My Fiance isn't made for monogamy

B

Bluesun

New member
Cheers to the folks here,
I'm a mother of three engaged to a man who as the title states, isn't made for monogamy. I love him, am in love with him but am finding it hard to cope with what he needs me to support him in: polyamory.

I'm monogamous by nature. He's not, has never been able to be monogamous in the 25+ years he's had relationships.

He cheated on me during my pregnancy with our son, and I was devastated when I found out a year ago. He continually flirts with other women, mostly online.

I was really angry with him/the OW (whom he now no longer sees), but my anger has given way with a profound aha moment I've had recently (on my own terms). I've come to realize this is just who he is. He isn't made for monogamy any more than I am for polyamory. That doesn't make him bad, or inferior to me (which I'd previously felt feelings of superiority towards him about his roving ways because I've never felt the need or desire to find another when in a serious relationship).

I asked him if we could talk the other day, and I apologised for expecting him to be a circle (monogamous) when he is in fact a triangle (polyamorous). I told him I don't want to tell him what to do/not do with his body or mind any more. That I want to get to know and love him as he is (the real him), not for who I wanted him to be. That I don't really want him to be a circle if that's not who he is. If I expect him to be a circle and he tries (and has tried for me and other women and felt shame over what seems to be a deep seated drive for him to be poly) to conform and lop off his corners in order to try to fit through the mold, it is deeply unfair of me to expect that of him, just as it would be unfair for him to expect me to be anything or anyone I'm not.

I told him I wasn't trying to trick him, but rather wanted him to know I get it now. I wanted us to start our relationship again but without the masks he's been pressured by society into wearing his entire life. I understand that he is different to me and that's ok. I told him that for me the biggest hurt in his affair was him lying to me, and my own insecurities in feeling like I wasn't good enough.

I'm extremely depressed though since I've given up trying to change the dynamics to being completely monogamous. I guess my dream I've had since I was a little girl of being married to a man who would love me as I am and not need another has been shattered, and this is so painful. Our relationship is not what I thought it would be when we first started going out. I think it's been painful for him too for the same reasons, as he did want to be monogamous. My dream is gone and I know now that I can't live with him as long as I continue to hold up that dream and try to make it happen. It won't happen as he isn't who I thought he was at first (not a circle but rather a triangle). I told him that I understand now that I didn't listen to him when I was pregnant when he tried to tell me he wasn't mono - and I told him I feel bad about that because in essence a lot of my pain has been caused by the expectations I had.

I can't explain how sad I feel, how my whole body aches and I just want to curl up in bed and never face the world again. I think I need some space from him, as every time I look at him, I both want to bawl and bawl and bawl and at the same time want to be held by him and assured I am loved. I cannot have space though as we have a child together and both work from home. Besides, I do love him and he says he does love me and we want to work through this and grow together through whatever comes our way.

I love him and want for him to not have to conform to ideals that ultimately he can't stick to and was really destroying our relationship. I want to be supportive, but am very afraid. I'm so afraid he will find someone else who will rock his moon and he will end up leaving me for her... but that was a possibility anyway given he has never been able to have a relationship without straying. I'm afraid of wasting my youth while he has multiple wonderful relationships and I end up getting left behind while I remain faithful. I'm afraid of being alone and neglected. I'm afraid of bearing his children and raising them up only to be discarded for someone else who has not bourne his children and given so much of themselves. I'm afraid of him bringing home an STD and ruining my life (health and fertility) with it.

He says he can be honest with me now. Only time will tell if that's the case. He says it's been painful having to try to be what other people see as being the "right" way - monogamous.

I wanted to join this community to get to see how other people do it and how they move past the insecurities and fear and jealousy. To talk to people who might understand what I'm going through as I cannot talk to my friends about any of it because they would tell me to just leave him. None of them view polyamory in a favourable light, which I can't blame them for as they also grew up thinking circles were the bomb!

The fact is, he could leave me for someone else whether or not we are mono-poly or just mono, but at least this way I would be accepting him for who he is, not trying so desperately to change him (and feeling so much hurt and destruction in myself in trying over and over to change him), he would feel safer emotionally with me, and we could live and love even if our relationship does end up ending. I think for me, I found it so easy to just say, "Just be faithful, it's not that hard," because I personally find it easy to be monogamous. But in my aha moment, I realized my statements to him were judgemental (unkind) and unfair because he does not find monogamy easy, if anything I'd say he probably finds it next to impossible for any length of time.

