Screwing with my own head...

K

KC43

New member
I've blogged a little about this in my blog thread, but I know I'm more likely to get advice or feedback here.

First off... I have depression and anxiety. And I'm in the northeastern US, where out of the past 3 weeks or more, I think we've only had 2 days of sunshine. We've also had over 6 FEET of snow in that amount of time. The weather is feeding into my depression, and it's all impacting my perception of this situation. So I'm here in large part to get a reality check in terms of whether I'm seeing things as they might actually be, or seeing them through a filter of depression and negative emotions.

As my signature says, I'm married to Hubby and in a relationship with S2. Both men have told me they don't want to see anyone else, so I was under the impression that our V was closed. And in the past, S2 has assured me that he's happy with our relationship as is. But today on S2's dating site profile (which he knows I read periodically), he'd changed "I'm in a polyamorous relationship" to "I'm in an *open* polyamorous relationship" (emphasis mine).

Because of his schedule and my kids, we've set up regular date nights so there isn't a constant "Can you get together then? No... how about then?" But this past weekend when we were together, he said something that implied that he doesn't like having the regularly scheduled times, and he said straight out that sometimes he doesn't want me there on weekends because he wants some free time. (He has his sons on the weekends that I don't see him.) He also said that he's fine with *me* as I am, but that the relationship is sometimes stressful for him because he feels like he has to constantly watch what he says and to whom so the wrong person doesn't find out.

It's a relief to have him say he's fine with me, to some extent. But I feel guilty about his stress over the relationship--even though he's chosen to be in this, and he said right now the relationship is worth being a little stressed about. And although I completely understand sometimes wanting a free weekend with no one around, and I've felt that way myself, I wonder if that's his way of starting to cut down the amount of time we spend together.

Given that he's changed his profile to being in an *open* relationship, I also have to wonder whether he wants to cut down our time together so he'll have more freedom to seek another partner. He promised me that if he ever decided he wanted to look for someone else, he would tell me up front (as in, before he actually started looking). But I don't have a lot of faith in people's promises, and sometimes he forgets what he's said.

Because of our weather, I wasn't able to see him last night for our usual Tuesday. This is a kid weekend, meaning we should be seeing each other tomorrow night as well. The forecast the other day sounded like we were going to get another major storm tomorrow, so I'd told him I wouldn't be able to make it. Next Tuesday, he has Spikes and Beads because it's school vacation week, so we'll be missing our usual date again. Meaning that S2 and I won't see each other again until the 21st, a two week gap. And he doesn't seem to care; at least, when I pointed that out to him, his only response was "Yep." The forecast for tomorrow has now changed; we're only supposed to get 1-3 inches of snow in a 10-hour period. I would be able to safely drive to his place and home.

Because this is an insanely long post, for the sake of clarity:
1. I don't know whether I should talk to him about our relationship in terms of whether we're an open V or a closed one; what he considers "open" to mean; and whether he's looking for another partner. I'm afraid talking to him might make him feel pressured or like I'm asking for more of a commitment than he currently wants to give. On the other hand, a relationship doesn't work if the participants aren't on the same page, and right now, I don't know if we're even in the same *book*.

2. I don't know whether I should talk to him about the things I'm feeling hurt by, since the last time I brought up something that I felt hurt about, he said, "Well, I'm a guy, and we don't get into all that emotional stuff."

3. I don't know whether I should tell him that, because of the change in the weather, we could get together tomorrow night after all. And if I did bring it up, I don't know whether it should be "Hey, the forecast changed, do you want to get together?" or "Hey, the forecast changed and driving won't be bad" and wait for *him* to suggest getting together.

And honestly... with the anxiety I've been feeling about being too pushy, or leaning on him too much, or in general just fucking up, and the fact that I keep overthinking everything... I don't know whether I should just quit while we're both ahead, because even when I don't share any of this stuff with him, just thinking it makes me feel like I'm being unfair to him.
 
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From what I've read of your blog it sounds like S2 gets what he wants out of this relationship, at least what he currently wants. You could put it out there that if he ever wants a weekend off that all he has to do is to let you know and you'll be fine with that. Just from a male perspective I would think he's feeling any pressure from you and that pressure is just something you're perceiving in your head. He will let you know if you are getting to be too much for him.
 
