Open relationship jealousy

[Intjleogoat]

I've searched the Internet long and hard for a place where my problem may fit. This is not a poly thing, as much a non-monogamous issue.

This is sort of rambling, I know. I'm usually used to figuring out complex situations in my life, but this time I'm at a lose. I'm trying to digest thoughts in my head, so I'm sort of looking for validation in my complex feelings. Yea I know I don't need external validation, but it's a need to know if my feelings are something my emotions are falsely showing me. Maybe, I'm just right on point, and it's a natural process.

Yes, me and my lovely wife had been (more like still in the process) in discussing opening our marriage. We've been talking about this for over two years, we have read as many articles and forums. We have dissected every bit of information we can find. Our conversations have been very solid, and she is very supportive of my feelings so far.

The jealousy issue I have right now is like an amusement park. See, I don't care if everybody is going to the park and riding all the rides. Now, my partner, companion, essentially my spouse, I'd rather we do everything at a similar (not same) pace. It's like we are talking about going to the park, but now she has a ticket, but I don't have one. She has not gone, so she is not getting on any rides, but I'm having problems even getting a ticket.

So what does all this mean? Well in short, not dancing around the subject. There is a guy, she is totally feeling this guy. Where we hang out (used to be just us), we all hang out now. Hanging out with the guy, he's really cool, in actuality me and him are very much alike. It's just that, seeing all the flirting, the connecting the energy leaves me a little left out. This has become less a open situation, as more a bizarre poly like situation. The problem with that, is I can't divide nor be divided in this, as in I need to have one on one conversation, not group.

There is not a fear of trust. We are constantly communicating with each other. With our conversation, she assured me even if all the stars aligned, she wouldn't be interested in any relationship or dating for at the soonest one year. Not to mention, we are both aware of this guys situation. There is nothing that they can do, nor advance at this time that would be a problem to our arrangement. But, what I know she is very good at maintaining friendships for very long periods. I'm alright with the fact that she would like to keep him on the hook until we say it's a go, which is what she is doing.

But I question, how do one balance when, someone seems to have all the speed and fun, when you're having trouble getting out the gate. I don't want to pull her out of her potential, because I have none right now. Even if she pulls back, and lose her option and I finally gain one, now she's in my shoes, because meeting people you can connect with is actually rare for both of us. Paradox of sorts.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

Just to clarify....

• Your wife currently has a crush on a potential in the wings. You guys haven't totally Opened so she isn't going to jump the gun. But you all hang out with him sometimes and you notice the flirty crush energy.
  
• You do not have a potential in the wings. You feel left out from flirty crush energy not having a potential in the wings. You wish you had one yourself. You envy what your wife has and would like it for yourself.
  
• You also miss hanging out with just your wife. Now you all hang out as a trio.

Is that it?

If so, I think you could ask your wife out on a date, just you two. Set up a standing night if you like. But let her know that while you like the guy and don't mind hanging out with him sometimes as a trio, not getting to hang out as a duo any more bothers you.

Eventually if you guys do decide to open a year from now and she pursues this person? She's going to want to hang out with him alone too. So there has to be time management in balance -- May as well practice time management now while it is few layers before that layer and other layers come on.

It takes time and money to date -- so talk about how to keep those budgets in balance.

RIGHT NOW

• Time you spend alone. (I assume green is good here.)
• Time wife spends alone. (I assume green is good here.)
• Time with (you and wife) alone. <--- being neglected right now. Orange for caution since yellow is too light to read. Solve it early before it goes red.
• Time with (you and wife and BF.) <-- That seems green. You all get along ok.

NOT YET BUT LATER (grey because these layers aren't on yet)

• Time with (wife and BF) alone.
• Time with (you and GF) alone.
• Time with (you and wife and GF.)
• Time with (you and wife and BF and GF.)

It's ok to feel weird as you wait for the "new normal" to arrive. You guys are discussing a big change so the old normal is not it any more. And the "new normal" hasn't fully arrived yet either. You are in an in-between space.

I think that you could reduce the weird and the pings of transition by continuing to communicate openly. Let her know that time management is becoming a pinch for you right now and then talk about solving it before it gets more stressful. If you also start dating that is yet another person to fit into the calendar that uses time management resources. Time is not infinite.

