It's a Texlahoma Story

Heh, very interesting and honest observations. I dunno if it's because you're from Texas... I get the idea Southerners and Texans are more into being girly girls. My niece in Florida, a 20 something, colors her hair light blonde, wears it long and perfectly straightened, and trowels on the makeup, and she tans. She wears the latest fashions too.

I dunno, I am all over the map.

I love fashion as art. I like looking at gowns on the awards shows this time of year! So fun. It's OK for the celebs to diet to a size 0, and wax everything, and dye their hair and pose just so. I like looking at sexy ladies, being bi. I like sexy women in corsets with their boobs pushed up at kink events, and their high uncomfortable shoes look hot to me. I'd just never wear them myself. (My gf does, and I love it.) I love colorful artistic tattoos. I am just more butch. I can be soft butch to femme but I HAVE to be comfortable (except I like pain when it's of the impact or clothespins, or hot wax kind, lol).

Recently I went out to dinner with my bf Punk, and I wore a black velour tunic, black and white leopard leggings, and black ankle boots with silver studs on them (Steve Maddens I got at a thrift store, like new, $10). Punk had a blue Mohawk for 10 years when he was a bit younger and in a punk band. Went the full punk fashion thing with red plaid zippered pants, etc. Funny now, he's kind of a metrosexual. He keeps his hair nice, and beard trimmed. He loves to wear cashmere pullovers he finds at the thrift store. He has good taste in designer jeans. For our dinner where I wore leopard, he wore grey and black plaid wool pants that fit like a glove, with a grey shirt, darker grey tie, and black blazer. Looked awesome. Quite dapper. I like to photograph him since he likes to do these male model poses. It's really funny, but also hot. There's a sense of irony, social commentary, and fun.

I have always been somewhere on the hippie/punk/alternative fashion spectrum, if I am dressed up at all, and not just lounging and scrounging around in a tshirt and sweats. My career choices as a florist, homeschooling mom, or presently, childcare worker, require clothes that are comfortable and can get dirty with mud or slime or flung food or spit up lol.

I don't mind seeing women on FL who have their roots showing, or less than model-perfect bodies. I love when women over 40 are raved over and drooled over by men. With their post pregnancy tummies and drooping breasts, full thighs and all that. I prefer real bodies to the "bimbo" or super-Barbie look some on there purposely go for, with tons of makeup, dyed hair, fake boobs, super high platform shoes.

A couple things do bug me. When I see a pic of some kind of sex, a hot guy jacking it, a couple having sex or kink, whatever, and you can see the room is a perfect mess, clothes all over the floor, no "decor" at all, bare walls, just random crap all over. That kills the romance for me.

The other thing that bugs me is when a woman has a shot of a closeup of her pussy, spreading it with her fingers, and her nails have been painted at some point, but they are chipped and ragged or look bitten to the quick. Turn off for me! Ready for my closeup, Mr deMille-- not!

Funny how we all get bugged by different things. As far as maintaining a perfectly groomed appearance... my mom was something of a fashion plate, and she impressed on me and my sister how to "package" ourselves. Back then in the early '60's, you had ideal women celebs like Marilyn Monroe or Liz Taylor, and it was something you were to aspire to, to get a husband. Women didn't have choices, it wasn't about making them feel good and pretty for themselves, it was about catching and keeping a Man. Woe betide you if you didn't! My mom had small boobs and such a complex about them! Back then you needed big pointy breasts or you were a loser.

I rebelled against that in my teens, going with a different standard of beauty that, at the time, included long hair (no rollers, no hairspray), no bra (I had small boobs until I got pregnant), painters pants or overalls, tshirts, or tops from India, funky shoes. Never wore high heels, hated "hose," except black tights in the winter to keep warm on the rare occasion I wore a long hippie skirt. I didn't shave my legs or pits for years. Of course, no one shaved their cooches back then.

I stayed a hippie until the late 70s. I didn't get into the "disco" Farrah Fawcett look of layered blow dried hair, or high waisted tight bell bottoms, or lots of makeup. Debbie Harry was a role model of mine. If I was going to look all femme, it was in an ironic way. I got into punk in the late 70s. I am attracted to alternative fashion to this day. I've never owned a woman's business suit, either skirted or with trousers! I've never owned a pair of "pumps." I don't wear "shapewear."