Thanks, WhatToDo. I'm more concerned about me wanting more from the relationship than he does, and having him feel pressured because of that. When he mentioned the weekend off thing, I did tell him that I was okay with it as long as I knew in advance. He knows I don't deal well with sudden changes in plan. Usually when I see him, I ask if we're still on for the next time we're scheduled to get together, so we agreed that if he wants a weekend off, he'll tell me the preceding Tuesday when I ask. (Unless it's an emergency.)

But what the part of me that admittedly may be reading too much into this is afraid of, is that he wants some weekends off because he doesn't want to see me and/or does want to find another partner.
 
KC,

I think you need to set some realistic expectations here for your relationship with S2 AND your husband since in your blog you have had some issues about both relationships.

This S2 fellow i believe has told you he is basically monogamous but that he had a bad break up to his marriage or previous relationship and that right now he is fine accepting the limited amount of time you spend with him. You should not be stressed about your relationship with him because unless he changes his stripes it is going to end at some time and you should know that. You are not being truthful to yourself if you actually think this is a forever thing.

As far as your husband goes, i believe there was a period you were stating you were thinking about you and him breaking up. It also seems like he goes from Ok with the poly thing to not so sure.

So I do not understand why you are upset what he puts on his dating site. At some point he will most likely meet someone he likes, and he friends, job, and family know nothing about the true nature of your relationship. Not a good omen for a permanant thing.

And by the way, if you ran into a hot guy you really wanted to go out with, would you turn it down. if there answer to that one is no, then you have no right to question any interactions he has with other women.

Enjoy it while it lasts but do not bet the ranch on it.
 
That's how nate is, he likes seeing people on his terms and wouldn't want a schedule or even expectations of a weekly date.
 
Sexyserb, first of all, unless you have magical powers, you can no more say that this relationship with S2 *won't* last than I can say it *will.* And no, he hasn't said he's basically monogamous. He now says he isn't sure; when we met, he said he was polyamorous.

"Forever" is an illusion anyway. I'm talking about what's going on NOW. At THIS moment in time.

I'm upset about what S2 put on his profile because of the implication that he might be looking for another partner, something he promised he would talk to me about before he did. It isn't because he might be looking, it's because if he *is*, he broke his promise to discuss it with me before making any move to look. (And that was a promise he *chose* to make.) If he's looking and finds someone he likes, more power to him. If he *isn't* looking, he isn't finding anyone at this point.

And YES, I would turn down advances from anyone else. I'm not interested in anyone else, I'm not looking for or meeting anyone else, and from discussions with both men, I had gotten the impression that they weren't either. S2 has the right to change his mind about that, but a relationship doesn't work without communication; if he changes his mind I would appreciate that he respect me enough to keep his promise to communicate with me about any such changes.

Hubby's and my marriage has no bearing on this situation with S2. This morning, I discussed the current issue with Hubby, who said, "S2 makes you happy, so I think you should continue the relationship and talk to him about this, because I like seeing you happy." The problems Hubby and I have are neither caused by, worsened by, or related in any way to my being polyamorous.

Again, it isn't about me being jealous or questioning his interactions. It's a matter of him and me having made certain agreements and promises. If I'm perceiving some of the current things correctly, he is breaking some of those agreements and promises. *That* is my problem.

Inyourendo, I know some people do prefer it that way. But S2 and I have had the weekly scheduled dates since October; he agreed to it at that time. If he wants to change it, I'm okay with that, but again... communication. I will discuss it with him and make changes if he feels strongly about it; I will not accept him deciding to make changes and going ahead and doing so without talking to me.
 
KC43 said:
If he wants to change it, I'm okay with that, but again... communication.
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My husband is can be the worlds worst communicators, but it took 20 years before he would admit it to himself. He "thought" he was communicating, he always "claimed" to be open to talking about things first, etc. In truth, instead of talking about things, he would do, then blame me for being controlling when I'd be upset when he didn't communicate. He'd get angry and nasty when I claimed he didn't tell me something - in his mind, the fact that he did or said something else "implied", therefore told me whatever it was. Sometimes, in my husbands world, changing a fb profile would be giving me a heads up. There's a reason my hair is grey and it's not all the kids.

Communication take practice and it's different with each person. Deep breath! Talk about these things, but make sure to use "I" phrases. "I freaked a bit when I saw you changed your profile, I imagined all kinds of worst case scenario and hidden meanings. Can you please clarify your thoughts, intentions, etc on this?"