I'm looking for support as we work out where we are going with things and how we'll end up doing them and no judgements. And I am sorry for this post's length.

May you all find peace and tranquillity.
 
Welcome here, Bluesun. I am new here myself, so I will leave it to the more experienced members to give you the kind of solid support I've seen them give others. However, I was moved by your story and your courage, and I felt compelled to just express one thought:

I would venture to predict that he will not find someone that is as forgiving and accommodating as you, and if he ever thinks he has, I think he would probably be mistaken. I truly hope he sees you for, and continues to see you for the gem you are.

My apologies if I stepped on toes or said something politically incorrect. I just felt I had to say that.
 
kullervo said:
Welcome here, Bluesun. I am new here myself, so I will leave it to the more experienced members to give you the kind of solid support I've seen them give others. However, I was moved by your story and your courage, and I felt compelled to just express one thought:

I would venture to predict that he will not find someone that is as forgiving and accommodating as you, and if he ever thinks he has, I think he would probably be mistaken. I truly hope he sees you for, and continues to see you for the gem you are.

My apologies if I stepped on toes or said something politically incorrect. I just felt I had to say that.
Click to expand...

Thank you kullervo for your kindness, I did just read your thread with your wife, was very touching to hear both of your stories.

I had a big talk with him this afternoon. He actually cried which was a shock. I didn't think he cared about how hard this is for me, but he says he does care. I explained how my whole world shattered when I found out about the other woman and I was really hurt by some of the things that had been said: I couldn't eat for days after finding out, throwing up, all while breastfeeding a newborn. That (time period) was tough and he was very evasive at the time and didn't want to deal with the confrontation of what effect his actions had had on me. To be able to now talk with him with him being himself and not editing or covering up is a wonderful thing. I explained to him this is very scary for me but that I don't want him to pretend to be something with me that he is not, I want him to be able to be himself and for us to create a new "dream" out of the shattered remains of the old one. As much as I've wished things would go back to how they were before, fact is things were never that way to begin with, it was merely an illusion. We can either work with what we have and make our relationship based on who we both are, or we can shove everything under the carpet (which I'm not good at) and force our relationship into a box it won't properly fit.

He's assured me he loves me and wants to grow old with me, and he laughed when I said that he might find someone (to run off with) in five, ten, twenty, thirty years time and take off leaving me to raise the children. We have a 23 year age gap, and he was laughing because he said he didn't want to leave me and that if he leaves me in thirty years time he'll be in his 80s and can't imagine that happening. It took a bit of talking just to get to the point where he could understand I wasn't trying to shame him, I just needed to talk to him about how I am afraid and understand that he understands what I'm going through. To be heard is really important.

We have so much to work through and I have so much growth on my part, but we're talking more than we ever have been able to and with him actually communicating to me his feelings and thoughts instead of just saying what he thinks is the right or appropriate thing to say is great.

I too hope I haven't stepped on any toes or said anything politically incorrect. I don't want to upset anyone on here, I just really don't know where else I can turn to talk.
 
I think for me (sorry to be using so many Is and me's), my fears and insecurities go back to having a very painful childhood. I grew up in a very religious household that was abusive physically, sexually, emotionally, mentally, spiritually and a lot of neglect. I got kicked out of home as a teenager and lived on the streets. I'm still estranged from my parents due to the difference in our beliefs which was and still is quite painful being estranged. I have no family to turn to and cannot talk to my family at all as they have told me I'm the anti-Christ for not believing the exact same way or same things they do. To be discarded again would be so painful, especially because it took me a long time to trust anyone and had sworn off men altogether years ago to stick to just being a mother and concentrating on my career. My partner came along and swept me off my feet and I felt more alive with him than I had thought was humanly possible. My friends were shocked and thrilled for me, and I felt then and still do, safer and more loved than I ever felt with anyone else.
 
I think you fell in love with somebody, you started a family with them, thought that you were going to have a life with them and now you find out after they cheated on you that they don't want the life that you want to have. that's really hard to deal with for somebody who wants one person and they want a traditional family to be told that their husband is going to be going out and having relationships and sex with multiple women. there's nothing wrong with you feeling bad about that. You just have to decide if that's what you're going to be willing to put up with and for how long. sometimes people look at it and go well I don't think I really want to deal with that and then they just leave immediately. some people try it for several years until they realize it's just not for them and then they look back and feel like we just wasted a lot of their life. but sometimes people just end up learning to deal with it because they love the person so much they're willing to sacrifice their own comfort and they slowly get used to the idea that they have to share the apartment with somebody else.Is he okay with you having other relationships if you choose to do so?
 