To each their own!
 
Magdlyn, it's SUCH a Southern thing... My mom was from Georgia, my dad's family is from Tennessee, lived in Dallas most of my life, so yeah :eek:

Shapewear, Jesus, fuck that shit. I feel like the last holdout in the fight against Spanx. If you REALLY care about looking like you have a flat tummy, wouldn't it be easier to just do crunches 10 minutes a day than wear uncomfortable stuff 8+ hours a day??? Most women I know here wear it even in the Texas summer heat, though. So to each their own, exactly!
 
I definitely can relate to what you said about looking your best being a way to reclaim yourself. When I left Alt and Country's father, I wore baggy shirts and jeans. It was only about a year and a half after I lost nearly 100 pounds, and I was still dressing like I was at my top weight, trying to hide or camouflage fat that wasn't there anymore. At the same time, I had a lot of excess skin left from that weight loss, as I said in my blog post, and I had to dress to camouflage that. I wasn't sure whether to love my body because I'd lost the weight, conquered diabetes in doing so, and reclaimed my health; or to hate my body because the weight was gone but the skin wasn't, and never would be unless I could afford surgery.

In addition to all that, throughout our marriage, my ex tried to use my appearance to control me. Before I had Alt (which was when my weight went up), he hounded me constantly to "dress sexy" and wear makeup... not so *I* would look good, but so *he* would look good for being with me. The type of clothes he wanted me to wear particularly upset me, since at the same time he wanted me to look sexy, he was calling me a slut and whore for enjoying sex. I couldn't stand up to him; that only led to more verbal abuse, and I didn't have the confidence anyway since by that point I was conditioned to believe I deserved to be treated like shit. So I quietly, passive-aggressively rebelled by not dressing "sexy", not wearing makeup at all, and only buying clothes that were exactly the opposite of what he wanted me to wear.

After I left him, I kept doing the baggy clothes thing for a long time, other than when I went to parties with the AdultFriendFinder group I belonged to. I enjoyed looking sexy there, because that was kind of the point; and this was during the time I was trying to reclaim and own my sexuality (before I met Hubby and he undid the work I'd done during this time...) But I was a single mom, trying to take care of my kids while not giving their father any reason to hound me or confront me, so other than those parties, I dressed like I had no body at all.

It wasn't until a year or more after I moved in with Hubby that I finally decided I was tired of looking "schlubby." I didn't want the baggy T-shirts and old jeans; I wanted to look nice. *My* idea of nice, no one else's. And because *I* wanted to, not because someone else said I had to. So now I wear what I want to wear, what I feel good in. I still don't wear makeup; that's partly because my fine motor coordination is shaky, so it takes me about three times as long to put it on as it would take others, and partly because trying to put on makeup is still sometimes triggering for me because of my ex. Fortunately, Hubby, who has seen me with makeup on, and Woody, who hasn't, both prefer me without it.

It sounds like you choose to look your best because *you* want to. It makes you feel good about yourself, you enjoy the attention (I admit I like that part too, when I go out dressed up; I do admit to a bit of an exhibitionist streak), and you're happy when you do it.

I look my best for the same reason: It makes me feel good about myself, and it makes me happy.

But *my* best and *your* best are pretty far apart. I've never been a size four, nor could I ever be; my body isn't constructed that way. I don't wear makeup. I have to remind myself that things like body wash and other cosmetics and self-care products exist; I use Ivory soap and "intensive care" lotion and call it good. I don't "pamper" myself in any way, because I don't see the sense in spending the money (and don't have the money to spend, most of the time), and in an apartment with four people and only one bathroom, I don't have time to "pamper" myself anyway. I'm lucky if I have time to shave my legs before someone's banging on the door to get in.

So as you said, while there's nothing inherently wrong with wondering why people don't look "best", it' important to remember that you're judging them based on *your* definition of looking your best... and they might have a vastly different definition.

(And I frigging despise shapewear... it is not made for those of us with excess skin, at least as far as I can tell, because all it's ever done for me is squeeze the skin so it bulges above and below the shapewear garment, instead of holding it in.)
 