As far as the structure - TALK about it. Ask what IS working and what can be changed to make him happier and yet maintain some structure. Talk, but don't try and find a solution, let him offer solutions. Although you might have to play 20 questions to get to the why?
 
KC43 said:
But what the part of me that admittedly may be reading too much into this is afraid of, is that he wants some weekends off because he doesn't want to see me and/or does want to find another partner.
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Well, he told you directly that he wants more time to himself some weekends, so I would say that, yes, he means he doesn't want to see you on those days -- or were you wondering that he doesn't want to see you at all anymore? It would seem to me that that kind of fear is unfounded.

I can understand his wanting more personal time to himself if every weekend since late last year he's had to be "on" for someone - either you or his kids. Maybe it started to feel a little too much because he realized a little more spontaneity now and then would allow him to putter around, get together with friends, or be lazy and do nothing if he wants.

As to the change to his dating status, maybe "open" means something different to him than it does to you. I mean, he might've changed it to reflect that you guys are open with each other about things and not have anything to do with fidelity or not. Who knows? You should ask him about it, I think, but make sure you ask in a way that isn't accusatory nor charged with emotion. "Hey, I happened to notice you changed your status on [dating site]. I am curious why you added the word "open" to it - is there a reason? Since you did that, and asked for more weekends to yourself, I've been wondering if you are thinking about dating other people." The more you keep turning it over in your mind, the more difficult and wrapped up in anxiety your questioning will be. Keep it simple and direct, and get it over with. Stop walking on eggshells around him.
 
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KC43 said:
3. I don't know whether I should tell him that, because of the change in the weather, we could get together tomorrow night after all. And if I did bring it up, I don't know whether it should be "Hey, the forecast changed, do you want to get together?" or "Hey, the forecast changed and driving won't be bad" and wait for *him* to suggest getting together.
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I think you should be direct as possible here. "I originally canceled our plans because I didn't want to drive in that weather, but it looks like it will be fine. Have you made other plans or do you want to get together?" If you wait for him to suggest it, you're just setting yourself up for unnecessary anxiety. Don't be passive-aggressive. Say what you want. You can't expect him to read your mind.

I totally get it, by the way. It sounds as though we're a lot alike - I also suffer from depression and anxiety, especially in the winter, and my first instinct is to imagine relationship scenarios that may or may not be true and ruminating about them rather than just being direct about what I want and need. This stuff is really hard for me. But you've gotten some great advice from others in this thread, and I think you should really think about it.
 
thirteenth said:
I think you should be direct as possible here. "I originally canceled our plans because I didn't want to drive in that weather, but it looks like it will be fine. Have you made other plans or do you want to get together?" If you wait for him to suggest it, you're just setting yourself up for unnecessary anxiety. Don't be passive-aggressive. Say what you want. You can't expect him to read your mind.
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I think this is good, but if you really want to say what you want, I'd change that last sentence to "Have you made other plans yet? I'd like to see you if you haven't."
 
If I can recall this isn't the first time you've had an issue with something on his dating profile. I know you've said that you like to read but maybe that isn't healthy for you. Trust him to tell you if he wants to change your relationship structure.
 
Hi KC43,

In general, the thing to do here (IMO) is be very clear and direct toward S2 about what you want to know.

Start by driving right to the heart of the matter. "If you were thinking about dating someone new, would you be willing to let me know about that?" ... and if his answer is, "Yes," then your next statement would be: "*Are* you thinking about dating someone new?"

Then ask about the Facebook status. "I was confused when I saw that you changed your Facebook relationship status to 'open.' By 'open,' did you mean that you're thinking about dating someone new? Can you talk to me about what that status means?"

Don't even mention your emotional state to him at this point. Right now, the objective is to get you and him on the same page. After you're *sure* you're on the same page, then you can start talking about how you feel.

Definitely say, "Hey, the forecast changed, do you want to get together?" Do *not* say, "Hey, the forecast changed and driving won't be bad," and wait for *him* to suggest getting together. Never codify your wants and needs when talking to an intimate partner. Always drive right to the heart of the matter.

As for feeling like you're being too pushy, or leaning on him too much, or in general just fucking up, or that you're overthinking things ... the overthinking is the only "crime" you're "guilty" of here. That's probably where the weather is combining with your depression and anxiety and pushing you into a state of panic. Take a deep breath and assure yourself that you are a strong person, that you can hear the truth and deal with it, that it's okay to ask your loved ones for what you want and need. Maybe they'll say no, and that's okay too. But it's still okay for you to ask. In unmistakable terms.