Greetings Bluesun,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

It is perfectly alright for you to post in the blogs section, just to let you know.

I think you have done a kind, wonderful, compassionate thing in sacrificing your dream of a blissful monogamous marriage for the hard, scary road of polyamory. Your fiancé is very lucky to have you.

I encourage you to do lots of reading and posting on this site. Let us know of your thoughts, questions, and concerns. The Poly Relationships Corner is the best place to go to get advice and answers, but people can post helpful comments on your blog thread as well.

There are some really good poly books on the market right now and you might want to consider investing in a few of them. Examples:

  • "Opening Up: a guide to creating and sustaining open relationships," by Tristan Taormino.
  • "More than Two: a practical guide to ethical polyamory," by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert.
  • "Polyamory: the new love without limits," by Deborah Anapol.
  • "The Polyamorists Next Door: inside multiple-partner relationships and families," by Elisabeth Sheff.
Reading these books will help remove some of the mystery from polyamory and as we tend to fear the unknown, increasing familiarity with polyamory may help you to feel not as frightened about it. Reading these books may also inspire you to start new topics here on Polyamory.com, ask fresh new questions, and get new insights from the great variety of members here.

I hope we can help in some small way to make your poly (or poly/mono) journey a little easier. If you start a blog here, post a link in this intro thread leading to that blog, and I'll follow that link.

I'm pleased and honored that you could join us.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
Inyourendo said:
I think you fell in love with somebody, you started a family with them, thought that you were going to have a life with them and now you find out after they cheated on you that they don't want the life that you want to have. that's really hard to deal with for somebody who wants one person and they want a traditional family to be told that their husband is going to be going out and having relationships and sex with multiple women. there's nothing wrong with you feeling bad about that. You just have to decide if that's what you're going to be willing to put up with and for how long. sometimes people look at it and go well I don't think I really want to deal with that and then they just leave immediately. some people try it for several years until they realize it's just not for them and then they look back and feel like we just wasted a lot of their life. but sometimes people just end up learning to deal with it because they love the person so much they're willing to sacrifice their own comfort and they slowly get used to the idea that they have to share the apartment with somebody else.Is he okay with you having other relationships if you choose to do so?
Click to expand...

Thank you for replying, I really appreciate your input. :)

He says he would be ok if I had relationships with others, but would find it difficult if it was men. Which doesn't bother me at all that he feels that way about me with other men as I myself feel very much to be a one man woman. I'm bi and he says he'd have no problem if it was other women as long as I didn't run off myself.

Personally, I think I could cope if I got to know the other person and could become friends with them - this was another issue with the other woman that I still struggle with. I think she's a lovely person even though I've never met her and I would've tried to become friends with her if I had known (if he had approached me from the get go about her instead of hiding it behind my back). She even has some of the same interests as me, and it would be cool to be able to be friends with someone who's his lover and good friend. He was so in love with her, and I found their love together (after I'd found out and had some weeks to process everything) quite beautiful. I was angry because they hadn't been honest with me. She knew about me, knew I was carrying his child and wasn't honest with me. I understand WHY she wasn't honest, because she was afraid I would turn out to be some nut job and hunt her down, but I'm not like that at all. It still hurts that they weren't honest with me and that I couldn't at least get to know her.

I want to friends with all his exs that he's still friends with and am friends with one whom he had a miscarriage with - she's great to talk to but doesn't speak a whole lot of English. She doesn't know that I know, and I am wary of bringing it up because of her having had a miscarriage with him and I don't want to cause her any pain.

The last woman (I'll call her Mags - not real name) he had a LTR with before him and I started seeing each other, hates my guts because she still wants to be with him, is angry that I have a child with him when she couldn't, and even went so far as accusing me of having an affair on him and telling him stuff about our son (saying he doesn't look like him, he should get a paternity test and so forth). Which is really hurtful and disgusts me because I have never been unfaithful to anyone and I have even considered getting a paternity test and throwing it at her which wouldn't be very nice of me. :(

But yeah, I wanted to be friends with Mags even before she started running her mouth off and telling everyone we knew that I'm a slut (makes me so angry) when I'm the furthest thing from that.

