Expectations cause hate?

O

opalescent

Active member
I like Kimchi Cuddles, the poly webcomic, quite a lot. The artist practices a different type of poly than myself. Probably relationship anarchy is the closest description. So I often don't agree with her perspective. But this strip, and the last caption in particular, really bothered me. http://kimchicuddles.com/page/5

'Love with expectations is just a promise to hate you later.' Really?!? That's just absurd to me. I've had expectations of various sorts in all of my relationships. I don't hate any of my exes and I expect not to hate any future partners. If the mere existence of expectations causes one to hate partners, then, yeah, don't have expectations. But that's an individual problem.

It's true, unexamined, unconscious expectations can be problematic. I've had to deal with unconscious expectations generating unhappiness for me. But that's on me, not my partners. They are not responsible for my unconscious stuff. That's why self-reflection are so important.

I still have expectations. I work very hard to make them the above board, agreed upon type rather than the unconscious, unexamined ones. I just don't see expectations as inherently bad. I have to disagree with the assumption that 'good' poly requires non-attachment, no expectations, etc. That works for some, I suppose. And I get not wanting a super hierarchical situation where people who are not the primaries get treated as disposable. But this strikes me as an extreme reaction in the opposite direction that will not serve people well either. And I wonder what other folks think.
 
Everyone has expectations, and in relationship (any kind, not just romantic), I think they're very important, actually. For me, the issue comes in when those expectations aren't shared, agreed upon, and/or are unrealistic or one sided.

For example, I expect my partner(s) to be honest with me. I expect them to treat me with kindness and respect. I expect reasonable notice if dates have to be cancelled for non-emergency reasons. Etc. I am not sure how a relationship would function if I didn't have those expectations, really. If the expectations are more along the lines of "I expect to own your body and emotions," of course they're going to fail. But, I think that's generally true of mono relationships, as well.
 
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http://kimchicuddles.com/image/112305591685

That is a direct link.

The comic convo is:


"I don't know what jealousy is for other people but I've been really sitting with mine and what it is for me.

At first I thought it was caused by you neglecting my heart but then I noticed it was ME neglecting my heart.I was wanting your love to heal a hurt inside me but that is a hurt only I can heal.


I'm sorry if I forget this a million times but me loving you does not mean you OWE me something. Love with expectations is just a promise to hate you later."

​

I think the cartoon character realizes her expectation was unrealistic. And continuing to expect her partner to do that when he cannot was just going to lead to her resenting him for not being Miracle Man. The problem lies with her and her expectation. Not with him being human.

I think healthy, rational, reasonable, articulated expectations can be ok in relationships. I also think unreasonable, unrealistic, unarticulated expectations can lead to a mess.

I would have preferred a clearer last line though. It is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. She was using "I statements" all along until that last generalization.

"Me loving you with unrealistic expectations of you is me setting me up for unrealistic resentments." Could be a start.



Galagirl
 
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Hi opal,

I think the strip in question was aiming at something of a Zen Buddhist perspective; to wit, "Any desire you have in life exposes you to the possibility of disappointment," and, "In order to attain perfect bliss you must relinquish all desires." Zen Buddhism for relationships if you will. Desire (expect) nothing of the other person in your relationship, and then you won't have to hate (be disappointed by) that person later.

Heh, I'll not delve into Zen Buddhist perspective in general; I'll just address it as it (seems to me it) relates to relationships. I think it's true that wiping a relationship clean of all expectations innoculates that relationship from (hate and) disappointment. But it also clears that relationship of anything that gives the word "relationship" any meaning. I actually believe that the more meaningful the relationship, the greater the risk one must expose oneself to in order to be in that relationship. By "greater risk" I don't mean a greater chance of failure; I mean there's more at stake. Analogy: The odds of getting in a car crash are much higher than the odds of getting in a plane crash. But if you're in a plane and it crashes, you're much more likely to get killed than you would be in a car crash.

But I guess I don't strongly object to the strip in question for reasons similar to what you and the others mentioned. It's the unrealistic, unspoken expectations that can really bite us in the butt.
 
The problem with expectations isn't that expectations in themselves are good or bad, it's that people often don't go about things in the healthiest of ways, and tend to assign responsibility where it doesn't belong.

Expectations, in the context here, are essentially predictions of future behavior in others. Some are reasonable, some aren't, but they are always the responsibility of the one making them.

For example, if I trust someone, I generally expect them to keep promises they make to the best of their abilities. At the same time, I know that many people often break promises. If I decide I trust someone, I can reasonably predict that they're the type who tends to keep promises they make. If they fail to keep promise, I don't view it as them having failed me, I view it as me having misjudged them or misjudging the situation.

I think the point the comic is trying to make is that it's not reasonable to hold others responsible when they fail to live up to one's expectations. I agree with this. It also makes the assumption that all expectations contain such misdirected responsibility. This I don't agree with.
 
Is it always possible to know how much we should trust another person? (Is it always possible to know how much we should trust ourselves?)
 
I agree with what has been written.

But I think it's also important to keep in mind, that it's damn near impossible to "sum up" any significant life concept into a sentence.

A comic, by it's nature is a short blurb that somehow is meant to get across a large complicated life in a summed up (usually humorous) sentence or two.

Combine that with the fact that we often are assuming that the reader/listener has some similar experience or knowledge to us-

It's easy to inadvertently make the sentence TOO simple and therefore leave out a critical component.

I took the comic as her saying that her own expectations left uncontrolled (by her) and un-inspected (by her) created a sense of entitlement that leads to hate.

OBVIOUSLY that wasn't all said. But that was the message I got when I read the comic on my fb page.
 
In the 12 step program I use to frequent, a common saying was "expectations are pre-planned resentments." Obviously this is simplistic in that there are certain things we can reasonably expect.... the sun will rise each morning, I will need to work if I want a paycheck from my employer, and the electric company will shut off my electricity if I don't pay my bill. But, for me, expecting someone to behave in a manner I deem appropriate, is a recipe for resentment because what I deem appropriate for myself, is not necessarily appropriate for the other person. Plus, we're human and we screw up. Instead, I define my boundaries, communicate them when appropriate, enforce them when appropriate, or adjust them, if appropriate. Living without expectations of others has freed me of many resentments. I'm assuming the cartoonist has likewise found that living without expectations of others is healthier for her/him?
 
In relationships, I think it's easy to have premature expectations of the other person. As time goes on, if we get to know the person better and better, we might get a clearer picture of what we can most likely expect from that person.

It also goes without saying that we should (in theory if not in practice) be able to expect certain basic things of the people we interact with, such as the expectation that they won't use violence against us. I suppose there is a slider between the most basic of expectations and the most specialized of expectations.
 
As others have said, *some* expectations can cause hate. That would be the unreasonable or unrealistic ones.

For example, I expect Hubby and S2 to treat me with respect. That's a reasonable, realistic expectation, and they have the same expectation of me. That expectation isn't likely to cause hate.

If I were to expect Hubby and S2 to drop everything at work to support me through anxiety attacks, that would be unreasonable. It would also be unrealistic to expect it of S2; his job is high-pressure and he can't take time off without advance notice unless it's a major emergency. (He had to go into the office during one of the blizzards we had last month.) If I had that expectation and they failed to meet it, I would likely be hurt, angry, and resentful.

That said, whether an expectation is reasonable or unreasonable, and realistic or unrealistic, can be very subjective, dependent on the people involved. For some people, expecting their partner to leave work and come home to support them through an anxiety attack might be completely reasonable and realistic. But it isn't in my case.
 
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