Galagirl

 

[Intjleogoat]

Thank you GalaGirl, that is pretty correct. I spent so much time thinking, that it feels like my brain is on fire. I'm now kind of annoyed with myself, I did not think maybe a date would work. That will most likely be my next step, but I wouldn't have time open up for a while.

We actually discussed this to great degree a couple of days ago. At the time that eased me, knowing about intention and timing of it all. But, as the days progressed, it's still a bother, it's like how I work, my mind processes quickly, but emotions are slow. I just want to be more supportive, less a wet blanket.

Sure, it would be nice to have a potential girlfriend, it is that the reasoning for our slow movement is me getting back into socializing. She was born a total extrovert, I am more antisocial. She (my wife), understands fully, and does not feel I'm holding her back. Hobbies do not feel the same right now, and just concerns me that I feel like I'm being a villain. Is there any online source that deals with something like this. I'm sorry if I make anyone think that I'm using this as my personal Google, but I figure this is the closest place to experts.

 

[GalaGirl]

Instead of zeroing in on the one orange line, could choose to be glad you have 3 green layers, and the orange is only at that caution place. It's pretty good overall. Just needs a slight tweak. Also doesn't have to be a fancy date. Even movie nite at home or wake up extra 15 min early to share special breakfast coffee is fine. The point is reconnection.

But, as the days progressed, it's still a bother, it's like how I work, my mind processes quickly, but emotions are slow. I just want to be more supportive, less a wet blanket

Hobbies do not feel the same right now, and just concerns me that I feel like I'm being a villain.

Why not just call yourself a person on a learning curve? Because that is what you are. Why amplify it to doom places?

I believe feelings ensue after behavior. I see you call yourself names like "wet blanket" and "villain" in your thinking behavior. You then feel bad as a result of that behavior.

Nobody enjoys being bullied with insults. Why are you being your own self bully?

If you value a healthy relationship with your wife there has to be time and space set aside to be connecting IN otherwise you grow apart. You recognizing the relationship needs this to stay healthy is not you being "needy whiny baby" or something. It's just you recognizing something that needs to be attended to.

It is NORMAL to feel like crap if you just got insulted by someone close to you. It's not kind, loving or supportive for them to do that. So work on catching yourself when YOU do it to yourself. There's enough to process with entering into poly without adding bonus load on top by calling yourself names and beating up on yourself. If you want to be more supportive, I hope that means you want to be supportive of YOU too. If this is a habit, I suggest you work on losing it.

The other thing I would suggest is to learn about emotional flooding. For me it takes at least 3 days to clear that kind of brain dump chemistry -- the whole "fight, flee, or freeze" thing. She JUST talked to you a few days ago -- your "window" to clear flooded chemistry might be different than mine. And if you keep re-triggering yourself by calling yourself names, excess ruminating, etc? You just start the window all over again because a new load of stress chemistry dump happens.

Galagirl

 

[vinsanity0]

I felt similar when Cat and I opened our marriage. She had tons of options and I felt like I had none. I really wish I had found this forum back then. It was a struggle, but I finally let go of that. Eventually I found women to see and everything is fine now.

 

[LillyFM]

My husband is too busy to date atm, so I don't have experience with it, but I've seen posted quite a few times on here about how it is much harder for married men to find women them the vice versa. What methods are you using to put yourself out there to find your ticket, so to speak?

I would also agree about how spending quality time (even if it is something small) is probably beneficial to you and your wife right now.

 

[IndieSolo]

You have to remember that opening up your relationship to polyamory is not a race or a competition. Accept that the two of you are two autonomous beings with your own unique outlook, desires, and needs, whether you are married to each other or not, and the pace is NEVER going to be the same or similar in pursuing this. There may be periods when it looks similar, and you might derive comfort from that, but you are two different people and having relationships with other people will change everything. Even if you both met and started getting involved with other people at exactly the same time, one relationship might progress quickly and the other quite slowly, because there are now two new and different dynamics coming into play and whirling about your lives.

If I were you, anytime I had a thought like, "This is not going the way I had hoped," or "she's got something that I want and don't have - it wasn't supposed to be like this," I would step back a little and observe that thought instead of investing in it and using it to feel sorry for yourself, or angry. Just stop for a moment and say, "Ah, there's that thought again," and realize it is a pattern of thinking, based in feelings of lack or limitation, that does not need to control your life and how you live it.

Instead, why not embrace the adventure and the unknown?