Sure it's possible he could get all cross and defensive and criticize you for asking him these things, and maybe that'll trigger your anxiety and make you feel like you're fucking up, but you've got to be strong and take a deep breath and know that it is fair and reasonable for you to ask these questions. Cause I say it is! :)

You need to know where you stand with him, that's the bottom line. So find out.

And give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he forgot that he was going to tell you about any relationship status change, or like SNeacail was suggesting, maybe in his mind changing his Facebook status *is* giving you a heads-up. We humans are far to quick to assume and jump to conclusions. Resist that temptation. Go right to the source instead. What one person thinks something means, can be very different from what another person thinks it means.

Those are my thoughts anyways.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Honey men are not mind readers and to not take hints.

If you want to know something ask directly.

If you want something ask directly do not beat around the bush.

Stop over thinking things.
 
SNeacail, thanks. If I bring something up, S2 is usually good about communicating, but it's sometimes hard to figure out how to bring things up to him so he understands that I need to communicate about it vs. just mentioning something at random.

nycindie, I meant was he saying he wanted some weekends free *because* he didn't want to see me, or was he saying he wanted some weekends free (thereby not seeing me) *because* he wanted time to himself/wanted to be able to make other plans/something else. In other words, was his primary reason having more time for himself, or was his primary goal not seeing *me* specifically.

Thirteenth, exactly... depression and anxiety mess with perception, and when I'm in that mindset, it's way too easy to catastrophize and jump to the worst conclusion.

Dagferi, I wish it was as easy as just saying "I won't overthink anymore." It isn't. I work to counteract the negative thoughts and the overthinking, but it's work, because overthinking things isn't a conscious *choice*, it's a symptom of the mental health issues. But I am trying.

Kevin, thank you. He has already told me he will let me know if he's even *considering* looking for someone else, but it might be good to clarify that. As for the fucking things up... I'm concerned that I'm doing that *because* I'm overthinking and being insecure and stuff.

I did text him yesterday and mention that the weather wasn't looking bad, and I asked if he was up for getting together tonight or would rather hold off. He said it was up to me and that if I wanted to come out, I should be careful on the roads and bring "my" bass guitar. ("My" in quotes because it's actually his bass, but he claims I'm "renting to own it.")
 
Mal loves the fact that I open conversations with " I think I'm overthinking things..." (when I have been). Because he has no idea most of th time what I'm thinking unless I tell him.

My advice, fwiw, is tell him you are overthinking and it is causing you stress, so you want to clear somethings up with him.

Sometimes it is hard, Mal told me once (after I opened a conversation that way) that I was right, one of the 'worse' options was true. But it was still better to know than to worry.
 
KC43 said:
I wish it was as easy as just saying "I won't overthink anymore." It isn't. I work to counteract the negative thoughts and the overthinking, but it's work, because overthinking things isn't a conscious *choice*, it's a symptom of the mental health issues. But I am trying.
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I don't know if this helps, KC43, but I use visualization to counteract my overthinking. If it's something I want to look at later, I'll imagine opening a file cabinet, putting the "thought" in a manila folder and placing the folder at the very back of the file cabinet, where it's accessible for later but not at the forefront of my mind. If it's an unconstructive thought that I want to wipe from my mind, I imagine putting it in a bubble, releasing the bubble, and then popping it/destroying the bubble and the thought. Or, I'll imagine writing it down on a piece of paper and then throw the paper into a fire & watch it burn. Sometimes I have to run through the exercise multiple times to get rid of the thought. The easiest technique I use is a STOP sign. Every time I start to think the thought/s, I visualize a stop sign. It takes practice but I've found it helpful.

ETA: If it's a really persistent thought/issue, I've even been known to actually write it down on paper and then burn it. Something about watching the paper burn helps release me from the overthinking.
 
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I am sorry you struggle.

FWIW, I agree with you. You are cranking your own self up a bit here.

I think you could narrow your attention down instead of expanding it and spinning "what if this? what if that?" clouds that lead to you feeling out of sorts. Don't take on so much. Keep it focused.

Behavior wise what has happened in chronological order?

