Scared, Intimidated and Feeling Very Inadequate

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DebbieandRay

New member
Okay. So, a lot has happened in a short amount of time. Here at home, with me, Davison and Ray, we have been doing really well. We went to the swinger motel last night, just to use the pool pass. The pool pass gives you access to the pool, two hot tubs and a big play area. Me, Davison and Ray went to just have a good time, swim, meet people, play, etc. And more happened.

Ray noticed a woman, our age, and found her attractive, He hadn't seen her face, but he liked her body. I noticed Ray looking at her and asked what was on his mind. He told me that he just saw this woman as attractive. Then she turned around and I notced Ray's expression change. Ray looked at me and said, "Holy shit! I'll be right back. " Then he approached the woman he'd been looking at.

As Ray got closer to this woman he called out her name, and she responded with a smile. Ray and this woman hugged and smiled at each other. I walked up to both of them and Ray introduced me to Cindy, who happens to be the woman that Ray had intended on marrying before he met his ex-wife. Cindy told us that she had been divorced for about six months and was living with her sister. Ray informed Cindy that he still loved her and had tried to find her online.

Cindy told Ray that she had changed her name and had pretty much cut ties with most everyone she knew. She added that she was happy to see Ray, in more ways than one. Cindy told Ray that she had thought about him for years, even when she and her ex-husband had made love. Ray told Cindy that she looked amazing. And he was right. Cindy is fifty years old and has the figure of a twenty year old model. I remember Ray showing me pictures of Cindy when she was only seventeen and they were dating, and she hasn't really changed since then.

I introduced Davison to Cindy and she assumed that me and Davison were married. I explained to Cindy that me and Ray are married and Davison is my lover. Cindy smiled and recounted that Ray had liked watching her with other boys when they were dating. Cindy looked at Davison, then down at what he has. Then Cindy looked down at Ray and said, "I see nothing has changed." I asked Cindy what she meant and she said that Ray liked to see her with boys who had big ones, too. I asked Cindy what she preferred. Cindy said that she liked to play with the other boys, but never loved them the way she loved Ray. Cindy added that she and Ray had only had intercourse twice the whole time they dated.

The four of us sat in the hot tub together and talked. Cindy held Ray's hand most of the time and stroked Davison. Cindy eventually sat on Davison's lap, with him in her. Ray told Cindy that he would love to have her in his life again, on some level. Cindy then asked Davison if he lived with us, and he said yes. Cindy told Ray that she could see that happening. Ray repeatedly told Cindy how good she looked, and Davison told me that he would like to have Cindy around , too. I began to feel sick to my stomach. And I knew why. I was feeling jealous of Cindy.

I asked Cindy about her marriage. She told us that she had been married to her husband since 1982, had two grown boys who lived here in Colorado, and that she and her husband had divorced because her husband had fallen out of love with her and had fallen in love with a twenty-two year old woman. Cindy told me that she envied me because I had both Ray and Davison. I just smiled.

I asked Cindy what her life plans were now that she is divorced. Cindy told me that she has no specific plans, and that she is open to what ever life throws at her. Cindy added that people come into your life for a reason, and that she felt that her seeing Ray again, and meeting me and Davison, was the best thing to happen to her in a very long time. Davison invited Cindy to stay the night with us and she accepted. Not what I wanted, but I let it happen.

When we got home, we all talked for a while and Davison asked me if I would mind if he spent the night with Cindy and I spent the night with Ray. I said it was okay, although it wasn't. Although Ray had his hands all over me for most of the night, all I could think of was what Davison and Cindy were doing, and how jealous I was of Cindy. I asked Ray what was so special about Cindy. Ray told me that Cindy is an awesome person, and to look at her. She is fifty years old. She's still a hottie. She's thin, and she's got perfect tits.

The more Ray talked about Cindy, and the more I heard Davison and Cindy in the other room, the more jealous I felt. I am younger than Cindy is, but I am also about one hundred pounds bigger than Cindy is. And Cindy seems to be what Ray and Davison both want.

I know that jealousy is a fear of loss. I know that. Yet, it is a real fear. Davison made love to Cindy at the motel pool area and then most of the night last night. Ray even had intercourse with Cindy and told me he missed feeling her. Jealousy may be a fear of loss, but that loss could very well happen. And I know that. I could lose both Ray and Davison to Cindy. And that scares the hell out of me.