No, you don't know how things will go for either of you. She may wind up with ten lovers to your one or two, or she might find herself falling in love while you're having only one night stands... and then, because change is the only absolute in life and nothing is permanent, things may shift and seem to be in your favor for a while... but so what? Remind yourself that it's not a contest.

What did you sign up for? Why did you want to shift to a polyamorous arrangement? Was it to expand your lives so you could give to and experience love, affection, and lust with other people? To enjoy the deliciousness of discovering a new lover's body? To learn more about yourself and become more self-aware through the development of new, intimate relationships? To improve and stimulate your lives together by acknowledging and honoring each other's autonomy and individual needs for intimacy and love? Or was it to constantly compare who is getting more in order to keep pace with each other so that it all stays fair and even-steven? To be able to say you have a girlfriend and she has a boyfriend and we're all very comfortable and happy? Doesn't that sound achingly dull and boring compared to the previous things I mentioned? Perhaps you would both do well to ask yourselves what you really hope to gain from polyamory.

If you seek out another relationship with the attitude that this is a lovely adventure you're on, and you're excited to see who's around the corner, you will have much better success and much more fun than if you seek out someone just to keep score because your wife has a beau so you should have someone, too. Besides, no one who might be interested in dating you will want to be a prize to prove that you could compete with your wife - they will want you to be with them for them, to enjoy their company and look forward to seeing them again, etc.

Life is never going to stop surprising and exciting you, if you are open to it.

 

[Intjleogoat]

You have to remember that opening up your relationship to polyamory is not a race or a competition. Accept that the two of you are two autonomous beings with your own unique outlook, desires, and needs, whether you are married to each other or not, and the pace is NEVER going to be the same or similar in pursuing this. There may be periods when it looks similar, and you might derive comfort from that, but you are two different people and having relationships with other people will change everything. Even if you both met and started getting involved with other people at exactly the same time, one relationship might progress quickly and the other quite slowly, because there are now two new and different dynamics coming into play and whirling about your lives.

If I were you, anytime I had a thought like, "This is not going the way I had hoped," or "she's got something that I want and don't have - it wasn't supposed to be like this," I would step back a little and observe that thought instead of investing in it and using it to feel sorry for yourself, or angry. Just stop for a moment and say, "Ah, there's that thought again," and realize it is a pattern of thinking, based in feelings of lack or limitation, that does not need to control your life and how you live it.

Instead, why not embrace the adventure and the unknown?

No, you don't know how things will go for either of you. She may wind up with ten lovers to your one or two, or she might find herself falling in love while you're having only one night stands... and then, because change is the only absolute in life and nothing is permanent, things may shift and seem to be in your favor for a while... but so what? Remind yourself that it's not a contest.

What did you sign up for? Why did you want to shift to a polyamorous arrangement? Was it to expand your lives so you could give to and experience love, affection, and lust with other people? To enjoy the deliciousness of discovering a new lover's body? To learn more about yourself and become more self-aware through the development of new, intimate relationships? To improve and stimulate your lives together by acknowledging and honoring each other's autonomy and individual needs for intimacy and love? Or was it to constantly compare who is getting more in order to keep pace with each other so that it all stays fair and even-steven? To be able to say you have a girlfriend and she has a boyfriend and we're all very comfortable and happy? Doesn't that sound achingly dull and boring compared to the previous things I mentioned? Perhaps you would both do well to ask yourselves what you really hope to gain from polyamory.

If you seek out another relationship with the attitude that this is a lovely adventure you're on, and you're excited to see who's around the corner, you will have much better success and much more fun than if you seek out someone just to keep score because your wife has a beau so you should have someone, too. Besides, no one who might be interested in dating you will want to be a prize to prove that you could compete with your wife - they will want you to be with them for them, to enjoy their company and look forward to seeing them again, etc.

Life is never going to stop surprising and exciting you, if you are open to it.

All really good points, that too was something we discussed already. We are both in understanding this isn't a race nor competition (though we are highly competitive with each other). Guidelines we set are only for how we start. Without getting into too much detail, this is not to be a permanent arrangement. Our agreement is to progress at the slowest persons pace, which right now it's me.

