Communication is Key......

A

aykess

New member
Hi y'all...

I know communication is key in ANY type of relationship, and definitely being Poly. I am struggling with my gf opening up and talking to me about her insecurities and feelings toward us. She tells me she loves me all the time, and I do believe that...Idk.

I know she's uncomfortable around my husband so I normally don't even invite her over when he's home anymore. She doesn't want to come to any family gatherings wether hubby is there or not, and I try not bringing it up anymore, but damnit I'm tired of falling more in love with her every day and not even being able to fully understand her.

I am a talker. I'll admit. I want to talk about feelings and get them all sorted out, rather than just shut down. She's opposite... She will just shut down and ignore and beat around the bush.

Question is, how would you deal about this? I will not push or pressure her into feeling a certain way or doing something she doesn't want to do... Just don't know if I should ask anymore (and worry I piss her off) Or stop asking her to do anything really...
 
A relationship without communication is like a ship without a rudder.

Have you communicated your concerns over the lack of communication she is doing or of her avoiding your husband?
 
I am sorry you struggle.

If your GF is not relating to you in satisfying ways... I can see where it gets frustrating. It's not easy to go around putting in effort and energy into a seeming black hole. :(


How I would deal with it? I'd let it go. :(

One-way relationship are not healthy to me. The only healthy examples I can think of are outgrown.

1) Babies. You input a lot, and it's a one-way street until they outgrow babyhood and become two-way relaters.
2) Sick people. You input because they are ill.
  • If acute illness/issue, they get well and return to two-way relating.
  • If chronic illness/issue, they own it and get themselves get under management/treatment. They can return to two-way relating as best the condition allows.
3) Elderly. They used to be two-way relaters but are near checking out. You input a lot to provide comfort and ease and it ends when they die.

You cannot provide the fuel for a 2 people thing to run. Your 100% effort is only 50% of the fuel required. "I love you" words are not enough -- there needs to be action like she's holding up her end of the stick too. Putting in her share of the fuel.

If she isn't? She isn't. You cannot make her. But you also do not have to stay in an unfulfilling relationship.

I'm tired of falling more in love with her every day and not even being able to fully understand her.
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If you want to stop falling in love with a clammed up person? You are tired of being in a one way relationship? You have brought it to her attention and she doesn't want to do anything about it? She won't seek care if the issue is something like depression?

Then you could stop interacting so much and allow the process of detachment to step in. You wait and time does its job.

You let it go and accept that you prefer two-way street interaction and you aren't going to get it here with her at this time. :(

Galagirl
 
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Byrd471 said:
A relationship without communication is like a ship without a rudder.

Have you communicated your concerns over the lack of communication she is doing or of her avoiding your husband?
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I totally agree 110%.

I have tried asking her and she usually says something along the lines of "she loves and just gets uncomfortable because she's scared of getting too close.." Or something like that. I don't think she understands I'm as serious as I am about is working. My husband, she chats with if he gets home and she's sti here, but wouldn't rather not all hangout. And I can't really say as I blame her.
 
GalaGirl

I totally get what you mean, that made perfect sense. We have taken some time apart before and every time we get back to being "us" it's because she wants to come back. I try not to talk to her first, ask her to come over, anything without her starting it. Mainly because I feel as if I am the one making most effort here. I can't imagine life without her, and she's told me before she wants me in her life no matter what...I just don't know how long I can keep doing it like this. We talk all the time and she is understanding of everything once I really put it out there and explain things, but until it gets to that point, I get nothing but hurt and shut out. Blah!
 
aykess said:
I totally agree 110%.

I have tried asking her and she usually says something along the lines of "she loves and just gets uncomfortable because she's scared of getting too close.." Or something like that. I don't think she understands I'm as serious as I am about is working. My husband, she chats with if he gets home and she's sti here, but wouldn't rather not all hangout. And I can't really say as I blame her.
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Fear of intimacy. Hm...

Well if that's the case, and as you say you are very serious about your relationhip, invite her to explore her fear, either with or without your help. Also, tell her as you told us all here, that you are OK with a serious relationship. A fear of intimacy will predicate any real communication from my experience.

Why can't you blame her for not wanting to hangout with your husband around?
 