I never thought myself to be the jealous type, but obviously I am. I have enjoyed that Ray has let me be with other men. And I have loved being with Davison for the last couple of weeks. But this is new to me, the whole feeling jealous and all.

I didn't sleep at all last night. After Ray had intercourse with Cindy, he told me that he hadn't enjoyed sex like that since he didn't know when. I asked Ray what made fucking Cindy so special. He told me that women like Cindy don't normally go for guys like him, and the fact that she still loves him means a lot to him. Ray added that seeing Cindy with Davison was a WOW experience for him.

Cindy seems to be a nice person, and she made both Davison and Ray very happy last night, but she scares me. Davison, Ray and Cindy exchanged phone numbers this morning, and Davison told Cindy that she really rocked his world. Cindy told all of us that she had a great time and would like for all of us to become friends. She also told Ray that she loved that he was still the same guy she had fallen in love with years ago.

I am freaking out. I am not sure how to feel or what to do. On one hand I am happy that Ray finally enjoyed sex again, with a woman. I am also happy that Cindy was able to rock Davison's world, but at what cost?

While we all ate breakfast this morning, Cindy thanked me for sharing my men with her. She also told me what she loved most about Ray is the fact that he is not like other men. Cindy told me that Ray being the sharing type makes him a special person. Cindy told me that she felt that Ray really had a handle on what love really is. I told her I felt the same way at times. Cindy also told me that finding Davison was an awesome thing as well. She told me that making love with Davison and Ray made her feel really good. I just smiled.

Cindy told me that men like Ray are hard to come by, a rare find. She also said that having both Ray and Davison in my life must be very fulfilling. I told her it was, and that after last night she should know that feeling. Cindy told us that her marriage was very un-fulfilling. She said that her ex-husband was a great father to their boys, but he wasn't much of a husband. Sports, hunting and NASCAR were her ex-husband's biggest interests, as well as his beer. Cindy told us that last night was what she had always wanted with her husband, but it never happened.

Davison told Cindy that she was amazing last night, and that he would love to get to know her better, and a lot more often. Ray told Cindy that he was happy that they met again, and that he would love to have her in his life again. Cindy thanked both of them and said she would love to get to know all of us, and to get to know Ray again. Cindy told Ray that they had a lot of catching up to do. Davison told Cindy that she was welcome in our house any time.

While Cindy showered, I told Ray of my jealous feelings. Ray told me that he would tell Cindy, and that he would have nothing to do with her going forward. Davison told me to grow up. Davison told me that I was just being childish, that I needed to understand that love is love and playing is playing, and that both can exist. Davison told Ray that he would be stupid, and lying, to tell Cindy that he never wanted to see her again. Davison also told me that he is not willing to let that happen. Davison told me that I would do best by allowing Cindy into our lives and for all of us to be happy. He also told me that the best way to lose him or Ray would be to try to tell us who we can like or love.

I want Davison and Ray to be happy, but right now I am scared, intimidated and feeling very inadequate. When we went to therapy yesterday evening, Margaret, our therapist, told us to be open to new experiences and feelings. When she said that I had no idea that I would be experiencing these feelings. Margaret also told Ray to try to find what really makes him feel good. Well, I think that's Cindy.

I am forty-five years old. I am five foot four and I weigh two hundred pounds. Cindy is about five foot seven, and she weighs maybe one hundred and twenty pounds, and her breasts are still perfect, and real.

I know that Davison and Ray love me, but I am still scared. I have never felt like this before. I love having lovers, but I have discovered that I don't like sharing my men, at least in a way that could turn serious. I also know that being this way is not very poly.

To make matters worse, I called Roy (My other husband) this morning, for him to console me, but, instead, he told me that I was being childish as well. And he told me that he would love to meet Cindy, and possibly get to KNOW her.

Any advise or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
I am not trying to be facetious but your post was very difficult to follow and I gave up partway through it. Too many details to keep track of. Perhaps if you shorten your post to just state your problem you may get more replies. The post was just too much for my old brain to follow. Sorry and just trying to help. I would gladly give my worthless opinion but I need an easier explanation of your situation to do so.
 
Debbie's been posting here a while... this is how she posts.

To summarize, including a bit of backstory if you haven't read her previous threads (as I understand it; Debbie, correct me if I have anything wrong, okay?):

Debbie is married to Ray. Ray is a cuckold; he enjoys watching Debbie have sex with other men. Ray is submissive. Debbie has sex with multiple men, some she knows and some she doesn't.

