Are we ready for Poly?... or naive?

M

msmall007

New member
I am Michael…. my girlfriend, let’s call her Sarah. We have been together a little over a year and half and have a great relationship, but not without its complications. Even though some of those complications might be pertinent to arriving at the right answer to my question… it doesn’t seem to make sense to get lost in the weeds.

We do not currently live together. When we are together we have amazing sex, although I do deal with some performance issues, we have incredibly loving and silly times, we laugh for hours and have very few problems sharing our thoughts and emotions very openly. I am bisexual and Sarah is well aware of that. I am monogamous but cannot help my attraction and desire to bring another man into our bed.

We brought another man into our bed once… and internet-find that we vetted… and the experience was wonderful; we had a great evening except for two brief moments of discomfort…. first when I was licking her pussy and looked up and saw them kissing, passionately, her hand was at the back of his head…. the second, possibly somewhat rooted in the first, when because of an accident our dog had as we walked our guest to his car, she ended up walking him alone without understanding it might concern me. I was very disappointed in myself for these feelings of jealousy. I didn’t seem to mind his cock in her, but somehow a kiss, a walk to his car… was too much for me?? I discussed this all with Sarah… I know that she loves me, yet I can’t help that I felt what I felt.

I get way too wordy sometimes and therefore will not go into a lot of detail, but a few things have happened in our lives over the last few months that we survived and because of that, we are even more confident and secure in our feelings for each other. If that threesome had happened now… I cannot believe I would have any issues.

We share our fantasies often… during hot sexting sessions, sex talk when we are together, or just thoughtfully talking with each other. We really want to bring another man into our bed again…. really into our relationship…. we have discussed it often. She wants to see another man with me… see him inside me… and I want to share her with another man for her pleasure, but we want to find something/someone real and not cycle through a line of one night stands. Last evening, in a several hour erotic text conversation… she narrated a beautiful scenario between us and another man. It was much more than brining a man into our bed. It was sexy and hot and beautifully loving and sensual and there was not a tinge of negative feelings in my heart or in my head…. I loved everything we discussed. We truly believe we want to find another man we can be that intimate with… sharing sensual, loving moments… and friendship beyond, in and out of bed. We have discussed, very thoughtfully, the ‘rules’ necessary… the boundaries, the level of communication and openness required.

Finally now to my questions....

Based on what I have read recently, what feels right to us is a poly-triangle relationship where our relationship, hers and mine, is primary…and hers with him and mine with him are secondary. Does that even make sense? I mean, the rules and boundaries we discussed are about preserving our relationship…. that neither of us will have sex with this new person alone… that all communication will be open and include all three of us always, that we will stop and discuss any crossing of currently unknown lines along the way. We want the excitement of bringing another into our bed… and want it to be absolutely loving between the three of us; not just sexually, but emotionally. We want to sleep together, do things together…movies, out dancing/partying, watching sports. Is it possible to start to form this new type of relationship, allowing some level of intimacy and emotional connection between the three of us while holding back enough from ‘him’ to protect and preserve ours? We are not trying to fill any gaps in what we have, just enhance it… expand it. Are we being naïve?... I am very concerned… I don’t want to ruin what we have.

Thank you…

Michael
 
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People are not sex toys to bring into your relationship to spice things up.

Couple dating never works, and Triads have the highest failure rate.

If you want a boyfriend go get one. DO NOT expect or require that man to date both of you. How dare you lay out how this third persons relationship will evolve, put limits on who they have sex with when, put limits on their life.

Google Unicorn hunter.. The articles are geared towards couples searching for that hot bi female babe but it applies to you folks too.

No you are not ready for polyamory and you are naïve too.
 
Have you read this: So, someone called you a Unicorn Hunter?

You describe a very hierarchical relationship, and if you find someone who's willing to fit into the very narrow mould you've made for him, great. You need to be aware, though, that by placing rigid conditions on the shape of the relationship you're greatly reducing the pool of potential matches out there. A better option might be to individually find a partner for yourself while Sarah finds one of her own.
 
Sounds like you are looking for a male unicorn. Look up unicorn if you don't know what that is. You don't want a triad. You want a playtoy who doesn't mean that much to you. You've already decided all the parameters and now you want to shop. I do think that is naive. You might find a guy like that, but it is unlikely to last long. People get tired of being the lesser third cog.

Edit: I guess I should have refreshed before posting...
 
Dagferi said:
If you want a boyfriend go get one. DO NOT expect or require that man to date both of you. How dare you lay out how this third persons relationship will evolve, put limits on who they have sex with when, put limits on their life.
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We are not putting limits on anyone... Chill. I was describing the way we envisioned something that has not even happened yet. The relationshop we think we are looking for is a triangle... we fully understand that has to happen... not be put in place.
 
