It's a Texlahoma Story

GirlFromTexlahoma said:
This morning I told him I was going up to the lake Friday, but free tonight if he wanted to go out. He said he'd like that... But texted later that hotels are crazy expensive today. (DFW is mostly a business travel place, hotels are $250 a night during the work week, but drop to $100 on Friday and Saturday nights :cool:) I offered up the lake place, we could bring up food and beer and hang there. He said it's too far a drive and he can't be out that late. So I start checking every hotel I can think of looking for an affordable room.

And then I'm like, wtf am I doing? I offered one reasonable solution. Actually two, since I also told him I was fine with just happy hour and not getting a room at all. That's enough. I don't have to spend my lunch break fixing this.
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I listen regularly to the Polyamory Weekly podcast, and while it doesn't always resonate with me (and the audio leveling SUCKS!), there are some gems that I've taken with me.

One is, if you say "no" to something, offer an alternative. If the answer to that alternative is a "no" from the other partner, then THEY offer another alternative. Back and forth until there is agreement, or you run out of alternatives. Minx's resolution to running out of alternatives is to do the last suggested thing, but in this case, that probably wouldn't work. It may just come down to not doing it at all.

Did Dag suggest anything after he said the hotel wouldn't work out? It may be worth not even attempting to fix it and just ask him, "Ok, what do you suggest, then?" (and wait for a counter-suggestion)

...and not to rescue him if he can't or doesn't come up with something.

Yeah... I know. I'm a fixer too.
Still, it's easy to burn out after a while, and I'm wondering if that's what's going on here.

Good luck!
 
YouAreHere said:
Did Dag suggest anything after he said the hotel wouldn't work out? It may be worth not even attempting to fix it and just ask him, "Ok, what do you suggest, then?" (and wait for a counter-suggestion)
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No to the lake house, and then I guess yes to the happy hour??? He asked where I wanted to go. I offered a couple of choices and haven't heard anything back.

Still, it's easy to burn out after a while, and I'm wondering if that's what's going on here
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Yes. I think so. Maybe for Dag, too. I feel like we're both just phoning it in right now.
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
But I don't feel like that's ok. It's too hierarchical. It's not fair to the hypothetical dudes to expect them to befriend my husband and my weirdo friends. It's not right to enter into relationships when you have no intention of prioritizing the person or accepting that they might need a certain amount of time, affection, and attention.
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I don't see anything unfair or even overly hierarchical about your ideal situation. In reading your blog it's clear that you have a busy life that you enjoy with the exception of the stress you feel in regards to your relationship with Dag. What your ideal situation says to me is that you want somebody that can be a bit more flexible in meeting some of your other needs. Just as it's understandable that he'd like more alone time with you, it's completely understandable that your social time and time at home with Andy meets needs you have so if he wants more time with you, he should consider participating in these other activities.

Also, based on what you write about his relationship with his wife, it's pretty clear that he expects your relationship with him to meet all the needs that aren't getting met with in his marriage. To me this seems like putting a lots eggs in one basket given the circumstances of your life. When I've dated people that have other relationships and/or lots of other responsibilities it's been with the understanding that we'll have our time together when it works for both of our schedules and that we'll be flexible about what spending time together means. Hanging out with a partner, their friends, and even their OSO has never made me feel like less of a priority. In fact, they've usually been incredibly fun nights.

Just to challenge some of your guilt about "being a bad girlfriend" for not always wanting to bend to what he wants or to give up time doing something else you value, why isn't he a "bad boyfriend" for not being more flexible in how he spends time with you or for not asking if he's being unreasonable in how much he expects from you given the overall circumstances of both of your lives?
 
I've had FWBs with whom I was very close, including two since Hubby and I opened our marriage. No...wait...three. Forgot Bouncer. Anyway, none of them felt anything was hierarchical; all three of them were the ones who preferred keeping it at FWB, though that was fine with me because being friends is way easier for me than being in a relationship. I don't see anything at all wrong with wanting a FWB who is actually a friend and hangs out with you and your other friends. It's just a matter of stating that preference up front so there are no misunderstandings or hurt feelings later.