Debbie met Davison. She and he had sex. Debbie told Ray. They talked to Davison about moving in with them and becoming the "man of the house", while Ray takes a more submissive/servant role. This happened.

From this post:
Debbie, Ray, and Davison went to a swinger motel to use the pool.

Ray saw a woman from his past, Cindy. Cindy and Ray had a relationship as teens, and at one time considered getting married. That didn't happen.

Cindy still has feelings for Ray. Ray still has feelings for Cindy.

Davison was attracted to Cindy. They had sex at the motel and again at Debbie and Ray's place. At some point, Cindy and Ray also had sex.

Debbie considers Cindy more physically attractive than she is, and worries that Ray and Davison also find Cindy more attractive. Debbie is jealous of Cindy, which is not something Debbie's used to feeling.

When Debbie told Ray, Davison, and Roy (another man she's involved with) about her jealousy, Davison and Roy told her to "grow up" and get over it. Roy also expressed an interest in "knowing" Cindy. Ray told Debbie that if she was jealous, he wouldn't see Cindy anymore, but Davison told Ray that was a stupid idea and he wants Cindy to become part of the equation.

Debbie now feels not only jealous, but also fearful and inadequate.

Summary over...

Debbie, I'm sorry you're struggling with this. It isn't always easy to see one's lovers with someone else, particularly when you consider that someone else to be more physically attractive than you. You've been fortunate that your men don't mind sharing you, but that doesn't mean it's going to be easy when it goes the other way and you have to share them.

It's unfortunate that instead of validating your feelings and giving you reassurance, Davison and Roy told you to stop acting like a child. It sounds like they aren't giving you a choice about whether they're involved with Cindy, which in my opinion isn't fair to you; they get a say in what you do sexually, they should give you the same consideration.

However...

Regardless of what Cindy looks like vs. what you look like, that doesn't mean she's better than you. Sex and love aren't only about appearance; sometimes appearance doesn't factor in at all.

Some men prefer women who are heavier and curvier, and sometimes looks don't matter a bit. My friend Maple (I use the word "friend" loosely) had gastric bypass surgery a decade ago, plastic surgery to remove the excess skin; and got breast implants. She's skinny with big tits. Even my own husband has said that Maple is cuter and sexier than I am; he prefers "little" women.

But... Hubby has also said even though he's attracted to Maple, he would never actually "do" her, for various personality-related reasons. And S2, who's good friends with Maple and has gone hiking with her several times, flat out told me that physically *and* mentally/emotionally, he vastly prefers me over her.

Ray, Davison, and even Roy might be attracted to Cindy... but they're married to/involved with YOU.

Jealousy is an emotion. Emotions happen, and however you feel is 100% okay. What matters is how you *handle* those feelings. You can't control your emotions. You *can* control your thoughts, words, and actions.

When you start feeling jealous of Cindy, say to yourself, "I'm beautiful too. My men love me. They might want her *in addition* to me, but they aren't going to want her *instead of* me."

No matter what your men say about your jealousy... allow yourself to feel and acknowledge it. If they won't validate your right to feel that way, validate it yourself. Remind yourself that it's okay to feel jealous, but that you love your men and they love you, and you want them to be happy.

You say "being this way isn't very poly." I would disagree. I think many poly folk struggle with feelings of jealousy and fear. I've seen plenty of posts about it on this forum. If you ordered your men not to see Cindy or any other women, *that* would not be very poly. But feeling afraid and jealous? That doesn't have anything to do with being poly or not; you're being human.
 
I agree with everything KC43 said. I went through similar feelings at first with Sweet Lady. Bud has always liked bigger women. Sweet Lady is a size 2 compared to my size 22 so I was terrified he suddenly didn't find the way I looked attractive anymore. I reminded myself that what attracted him to her was her amazing, sweet personality not her looks and that just because she was different than me it didn't mean Bud loved me any less. Sweet Lady and I are different people with different things to offer Bud so expecting her & I to be exactly the same was not fair to anyone. I had to have many conversations with myself before I finally felt better. It was my issue, not Bud's or Sweet Lady's so I didn't take the problem to them.
 