Emm said:
Have you read this: So, someone called you a Unicorn Hunter?

You describe a very hierarchical relationship, and if you find someone who's willing to fit into the very narrow mould you've made for him, great. You need to be aware, though, that by placing rigid conditions on the shape of the relationship you're greatly reducing the pool of potential matches out there. A better option might be to individually find a partner for yourself while Sarah finds one of her own.
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I appreciate the feedback.... again, we are new and very unsure. As we are just starting a search, it did not feel like we were putting such rigid conditions. Each of us getting our own, outside relationships is certainly not what we are pursuing...
 
Imagine someone suggesting that you only have sex with your girlfriend when they are there. Rule of thumb: if you need a rule to protect your relationship, you aren't ready.
 
i suggest you read these two links:

The Relationship Bill of Rights
Have in mind that your new guy really should have all these rights, too. Not only you and your gf.

Dos and don’ts for happy polyamorous relationships

You two are sharing a fantasy, and that can be beautiful and nice in itself. Remember that fantasy and reality are very very different things. Most likely there is no one on this earth who would fit your fantasy exactly.
 
I appreciate the discussion, feedback and links provided. The reason that I posted on this site was to learn about those things that I felt we were ignorant of.

We have a fantasy right now and have discussed bringing it into reality. Since we love each other, I know that any changes need to be very thoughtful as to how and what the scope of things that can happen as a result. We are not bad people and do not wish to hurt somebody else any more that we wish to be hurt ourselves or lose each other.

Thank you... Michael
 
msmall007 said:
We really want to bring another man into our bed again…. really into our relationship…. She wants… and I want.... for her pleasure, but we want....

...a beautiful scenario....sexy and hot and beautifully loving and sensual....We have discussed, very thoughtfully, the ‘rules’ necessary… the boundaries, the level of communication and openness required.

what feels right to us is a poly-triangle relationship where our relationship, hers and mine, is primary…and hers with him and mine with him are secondary. [It's all about] about preserving our relationship….

We want...the excitement… and want it to be absolutely loving between the three of us; not just sexually, but emotionally. We want to sleep together, do things together…movies, out dancing/partying, watching sports.
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Can you see from the snippets above why this would look as if you want a living, breathing sex toy, rather than a real person?

In addition, can you see how you're trying to create a fantasy world? What happens if this new guy loses his job and can't pitch in with finances? Doesn't close the toilet lid for Sarah or decides he wants some alone time with one or the other of you--you know, like most boyfriends get with people they're involved with?

What happens if he ever comes home from work in a bad mood and doesn't feel like being the fantasy boy? What happens if he wants his family over to visit--or better yet if they don't care for you but now it's his home, too?

Or is he supposed to maintain his own home on his own while the two of you face life together and share the burdens of life?

What happens if he gets cancer and needs the two of you to care for him long term rather than being able to being all sexy in bed to enhance your relationship? What happens if he wants the same help with medical bills that you and Sarah would give each other?

You are painting a picture of a fantasy life spent in bed, but this is not real life for anyone. You are going to be in for a rough awakening if you expect what you described to really be your life with this hypothetical man.

Is it possible to start to form this new type of relationship, allowing some level of intimacy and emotional connection between the three of us while holding back enough from ‘him’ to protect and preserve ours? We are not trying to fill any gaps in what we have, just enhance it… expand it.
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No. At least not for very long. Why would anyone settle for being the side dish who's meant to enhance your relationship and do all this adding and giving, and be a fun fantasy for the two of you, give his all to you...but settle for knowing he's not really getting all from either of you in return?
 
MightyMax said:
...if you need a rule to protect your relationship, you aren't ready.
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This is it. This is all you really need to know. If you're interested in relationships and not just sex romps, then this thought will guide you there. Rules and endless conversations about parameters will never lead you to real relationships, for a whole host of reasons, all of which are mentioned in this thread and in those essays posted.






From the essay posted by Emm:

"So, you just posted on this really cool Poly forum that your friend told you about. You posted that you and your partner are ready to open up your relationship and find a special person to add to it. For some reason, a ton of people seemed upset at your post and started replying with a bunch of hostile, snarky comments that didn't describe you at all. They told you that you were doing it wrong, that you are bad for wanting to find someone, and that you should go read a book. Wait, I thought these people were Poly?! Aren't they supposed to be open and accepting? What's the deal?

One thing that many of them said was that you are a “Unicorn Hunter”. Not knowing what they meant, you asked your good friend Google what a “Unicorn Hunter” was, and you figured that out. A “Unicorn” is that rare, mythical figure that many couples look for, a polyamorous, bisexual woman (Yay! That sounds great!), someone who might want to date both you and your partner. That sounds good. That means that “Unicorn Hunters” are a couple who are looking for that person to join their Dyad, to make a Triad.....making a Triad, isn't that what Poly is? Isn't that the point? What the hell is wrong with that? Why did all of these people have such a major stick up their butt?