  1. He previously promised that if he ever decided he wanted to look for someone else, he would tell you up front (as in, before he actually started looking).
  2. You noticed his profile status changed to "open polyamorous relationship." You did not get a heads up in the way you wanted/expected.
  3. You don't have a lot of faith in people's promises, and sometimes he forgets what he's said.
  4. You would like clarification from him so you can KNOW you both are on the same page.

What is it that you want from the conversation?

  • You want to talk to him about your relationship in terms of whether it is an open V or a closed one; what he considers "open" to mean; and whether he's looking for another partner. You want to be on the same page / in the loop on that.
  • You want to assure him that you are no pressuring him or looking for more commitment than he wants to do.
  • You want his assurance that it is ok for you to process your emotional stuff with him, even though he himself doesn't usually want to process his emotional stuff with others in the same way as you.
  • You also want to be assured that he doesn't think you are disloyal just because you worry and sometimes need to have the occasional "where are we now?" talk to make sure you are both still on the same page.

Those wants are all addressable in a conversation.

sometimes hard to figure out how to bring things up to him so he understands that I need to communicate about it vs. just mentioning something at random.
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How about some variation of...

"I have something important to share. Not like casual convo.

I'd like your undivided attention for 30 min with no interruptions or distractions from other stuff.

Could you be willing to to make an appointment for that with me? Could I email you a bullet list so the conversation stays on track and short?"​

It's nice to give people time to prepare and not "ambush" them with stuff. Then they come to the appointment prepared and not all "deer in the headlights." It doesn't have to be a huge deal. Just could be a touch more organized than casual convo.

Could make the time and space for it and when appointment time comes? Could get on with the conversation you want to be having so you can feel better. Could be more assertive and stop confusing "I have some needs right now" (the situation) with "I am just a clingy, needy person." (talking down about yourself to yourself.)

I get that it is uncomfortable and anxiety provoking for you right now to think about doing relationship management conversations with him. But it can get smoother with practice. Confidence is grown by DOING. Not by sitting around being silent.

This is an interpersonal skill to grow -- speaking up. Growth happens just outside the comfort zone. That's why it is growth. You stretch out into territory you were not in before.

You can do it.

GL!

Galagirl
 
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PinkPig, I like the visualization idea. Thank you! I've actually used almost that exact visualization (the filing cabinet thing) in my trauma recovery; it never occurred to me to try it with the overthinking as well.

GalaGirl, thank you. Your posts on this forum are always very clear. You've definitely identified what's going on and what I'm hoping to gain.

I agree with what you're saying, with a couple of points that I'm expressing for my own clarity, and not to dispute:

I can't email him. His only email account is work-based, and he's asked that I not send him anything there. I'm also not sure how he would respond to making an "appointment" to talk about this, given that one of his issues right now seems to be the idea of scheduling at all.

While I know that scheduling a time to talk might work for some... I've learned from experience with Hubby that with *him*, being told "I need to talk to you about our relationship" guarantees that he's going to be on edge and frustrated/annoyed before we even begin. He's also likely to avoid the conversation even if we have scheduled a time, which leads to *me* being on edge and frustrated. Either way, the discussion is unproductive and usually ends in an argument, because we're starting from a negative point.

With Hubby, at least, the best way is to wait until I'm sure he's not involved in something and say, "Could I have some time right now to talk about an issue I'm having with us?" and then immediately begin the conversation as soon as he agrees. Obviously S2 and Hubby are not the same person, but they do share a number of personality traits, so I'm concerned that S2 would respond the same way as Hubby if I tried to make an appointment.

You're definitely right about me conflating "having needs" with "being needy." And the problem is that the more I talk to him (and Hubby) about relationship issues, the more *difficult* it becomes, because I tend to view it as a cumulative thing and think "This is the fifth time I've had to talk to him about a concern I have, and sooner or later he's going to get sick of all these discussions." Which is a case of me needing to shift my thinking.
 
Thanks again for all the advice.

I saw S2 last night and asked if I could ask him a question that came from me overthinking. He said to go ahead, so I asked if he was still okay with our relationship as is.

He said he was, and that led into a discussion of most of my other concerns. I got the answers and reassurance I needed, and he said he felt better after talking because he wants us to communicate about the relationship. (He also told me that talking to him about it isn't pushy, it's necessary, because otherwise even if he has a concern, it doesn't occur to him to bring it up.)
 
Glad to hear it worked out fine in the end.

Next time you can just be up front and not stress about it.

Galagirl :)
 
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