My long distance gf just opened our relationship

Laybon said:
Maybe she is being too reckless with this new-found freedom of hers. We haven't figured out how it all works yet, who to tell, who not too tell, what do we say to people?
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As Leetah and nycindie alluded to, it's not unusual in many social circles for a single woman to be entertaining several romantic attachments. That's a large part of what the women's movement was all about: freedom from the clucking chickens of social convention - and it's been like this for a good 50 years now. Most single women don't idnetify as poly or mono, they just enjoy their sexual freedom until they "settle down." You're worrying for her "reputation" and frankly, that's not a concept I've heard anyone concern themselves with since the 1950s (not that I was around then.....)

Her life. Her relationships. Her choice.
Come join us in the 21st Century!
 
Hey fallenAngelina
Thanks for your input.
The thing is she isn't/wasn't a single woman. She was, or at least she wanted me to think she was, for quite some time, in a monogamous relationship with me.
I'm sorry if my considerate attitude seems old fashioned to you. Perhaps I should just not give a shit about her nor whatever people think about her. Because the women's movement is everything, right?
From where I'm standing right now, a men's movement would probably be more relevant and I hate to imagine a circumstance in 2015 where you night think otherwise.
 
Hi Laybon

I understand where you're coming from. It's the same here (in NZ) in some communities (particularly Maori ones). From the outside perspective there's no big difference and monogamy is expected from the moment sex is involved. The term missus is uses to describe a girlfriend. Hell, my flatmate's mates used to consider me his missus just because we were sleeping together and I'd often play taxi (he didn't have a car). So they got used to seeing me around, and I, by default, became the missus in their eyes. And yeah, even though he told them we were casual, I can imagine that had I been spotted by one out on another date, he would have had to have said we broke up, or he would have got shit for his missus 'stepping out' on him.

So throughout this thread I have understood your concerns, even if my understanding is from still a slightly different place. But in short, many people don't get it, will never get it, and when those people are employers, especially in a family business, there is risk. They'll see her as 'stepping out' on you, since they already knew you. This may affect her employment.

Has she told you how it went with Chef? And if she has encountered any comments or questions from other staff or her employers?

Evie
 
Evie said:
.... many people don't get it, will never get it, and when those people are employers, especially in a family business, there is risk. They'll see her as 'stepping out' on you, since they already knew you. This may affect her employment.
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Be that as it may, it's for her to manage. She is free to renegotiate the terms of her relationships, choose her social surroundings, choose her employment. It isn't for a boyfriend to micromanage. Her boyfriend's job is to love her and manage his own jealousy, but not to judge her choices, especially from thousands of miles away. Concern over a woman's "reputation" is nothing but shaming her for expressing her sexual freedom. There are plenty of places in the world where women live free of this ridiculous kind of social pillory and Laybon's girlfriend is certainly capable of finding them. He should be supporting her in her efforts to live a fulfilling life, not urging her to keep herself contained by internalizing outmoded & damaging social fears.
 
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FallenAngelina said:
He should be supporting her in her efforts to live a fulfilling life, not urging her to keep herself contained by internalizing outmoded & damaging social fears.
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Yes, absolutely. Perhaps Laybon also knows how fulfilling this work (and what else the income allows to do) is for her too and that without it his gf would also suffer. She's very focused on the poly aspect of her life right now. There's always the bigger picture to consider.

And you're right, she has to manage herself, but very few people do this in isolation. Humans are interdependent/social. So of course Laybon should be voicing his opinions - concerns and fears, as well as support and encouragement. Love is expressed in both these ways (and many more besides).

So, Laybon, you might say to her, "I am fearful that your dating multiple people in this environment could harm your current and future work prospects here." Then if she blows that concern off as one she doesn't share, then it's time to let it go. Lovers can also give their partners roots and wings.

It sounds like you've already had conversations with your gf something along this line: "These employers know me as your boyfriend, and now they will see you dating others, but then I will be visiting soon and I fear that they will judge the both of us negatively." You have every right to discuss with her how you feel, and expect her to be not dismissive of your concerns. After all, a united front is always stronger when facing societal pillories.

This is also a time for personal growth, to understand that pretty much any embarrassment you would feel from a disapproving look, or someone taking you aside to inform you (for your own good lol) about her dating, is because of societal expectations and how these have shaped our own habitus. And to be able to look someone else in the eye and say, "yes, I know, we both recognise that the capacity for love, including romantic love, is unbounded and therefore have chosen to live in an openly loving way." Who knows, you might challenge someone's worldview so much they grow from it too.
 