Well, it's not that simple......."
 
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msmall007 said:
Is it possible to start to form this new type of relationship, allowing some level of intimacy and emotional connection between the three of us while holding back enough from ‘him’ to protect and preserve ours?
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I want to highlight your question again. The answer is no. What you are asking for is a contradiction in terms. An intimate relationship...with doors barricading intimacy. Emotional connection...but not quite.

The expectation that intimacy can be built to your exact specified level, like some kind of designer home. Emotions don't work that way.

The best writing I've ever seen on what you're asking comes from Franklin Veux's site, More than Two:

What I thought I was signing up for was an emotionally restricted relationship. I thought that the risk was the same risk you have in any emotionally restricted relationship: unreciprocated investment and unrequited love. Sure, it hurts, but then it burns itself out because nothing feeds it.

But primary/secondary structures tend to leave a special kind of emotional wreckage. While I freely admit that it is often a mutually beneficial model for all involved, there is a hidden trap. Because sometimes we walk into this structure, with heart in hand, and sometimes our partner meets us there. And then the structure becomes a maze of slamming doors and booby traps. When your partner meets you with real intimacy and love within an externally enforced and non-negotiable framework of limitations, the emotional experience of the relationship is of being simultaneously pulled in and violently shoved out. The cognitive dissonance is even worse. Self-advocacy is often interpreted as homewrecking, and disruptions to the status quo are seen as a hostile act.​
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You are asking if someone can be LESS THAN, yet be amazingly in love with you and her. No. They can't and won't. If they try, I can guarantee it's a short lived thing before he starts having issues with it.
 
Hello Michael, From reading the responses, while you may not be ready for poly, don't dismiss sex. We started with a MFM, and after a few we have a close male friend that she can have sex with when it happens, he is a good friend. Circumstances make our mfm, impractical. It took us a few guys to find one we were both good with.
It is a little strange at first sharing your GF with another guy. But we have grown to like it. There was no jealousy present during 3somes, but we are older and quite over drama.
You are in a new relationship with Sarah, I wonder if you are a little scared? I would be and there is noting wrong with it, take your time, have fun and good luck
 
I get that you might be feeling defensive around the criticism you've received. But really, nobody here thinks you're a bad person. After all, you're asking questions, seeking the advice of experienced people, and not just trying to place a Craigslist ad. Asking questions is good.

Your fantasy is obviously a very common one, as there are so many articles already written about it. There's a big gap between the fantasy and the reality, and that gap is mainly due to this: the inherent dignity of the other human.

If you want someone who's willing (and eager) to be equally involved with both of you, but also willing (and happy) to have limits, to be secondary, you have to put yourself in their shoes. Why would they want that? Why would they want to commit the time and energy to that sort of relationship, knowing they won't ever meet the warmth of your whole heart, your deepest love?

Maybe they want the financial security of living with you rent free. Maybe they have other priorities in life than relationships, and in pursuing those priorities, they can only give you limited attention.

But that's the riddle you've got to figure out. You're asking a lot from someone. What can you offer in return? Sex doesn't count-- there are tons of opportunities for sex. This is about relationships.

I hope you understand that nobody is attacking you or criticizing you-- just your idea. Fantasies are fine, but when you try to make this kind of fantasy a reality, people can get hurt. A lot.
 
Hi Micheal, welcome to the forums!

I want to second Becca, that the criticism is of the fantasy and not for you personally. Your desire to keep and improve your current relationship is totally understandable.

That said, your fantasy is also quite a common one and generally met with harsh criticism (for some very good reasons!). Usually unicorn hunters are a straight couple hunting for a single girl who will be dedicated only to them, play a "secondary" (meaning "after and of lesser value than the primary") role, and generally be an on-call girlfriend to spice things up for the couple, who are the main focus.

Note: "Secondary" in poly terminology usually does not have a connotation equivalent to "second-class".

As you may have gathered by now, this is offensive and most self respecting people are not seeking this position, which is why it is referred to as a Unicorn (amazing, perfect, and somewhere between extremely rare to non-existent).

The most important thing in dealing with others (IMO) is that you are genuine and clear about your intentions.
 
Think about these rules you are proposing: If you expect and would require that a guy you get involved with can only have sex with the two of you at the same time -- no sneaking off with the girlfriend! Threesomes only! -- does that mean you are willing to agree that you and your girlfriend won't have sex with each other unless he is there? Because if you wouldn't promise that you two can also only have threesome sex with him, and never sneak off with each other, then perhaps you can see the ridiculousness and unkindness of this kind of rule.