Oh, man. You and I see eye to eye on a great many things, I think, but we couldn't be more diametrically opposed on this topic. :D

I'm aware that I'm considered mainstream-culturally attractive as an even-featured, 28-jeans-wearing, Latina/white mix...but my punk rock roots have given me a very non-mainstream view of "upkeep"! The "does a woman have an obligation to keep her legs shaved" OKC question is one of my main parameters for weeding out incompatible suitors!

As long as my roots are less than two inches long, the contrast is part of the look itself. Leggings are great for covering razor stubble. Dry shampoo, baby wipes, and "bird baths" make saving the planet by skipping showers an admirable goal. And if my fingernails ever try to grow past the ends of my fingers, it's time to chop-chop! :rolleyes: Hehehe

And likewise, I'm attracted to some scruff, edginess, and roughness around the edges, with the "clean cut" look leaving me suspicious and bored!

Truly, it takes all kinds! :cool: :p
 
I think it's pretty damn awesome that we can all find our "best". And that there's variety there - because it means everyone can find partners where there's mutual attraction.

We'd all make an interesting group photo, wouldn't we? Dag and Andy and I would look like we got lost on our way to The Gap :p

It's funny, when KC says her best and mine are far apart, I'm thinking, "well yeah, because she doesn't even need makeup!" I hate hate hate the dark circles under my eyes and feel downright ugly without my beloved tinted moisturizer to hide them. And I have insane jealousy for Reverie and Magdlyn being able to pull off the edgy looks. I'm a short, blond, baby faced WASP. I wear leopard or wedge boots, I look like Cher from Clueless :rolleyes:

Seriously, though, you can pry that Gillette from my cold dead hands. Obligation to shave, no, desire to be stubble free, hell yes. I keep contemplating laser hair removal, but K has sunk $2000 into it so far and still has a while to go :eek:
 
I'll just say that I do agree that if one has a big red pimple on one's ass, it is not the best time to take nude pictures and post them on the internet. That is the one thing that always repulses me.

Hahahaha, totally agreed! That was my first observation when I started watching porn back in my early 20s: "But WHY would anyone consent to having their ass zits FILMED!"
 
I'll just say that I do agree that if one has a big red pimple on one's ass, it is not the best time to take nude pictures and post them on the internet. That is the one thing that always repulses me.

And they always seem worse in pictures than they do in real life. Seriously, I can't imagine being repulsed by ass pimples in the flesh as it were. But put them on the internet and it's somehow different.
 
There used to be a Tumblr that was just reblogs of NSFW pictures featuring ass pimples and other genital bumps of unknown provenance... It was a terribly cruel blog idea, and yet I could not help myself, I followed it until they took it down!
 
Some of us here are also on Fet. Start by friending us. At least you know we're not gonna hit on you! LOL. .....I've seen a number of people call Fet "the kinky Facebook," and that's really the best way to use it, in my opinion.

I've really been enjoying Fetlife and focus on the group discussions. There are many aspects to that website and I agree that if you view it as a kind of Facebook, it can serve whatever purpose is right for you. It's not primarily a hookup site, although the inquiries do come. I just field them as I do anywhere else, ignoring and deleting the ones that are silly or of no interest. I find that I make better "friends" when I focus on group discussions or whatever is interesting to me rather than on "finding good friends."
 
A couple things do bug me. When I see a pic of some kind of sex, a hot guy jacking it, a couple having sex or kink, whatever, and you can see the room is a perfect mess, clothes all over the floor, no "decor" at all, bare walls, just random crap all over. That kills the romance for me.

Ageed! The "mess in the background" are by far the most disguising photos on Fetlife! Move that crap off to one side - nobody wants to see your laundry while they watch you do your thing!
 
It's funny, when KC says her best and mine are far apart, I'm thinking, "well yeah, because she doesn't even need makeup!" I hate hate hate the dark circles under my eyes and feel downright ugly without my beloved tinted moisturizer to hide them. And I have insane jealousy for Reverie and Magdlyn being able to pull off the edgy looks. I'm a short, blond, baby faced WASP. I wear leopard or wedge boots, I look like Cher from Clueless :rolleyes:

I do the edgy thing too... I have dermal piercings on my chest and my right cheek, until recently I had spiked hair (I'm growing it out because it's been almost a year since I started doing the spiky thing, and I usually change hairstyles once or twice a year because I enjoy experimenting, especially now with a cosmetologist in the family), and my wardrobe ranges from "appropriate for parent meetings at Country's school" to "miniskirted, spiked and studded, semi-rock-star".