I've told him time and time again over the years that the only way we can work through stuff is if we TALK about stuff - if I don't know what's going on, how can we get anywhere? I would've been angry and hurt initially (and there would have been a lot of tears on my part) if he'd told me he wanted to see her and have a relationship with her, but I certainly wouldn't have left him over it. I'm not the shrinking violet he seems to have thought I was. With honesty comes growth which can be very painful at times. The only way to get anywhere is through the pain though, if you just shove things under the rug you get nowhere.

I think I'm mono, but can't say for certain that I couldn't ever be open to a relationship with another woman while with my partner. That's hard for me to imagine simply because it would probably feel like cheating to me and I love him so much and don't want to ever hurt him. I just don't know and I guess the fear comes in too when I think I might miss out on being loved when he is getting lots of love. I find it easy to be mono with him as he does provide me with what I need emotionally and physically. But whether I could become (or am without knowing it) poly myself, I really don't know at this point. I guess I would worry about myself not being able to give two or more people the love they deserve and wouldn't want to cause anyone pain. It's quite confusing really and I'm not sure how to deal with it all.

I'm not attracted to men per se (so that wouldn't interest me), what was surprising with my partner is I fell in love with him when I thought I was a lesbian because I literally had no attraction to men at the time and only towards women. Very confusing. But possibly, if I could get past the jealousy and insecurities I have, maybe I could be great friends or even more with a future partner of his if she wanted that too? Emotional closeness to me is important, and if I could have friendship with his lovers even if there wasn't anything more (I quite likely wouldn't be attracted to his lovers/partners) that would mean a lot. I don't expect that anything more would happen than possibly friendship, as I'm aware that while one person might be attracted to another, they won't necessarily be attracted to that person's partner.

I guess I have so many questions that also fuel the fears and anxiety (that sick feeling). Like how would it work? What if he picked a right crazy bitch like Mags (woman mentioned above) who tried to destroy our relationship? What if she doesn't like me and doesn't want to be friends (ouch that would hurt!)? Or wanted/demanded to have him all to herself and he went along with it because of the blindness that tends to come with being in a new relationship? What if he paid her a lot more attention than to me? What if he found he wasn't attracted to me any more because of being attracted to someone else, or didn't want to have sex with me any more but wanted to bonk her like crazy? What happens during the NRE if he opens his mouth and says some really tactless things, which he's bound to do because he's not that great with being tactful? What if I grew attached to one of his lovers/partners and then they broke up? What if the other person gets heart broken at some point and goes crazy on us? I fear for any consequences for our children if someone decided to go nuts... And a big one for me is what if he had children with someone else? :(

I sort of am a bit crazy when it comes to my children. I was really hurt by the fact he contacted the other woman on the day our son was born (hours after it in fact). I know he was only contacting her on t hat day not to hurt me but rather because he wanted to share his joy, but knowing that doesn't really help because it was a very difficult day for me. Our son was born 6 weeks early and had to be rushed off to the neonatal intensive care unit because he had difficulty breathing and low blood sugar levels and I was very, very upset because I couldn't be with him and was worried about him dying.

All what ifs, I know, and it's silly of me to be so fearful of what could happen. I'm very much a planner, I like to be prepared and know what I'm jumping into before I leap, whereas he's more of a "we'll deal with whatever when it happens". Here I am once again really emotional when I was doing great last night after our talk. It's quite confusing trying to work through my emotions.

Does that make sense or am I speaking jibberish? :( :confused: :(
 
kdt26417 said:
Greetings Bluesun,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

It is perfectly alright for you to post in the blogs section, just to let you know.

I think you have done a kind, wonderful, compassionate thing in sacrificing your dream of a blissful monogamous marriage for the hard, scary road of polyamory. Your fiancé is very lucky to have you.

I encourage you to do lots of reading and posting on this site. Let us know of your thoughts, questions, and concerns. The Poly Relationships Corner is the best place to go to get advice and answers, but people can post helpful comments on your blog thread as well.

There are some really good poly books on the market right now and you might want to consider investing in a few of them. Examples:

  • "Opening Up: a guide to creating and sustaining open relationships," by Tristan Taormino.
  • "More than Two: a practical guide to ethical polyamory," by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert.
  • "Polyamory: the new love without limits," by Deborah Anapol.
  • "The Polyamorists Next Door: inside multiple-partner relationships and families," by Elisabeth Sheff.
Reading these books will help remove some of the mystery from polyamory and as we tend to fear the unknown, increasing familiarity with polyamory may help you to feel not as frightened about it. Reading these books may also inspire you to start new topics here on Polyamory.com, ask fresh new questions, and get new insights from the great variety of members here.