(Friendship is easier for me than relationship because of the level of emotional entanglement. A friend's opinion of me doesn't matter much to me, and if a friend says something hurtful or judgmental, I can cut them out of my life and not even miss them, usually. Whereas when I'm in a relationship, it's because I'm in love with the person, which means their opinion matters, so I feel a lot of pressure to be what they think I should be and do what they think I should do, and I get anxious if I feel like I'm not meeting their expectations. Fortunately for me, the past few years all of my relationships have been with guys whose only expectation was that I do what made me happy and comfortable...)

And please, GFT, I beg you... stop saying you don't do poly right just because you don't do it the way other people say you "should"! Or, as one of my counselors always said, "Stop shoulding on yourself." You're doing poly the way that is right for YOU, and no one else has the right to tell you otherwise. If it makes you happy and comfortable, and you're with guys who feel the same way, it's all good. But if you're putting yourself down and treating yourself like crap because you don't do *other people's* version of poly... that's a pretty big problem. Far bigger than you wanting FWB instead of "boyfriend."
 
icesong said:
I don't think you're being a brat. I do have one question for you though - does he *know* that you want *your* birthday to be a big deal? And yeah, I know you did a bunch for his - but I'm not sure that that says in so many words that you want something similarly big.
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I second this.

I give less than two-shits about any birthday, holiday, anniversary, etc. Even when Lotus gave her husband (and all of us) HUGE hints that she wanted something special, it was hard for us to come up with a plan more than the gift that she had already asked for. So ask for what you want! (Honestly, even remembering to acknowledge someone's birthday is a struggle for some of us...once, in the last 20 years, I remembered to call one of my sisters on her B-day, her husband got her on the phone and her first words were "What's wrong?" = obviously we don't speak on the phone that often)

JaneQ

PS. Sorry, didn't realize how much had been written after the post I responded to...ignore irrelevancy.
PPS. Amusing anecdote. Since I never actually remember my OWN birthday until someone points it out, whenever I realize that my birthday is coming up I just adjust my "age" to reflect what it is "going to be". So, one of my friends heard me answer my "corrected" age to a 'how old are you?' and reamed me out. "You are NOT 42. You won't be 42 for another 9 days! Why are you AGING yourself that way?!" In my brain, I am saying - "I'm over 4 decades old and you think NINE DAYS makes a DIFFERENCE?!?"
 
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GirlFromTexlahoma said:
Yeah, very good point. Anna-Louise was a friend for years before she was a more-than-friend, and Steph has been platonic BFF, girlfriend, and everything in between in their 25 years together. And I met Dag online... So yes, from the start it was dating, boyfriend-girlfriend, etc.



Mine with Andy, too :) We were friends for a couple of years before we got together.

Come to think of it, when I was single, I never dated anyone I wasn't already friends with. Even my first poly guy was a friend of ours (and that was awesome until his wife called it off).

That's such a sad thought, though, that "dating" doesn't work. Well, it is for me, because all my male friends and friends-of-friends are either mono and taken, or not my type, or gay :cool:
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This kind of re-enforces the "not looking" camp actually. It was 19 years between the last guy that wasn't MrS and Dude. But I really never understood dating....

Make friends, they will have friends, stuff will / or won't happen? Dude said, at one point, that he if he wasn't "dating" Lotus that they probably wouldn't be friends - this was a foreign concept to me. How could you date someone you wouldn't be friends with?!?

PS. I don't think you are doing "poly" wrong in any way - I DO think that you are putting way too much pressure on yourself to be the "perfect" everything to everyone to enforce some "perfect" vision of yourself that you have in your head - that no-one else sees. Let it go. You are holding yourself to a metric that nobody else can even see. You are exactly ONE person, there are 24 hours in a day. YOU deserve to be happy.
 