Thanks for the recap. It really helped me understand the problem. I cannot give you my personal perspective as I would never enter a MMF relationship since I find guys too sexually competitive. All my relationships have been FFM. However, my wife does not have a jealous bone in her body despite having a 32A sized chest (36C after menopause) , 4'11"and size 0 clothes. Her ribs showed through. Plus she was high school educated while our g/f had 2 Masters and 1 Bachelor Degrees plus a 36 EE chest. Our g/f was gorgeous compared to my flat chested and too thin wife and yet my wife was fine with my relationship with her g/f, even encouraged me to have sex alone with her. To top it off, our g/f was into BDSM as I was but not my wife. Took about reasons to be insecure.

I asked my wife why she never got jealous after 20 years of living with another woman and she just said that she knew that I would never leave her and she was right. She did not look at her girlfriend's beauty and education. She looked at the type of person she was compared to what I value the most. As good looking and educated as our g/f was, my love for her was not as deep as it was for my wife. My wife and I have very little in common in all areas of our life and yet, we share a deep and long lasting love for each other that has survived other women. I have read about it and for me it was true.

My wife is insecure in almost every aspect of her life except in our love for each other. We have watched each other with outside lovers and never felt jealous. I know that my wife prefers sex with someone she deeply loves. We all get excited with a new sex partner and we learned that is par for the course and no reason to feel insecure. I hope you find peace in your relationship and I tend to write long posts too, especially late at night after I have taken my medication and my mind wanders. :)

For us, all other problems went away when we became secure in our primary relationship. I traveled most of the year so my wife and I were apart for a long time. I did not question her and she did not question me. We always knew we would be there for each other and just this one belief, eliminated all other problems. Good luck.
 
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Last night Cindy called and asked me if we could go out and have dinner and talk. So, I said okay. She explained to me that she has no intention of taking my men from me. She did tell me that spending the night with us was one of the best nights of her life. Cindy told me that the sex she'd had with Davison was mind blowing, but it was seeing Ray and being able to see him again and talking with him, and all the memories they shared that she really liked.

Cindy told me that Ray, my husband, is like no other man she has ever met. And it's true. I have always said that. Cindy told me that Ray has always been the giving type, the sharing type, and very loving. And it's true to this day.

Cindy told me that her marriage was not fulfilling in that her husband was great as a father, but he never really spoke her love languages, which are words of affirmation, physical touch. Cindy told me that she works hard to look the way she does, and she loves receiving and giving physical attention. And with Davison and Ray she got both. Davison and Ray both kept telling her how hot she was, and they both wanted her, physically. They both spoke her love languages. And that made her feel loved and appreciated and wanted.

Cindy told me that her husband left her for a younger woman, who is even thinner than she is, and that hurt. She told me that she wasn't sure that her husband ever really loved her. Cindy told me that when Ray told her that he still loved her that she felt truly loved. And having Davison was a fulfillment she had dreamed of but never thought would ever happen.

Cindy told me that she had thought about Ray nearly everyday the whole time that she'd been married. She also told me that I was the luckiest woman alive, as far as she was concerned. Cindy told me that Ray has always been a acts of service kind of guy, and that he has always been the type to give and do for others. She added that Thursday night was a perfect example. Cindy told me that she saw me as an acts of service type, too. And she could tell that my main love languages are physical touch and quality time. I admitted that she was right.

Cindy told me that during her marriage that she had been faithful and monogamous, and that the reason she had sex with Davison and Ray on Thursday night was because she knew that Ray still liked that, and that I seemed like a very cool person.

To make a long story short, we talked for hours, we became friends, and I realized that Cindy is a good person, all in all. Cindy ended up staying the night last night. I slept in Ray's room and Davison and Ray slept with Cindy. I am the only one up right now. Sleeping alone last night was new to me. I haven't slept alone in years, yet it gave me the opportunity to do a lot of thinking.

I think that Cindy came back into Ray's life, and into mine and Davison's, for a reason. I feel that she came into my life to teach me how much I am loved, and how good my life really is. And although Cindy hasn't seen Ray in nearly fourty years, she knows him, because Ray is the same person now that he has always been. And I believe Cindy came back into Ray's life because he had forgotten how to feel. And she came into Davison's life so that she could get the physical fulfillment she has only been able to dream about.

I think it is going to be interesting to see how all of this unfolds. I love my men, and I know they love me. And I think that Cindy is in our lives, and us in hers, for a deeper reason than I am seeing now.