I've learned to find clothes that fit my body, both size-wise and as far as camouflaging the excess skin, and I've also learned to walk like a frigging queen no matter how I dress, which means I can pull off looks that most people would say I shouldn't even attempt "at my age." (Thanks, RuPaul! No, seriously... RuPaul at one point had a show called "Drag U", where drag queens worked with women to help them overcome low confidence, negative body image, and fashion-challengedness. Watching that show is how I got the ideas for changing my wardrobe when I decided to stop doing drab-and-baggy, and that's where I learned how to walk, stand up straight, and own my body and my clothes no matter what I wear or where I am.)

As for makeup... Um, I have dark circles, I have zits (perimenopause), and I'm far from flawless. A lot of people probably would say I need makeup! I'm just fortunate to be involved with men who don't think so, and personally I think I look better without it if for no other reason than it's nearly impossible for me to apply makeup without fucking it up. LOL
 
And I have insane jealousy for Reverie and Magdlyn being able to pull off the edgy looks. I'm a short, blond, baby faced WASP. I wear leopard or wedge boots, I look like Cher from Clueless :rolleyes:

Seriously, though, you can pry that Gillette from my cold dead hands. Obligation to shave, no, desire to be stubble free, hell yes. I keep contemplating laser hair removal, but K has sunk $2000 into it so far and still has a while to go :eek:

ANYONE can pull off edgy! Especially baby-faces! But if it's not your thing, it's not your thing. ;)

And, OMG, yes, laser! I got three sessions in 2014 before I crashed my car and couldn't make it to the place anymore, and as soon as I have some extra money, I am going to start going again. The hair still grows back more sparsely in the growth cycle I got it in. Body hair is the bane of my existence (hello, Spanish blood) and easily affording laser is literally the thing I am most envious of rich people about! :p
 
Work sucked ass today. There is a preschooler in our program who is getting really over attached to me and tantrums when I leave the kid space to do other stuff. Schedules and whatnot mean that I have spent a ton of one on one time with him, but it's starting to be an issue, so now we've decided (we = general staff) that I need to one on one with him less. He spent all day today calling me mean and a bad friend :( Aaaand still threw a fit when I left.

This was posted on OnceAndFuture's blog, but I've cluttered up his page enough ;)

However, the point remains, his rules and boundaries with his wife do impact his relationship with his theoretical new girlfriend, and those rules and boundaries have already been decided without her voice. So I guess she does have a voice, but it's only on take it or leave it.

Isn't that all any of us have, in the end? The choice to take or leave the relationship that is offered to us?

Sure, we can hope for compromise. We can express our needs and hope the other person wants to meet them. But if they won't or can't... :confused: It's not like we can demand someone meet our relationship needs and share our goals. A lot of times that stuff matches up imperfectly, or not at all. And then it's take it or leave it.

It's not a "poly thing", either. Mono couples break up all the time because one wants kids and the other doesn't, or one wants to move for work and the other won't consider long distance. Life is full of take it or leave it. All of us - mono, poly, partnered, single - have stuff we won't budge on.

Dag's time is limited by being an active dad to two kids. His time is also limited by being a partner and spouse to his wife. Both are time/money/energy commitments he made and intends to keep. They both limit what he can give to me. Why would I expect him to rework his marriage to please me? No one would argue that I should try and get him to rethink that whole involved parenting thing ;) They are both in the "take it or leave it" category.

And I don't see how setting up boundaries and expectations within one relationship takes away the voice of other partners. Dag's wife setting boundaries in the Dag+wife relationship doesn't negate my voice in the Dag+Claire relationship. I can still express my needs, have my own boundaries, and, yes, end the relationship if I'm not being treated fairly. I have the exact same voice I'd have in the Dag+Claire relationship if he wasn't married.

Am I crazy? Am I missing something?
 
I don't think you're missing anything--either that, or I am too.