Maybe give her 'More Than Two' or similar book to read? It's really hard to do poly well without being willing to communicate in some way. (Actually true for any relationship.) Perhaps reading that may help her understand she needs to communicate with you in some manner to be in a good relationship? And maybe she's not into face to face talking for *hours* but she might email you ideas and thoughts. She might be willing to communicate but not in a form you prefer. Might be worth exploring different communication styles.
 
"she loves and just gets uncomfortable because she's scared of getting too close.." Or something like that. I don't think she understands I'm as serious as I am about is working.
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Sounds like a self esteem thing to me.

The whole "I think I suck. So I can't let people in to see the "real me" or they would figure out that I suck and leave me."

So she walls you off. Which basically walls herself off too.

So you are here in the types on one-way relationships:

If chronic illness/issue, they own it and get themselves get under management/treatment. They can return to two-way relating as best the condition allows.
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Only she is NOT owning it, not getting help, not under management/treatment care for her issues. So all you are going to get is one-way here.

You cannot fix this -- only she can dismantle the wall. You can be as supportive as anyone could be. But in the end it is on her to own it, go see a counselor and do the work to take down the bricks in the wall. If she's gotten attached to her cocoon? She's not going to want to dismantle it. You might get a lot of song and dance (words) so you stay providing input but actual action might be light on the ground.

Like this:

she's told me before she wants me in her life no matter what.
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Ok. How did she MEAN that statement?

  • She wants you in her life even if she has to go see a counselor to address her self esteem issues that block her from healthy two-way relating?
  • Or she wants you in her life with you doing input no matter what? Just pretty words so you stay providing?

Maybe that's your boundary so you can be healthy?

If she is doing actions toward management like seeing a counselor, then maybe you are willing to stay and see.

But if she does no actions? It's all talk, no show? And you are basically unsatisfied here putting energy into a black hole? Could cut you losses and walk.

That is what I would do. As much as I love the person -- it's too hard to relate to a wall. Not healthy for me. :(

Galagirl
 
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cortile

I can't really blame her for not wanting to all hangout only because I know if I were in her shoes, I probably would not be comfortable with it. Hell, sometimes I'm not comfortable with it, myself. But I know the only way to make it better is to be uncomfortable sometimes. The only reason I get uncomfortable is because I never want to show intimacy towards one with the other there...and they both feel the same as well. I don't mind not being intimate or anything in front of the other, but wish we could all get together sometime (movie, a game, drinks) and I think we would all see it would be fine and amazing.

I have told her time and time again how very serious I am about her and our relationship. She says she feels the same way, and I usually believe her. But I'm thinking in the back of her head shes just waiting for the day I either say "I'm leaving my husband, I'm yours!!!" or "I love my husband more, I'm leaving you!"

Neither are the case. I love them both. Just how long do I try and get her to see that before I just give up?
 
I just don't know how long I can keep doing it like this
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Could stop then. You sound less than happy doing it.

If you haven't seen her in a month? Could let it go. Not even bring it up -- just move on to mourning the loss so you can reach the healing place. Could love her from a healthier distance like a past love. Not up close like an active one.

And be on guard for any trying to suck you back in like this:

We have taken some time apart before and every time we get back to being "us" it's because she wants to come back.
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She might want to come back for another refill from you. You could say "No, not like this."

If she wants to start it again, you could have a boundary about her being in counseling first for a while to resolve the issues that prevent her from offering herself as a fit, healthy, dating partner. She doesn't have to go. But you do not have to date broken people either.

You do not have to sign up for another round of "same ol' song, different day" of unhappiness for you.

Could guard against any hoovering.

Galagirl
 
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I haven't seen her in about a month but we've still been talking 24/7. And I am more than happy with her, please don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to stress the point of my problems, if that makes sense!
 
Yes. I see the problem. You struggle with internal conflict.

The problem is that (you don't want to break up) but (you grow increasingly unhappy with her clammed up/not secure/trying to reassure her/carrying most of the load alone/circular conversations.)

You know you cannot go like that forever -- you are feeling strain already filling the back hole.