As I awoke today, with my head a little clearer, it's less envious about her ability to advance. I find that, I'm trying to unravel these mixed feelings and find the most logical solution to a problem. Simply put, I'm too guarded, I've never given any reason for anyone to be part of my life (this goes for male friends too). I was pretty much the type that discard "friendships" when they outworn their use, so it's more like an urgency. I have become envious over time at the fact, that she can make genuine friends, for me I have always kept things singular. It's become an issue that, the reason I don't want to do this, is I will only amount to a bunch of useless one night stands.

 

[IndieSolo]

Not all one night stands are "useless" or meaningless. It is possible to connect on a "heart and soul" level with someone you will never see again. We can be affected and impacted positively by a one night stand with someone as long as you enter into the liaison consciously and respectfully, and not via a desperate drunken hookup to avoid feelings. It's a love-the-one-you're-with "Be Here Now" sort of thing. If we approached every interaction in our lives like it will be the last, we would savor every precious moment and make the most of it. There is nothing wrong with having multiple sex partners who love you once or twice and then go their way while you go yours. Loving someone just means opening your heart to them, being vulnerable, enjoying who they are without judgment - it doesn't have to mean falling in love and wanting to move in together.

There is a man I loved wholeheartedly once, for one night, whom I have not seen nor heard from since, and I still look back on him fondly and with affection. I loved him and he loved me, for just that one time way back in 1990, and those moments we shared changed me, touched me deeply. Nope, it was not a "useless" one night stand!

 

[Bluebird]

I met DarkKnight on a one night stand, which morphed into two wonderful days together in Boston. That was supposed to be the end of things. We started texting, and two weeks later I relocated to Houston from New York. We've been together for ten years now. Never underestimate one night stands!

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Intjleogoat,

So, you are saying to your wife, "Honey, I don't mind if you see this other guy on a social basis. But please don't have sex with him." Am I understanding that part correctly?

Do you want that to change? What would need to happen in order for it to change?

Just looking to better familiarize myself with your situation.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

If this is the core thing....

Simply put, I'm too guarded, I've never given any reason for anyone to be part of my life (this goes for male friends too). I was pretty much the type that discard "friendships" when they outworn their use, so it's more like an urgency. I have become envious over time at the fact, that she can make genuine friends, for me I have always kept things singular. It's become an issue that, the reason I don't want to do this, is I will only amount to a bunch of useless one night stands.

.... are you not willing or not able to change your mind?

Choose to be less guarded?

Choose to stop viewing friendships as things to use and then discard?

Choose to stop keeping everything singular?

What is your desired outcome?

Galagirl

 

[Intjleogoat]

I do want to say thank you, all input here I am taking in. I also apologize about the one night stand comment, most people I come across who seem interested in that, only want that. We are on a bathroom break from our conversation at the moment. I truly believe her when she said, she refuse to proceed unless I have the same opportunity, she wants it for us, not just her. Our plan was for a year out, if something for me materialize, it's a go, if not she herself refuse to proceed.

 

[IndieSolo]

I do want to say thank you, all input here I am taking in. I also apologize about the one night stand comment, most people I come across who seem interested in that, only want that.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with someone wanting only one night stands or more casual liaisons if everyone is respectful, aware, and conscious of the choices being made. Engaging in those kinds of interactions can still enrich your journey into poly land.

I truly believe her when she said, she refuse to proceed unless I have the same opportunity, she wants it for us, not just her. Our plan was for a year out, if something for me materialize, it's a go, if not she herself refuse to proceed.

What happens if at the year mark, she and a boyfriend are in love, but you haven't made that kind of connection? Has she considered that? Her own rule means she has to dump him? Not very kind to him, or her. Poly should never be an experiment or be run under conditions like that, because there are other people involved, who will invest their hearts and lives - the world won't revolve around the two of you just because you're married. Deciding to have an open arrangement isn't all about the couple - you need to be sensitive and considerate of everyone who gets involved!

 

[Intjleogoat]

What happens if at the year mark, she and a boyfriend are in love, but you haven't made that kind of connection? Has she considered that? Her own rule means she has to dump him? Not very kind to him, or her. Poly should never be an experiment or be run under conditions like that, because there are other people involved, who will invest their hearts and lives - the world won't revolve around the two of you just because you're married. Deciding to have an open arrangement isn't all about the couple - you need to be sensitive and considerate of everyone who gets involved!