The boundary-setting and voice or lack of becomes an issue if one partner's boundaries overstep the, well, boundaries of their actual role. For example, Hubby and I have an agreement that I won't have sex with any other partner in our apartment. That is a boundary that we set when we first opened our marriage, before either of us had any other partner.

It's a boundary that impacted the FWBs I've had since, impacted Guy and S2 when I was involved with them, and impacts Woody. None of my other partners, past, present, or future, can have sex with me in the home I share with Hubby, and that is a boundary that was set without input from any of those partners. However, I feel it's a boundary that Hubby and I had the right to set, because it is about the home *we* share. (And it was my request in the first place, not Hubby's; he had to think about it before saying "Yeah, you're right, that would be weird.") Woody didn't get input, because that boundary was set long before I ever met Woody. When I told him about the agreement, I included "I can try to negotiate that if it's important to you"; he said, "No, I agree with that boundary". So I guess he did actually get a say.

But... Highlight set a boundary with Woody that he would fluid bond only with her, which Woody agreed to. That impacts me; it doesn't impact Stella or Franki because Woody rarely has sex with either of them, but I have sex with him more frequently than Highlight does, by virtue of schedules and availability. And she made the request after Woody and I had become involved with each other. That's a boundary that I *don't* believe Highlight had the right to set. She has the right to look out for her own sexual health, unquestionably, but I don't think she had the right to tell Woody he has to continue using condoms with me, especially since I've also been tested and can prove my sexual health status. Woody and Highlight made that agreement without my being given an option to say anything, and that one, I do think was unfair. The only "voice" I got was telling Woody I didn't think it was fair, to which he said, "Well, I understand, but I already told her I would make that agreement with her, I'm just informing you."

So, tl/dr: I think there are times when it is acceptable for a couple to make an agreement that might impact other partners without giving those other partners a chance to give input, and times when it isn't. It depends on timing, what the agreement is, and which partner(s) have the most stake in it.
 
Sooo, boundaries. Or guidelines, rules, expectations, fiats, whatever you'd like to call them ;)

Here are mine and Andy's:

1. No having kids with anybody

2. No one moves in with us

3. No legal or financial entanglements with other partners

Short and sweet. Everything else is negotiated on a case by case basis.

We have some other stuff we usually do, but none of it is specific to poly or dating. We let the other know about plans as we make them, try to give a rough time we'll be home, but that's all stuff that happens no matter who we're with, dates, friends, family. Common courtesy basically.

It's weird but we don't have rules at all around when to mention new partners. Have just never needed one. We're both such blabber mouths, I can't imagine either of us having a new interest and not going on about it constantly :eek:

I'm not sure if the rules we do have are super couple privilege-y or not, honestly.

The no kids rule... We're happily child free, so that rule applies to us too!

No one moves in applies equally to poly partners, hard-up friends, and aging family members. When my grandmother was sick, I moved in with her to care for her. We don't even like house guests!

Nothing legally or financially binding is couple privilege, I guess :confused: But all of our assets are joint, and we're legally married, so it's impossible for just one of us to be on the hook. It's one of those true societally enforced couple privileges. Fwiw, we don't keep track of money spent on gifts, entertainment, travel, etc with partners. Just try to be reasonable-ish ;)



Here are mine and Dag's:

Online sexy stuff with other people, flirting, sex with spouses, all assumed to happen, totally ok. Any potential real world new partners will necessitate a discussion and some agreements we haven't thought much about yet.
(This is mostly a safe sex thing since we haven't used condoms in forever)

Birth control!!! Always!!!

Keep each other informed of plans with friends/spouses/kids/family so we know what days and nights are definitely not available.

No photos or mentions on social media.
(This is all Dag, because his wife prefers things DADT.)

Split expenses 50/50 as much as possible.



And... I think that's it??? I may have to come back and add to the Dag list. I'm drinking away my bad day at work and possibly blanking on important shit ;)
 
It's weird but we don't have rules at all around when to mention new partners. Have just never needed one. We're both such blabber mouths, I can't imagine either of us having a new interest and not going on about it constantly :eek:

Yeah, our "rule" on this is pretty unnecessary too, seeing as how we are both totally open with each other and usually squeeing about whomever we are interested in. :rolleyes:


I'm not sure if the rules we do have are super couple privilege-y or not, honestly.

