Negotiating away sexual freedoms

A

Asparagus

New member
By trial and error, I have figured out I do badly with the freedom of mine to do whatever I want with a partner being restricted for a metamour's feelings sake. I have no problem if that's for practicality (my partner would really like to have a strong come with his wife who he is planning to have sex with soon, so lets me know he won't with me, this time, for example.)

I've acquiesced to negotiating away freedoms, and decided for me, it's a devil's pact- I did it for the sake of closeness I felt during the negotiation process, but ended up deciding that was codependent and not acceptable.

I have another friend who seems okay with being restricted by a metamoir or his primary partner on what he and his partner can do with each other, even if the original agreement of what could happen was different. No negotiation seems to need to happen for him but the metamour/primary partner's request, whether he's the affected party or his partner is. Or if the person with which he is being restricted with is also a primary partner or not.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around this, probably because when I accepted freedom limitations, it was unhealthy. Or maybe because anyone else having control of what I do with my body apart from my partner's desire of what I do with them is a hot-button due to non-consenty situations in the past. Possibly, sex in other relationships is non-essential to my friend, who has a sexual primary, and essential to me, as I have high drive and no live-in or feequently-seen partner

What are your thoughts? Can this situation be healthy for my friend, where it isn't for me?

I know my friend is into cuckolding, and I'm very much into equality- is this possibly a "my kink is not your kink, but my kink is okay" thing?
 
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Note: the reason it even matters to me is I'm trying to be supportive to my friend in a situation where this happened, and can use some help seeing I'm not furthering unhealthiness by doing so.
 
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Asparagus said:
Note: the reason it even matters to me is I'm trying to be supportive to my friend in a situation where this happened, and can use some help seeing I'm not furthering unhealthiness by doing so.
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If your friend is a) okay with their relationships and b) these restrictions add something to their relationship (the cuckold element, there isn't anything unhealthy about it.

Restrictions outside of the primary relationship actually make some people feel secure.
 
I hadn't even considered the possibility that these restrictions might add.

I get that relationships outside the primary are really good for someone. Certainly my friend. I'm not sure that the cuckolding applies- I'm jut grasping at straws. I sense it's more something my friend accepts as a way to be with people without causing waves. But thank you- I think I might assume the
reareictions might add until proven otherwise.

I guess another way to look at it as while this bwhavior may or may not be healthy, giving away power is something my frien does and is either good, neutral, or not ready to be dealt with. And while that's true for him, this relationship seems to be good for him. And power loss doesn't seem to cause him inordinate amounts of grief, or cross into abusive in his relationships.

I think it would stop me from dating this friend without proactively negotiating "no negotiating away power of independence with us", but as long as that's not on the table, and even if it was, it's perfectly okay or me to just support the seeking of happiness in relationships however my friend finds it, without judging his choices.

(The key thing for me seems to be not supporting a slippery slope towards abuse, but my friend seems to not go there.)
 
Hi Asparagus,

Re (from OP):
"What are your thoughts? Can this situation be healthy for my friend, where it isn't for me?"
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I suppose so. Only your friend can know that for sure.

(It sounds like you need to reverse the direction of your negotiations, so that you gain increased freedom rather than decreased freedom.)

Re:
"Is this possibly a 'my kink is not your kink, but your kink is okay' thing?"
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I don't see why not.
 
To be blunt, Asparagus, I don't think it's up to you to determine whether your friend's choices are healthy for him. They're HIS choices. It's up to HIM whether they're healthy or not.

If he's your friend and you want to be supportive of him, be supportive. It doesn't matter whether you think he's making healthy choices. If you're his friend, it should matter only whether HE thinks his choices are healthy, and whether he's happy with those choices.

If you can't support him because his choices don't agree with yours, then don't try to be supportive. Just tell him you can't.

This is definitely a your kink/my kink situation. There isn't anything inherently unhealthy about accepting or imposing limits; nor is there anything inherently unhealthy about not accepting or imposing them. They're simply different ways of conducting relationships.

As far as whether giving away power risks abuse... Being in ANY relationship risks abuse, in my opinion. There was no giving away of power in my first marriage; I fought for every scrap of control and power over myself. But that didn't stop him from being abusive to me on an almost daily basis. No matter how hard I fought, he constantly tried to rip my power away from me.

On the flip side, Hubby and I have a BDSM aspect to our marriage. I'm the sub, he's my Sir. When we're acting within that aspect, and sometimes even when we aren't since I'm a submissive personality generally, I do give him power over me. And he accepts that gift with care and love, and does not abuse it or me.

The key there is *I give*. If someone is voluntarily GIVING someone else power over themselves, as opposed to that power being taken or the person being coerced into giving it up, and as long as the person receiving that power understands that it's a GIFT and not a right, it isn't abusive.
 
It could be that the friend feels that anything his girlfriend chooses to share with him is a gift and accepts it for what it is, not why it isn't otherwise. If the girlfriend agrees to restrictions with her primary or whatever, then your friend is being respectful and loving by accepting those restrictions and not trying to push at them, which puts the girlfriend in a tug-of-war.
 
KC43 said:
To be blunt, Asparagus, I don't think it's up to you to determine whether your friend's choices are healthy for him. They're HIS choices. It's up to HIM whether they're healthy or not.

If he's your friend and you want to be supportive of him, be supportive. It doesn't matter whether you think he's making healthy choices. If you're his friend, it should matter only whether HE thinks his choices are healthy, and whether he's happy with those choices.

If you can't support him because his choices don't agree with yours, then don't try to be supportive. Just tell him you can't.

The key there is *I give*. If someone is voluntarily GIVING someone else power over themselves, as opposed to that power being taken or the person being coerced into giving it up, and as long as the person receiving that power understands that it's a GIFT and not a right, it isn't abusive.
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No bluntness needed-'I would agree with you.

The reason I started this thread is because I am a storm believer in self-determinism, and had found myself.being, uncharacteristically, less than 100% supportive. It's not as simple as can or can't -
I can probably always be supportive as long as I'm not convinced someone is definately heading into impending doom, which,
Though is rarely the case, is a path human minds tend to go down,
Consciously or not.

I recognized that my feelings that this was happening, and would rather deal with those dire predictions by getting other opinions that contradict mine and giving my mind a place to settle (even a "it might be this way" settles my mind) than withdraw support.

And, in the way of poly-inter connectedness, I recognized my lack of objectivity because this pattern of his once affected me, back when we were all newer at poly, and didn't know what he he'll we were doing.


Good distinction about nothing being abusive if it is voluntarily given. Though I would add coercion by a skilled abuser is almost impossible to spot if you're on it,'becIse they use knowledge of how yor mind works to hide the coercion from you,

Thank you all for your insights and perspectives. They helped a lot in understanding where my friend might be coming from.
 
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I agree with the other posters. Your friend gets to decide whether his relationship (s) are healthy or not, even if they look or sound unhealthy to you. He's an adult. It's his right to restrict his freedoms or not. I'm submissive by nature and will do this, depending on the circumstanced..

Asparagus said:
Good distinction about nothing being abusive if it is voluntarily given. Though I would add coercion by a skilled abuser is almost impossible to spot if you're on it,'because they use knowledge of how your mind works to hide the coercion from you,
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Of course, as someone who was in a ltr that was abusive, I'd agree with this. I think it's especially true with individuals who've been in abusive relationships before. That said, even if your friend's dynamic is abusive, he's unlikely to recognize it as such until he's ready to. In that case, the best you can do is support him even if you're not supportive of his relationship. (If you don't feel like you can enthusiastically support his relationship dynamic, then don't.)
 
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