I hope we can help in some small way to make your poly (or poly/mono) journey a little easier. If you start a blog here, post a link in this intro thread leading to that blog, and I'll follow that link.

I'm pleased and honored that you could join us.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
Click to expand...

Thank you kdt26417 for your warm welcome. I'll post up in the blog section later today when I have the time and energy, it will be good to have somewhere I can organise my thoughts and watch how I grow through this process. Will definitely get those books when I can afford it, and will probably read them to my partner. I'll have a look and see if you can get them as audio books. Thank you so much for the support and help. :)
 
Re (from Bluesun):
"What if he picked a right crazy bitch like Mags who tried to destroy our relationship?"
Click to expand...

He would break up with her -- I hope. You'd have to discuss your concerns with him and try to reach a state of agreement.

Re:
"What if she doesn't like me and doesn't want to be friends?"
Click to expand...

While being friends can help a lot, it's not a requirement between metamours for successful poly. Being courteous to each other suffices. I know that doesn't mend the ouch you would feel.

Re:
"What if she wanted/demanded to have him all to herself and he went along with it because of the blindness that tends to come with being in a new relationship?"
Click to expand...

You'd want to point out to him that he is in the honeymoon phase and can't expect himself to see things as clearly as he normally would. A difficult conversation to have, but again, you'd want to try to reach a state of agreement.

Re:
"What if he paid her a lot more attention than to me?"
Click to expand...

Not a problem *if* whatever attention you're getting suffices for your needs. If it doesn't, you tell him, "I need more attention," and perhaps suggest some specifics [e.g. (x) days/week, (x) hours/day, etc.]. Focus on what *you* need -- not what *she's* getting (and who's "winning" the attention contest).

Re:
"What if he found he wasn't attracted to me anymore because of being attracted to someone else?"
Click to expand...

This seldom happens, although NRE makes the new person seem extra bright and shiny. You're inclined (for now at least) to be monogamous, and yet I'd bet you could look at pictures of two different people and still say, "They're both attractive."

But if it did happen, it's something that could just as easily happen if he tried to stay monogamous, don't you think?

Re:
"What if he didn't want to have sex with me anymore but wanted to bonk her like crazy?"
Click to expand...

That sounds like NRE hard at work. A poly-friendly sex therapist might be your best bet at this point, although things are likely to return to a better state after the NRE wears off. They say NRE tends to last between six and 24 months.

Re:
"What happens during the NRE if he opens his mouth and says some really tactless things, which he's bound to do because he's not that great with being tactful?"
Click to expand...

You get hurt, you tell him you're hurt, you explain why, he says, "Oops," and, "I'm sorry, can I make it up to you," he makes efforts to do better, you (hopefully) forgive, and the two of you carry on.

Re:
"What if I grew attached to one of his lovers/partners and then they broke up?"
Click to expand...

Couldn't you continue to have your same relationship with that (now-ex) lover/partner?

Re:
"What if the other person gets heartbroken at some point and goes crazy on us?"
Click to expand...

You separate them from your life as quickly as possible, change the locks, get a restraining order if you can, and wait for their craziness to get distracted by a new target. Not fun to go through, but sometimes these things happen in life.

Re:
"What if he had children with someone else?"
Click to expand...

You'd have to deal with that emotional turmoil when that happened. Of course it would help if he wouldn't do that without your consent, if he'd use birth control with the said someone else.

---

Forgive me if I came across as trying to shoot all your questions down. My intention was the opposite: to give you some reassurance that these questions do have answers.

Other members would answer differently than I would.

With warm regards,
Kevin T.
 
Good; I had hoped it would prove helpful.
 
Working on relationship fundamentals

Hi Bluesun,

I'm new to the group, although in a polyamorous relationship for only the past 5 or 6 years with my wife of 32 years. (My intro covers a few more of the details)

You're in the throes of an incredibly difficult, emotional upheaval, yet you've made an astounding, loving and non-judgmental response by communicating with your spouse and telling him that you understand who he is. I quite frankly find that remarkable. A good place to start.

