as 3way sex.
You may have thought this would be a fun thing to do as a couple, and if it doesn't work, you're just going to give up.
But if you're really poly, you will want to pursue other relationships even on your own. Dating as a couple is a fantasy that rarely works.
Polyamory is not defined as 3way sex.
adventurecouple
New member
Thanks -- you stated that well, and I understand.
I want a triad. I think my wife does too -- but nervously, and with jealousy issues, which basically makes it impossible. Neither of us wants to date on our own, i.e. date other people without the other around. I might be up for that, but it wouldn't be my first choice, and it's DEFINITELY not what she wants. In fact, she's terrified of that. I've already been given rules about when I can text or call Ivette! I think we are unicorn hunters and getting a taste of the nearly universal disappointment that such a goal brings.
I think we will simply slip back into the random encounter category. We both love women, but we will have to love them in the frustrating, bits and pieces, fits and starts way that characterize the vast majority of three way sexual encounters.
IndieSolo
Active member
My suggestion to you is to watch your drinking next time you have any kind of group sex or dates with people other than your spouse. We often think a little alcohol will loosen up our inhibitions and make things easier, but it actually distorts our perceptions of what is happening. Of course the wife was crying, alcohol will do that.
Sex while fully sober, present, and aware can be extremely exciting. I remember one particular night with Shorty where I was very nervous and trembling. all. over. I could barely speak. He, of course, couldn't miss that and it totally turned him on. His response was to completely take care of me and it was an unforgettable night of many orgasms.
We think we're supposed to be all confident and cool in bed. Fuck no! Feel vulnerable, feel nervous, feel excited, feel like you don't know what the hell you're doing - be what you are. Don't deaden the experience with booze - it only leaves you with drama, hangovers, and a pile of regrets. And I say this as someone who enjoys cocktails very much. I've had plenty of drunk sex, but prefer to be awake and alive when I fuck people.
Sex while fully sober, present, and aware can be extremely exciting. I remember one particular night with Shorty where I was very nervous and trembling. all. over. I could barely speak. He, of course, couldn't miss that and it totally turned him on. His response was to completely take care of me and it was an unforgettable night of many orgasms.
We think we're supposed to be all confident and cool in bed. Fuck no! Feel vulnerable, feel nervous, feel excited, feel like you don't know what the hell you're doing - be what you are. Don't deaden the experience with booze - it only leaves you with drama, hangovers, and a pile of regrets. And I say this as someone who enjoys cocktails very much. I've had plenty of drunk sex, but prefer to be awake and alive when I fuck people.
Well, that's just bullshit. Don't agree to that. Wifey needs to get a grip on reality.
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adventurecouple
New member
Hell, yes! I agree completely. I'm not at all a big drinker. Not only does it dull my perceptions but it inhibits, ah, my performance. 
My wife is not usually a big drinker either but she hadn't had much to eat all day, was nervous, and the three glasses of wine completely tanked her. (She's an extremely healthy person so alcohol has an 'enhanced' effect.) I'm sure that next time we put something together it'll involve less drinking.
I like to have all of my wits about me during sex, too. To me it is a multi-faceted, multi-dimensional experience, particularly when the attraction goes beyond the physical.
My wife is not usually a big drinker either but she hadn't had much to eat all day, was nervous, and the three glasses of wine completely tanked her. (She's an extremely healthy person so alcohol has an 'enhanced' effect.) I'm sure that next time we put something together it'll involve less drinking.I like to have all of my wits about me during sex, too. To me it is a multi-faceted, multi-dimensional experience, particularly when the attraction goes beyond the physical.
adventurecouple
New member
Maybe. But it's what she needs. I care more about her than sexytime with friends.
I do wish we could relax the rules a bit. She is the jealous type... does NOT like other women getting too up close and personal with me. Sigh.
IndieSolo
Active member
Then she is not ready for polyamory, IMHO.
I've found this a really interesting, illuminating thread, thanks to the non-defensiveness of the OP, and the non-judgmental answers from the forum.
As a bisexual woman with a certain degree of non-monogamous experience, I've given some thought to whether or not I'd be willing to date a couple as a "package deal." On the one hand, there really are like a million couples on dating sites seeking their "special lady"--though most of these wouldn't want me because I already have a male partner of my own. But surely, my dance card would fill with couples seeking a bi-lady to "play" with, someone to "spice up their marriage." But why would I care to "enhance" anyone else's relationship? I want to form relationships of my own!
I'm not saying I wouldn't date both members of a couple, or engage in threeway sex, because I absolutely would. I've certainly done it before. But not if it's as this thread describes, where I'd be expected to dole out my affections according to the couple's desires rather than my own, such as if I give too much affection to the man, the woman will freak, or if I don't connect enough with the man, both members of the couple will ditch me...
Sigh. That sucks.
I'd be interested to hear, if you're willing to share, what does your wife say about your decision to pull the plug? How did Ivette take it?
As a bisexual woman with a certain degree of non-monogamous experience, I've given some thought to whether or not I'd be willing to date a couple as a "package deal." On the one hand, there really are like a million couples on dating sites seeking their "special lady"--though most of these wouldn't want me because I already have a male partner of my own. But surely, my dance card would fill with couples seeking a bi-lady to "play" with, someone to "spice up their marriage." But why would I care to "enhance" anyone else's relationship? I want to form relationships of my own!