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GirlFromTexlahoma said:
YThat's such a sad thought, though, that "dating" doesn't work. Well, it is for me, because all my male friends and friends-of-friends are either mono and taken, or not my type, or gay :cool:
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It IS super sad! And, obviously, it does work for some people.

I guess depending on your definition of "worked," it kinda worked for me in the past too. I have had two medium-length relationships (3ish years) come out of dating—only one of which (Moss) is still a friendship. But both of those were far more fraught, especially at the beginning, than my relationship with Rider.

I dunno...

I do hate dating, though. I much prefer hanging out with people and getting to know them in low-pressure situations where there are also other people around to bail to if stuff gets weird. And time is so scarce that it seems wasteful to gamble one-on-one time with someone I don't know at all. I'm terrible.
 
I have a LOT to unpack tonight... We'll see how much I can get through before I pass out from exhaustion...

I talked to Dag. About everything. Well, almost everything, I chickened out on bringing up the birthday stuff. But it was a good :) We went out and sat on a bar patio and just soaked up the sun and talked. We've both been feeling the stress of trying to sustain the NRE phase of our relationship - the "drop anything and everything for five minutes together" phase. But we can't do that long term. And we can't keep beating ourselves up for not being able to bend time and space. So we're going to try to just enjoy the times we do get together, and not pressure ourselves to make every week date nights happen.

I offered up the "open poly" possibility, and once again Dag said he's not interested. That he barely has time to see me, he's not going to juggle anyone else. Well, not in anyone in-person - I think he was relieved to hear me say again that I don't care at all what he does online ;) (If I was 15 years younger, I would so become a cam girl. I want to sit around and do my school work naked while men tip me for waving to them.)

It was really a great night... I complain about Dag so much, everyone must wonder why I'm with him :rolleyes: but the answer to that is he's perfect and I'm head over heels. I love listening to him talk about his kids. I love the way he smells. I love his socks, and his nose, and his laugh, and the way he blushes when I tell him how gorgeous he is. I get nervous talking too much specifics here, but seriously, the non-profits he works with, and the way he lights up when he talks about them? The way he thinks about his work and what it means? He just makes my heart sing :eek:
 
Ok, so that was the good stuff, but there is also some not-so-great.

I was joking around with Dag at one point last night, saying how if we were a "regular" couple, we'd probably be moving in together or even engaged by now. And he was all, haha silly girl nope never not in a million years. He actually put his finger to his nose and said "Not it!" like a third-grader :cool:

And that hit every single little insecurity I have. Like some kind of laser beam.

I mean, I'm not an idiot, I know we'll never get married. I'm already happily married, and so is he, and I don't have any interest in screwing up either of our lives. But if we were both single? I'd absolutely want to live with him, marry him, commit to him. And I don't know if he feels that way about me :( Every time I've brought up anything like that, he has panicked. Mumbled excuses about how we wouldn't even be the same people if we were single.

I can handle being secondary (or non escalator, or FWB, whatever I am to him) if it's because that's the relationship model that best fits our lives. I can deal with somebody saying, "we can't get married because I'm already married." I could even be ok with someone who said, "we'll never get married because I don't want to be married to anyone".

But I cannot take feeling like I'm not *good enough* to marry. Which is how I feel when I talk about "us" and "long term relationship" and Dag gets the deer in the headlights look. There are sooo many phrases that run through my mind: marriage material, wife up, girls you fuck versus girls you marry.

All that insecurity? That's where it comes from. This nagging sense that Dag doesn't think I'm good enough to be his wife or his primary. For me, the entanglement and entwinement and merging of lives is the ultimate. Feeling like you could do that with someone is the highest form of love I know. And I do feel that for Dag. Even though I know we will never have that, I *would* if I could. Would he? Or does he look at me and think, "nah, she's ok to date, but I wouldn't marry her"???