These are some actions she could do alone or with you:

  • she solves her intimacy/self-esteem obstacles with individual counseling and/or couple counseling
  • she learns to communicate better
  • she deals with her weird around your hubby

But she does not want to do anything about changing any of it from her side, much less talk it out. You cannot MAKE her do these things or talk it out. You seem to know that too.

Limit of the Universe: You cannot control others. You can only control you, your behaviors, and your own limit of tolerance.

So as far as choices only YOU could do without her participating?

You are left with the choices of

  • You choose to remain in unsatisfying relationship forever (which stinks )
  • You choose to remain for now with a clear end point.
    • Ask what she IS willing to do.
      • Determine if that's enough for you. If not, you leave. (which stinks)
    • If what she is willing to do is enough for you for now, you put a time limit on giving it a good faith effort. You are willing to stay till X. When X passes you reassess.
      • If things smooth out ok because both toted their share of the load -- then great. You stay and continuing to participate here.
      • If not? She's not holding up her end of the stick? You choose to leave. (which stinks)
  • You choose to leave the relationship now and grieve. (which stinks )

All the choices have some stink. There is no totally rose smelling choice here. You asked what I would do in those shoes and I've said I would pick letting it go. But I am me, not you.

You get to pick the least stinky choice for you at this time. It is hard, painful, and not fun having to discern that for yourself. :(

But that's all I see here. I'm so sorry. :(

Galagirl
 
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aykess said:
I can't really blame her for not wanting to all hangout only because I know if I were in her shoes, I probably would not be comfortable with it. Hell, sometimes I'm not comfortable with it, myself. But I know the only way to make it better is to be uncomfortable sometimes. The only reason I get uncomfortable is because I never want to show intimacy towards one with the other there...and they both feel the same as well. I don't mind not being intimate or anything in front of the other, but wish we could all get together sometime (movie, a game, drinks) and I think we would all see it would be fine and amazing.

I have told her time and time again how very serious I am about her and our relationship. She says she feels the same way, and I usually believe her. But I'm thinking in the back of her head shes just waiting for the day I either say "I'm leaving my husband, I'm yours!!!" or "I love my husband more, I'm leaving you!"

Neither are the case. I love them both. Just how long do I try and get her to see that before I just give up?
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As usual, GalaGirl is on-point with all of her advice.

If you decide you're going to keep trying, and your GF is at all willing to work on communication, there are is another thing to consider: it's not at all uncommon for metamours to not hang out. While it may be your preference for that to happen, it simply may not be something she is interested in, and there may not be any motivations behind it other than she's not interested in it. We have a lot of members here that are hinges in a V, and many of them have partners who don't interact simply because they view the relationships as separate.

I, personally, don't date people who can't at least be civil to each other in a social setting, because if something horrible happens (car accident, serious health issue, etc.), I don't want the additional stress and drama of people who can't be what I consider reasonable adults. But, that is *my* boundary, not theirs, and it's up to me to remove myself from a relationship if things don't fit into my boundaries (rather than insist others change their behaviors). But, I also would never require them to be friendly, hang out, and certainly not to have to someday consider living together (if that wasn't something that was clearly something all involved wanted). That's a lot to ask, in my opinion, and while it may be your ideal, it may feel like an awful lot of pressure to her to do something she has zero interest in.

Also, having her in your home is likely to feel really "weighted" to her: it's your husband's and your space, as a couple. It may feel as if you're trying to "bring her into" your already existing patterns and relationship, instead of building couple patterns, etc. of your own? Why not go somewhere else, by yourselves, for your dates and develop your own relationship dynamics?

She may have a difficult time expressing her discomfort at the feelings of being "brought in" because she senses that it is, indeed, your expectation that that is exactly what happen, and she doesn't want to lose you. I am not saying that is an excuse for not talking, but fear can make communication difficult.

(While the "unicorn" aspect of this article, which Inyourendo posted a link to a while ago, doesn't apply directly, this post might give you some food for thought in terms of where your GF is coming from: it can be incredibly difficult to discuss or ask for things when you feel you are "secondary." The entire article may not be spot-on for you, but it is worth reading to see how some of what you're asking of her could be a real challenge for her.)
 