A strong relationship, poly or otherwise, is predicated on trust, honesty and mutual respect. The importance of these things for you are particularly important given the rough childhood and dysfunctional family dynamics you went through. It seems to me that the two of you working towards reestablishing these fundamental tenets is the first order of business. While deciding the nuts and bolts about how to specifically conduct a poly relationship (how much time he spends with someone else, when, what, where, etc, etc) are vitally important, doing so without first establishing a strong foundation may very well be perilous and undermine even the best, most thorough poly agreements and understandings. Taking the time to deeply and honestly rebuild the foundation of trust and respect, even if it means he might need to pull back from having other relationships for some period of time, may make all the difference. There is no reason that this should, or actually can be, rushed to meet some arbitrary deadline. You need and are entitled to have the time you need to breath, think, assimilate and communicate. Flow from that to everything else.

Hope this is helpful,

David
 
I wanted to say that you are a compassionate person and one your partner is lucky to have in his life. I'm deeply impressed by the understanding that you are showing to your partner.

I hope you don't mind - please ignore me if you do - but I saw a couple of comments about raising your children that I thought worth mentioning. You have said a couple of times that you would feel your time had been wasted if you spent years raising your fiance's children only to have him leave you for another woman.

Raising children is, so far as I can see, one of the great journeys a person can make in their life. The opportunity to share in the growth and development of another human being, the building of a bond with them that will shape their life and time to share love in a deep way. I don't think that time could/should be seen as time wasted regardless of what happens in any romantic relationship.

The other thing that jumped out at me was that you have said that you are raising the children? Is it the case that you are finding yourself doing the bulk of the child care and running a household work? Is yours one of the many households where the woman runs herself ragged and tired to care for everybody while the man goes to work where he spends time with other adults and spends his time outside of work having affairs/playing golf/fishing/rebuilding cars (delete activity as applicable)? If so, maybe you need to take a step back from home making and do things outside of your home and family and your fiance needs to step up and do the work to maintain the relationships he already has (those with you and your children) rather than worrying about new ones.

I see you here doing lots of thinking and reading, considering changing yourself dramatically to avoid putting constraints on your fiance. I wonder what work is he doing? Remember that he has been in the habit of lying to those closest to him for years and years. He's been in the habit of cheating on agreements that he freely made also for years and years. These are not habits that are likely to go away just because you've started talking. If it was as easy as that to change unwanted habits, nobody would do anything that they would rather they didn't.

Is your fiance seeking counselling or other help to get over his bad habits? If not, I'd be wary.

I'd be wary also of his inability to control himself when the opportunity to have an affair arises. Is he seeking help for it. That sort of compulsion can be hard to deal with but it is very damaging for those around the person who can't control themselves. Understanding somebody else's wants and feelings is one thing. Opening yourself up to be repeatedly hurt by them is another. People who find themselves unable to control damaging impulses are not terribly safe to be around.

I would be understanding and sympathetic if I had a friend who was addicted to heroin. I would try to provide a listening ear and any support I could. I would not give them unsupervised access to my home or give them my bank account details. I would not blame somebody in the grip of a compulsion for doing something damaging but I would try to avoid being in the path of it.

Be aware that your fiance has a ton of work to do on himself. The work is not just for you.

IP
 
Hello, Bluesun. I'm newish here so can't give you the answers from experience that others can.

I had many of the questions you had, as I am the partner of a loving and lovely polyamorous women. I found an awful lot of those questions were answered by reading the book "More than Two" or if they were not answered a route to resolution or management strategy was identified. I got the e-book version from Amazon and it only cost a few Euros/dollars.
 
Thank you all for your replies, I'm sorry I didn't reply back last night but him and I spent another couple of hours talking and I ended up crying and bleh. :(
 
polyamoryinmotion said:
Hi Bluesun,

I'm new to the group, although in a polyamorous relationship for only the past 5 or 6 years with my wife of 32 years. (My intro covers a few more of the details)

You're in the throes of an incredibly difficult, emotional upheaval, yet you've made an astounding, loving and non-judgmental response by communicating with your spouse and telling him that you understand who he is. I quite frankly find that remarkable. A good place to start.

A strong relationship, poly or otherwise, is predicated on trust, honesty and mutual respect. The importance of these things for you are particularly important given the rough childhood and dysfunctional family dynamics you went through. It seems to me that the two of you working towards reestablishing these fundamental tenets is the first order of business. While deciding the nuts and bolts about how to specifically conduct a poly relationship (how much time he spends with someone else, when, what, where, etc, etc) are vitally important, doing so without first establishing a strong foundation may very well be perilous and undermine even the best, most thorough poly agreements and understandings. Taking the time to deeply and honestly rebuild the foundation of trust and respect, even if it means he might need to pull back from having other relationships for some period of time, may make all the difference. There is no reason that this should, or actually can be, rushed to meet some arbitrary deadline. You need and are entitled to have the time you need to breath, think, assimilate and communicate. Flow from that to everything else.