So yeah, I'm basically driving myself insane trying to be perfect and pretty and skinny and perky and helpful and easy going and, and, and... In the hopes that my boyfriend will someday say that he thinks I'm worth marrying, even though I don't want to marry him. Hmmm. I sound insane. Maybe I am insane.

Go easy on me, y'all :eek: I've just discovered that my Southern how-to-land-a-man brainwashing goes even deeper than I knew.
 
I was emailing with a friend and thinking about Catch 22s and I realized...

I do not feel secure enough in my relationship with Dag to ask for the things I need to feel secure.

This is a bad thing. I mean, good that I realized it, but a bad way to live.

There are lots of ways he does succeed in making me feel loved and secure. He texts me first thing every morning. He says I love you. He makes time for me whenever he can.

But there are other things that I need to really feel confident about this relationship.

It would make me feel secure if Dag made a bigger deal about birthdays and special occasions. It would make me feel secure if he complimented me on things besides my looks. It would make me feel secure if he only suggested plans he actually intended to follow through on.

If I had an issue like this with Andy, I would have no problem saying, hey, I need this stuff. But with Dag... I'm scared to ask. Which leaves me not getting my needs met, and feeling more insecure every day.
 
Well I don't think you're as far apart as you think. And catch-22s, while annoying and confounding, aren't as insurmountable as you fear. It seems you've already made progress in that

1. You are aware of your insecurity
2. You know what you need to do to move your relationship with Dag forward
3. You also know what you're looking for in your relationship with Dag that you're not getting now.

I wouldn't say that you're asking for a lot from Dag. He does love you, and I hope that does give you some confidence. As I sometimes say with other situations "you are not trying to turn the boat around, you are only trying to steer it in a slightly different direction." And you're not trying to tell him how to love you, more that you are letting him know the language you want to hear it in.

I remember recently emailing a friend who is rooting for me and The Signal to end up happy ;) I think that is our wish for you and Dag too--honestly whatever your relationship looks like, shouldn't that be the end result?
 
I don't normally spend a lot of time daydreaming. My headspace is usually devoted to scheduling, planning, brainstorming, making lists, boring and practical. But once in a while, I find my mind wandering during drives and runs. It's been happening more and more lately, my thoughts drifting to that delicious fantasy...

... where I get malaria.

Or possibly some other untreatable, but not typically fatal, long illness. Something that causes exhaustion and fever and leaves me bedridden for a month or two. Something that renders me incapable of doing anything besides sleeping and sipping soup.

I'm pretty sure mono would not be sufficient to send me to bed, I'd probably use the time off from work to repaint the house or something. (I came home from having all four wisdom teeth pulled and was like, well, I'm home all afternoon, might as well vacuum!) Most of the wasting illnesses of bygone times respond to antibiotics and wouldn't do the trick. There's cancer, but that seems like a hectic mess of chemo and radiation and surgeries...

So, malaria is my go-to.

I read The Poisonwood Bible my freshman year of college, and found myself captivated by Leah's bout with malaria. So romantic. So exotic.

I imagine myself lying on a bed on the porch (why? who knows?), all dressed in white, sleeping on white cotton sheets and blankets (my malaria does not involve any icky vomiting symptoms). People come and bring soup, or tea, and murmur worried but reassuring things. Mostly I can't follow them, I'm in a haze of fever dreams, half awake, half asleep. There's no awareness of time. But every once in a while, a voice breaks through, telling me to rest and get better and not worry. And I drift off again,
knowing there is nothing for me to do but sleep in the breeze and the sunshine.

Yup. I'm burnt out. I need a vacation. Badly. And I see no way to get one without developing a tropical mosquito-borne infection. Of course, it's just a fantasy. If I actually had malaria, I'd keep starting awake and being like, "Oh shit, hey doc, remind my husband to pay the flood insurance policy!" :rolleyes:

But a girl can daydream :p
 
Fight with Andy this morning :(

He left today for Steph's daughter's graduation. Apparently Steph got weird about him sleeping in her room with her whole extended family around - totally understandable - and he expected me to be ok with him putting a $400 :eek: hotel room on a credit card. Um, wtf, no. That's why you have spending money.