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GreenAcres said:
Also, having her in your home is likely to feel really "weighted" to her: it's your husband's and your space, as a couple. It may feel as if you're trying to "bring her into" your already existing patterns and relationship, instead of building couple patterns, etc. of your own? Why not go somewhere else, by yourselves, for your dates and develop your own relationship dynamics?
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This sounds right to me. I'm guessing it's nothing personal against your husband, but she's in it to hang out with YOU, not him. Some people (introverts) are happier spending time with their friends one-on-one. I personally get annoyed when I'm expected to hang out with someone's s.o., their kids, dogs, or whatever else when all I really want is to have my friend's undivided attention.

Also, some people just aren't into hanging out with families. I'm one of them. I'm rarely interested in spending time with anyone's parents/kids. I tolerate them. Your girlfriend is polite to your husband, she doesn't try to get you to leave him--sounds good to me. Maybe she just isn't interested in being a part of your family. But does the relationship have to escalate into more of a life-partnership? Can you be happy with having a girlfriend who isn't fully integrated into your family life?
 
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I'm on one side of a V with my wife's girlfriend on the other and there are echoes of the things we've gone through in many of the things you've said.

My wife and I talked constantly and took a long time navigating the twisting journey of opening up our long (25 year) monogamous marriage. You, meaning you, your husband and your girlfriend, need to take as much time as everyone needs to adjust to, become comfortable with and feel at home with a polyamorous relationship. That said, you can take all the time in the world, but if you aren't all communicating clearly, honestly and constantly, you simply will not be able to get yourselves to a place for a durable, successful relationship.

Your comment about your GF perhaps hoping that you'll say categorically you're either leaving your husband or leaving her is a red flag for me. If you truly want a poly relationship and actually think this might be what she's thinking, neither you nor she is going to get what you want. Speculating about what she's thinking rather than discussing it, comes right back around to communication.

As far as how the three of us conduct our relationship (and even though her girlfriend have no physical relationship whatsoever - we nevertheless definitely have a relationship), we established at the outset that my wife's physical relationship with her GF would be totally independent and separate from ours. That is to say, no three ways (a closed triad). For my part, I envisioned having a cordial, friendly relationship with her GF. Being able to all have dinner together, spend time together at our house, etc. To be sure, in the beginning we all felt self conscious and it was a bit awkward. After some time and talking, this has passed. A favorite example of the manifestation of this was the evening when her GF and I were making dinner together before my wife came home from work. As she walked in the door, both her GF and I greeted my wife with a cheerful "Hi honey - dinner's ready!" This may or may not be what you and your husband and GF envision - you all need to communicate what it is that each of you wants, needs and is not comfortable with (along with countless other things).

The question of space, privacy and having a place to be with each other is a constant challenge. The idea of having a place of their own is appealing in theory, but impractical and expensive in practice. I try to give them time to be alone, they sometimes are able to be at home when I'm at work and occasionally will stay at a hotel for a special event or anniversary. We cobble it together as best we can. Although my wife and I have briefly tossed around the idea of her moving in to a room in our house, it is not an idea that any of us is seriously considering at this point.

I am in complete agreement with others that have said that it is not for you to convince her of something or change her mind. It is up to her to make her decisions, as it is up to you to make yours. You need to decide what is right for you, communicate it honestly, clearly and with compassion to her and act accordingly.
 
Hi aykess,

I'm in an MFM V: me, Snowbunny, and Brother-Husband. We have been together as a poly unit for about nine years and counting, and get along pretty smoothly most of the time. And I need to tell you, Brother-Husband is not a strong communicator. If he's in a good mood he can do chit-chat, but at no time is he good at, or comfortable with, talking about relationship issues (or other heavy stuff). I don't bother trying to get him to talk, I just make my best guess at what he's thinking. I guess that's dysfunctional, but somehow we've made it work. Snowbunny will sometimes try to get him to talk, and it's like pulling eye teeth but she might eventually get a few words.

My point is that while communication is indeed really important especially in polyamory, it's been proven in one case (and I'll bet there's others) that sometimes you can work around a communication problem. It's a question of if that's something you can stand to do.