Yes, Evie. I think you understand how I feel and what my concerns are. And thanks for the advice. I have had a conversation with her about my concerns of who should know what and she shares them. She said she didn't know what she would say.

Until a little over a month ago I thought I was in a mono relationship with her. We've only researched poly lifestyles since then. We're very new to this and I'm taking it a day at a time. She seems to by thriving although I'm worried that it's going too quickly and I care about her. I'm not trying to micromanage her life and and I need support from her too. Until very recently I wouldn't hold back from discussing every aspect of her life - family, friends, uni, etc. And now FallenAngelina's saying to me that it's up to her to manage everything on her own without input from me. Am I not allowed to have an opinion of her and should I just love her on her terms and shut the fuck up? Where's my say in this? Of course I want her to be happy but I need to be happy too.

I'm not really sure how it went with Chef but I think New Guy has drove over to see her for a few days. I'm not sure who she's told them (her employers) he is. I'm not sure because the communication between us is not good and besides, I don't want to be calling and texting when she's with him. Last time I was with her, he was calling and texting and it pissed me off. Also, there's no wifi there and calls are expensive and she works late. I've had the odd text but I haven't spoken with her since we argued on Friday. We argued because I was being too needy and demanding reassurance from her ALL THE TIME. I'm finding this quite difficult. I'm used to talking to her about everything, every day. Since this thing has been out in the open it has been at the top of my mind day and night. Sometimes I feel completely lost. Sometimes I am accepting of the situation. I do support her but I find it difficult. If it doesn't work for me then it doesn't work but it's still early days and I am slowly adjusting but it is a slow process. I can't just flip a switch and just accept everything that's happening. I've been on an emotional roller-coaster for all this time. She's visiting me next Sunday for a few days so we'll see how it goes. I'm sure we'll have time to talk about MY FEELINGS but hopefully we'll also have a good time - which is what we normally have. And yes, before you ask, of course I care about her feelings but she clearly appears to be adjusting to this faster than I am.

I came to this site because I needed support and advice on how to deal with how I'M FEELING about this. Not because I wanted to be criticised.
 
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Hey Laybon,

Have you considered opening up the relationship from your end too? The reason I personally am not interested in a long-distance relationship is simply because I'm the kind of person who feels lonely quite easily. Some people can handle that, or feel like the relationship is worth that sacrifice (particularly if it's a temporary separation) but for me, if I can't spend face to face time with my loved one frequently, I would end up just constantly thinking about them instead, and moping. A lot. If I imagine how I'd feel with the additional pressure of a) adjusting to non-monogamy for the first time, and b) getting over the fact that she cheated on me a bunch of times and we have yet to be able to repair that broken trust, well…no wonder you are thinking about this constantly!

At the moment, you sound as though you are purely in reactive mode. You accept and own the fact that you chose to stay with her and give non-monogamy a go (which is good), but you are now wrestling with the realisation that you are powerless to control anything she says or does, how fast, with whom, any of it. So you're just reacting to her decisions and the impact they have on you, rather than making decisions yourself, supporting her decisions (note: acknowledging someone's right to make a decision isn't the same as actually supporting them), or properly communicating how those decisions are making you feel. If you want to wrestle some control back in your life, realise that the only person you can control is yourself. You have expressed your concern about how others will perceive her, so your job is done in that regard. She can choose to take that concern on board or not. If she suffers because she's living with people who disagree with her choices, that is on her. What I'm more concerned about is YOU. Is your worry about your relationship eating into other areas of your life? How does worrying about her help you get through this? Who is nearby that can offer you support? Have you confided in friends? Family? And now that you have agreed to be in this open relationship, how do you want that to work out for you?

You see, the thing is, this isn't just about her and her behaviour and her decisions. You have made decisions too. You went with a gut feeling to open things up, and are only now getting around to researching what that means and how it might work. It's not helpful for people (me) to point out that you did this the wrong way around, is it? But…you kind of did do this the wrong way round! So now I think the best thing you can do is to take your mental focus away from her and her stuff, and start to look in at yourself and your stuff. This could be a great opportunity for you. Being long-distance is sucky. It really is. So instead of throwing all your energies her way, start hanging out with your friends more. Make new friends. Be open minded to meeting another girlfriend even. Or if you're just horny, cultivate some friends with benefits. Whatever you're interested in. Make your life, where you are, as fulfilling as possible so that you and she can continue to approach your relationship together as equals. Right now, it seems like she is getting a lot of her emotional and social and sexual needs fulfilled where she is, but you're still pinning all of that responsibility of need-fulfilment on her. And getting frustrated with that.