And, you know, threesomes get tiresome and boring after a while, if that is the only kind of sex you're "allowed" to have. What a yawn.
 
Yup, there are a lot of reasons why this set-up could be problematic for a potential third person. I'd also emphasise that this is a weak set-up for you, too. If you both really like this third person, it is almost inevitable that you'd want to develop connections separately. Having overly restrictive rules like 'no separate sex' means these rules are highly likely to be broken at some point.

For example: You've all had a steamy, intimate threesome, and fallen asleep exhausted together. Bliss. The next day, your girlfriend suddenly remembers an early morning commitment and has to hurry off to that. You and your shared boyfriend can get up a bit later, and - really - you feel lazy.

Eh, you'll just sleep in. Your girlfriend has a final, reluctant snuggle and drags herself out of bed. When she's in the shower, you cuddle and snooze with the boyfriend. This feels natural. Mmm. He starts pressing his hardening dick against you. Ah, damn, rules must be followed! "Er, we should get out of bed," you tell him. It feels a bit awkward, but you both get up. After all, rules are rules.

Your girlfriend has gotten ready surprisingly quickly and is about to leave... Does the boyfriend have to leave too? Can you and he be alone in the house together? Surely it'll be fine, for a bit. Everyone shares glances. Your girlfriend shrugs, kisses you both and heads off.

You have a coffee with the boyfriend and use relatively platonic voices. But there's serious tension in the air, and you both keeping thinking about last night... Uh. This will be fine as long as you don't touch.

I could go on ;) Basically, if you establish strict rules about how you're going to 'manage' this connection, you're sabotaging yourselves because you or your girlfriend will most likely break those rules. It's like laying down a maze of landmines in a field, then getting high and racing motorbikes through it.

Rules can make it harder to judge when something is actually a problem for you. Reverse the scenario above. You had to leave in the morning, and you left your girlfriend and the boyfriend home alone. They didn't go back to bed, but they did start kissing in the kitchen, and things progressed... ok, she admits to you later that things got pretty heavy at one point and the boyfriend fucked her briefly before she stopped things because she knew they were breaking a rule.

Was this crossing a line for you? Maybe you would have been ok about it... but since it's "breaking a rule", it feels to you like an act of disrespect, rather than just something that happened. The act of "rule breaking" itself has symbolic weight. Rules can be powerful like that, so be careful where you put them.
 
Nycindie makes a great point-- threesome sex is fun as a novelty, but way boring when it's the only kind of sex.
 
msmall007 said:
Is it possible to start to form this new type of relationship, allowing some level of intimacy and emotional connection between the three of us while holding back enough from ‘him’ to protect and preserve ours?
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What kinds of things are you wanting to "hold back?"

I think every polyship is made up of all the mini relationships within it.

There is

  • you + Sarah
  • You + Dude
  • Sarah + Dude

There are also how the couples deal with the other

  • (you + Sarah) + Dude
  • (You + Dude) + Sarah
  • (Sarah + Dude) + You

And everyone together

  • (Sarah+Dude + You)

I don't mean sex either. (Thought do talk about sex health practices)

I mean communication, trust, etc. All those mini relationships have to be healthy for the larger one to be healthy.

In that sense? YES. There could be some things you and Sarah keep to just yourselves. Serious or silly. If you have a joint checking account, you aren't passing access to that around willy nilly to everyone you date, right? If you have a shared fav mug -- it's not a biggie to keep it to just you guys. Dude doesn't have to be in on EVERYTHING you guys share.

But understand that the other dyad's will have those things too. And you could give them that space when it is (Sarah+ Dude), and ask for that space from Sarah when it is (You + Dude.) Respect matters.

Talk about how to handle poly hell and what open model you are trying to practice together. It's fine if you want a primary-secondary model but all the other people have to want it too and be happy in the role they sign up for. All could know going into it that it has limitations and it may want to become something else over time -- like co-primary model.

Talk about how you want things to end if they have to end. Does that mean back how it started or all the way down to everyone single?

I think you guys could talk some more before starting to date.

Galagirl
 
Hello Michael,

Re (from OP):
"Is it possible to start to form this new type of relationship, allowing some level of intimacy and emotional connection between the three of us while holding back enough from 'him' to protect and preserve ours?"
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It may be possible, although I'm uncomfortable about the idea, specifically the part about holding back from him, secondly the fact that you're giving the Michael-Sarah dyad priority and privilege that the added man won't have. Suffice it to say, make sure he knows that's what he's signing up for, right from the beginning.

I can appreciate that you want to preserve and protect the relationship you have, and that's the reason for holding back and being the primary couple in the triad. I don't mean to rain on your parade.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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