If you can't stand to do it, I would tell your girlfriend that you need her to communicate more if you are going to stay in a relationship with her, and I'd suggest to her that she get a counselor to help her learn to communicate more (and better). If you want to stay with her no matter what, you can use Polyamory.com as a sounding board to vent, or heck, maybe see a counselor yourself just to get some tips on how to deal with your girlfriend's reticence. Other than that, I guess you just learn by experience how to work around her when she's not talking, how to guess at her thoughts when necessary, and how to get used to her and accept her. Understand that even if she gets a little better at communicating, she might not get a lot better.

Just my 2¢.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
aykess said:
I know she's uncomfortable around my husband so I normally don't even invite her over when he's home anymore. She doesn't want to come to any family gatherings wether hubby is there or not, and I try not bringing it up anymore, but damnit I'm tired of falling more in love with her every day and not even being able to fully understand her.
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It sounds like you and her have different ideas about how you want your relationship to look like / function. She prefers to have a relationship with *you* alone, you'd like to have a big happy poly family. She is not willing to meet your hubby, nor come to family gatherings.

aykess said:
Question is, how would you deal about this? I will not push or pressure her into feeling a certain way or doing something she doesn't want to do... Just don't know if I should ask anymore (and worry I piss her off) Or stop asking her to do anything really...
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Well, I think you should ask her what kind of interaction *she* would like to have with you. Ask, what are her hopes and dreams considering your relationship, and work together from there.

From your intro post I get that you are a mother of two small children, and won't have a lot of opportunities to go out - sounds like you and your gf meet in your home. Are the kids always present? Do you ever get one-on-one time with your gf?

from your intro post:
I had a "fling" with a woman a few years back, and that's all I thought it was at the time. There were feelings both ways for sure, but I wasn't aware just how strong my feelings were until she was gone. Long story short, she's back in the picture THANK GOD. When she first came back around I figured she was just wanting to be a friend. So much had changed from the time before. She and I both got married, I had my second child, built a house with my husband, etc.
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Is your gf still married? You talk about wanting to live together with her but don't mention her spouse. What happened to that marriage?

These thoughts and questions just came to my mind reading your posts. Don't know if they are of any help, but - a new viewpoint might help to see things more clearly.
 
Thank you everyone for your input and knowledge. It has been quite a mad house around here lately... :( -nothing poly related, just family stuff. FUCK CANCER.

Anyways, gf and I had a nice long talk a couple days back. I think the day or 2 after I posted this, and got a chance to talk to some of you and read your comments. It was really nice to get some things off my chest. She still didn't say too much, but she said more than enough for me. Everything she DID say, I know she said it from the bottom of her heart and that we can make this work. She does realize now how serious I am about having to let go if it does keep up though.

her marriage: Long story short. X and her were dating. X cheated on her. X got pregnant. Baby daddy left the second she took the test. X came crawling back to her. They got back together and were the "happy family"...She took over Baby Daddy's role, and did more for that baby (sorry to say) than her own mother. They had been together on and off for some time, like a couple years. Got married, and it honestly shocked nobody. FF -Shortly after baby's 1st bday....Daddy comes back and wants in the picture....yadda yadda, X dropped the best thing that ever happened to her for a bum. Guess that wasn't really SHORT but....I tried!!
 
***Sorry, trying to hit all the points I've missed from your replies over the last couple days!

again, I would LOVE to have the big happy poly family, but I am perfectly okay with the way things are going, as well. :)

She knows hubby, just not on an extremely personal level, but they do get along and chit chat here and there if she's still here when he gets home, etc.

I am a mama of 2 littles, and don't get to go out often at all. She and I do meet here and while the kids are usually present, they're normally already in bed by the time our schedules let us get together. We get alone time then because they both sleep thru the night, thank God. I would love to have more alone time NOT just sitting in the house, but it's comfortable, cosy and fine with us.

I can totally be happy with having a girlfriend who isn't fully integrated into my family life. She isn't fully in right now and I'm more than happy with her. We definitely still have issues to work out, as any couple usually does but I'm happy. Do I wish she would do more with us? Of course. I would be lying if I said no. At the same time, I want to make her happy and if that means taking everything past US and some time with my littles SLOW and day by day, then that's what we do.
 
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