Any further advice is truly appreciated, and thank you so far.
 
Debbie, I think that's awesome that you and Cindy could get together and build the beginnings of a new friendship, and I think you deserve much kudos for finding your way to a better headspace in regards to Cindy.

Based on what I've heard so far, I think there's as much reason to trust Cindy as there is to trust Davison -- and you trust Davison enough to let him live with you in your home; that's a great deal of trust, and you haven't known Davison that long if you think about it.

I think Cindy reached out to you because she could tell you were feeling jealous and insecure. She has promised you that she won't steal your men. I think you might also want to sit down with Ray and Davison and ask if they're willing to promise you that they won't leave you. You could say to them that it would help you a lot and that you wouldn't feel so insecure.

I know that the reality is that no one can ever be 100% sure that their loved ones will always be in their life. But we can be reasonably confident about certain things. For instance, you can get assurance (and reassurance) from Ray and Davison that neither of them wants to trade you in for Cindy. I think both of them want to have both you and Cindy in their lives. Neither you nor Cindy is "the better woman;" you are just different, just like Ray and Davison are different. Each man and each woman brings something unique and irreplaceable to the table.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Cindy is "new" to the guys right now. She's not really new to Ray but it's been so long since he and she were together that it's like she's new. That means that Ray and Davison are probably both experiencing some NRE with respect to Cindy. It's a natural part of what makes us human, and it's not permanent. As time goes by, their excitement over Cindy will simmer down into something calmer and longer-lasting. And it's okay to remind them that you need some extra reassurance.

I would encourage you to continue to get together with Cindy and build a long-lasting friendship with her. Instead of being two women on two opposing and competing teams, become two women on one and the same team. Be there to support each other. I think Cindy would even be willing to remind the men when they need to spend some with you. She wants to be on your team.

It is scary to suddenly have Cindy appear in your life, and Rob and Davison have kind of acted immature themselves (though perhaps partially in defense of Ray?). But that, too, is part of being human, just the same as it is human to feel afraid. I am hopeful that you'll feel less afraid as time goes on. Hang in there, and ride the wave with your loved ones.

I wish you good luck, and hope you'll keep us updated on how things are going.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I would encourage you to continue to get together with Cindy and build a long-lasting friendship with her. Instead of being two women on two opposing and competing teams, become two women on one and the same team. Be there to support each other. I think Cindy would even be willing to remind the men when they need to spend some with you. She wants to be on your team.
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Cindy has stayed the last three nights and even joined me when we had "church" this morning. Davison and Ray have both brought up that Cindy should move in with us. I admit we have the room. And Cindy is currently sleeping on her sister's couch. Davison brought up to Cindy that we have the room and that he and Ray would like her to move in, if she chose to do so. Ray told Cindy that he would love to have her living with us today.

Cindy told me, after "church," that she never imagined that she would have the opportunities that we are offering her. And that she's not sure what she's done to deserve any of it. Ray told Cindy that being herself was what she had done to deserve it. Cindy told us that she is going to seriously consider moving in with us, and that until she makes that decision that she wants to stay the night as often as we will let her. Ray offered to help her move in today, if she wanted to. And that's where Ray and Cindy are now, at Cindy's sisters, getting some of Cindy's stuff.

I know this is going to change the dynamics of mine and Davisons and Ray's relationship. And I agree that this is happening really fast. I also realize that we have had people live with us in the past, and it has always worked out really well. Roy, my other husband, has even offered to help out where he can. Roy's wife works tonight and he is coming over tonight. He wants to meet and get to know Cindy. I feel that since Roy is a part of our life that he and Cindy should meet and get to know each other. And I am hoping that Roy and Cindy get along as well as Cindy and Davison and Ray have.

My daughter came by earlier and got to meet Cindy. She seems to like her. My daughter told me that maybe having Cindy around will help Ray become more of what I have wanted him to be like. I had to tell my daughter that Ray being the way he is is the reason that Cindy has always loved him. I told my daughter that Cindy has helped me to see Ray differently than before, and that Ray has been a lot different since Cindy has been around.

I think that my fears that I had earlier are gone now, or at least at bay, but after today, we all are going to have to get used to everything being different than it has been.
 
I definitely agree with you that it is a big change and a steep learning curve. Still, things seem to be going well so far. I'm optimistic!
 
More fiction.
 
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