Hope this is helpful,

David
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Thank you David for your response. I will have to read your intro! :D

He has said he's going to pull back from any involvement with other women until I feel completely ready for him to take the next step. He's also said he's going to be honest from now on, that it's hard for him given he's found it easier in the past just to sweep things under the carpet and just say what he thinks the other person wants to hear.

More ants came crawling out from under the wood work last night (i.e. blowjob from someone I had a gut feeling *something had gone down* but he had previously denied they were anything but friends, nope nothing going on here, nosirree, you are CRAZY m'lady to even suspect something fishy), but it was good to hear some honesty even though it was essentially it was like realizing you've been betrayed again and realizing you can't really get upset about it because he probably would retreat into lying to me again. I ended up bawling my eyes out because in the last few days he's been more honest with me than he has ever been in all the years. I felt like I didn't know the man sitting before me at all. It's like having to get to know someone for the first time as they really are and wondering if you can survive a relationship with this person. Feels like a bloody nightmare some days. :(

I've given him my all, I tell him everything - when I talk to my male friend in Scotland I read him my emails and certainly don't flirt with this guy behind my partner's back and deny my partner's reality. He knows who I am, I haven't hidden anything from him and EVEN exposed to him sides of myself that were very difficult to talk about with anyone before we moved in together because I didn't want him to walk into a relationship "blind". I had enough respect for him as a human being to let him know about my not-so-nice sides, like my self-harm scars from 15+ years of self-harming (started at 5 years of age but have been clean for a few years now even when SHTF repeatedly YAY!) and told him I have had a long history of eating disorders (anorexia type two) that I've had to work really hard on conquering and still have bad days. These were two areas I had an awful lot of shame about and I was so scared in telling him because I had been sure he wouldn't want me after finding out. And still did the honourable thing. But here I go sounding like I'm preaching from my high horse and acting superior, when I'm not him and have not lived his life so I can't expect him to be exactly like me.

He couldn't understand why I was upset with him flirting with other women online and I had to explain that it hurt me (a) because these things lead to affairs very easily, especially when you are romancing the other person and talking sexual stuff, (b) he knew it worried and hurt me what with his track record and yet had not stopped doing it, (c) he had stopped saying any of those lovely things to me in a long time and yet was quite willing to say them to people he barely knew, (d) I don't believe he was merely doing it just for fun but rather also to see if he could push things any further with any of them (which he ended up saying he was trying to but "knew it wasn't going to go anywhere serious"), (e) a lot of the flirting happened after we would have a fight and so we weren't getting anywhere because he would just retreat into "fantasy women online world" rather than deal with things.

He can't understand why I haven't gotten over his affair yet, it's been a year, surely I would be completely over it... I tried explaining that of course it's not over for me, he's been evasive ever since I confronted him about it, not just evasive, but frustrated with me for wanting to talk about it, expecting some honesty, wanting to work through it so we can move on. I asked him to think about his best friend and to imagine me having had an affair with him a year ago and how he would have felt about it.

Long story short, we are going to keep working towards sticking together according to terms we work out together that definitely won't be traditional or pleasing in the eyes of society. We may or may not end up staying together, we may very well end up living as co-parents who are also friends. That's still a possibility. For me the deal breaker is honesty, I can't live with someone who continues to be dishonest with me any more. He has to choose to be honest, and we both need to work out a plan that makes it easier for him to feel safe enough to be honest (he has an avoidant sort of personality).
 
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InfinitePossibility said:
I wanted to say that you are a compassionate person and one your partner is lucky to have in his life. I'm deeply impressed by the understanding that you are showing to your partner.
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Thankk you InfinitePossibility for your reply. :)

I hope you don't mind - please ignore me if you do - but I saw a couple of comments about raising your children that I thought worth mentioning. You have said a couple of times that you would feel your time had been wasted if you spent years raising your fiance's children only to have him leave you for another woman.

Raising children is, so far as I can see, one of the great journeys a person can make in their life. The opportunity to share in the growth and development of another human being, the building of a bond with them that will shape their life and time to share love in a deep way. I don't think that time could/should be seen as time wasted regardless of what happens in any romantic relationship.
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Yes, I see what you're saying, I actually phrased it wrong. Sounds very selfish.