For one, it's pretty hard to fall in love when you're not dating. I haven't nor has she falling in love with a stranger in over twenty years, so at this point, I'm not concerned. Dating, term used loosely, isn't for another year. That's why I said it's a hard area, because it's not based on a full dating scenario. There's no overnights, there's no chore sharing or other general life assist, giving the guys current situation and past, she has zero interest in a life with him. This is more of an arrangement where as to take friends to a higher level. We've both had friends in the past, connected with them on great levels, they even had what some would call great relationship aspects. We never had to face one of us running off. Believe me when I say, we put all aspects of conversation in play. On another board I've read a couple who did something similar to what we are doing, and they have been back closed for ten years and happy. I chose this board because it's the closest to our dynamics in which we seek. This is not about making a second life, the first one was hard enough, but if she does that's fine, because we both know we will be 70yo with someone else, just to get where we are with each other. We have over twenty years of experience together, we are closer with each other than our on blood relatives. No, we are not bored with each other we had that talk too when it came up. If I thought that this was something we couldn't handle doing, it would not be happening. I, just like to be very well informed, I'm logical, and analytical, I only seek peer review to compare ideas and thoughts in my own head. Pretty much everywhere on the net I have been, the information I have ruled out, after our conversation yesterday my head is more clear. My current plans has not been altered by much, quite frankly this year will determine if this alteration may happen.

 

[IndieSolo]

Okay, now I am totally confused. Sorry if I've completely misunderstood.

You say she isn't dating, but in your first post you said she "has a guy." But now you mention a "stranger." Do you mean she has only casual sex with strangers? If so, who is "the guy" she "has?" If she "has a guy," is she only in a platonic friendship with him, or are they sexually intimate? You don't think they can fall in love??? You think being in love only means building a life together, or "running off" to live together?? You should read these forums more - there are many, many lifestyles and arrangements in which one can love and be loved by multiple people. Love is just a feeling you have for someone, and it can arise in any situation where people share intimacy of all kinds.

I am not sure how to follow your story. Can you explain a little more clearly who is who and what the relationships are, exactly? Without specifics, it is hard to offer feedback or advice. Thanks!

 

[tenK]

I'm also confused. If you think falling in love hinges on being involved in situations where these things aren't negated (i.e. happening, instead of not happening in your wording):

no overnights[…] no chore sharing or other general life assist...

then I think you are setting both of you up for failure. It's eminently possible to fall in love with people you don't have these kinds of feelings for or interactions with. And as for finding security in the fact that she (or you) haven't fallen in love with "a stranger" in 20-odd years of being together…well, all I can say is that for those years your mind and hearts were probably not even open a crack to the possibility. It is a different scenario once you open the scope of possibility up even a little bit. I think you should be prepared for the fact that either of you, especially her given that she is the more social of the two of you, could meet someone fairly easily simply by virtue of having your eyes open for the first time in a few decades.

It's hard when your partner is more successful dating-wise than you. Believe me, I have been there myself. It's not always a 'women have it easy/men have it hard' situation. Me and my partner are both women, she just has more sex appeal and allure than I do, and honestly, sometimes that seriously sucks because it's hard not to make comparisons. However, in those situations you just have to take a deep breath and try to resist that urge. As others have said, it will never be equal. The promises your partner has made to you to stop looking in a year if you haven't found someone you want to pursue? In your position, I wouldn't hold her to it. Undoubtedly she is making that assertion in good faith. Possibly because she sees in you all the lovely things she's attracted to, and what an awesome person you are, she can't imagine that you would find it difficult to attract another mate. Yet for you to hinge her ability to date upon your own ability to date…something in that equation is just plain wrong. Either you are on board with poly or you're not. Opening your relationship is not a guarantee that you will find positive relationships - only a guarantee that you have the freedom to look for them. If you're not interested in having that freedom, if you only feel like you should be entitled to a particular outcome and that your willingness to proceed along this journey hinges upon a guarantee of a personal pay-off at the end, then you should be upfront with her and say that you are not interested in taking this path with her. I can't see it ending well for you guys if you have this constant need for 'catch up' with each other.

 

[FallenAngelina]

We never had to face one of us running off.

I find this whole thread confusing, but just want to add that falling in love doesn't equal "running off" with that person. I fell in love on the first date with someone I'm currently dating about once a week, so frequency and domestic entanglement have nothing to do with the depth of love. Polyamory is about loving people, so what's with all of the admonitions and protections against love here?

Confused - yes.