I don't think so. Your rules seem like barebones basics to me—no disrupting each other's living situations, basically. I once had a partner who invited a roommate to stay with us without consulting me (I would have said no), and I was steam-piping-out-of-the-ears FURIOUS about that. There's a difference, I think, between couple privilege and messing with your entire life which is what disruptions to finances, living situtations, and legal obligations would do since you are legally tied to him by marriage and would be on the hook for any trouble he could get himself into.
 
Your rules seem like barebones basics to me—no disrupting each other's living situations, basically.

That's exactly how we think of it.

There is an inherent privilege in the situation, though. We're saying that *our* relationship influences where and how we live, but *other* relationships can't. I'm not blind to that... I just don't see a fix (besides divorcing and living separately, which we don't want to do). It just makes things ridiculously complicated to try and consider every partner in those decisions.

If we wanted to be closer to Anna-Louise, for example, it wouldn't just mean finding a neighborhood we all three liked. She shares custody of her two teen sons with her ex husband and needs to live near him. And he is in a serious relationship and needs to be close to his girlfriend. So... We're selecting a house to be close to my husband's girlfriend's ex-husband's girlfriend's job??? No. I just can't go there. Especially because that set up would privilege the Andy-Anna Louise relationship over his with Stephanie or mine with Dag. Poly can get really fucking complicated.

I think the best we can do is be cognizant of that kind of couple privilege. Be honest about it upfront so new partners know what they're signing up for. Acknowledge that it kind of sucks, sometimes, to not be able to live with or even near someone you love. Try to suck up as much of the inconvenience as we can ourselves, so we're not forcing our partners to rearrange their lives around our couple decisions. Andy and I do A LOT of driving ;)
 
I've realized that I only seem to write about my relationships here when there's stress and conflict - not when things are good. Soooo...

Right now, things are good. So good that it scares me a little, to be honest.

Dag and Andy are totally cool hanging out now :D I have to work to keep myself from being greedy greedy greedy and wanting both of them all the time. I just love the dynamic of it, having my favorite people all together. I realize looking back that my strongest NRE experiences have always been with friend groups that just *click* and make a wonderful energy. Romantic NRE (for me) comes with "does he like me back?" and "where is this going?" worries ... Friend NRE is just pure unadulterated joy. But I don't want to dilute the couple experience I have with either Andy or Dag, so I'm trying to manage the squee feelings and make lots of one on one time happen.

Dag and I are still doing Friday nights as our date night, though I'm not sure how that's going to work long term. Andy and I typically run for the lake as soon as we get out of work on Fridays during the summer - last year was a weird exception because I had surgery, the Andy did, and we ended up barely boating at all. There are tons of cabins and hotels around the lake, so having Friday date nights up there some weeks is a possibility, it's not much further home for Dag than my Dallas house. Or I could drive up alone late night Friday or early Saturday, but that leaves Andy in charge of dog transport and suitcases and food for the weekend... hmmm, I'd have to teach Andy how to operate the grocery store :p

As you can see, life has pretty much settled into "poly normal" ... A lot of fun, a lot of love, a lot of scheduling!

It's funny, the weird cognitive dissonance about poly I have going on. My real life poly experiences have been overwhelmingly awesome. Even the sad break ups were, in retrospect, not THAT bad. Very high school in their melodrama, learning experiences all around, the kind that become funny stories in a few weeks. And yet, I read here or other poly sites and I get these intense feelings of - well, fear, honestly. Sometimes reading threads, I feel like I'm watching a horror movie, wanting to scream, "noooo don't open the creaky basement door!" I really don't know what's up with that. :confused:
 
I am just really burnt out on hearing about all the horrible things people put each other through in the name of love. And all the ridiculous shit people put up with in the name of love.

My worst fear isn't that either Andy or I will fall so crazy mad in love with someone else that it ends our relationship. That would be awful, obviously. But we are both strong people. We'd recover and go on to find meaning and love again.

No, my worst fear is that one of us falls crazy mad in love with another partner, breaks all our agreements, and the other puts up with it. That we love each other too much to leave, even if staying meant guaranteed pain and suffering. That we'd live out our days in misery, hoping that somehow love would make it worth it.
 
Back
Top