A lot of the issues here are nothing to do with being in an open relationship or adjusting to that, but to do with the long-distance element. Try to see the open relationship as a solution to some of those problems, and it might be easier to digest. However, you also need to be aware of the fact that negotiating your new open status requires intense communication, and you can't have that right now (because of long-distance/your shared communication problems/her NRE with New Guy). You also have the issue that repairing trust and receiving reassurance is also usually best done face to face and in person. So don't expect this to be an easy ride. Will your relationship with her survive? I honestly don't know. I suspect the best thing for you right now might be for it to shift and morph and become less central to your life for the time being, ready to be picked up again at a higher intensity if she moves back closer to you. A leap of faith. Whatever the outcome, you will be fine. As long as you know that, you can't really go wrong.
 
TenK

Thanks for your amazing post. I really appreciate it. I need a bit of time to think about what you said - you summed up my feelings very well!
You're right about me taking my mental focus away from her and back to me or other things, which is what I would like to do, but that's something I'll have to work on. I'm normally pretty independent but all of this has really hit me hard and it's like I am craving her attention but not getting enough of her attention. And getting pissed off when I don't get enough. The frustration is exactly as you described and it's nice to know that someone understands.

I have considered opening up at my end but I previously had no desire to do so. I'm not very good at meeting new people so I'll have to really force myself. I've been trying to flirt recently and I'm absolutely useless! How do you cultivate friends with benefits? I don't know where to start.

I've discussed it with her - the long-distance could work well with this lifestyle if I can shift some of my focus away from her and on to other things. I think it would be worse if she was seeing someone I know or someone near to where I live. Seeing each other every 3 or 4 weeks could be perfect for a poly lifestyle. Also, the sex has been even hotter since she started to tell me stuff!

Sometimes, however, it feels like it can't possibly work.

We always had a long distance relation ship and we never lived near each other and despite this we were so intense. She was central to my life, or she IS central to my life and I know i was central to hers (at some point, at least) and I never saw that as a bad thing. Especially if you think that you're both pulling in the same direction with a view to sharing more of our lives together at some point in the future. Obviously we weren't pulling in the same direction and my vision of a future has shattered. I'm already grieving in a way.

As I said, I'm going to think about what you said. Thanks again and thanks to everyone who has responded.
 
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Until very recently I wouldn't hold back from discussing every aspect of her life - family, friends, uni, etc. And now FallenAngelina's saying to me that it's up to her to manage everything on her own without input from me. Am I not allowed to have an opinion of her and should I just love her on her terms and shut the fuck up? Where's my say in this?
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You could ask her. Now that there's been this change, how much input does she want from you, and how much influence is she willing to accept from you? And how much input do you want from her? And how much influence are you willing to accept from her.

Sort out your personal boundaries.

Galagirl
 
Hey Galagirl
I'm not used to reigning myself in with her. I'd rather just talk about whatever comes up. I don't know what you mean when you say personal boundaries.
 
I mean sort it out. Your personal boundaries are what you are and are not up for. When someone cross your boundaries, you get your toes stepped on. She crossed them with the cheating. So... has that been mended or not? Does she know what your boundaries are at this point in time?

Her personal boundaries are what she is and is not up for. Do you know what those are? Talk and see what lines up and what does not. If you are still compatible in this Open model or not. If there's still work on healing from cheating to do first. "Open" is not the bandaid or solution to "cheating" -- it's possible to cheat in open relationships too.

Have you healed from the cheating? You call is "possessive" --- to me it sounds more like "trust betrayal." She lied before... now you are going to be skittish for a while and uncertain. You will want and need more reassuring than usual -- how willing is she to do that work with you?

Why are you choosing Open model? Because you want one? Or because you don't want to break up with her?

You seem to be wondering this:

Am I not allowed to have an opinion of her and should I just love her on her terms and shut the fuck up? Where's my say in this? Of course I want her to be happy but I need to be happy too.
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You are going to have your opinion anyway of course.

But in this relationship, now that there was cheating and considering Open...