I love my children deeply and find raising them very rewarding - something very special (life-changing). What I was trying to get across was I have this fear that I will spend my entire life being mother and missus (doing all the work) while he goes off having fun only to discard me at the end of the day anyway. I'm at what they call "my prime" and he's had his prime already, I just don't want to get burned at the end of the day and look back and think, "I've just wasted my life on him."

Raising our children would NOT be a waste of my life, I could raise our children on my own, got no qualms about that and would not regret raising them on my own if it came down to that. It would however seem to be cruel if I ended up pouring my life into this man (and our family) without the reciprocation or effort on his part only to be spewed out when given it my all.

The other thing that jumped out at me was that you have said that you are raising the children? Is it the case that you are finding yourself doing the bulk of the child care and running a household work? Is yours one of the many households where the woman runs herself ragged and tired to care for everybody while the man goes to work where he spends time with other adults and spends his time outside of work having affairs/playing golf/fishing/rebuilding cars (delete activity as applicable)? If so, maybe you need to take a step back from home making and do things outside of your home and family and your fiance needs to step up and do the work to maintain the relationships he already has (those with you and your children) rather than worrying about new ones.
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Yes, I'm raising the children, doing the bulk of the child care and running a household as well as working (from home). He also works from home, some days long hours and others not, and when he gets right into it finds it difficult to pull back.

I see you here doing lots of thinking and reading, considering changing yourself dramatically to avoid putting constraints on your fiance. I wonder what work is he doing? Remember that he has been in the habit of lying to those closest to him for years and years. He's been in the habit of cheating on agreements that he freely made also for years and years. These are not habits that are likely to go away just because you've started talking. If it was as easy as that to change unwanted habits, nobody would do anything that they would rather they didn't.

Is your fiance seeking counselling or other help to get over his bad habits? If not, I'd be wary.
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He is trying to be 100% honest with me, dishonesty is a bad habit he's practiced for years and years and so it'll probably take a lot of work on his part to be honest even when the consequences could possibly be not all that nice. He has not gone to counselling and it would be difficult for him to do so given where we live. I will take these thoughts into consideration, so thank you for your feedback.

I'd be wary also of his inability to control himself when the opportunity to have an affair arises. Is he seeking help for it. That sort of compulsion can be hard to deal with but it is very damaging for those around the person who can't control themselves. Understanding somebody else's wants and feelings is one thing. Opening yourself up to be repeatedly hurt by them is another. People who find themselves unable to control damaging impulses are not terribly safe to be around.

I would be understanding and sympathetic if I had a friend who was addicted to heroin. I would try to provide a listening ear and any support I could. I would not give them unsupervised access to my home or give them my bank account details. I would not blame somebody in the grip of a compulsion for doing something damaging but I would try to avoid being in the path of it.

Be aware that your fiance has a ton of work to do on himself. The work is not just for you.

IP
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I see what you mean and I'm trying to work out with him what the best options are for us in this whole situation. I also worry about him having impulse control issues and brought it up last night. I think her probably has a very low tolerance for discomfort and he has told me he's only had affairs when they "presented themselves to him". :mad: As though affairs just plop out of the sky and into one's lap. I brought up the issue that I'm afraid of getting an STD because I don't think he would be able to control himself if the situation arose where *she wants him to not use a condom* and/or *he didn't feel like it and believed she was clean*. And I don't think at this point that I can trust him if he told me he did use a condom because he has betrayed me and others in the past.

In fact, I think I might ask him to start wearing a condom and both of us get tested for STDs again. :mad: :(

I had to tell him last night that most STDs are silent (don't produce any or many symptoms at least in the beginning) and so you won't know you've got one until much much later. That STDs are particularly damaging in women and can even be dangerous (increases risks for ectopic pregnancy). Of course he had no idea and was shocked, especially when I told him chlamydia and gonorrhoea is on the rise in our country.
 
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zigzag said:
Hello, Bluesun. I'm newish here so can't give you the answers from experience that others can.

I had many of the questions you had, as I am the partner of a loving and lovely polyamorous women. I found an awful lot of those questions were answered by reading the book "More than Two" or if they were not answered a route to resolution or management strategy was identified. I got the e-book version from Amazon and it only cost a few Euros/dollars.
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Thank you zigzag, I've actually bookmarked it so I can buy it soon. :D
 
Keep us posted on how things are going ... Sounds like there's a lot of work yet to be done.
 
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