I'm not saying I wouldn't date both members of a couple, or engage in threeway sex, because I absolutely would. I've certainly done it before. But not if it's as this thread describes, where I'd be expected to dole out my affections according to the couple's desires rather than my own, such as if I give too much affection to the man, the woman will freak, or if I don't connect enough with the man, both members of the couple will ditch me...
Sigh. That sucks.
I'd be interested to hear, if you're willing to share, what does your wife say about your decision to pull the plug? How did Ivette take it?
adventurecouple
New member
Thanks for saying that. And I really appreciate the very even, very mature advice offered. It was immensely helpful to have realistic parameters thrown out to bracket our course, as well as some real world experience. The Unicorn Hunter article was really spot-on. I read it with a certain amount of humility, realizing that it basically was written about and for us. It did not buoy our hopes, but that's not what this 'reaching out' on my part is about. It's about really understanding and trying to get a handle on how realistic this goal truly is. As I alluded to in my original post, there are many big picture challenges lurking beyond the initial stages... we didn't get far enough to even come close to tackling those.
Precisely! That's what bothers me most about where my wife and I are right now. Frankly, that IS what we're looking for, at least to start, and it's eminently unfair to the third party right from the get-go. The stark reality is that we want to add to what we have, and that may very well require someone else to subtract from their own big picture. That wasn't entirely clear to me at the start, but it is now, thanks to this forum and the helpful guidance offered here. I'm not the kind of person who feels comfortable asking for that. It's entirely against my nature to restrict or cage another person's freedom. But that's the way I'm built, and not necessarily my wife. She wants rules, restrictions, conditions. She watches me with a jealous eye, although she doesn't fully realize/appreciate that at the moment. Regardless, for the most part, that just doesn't work with this lifestyle.
She is surprised I'm so willing to give up. She thought I'd be more motivated to make this work given the circumstances -- i.e. extremely attractive, younger woman who seems to be very much into us. I realize those opportunities don't grow on trees, and it may not ever happen again. I don't mean to look a gift horse in the mouth, or take this for granted. But sex for me is exciting based on the total package. The hints of jealousy, the constant comparison of bodies, the feeling of being watched and evaluated when I do so much as put my arm around our friend... it makes me feel tired, and dull, and... to be honest... annoyed. I don't like feeling that way. We built this up too much, talked it over too much, have kicked it around in the dust until the original ideal is all but unrecognizable. With random encounters, they just happen... there's no time for all of those emotions to get kicked up and wreak havoc on us. They're pure and enjoyable and joyful and that is how I prefer to live life, if possible. I want(ed) something more, but I just don't know if it's possible. This is not an easy thing to make happen.
As for Ivette, she doesn't know yet. Not because I'm trying to keep her in the dark or string her along. It's just the practical nature of schedules and holidays, etc. But I'll make it a point to do it tomorrow.
I am really thankful for the thoughtful comments and patience displayed to me. Thank you all so very much -- truly.
adventurecouple
New member
I concur.
adventurecouple
New member
Well, one more update.
Everyone (mainly my wife) seems to think I am overreacting and being a little too stuffy, so I'm going to roll with this interest the three of us have for each other for a little while longer. However, I've made it clear that I will just view our time together as fun, and we'll see what happens. NO grand aspirations, just fun and enjoyment of each others' company. My view: whether that will even include sex is a completely arbitrary/consequential result of how things go.
I'm just not willing to get all bent out of shape over the emotional aspects here -- so long as my wife is not too jealous/suspicious (we had a chat about that, actually) I will keep playing. I like people, their thoughts and ideas. Ivette is interesting to interact with and frankly, if all we ever do is hang out... well, whatever. The hornball in me might be a tad disappointed if that happens, but I've made peace with it. I just need to be in this mental place right now. It's healthy for me.
Not sure this 'polyamory' forum is even the right place to continue discussing this quirky budding romance between us, and I don't want to offend anyone by taking a light view of the subject matter. If it does I will cease posting on this thread. If y'all would like me to continue sharing, I'd enjoy doing so.
Everyone (mainly my wife) seems to think I am overreacting and being a little too stuffy, so I'm going to roll with this interest the three of us have for each other for a little while longer. However, I've made it clear that I will just view our time together as fun, and we'll see what happens. NO grand aspirations, just fun and enjoyment of each others' company. My view: whether that will even include sex is a completely arbitrary/consequential result of how things go.
I'm just not willing to get all bent out of shape over the emotional aspects here -- so long as my wife is not too jealous/suspicious (we had a chat about that, actually) I will keep playing. I like people, their thoughts and ideas. Ivette is interesting to interact with and frankly, if all we ever do is hang out... well, whatever. The hornball in me might be a tad disappointed if that happens, but I've made peace with it. I just need to be in this mental place right now. It's healthy for me.
Not sure this 'polyamory' forum is even the right place to continue discussing this quirky budding romance between us, and I don't want to offend anyone by taking a light view of the subject matter. If it does I will cease posting on this thread. If y'all would like me to continue sharing, I'd enjoy doing so.
IndieSolo
Active member
I always believe everyone should do this in their dating life, whether poly, mono, or anywhere in between. Trying to set a goal and pushing a relationship to reach that goal is just too stressful and adds too much pressure on everyone. Life is too short, and all we really have is the here and now. Enjoying the human beings in your presence and letting it be whatever it is... is the enlightened way to go, in my opinion!