You could ask her. Is she willing for you to share your opinions with her? Or does she expect you to love her on her terms and shut the fuck up?

Is she willing to be influenced by your opinions as you rebuild trust? Maybe you think some things are "too fast" -- will she listen?

What is she willing to provide you in terms of support? She can state where she is at.

You can do same.

Then you both can know if you both want to continue to participate here under those terms or not. To me you sound like there's some poly hell along with not knowing how things are here.

And the cheating stuff to sort.

You have to figure out your boundaries with your GF in an Open model. What you are and are not up for. And HOW you will transition from a cheating thing to a poly thing.

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl

Thanks for taking the time to respond to me. And thanks for those links which are sooo relevant. I might ask her to read them.

I don't know how I feel about the cheating. It's still painful but I trust her now that she's told me everything.

I certainly didn't want to open the relationship. When I first found out that she cheated I asked her to choose between New Guy and me. We worked it through and we realised that she wouldn't change and it's just the way she is. I always knew she had more sexual experience than me and she has a huge sexual appetite most of the time. And anyway, that's the girl I fell in love with. And I'm pretty sure she's still in love with me, even though there must be loads of NRE with New Guy. I decided I'd try the open relationship to see if it could work. I'm still trying but the communication between us at the moment is shockingly bad (with her being where she is) and I'm not sure if she wants to put in all the work that everyone talks about. She's already getting pissed off at me feeling needy and sometimes jealous. She says she isn't responsible for my emotions - which I have not been able to keep a lid on all the time and I've freaked out a few times.

We can't talk to discuss our boundaries at the moment because New Guy is currently visiting her and I'm giving them space. So I can't ask her what support she's prepared to give me. We used to speak every day + texts. When New Guy's gone she'll be working and then Chef might occupy her time! I do feel demoted and I'm not sure any more of my status in her life. I hope with time and better communication things will become clearer and we'll know what to expect from each other. I do need reassurance but she's never been the sort of girl to say "I love you" very often because she says it loses meaning the more regularly she uses those words.
 
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Glad the links help some.

I certainly didn't want to open the relationship.
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How are you meeting your want by agreeing to participate in an Open relationship? It sounds like you are participating just to avoid a break up. :(

I'm not sure if she wants to put in all the work that everyone talks about
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I wonder if she cheated, and when you asked her to choose she picked not you. But then she agreed to give it a try to assuage her guilt from the cheating. And maybe now she regrets that choice, and rather than cut you loose and be up front about it....she's putting all her energies into the new people. Neglecting you hoping you will just figure it out and break up with her so she's not the "bad guy."

Could that be it?

I could be wrong, and I certainly hope I am. But def talk and sort this out. You deserve to be treated well.

I do need reassurance but she's never been the sort of girl to say "I love you" very often because she says it loses meaning the more regularly she uses those words.
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That's weird sounding. I don't think saying "I love you" to people gets "diluted" like that.

I am so sorry you are dealing in this. :(

For your sake, I hope it does get cleared up and goes how you hope.

But if the conversation does not go like you hope... if she avoids even having the conversation at all? I hope you realize you deserve to be treated well. I hope you are willing to walk away. Don't be hanging there forever. YKWIM?

GL!
Galagirl
 
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Hi GalaGirl

I am definitely participating in an open relationship to avoid breaking up and I think she is too. If you love somebody and they love you but they also love someone else and you want to stay together then an open relationship is the only solution, right? She said that having to chose between me or New Guy would be like losing one of her legs - which is why we are where we are now.

The communication is difficult between us at the moment but we speak when we can and she's flying over to see me in a few days. So she is putting in the work. I hope I haven't sounded too negative about her on here. I'm sure her side of the story would read slightly different to mine, but it was me (not her) who came to site looking for advice and support. I'm very grateful for all the advice and support I've received so far.
 
She said that having to chose between me or New Guy would be like losing one of her legs - which is why we are where we are now.
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That is her stuff.

You are where you are now because you asked her to pick and she did not. Then you chose to stay anyway, even though you really do not want an Open relationship.

I get that you are trying to make it work. You are placing your want to be with her ahead of your want for your preferred relationship shape. Which is totally fine. You can try something on to see if it works or not. For your sake I hope the communication things happen as you hope and things do smooth out. :eek:

I'm just saying to go in with eyes open, that's all. And if it turns out it doesn't work after all, be willing to let the romance end and be friends instead.

Galagirl
 
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