He's not used to actually spending any money on dating, beyond dinner or drinks sometimes. Both Steph and Anna-Louise live alone (well, Anna Louise has her younger son 50% of the time, but still.) Welcome to my world, Andy. Hotels ain't cheap.

Andy got pissed because "this isn't a dating thing!" Well... It's not a date, exactly, but it is something you're doing with/for someone you're dating. It's kind of weasly to have Steph be a girlfriend when you want sex with her, then claim she's a "family friend" when you want to pay for this trip out of the main household budget. I mean, especially since I wasn't invited. I thought I was being fair by paying for the graduation gift with household money.

I dunno, maybe I'm being petty. But there is not a ton of slack in the budget right now, and this doesn't seem like a credit-card-emergency situation. He has plenty of spending money to cover it. Hotel room just means less eating out at lunch for him or whatever.

Also, why did we agree to separate spending accounts if we are still going to raid the big account or pull out the credit card whenever it suits us? Seriously, can I friend zone Dag for a night and put a $400 hotel room on the Amex? :rolleyes:
 
I don't think it's petty. This is one of a few reasons why I'm not sure I'll commingle funds with another partner. After years of marriage and compromising on how money is spent, I prefer to have the choice and control to spend money how I wish to spend it! And, honestly, I prefer not to know how my partner (s) spend their money.
 
PinkPig said:
I don't think it's petty. This is one of a few reasons why I'm not sure I'll commingle funds with another partner. After years of marriage and compromising on how money is spent, I prefer to have the choice and control to spend money how I wish to spend it! And, honestly, I prefer not to know how my partner (s) spend their money.
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Yup! 99% of the time, having a main account for the household and separate spending accounts accomplishes this for us. Our spending money is generous enough that it can cover clothes shopping, laptops, phones, travel, etc. The only time we really have to sit down and hash it out over whether or not to spend money is like, car repairs or furniture or stuff like that.

Which is why it seemed frigging bizarre to me that Andy thought a 3-day booze fest with his friend girl and her buddies was a household expense.

We're fine now - Andy and I always sort it out pretty quickly. He says he saw this trip as a "family obligation", going to support Daughter graduating. And that he took my enthusiastic "Go! Have fun!" as a yes to paying for it with joint money.

:cool:

Personally, I think he was annoyed that Steph expected him to get his own room, and tried to make himself feel better about that by a) reframing it as something other than a couple-y event and b) consoling himself with the thought that, if it's not a couple-y thing, I don't have to spend my money.

But the thing is, if it was a family obligation, he could/should have run by me what it would cost. We have a couple of weddings coming up, and we sat down and went over what to spend on gifts, outfits, travel. I mean, it usually only takes five minutes to get on the same page. I'm guessing he knew I'd balk at the $400 a night room and suggest just driving home after dinner, or at least driving far enough to stay someplace reasonable. So he waited until the last minute to tell me.

Eh, whatever. We managed to establish a pretty clear rule from this - if you want to use joint money, don't *commit* to anything until we've agreed on the reason and amount. As in, no more "surprise, I reserved a $400 room!" If you want to commit to spending money without any discussion? Use your damn spending money.

Anyway, he had a blast at the ceremony, and the party, and now has moved onto phase two of the booze fest - spending the day and night at Steph's ex husbands lake house with the whole crew of family and friends. I'm up at our lake place, having a much quieter Saturday with my dogs and my lawnmower :)
 
Well for fucks sake.

Finally got to talk to Andy instead of just texting. Turns out Steph got all drunk last night and ended up sleeping in his room anyway :rolleyes:

He's exhausted because she stayed up half the night kicking the mattress, yelling OW OW OW, then laughing hysterically. Things you didn't really need to know about your metamour ;)
 
Well, it's been about a week and a half since Dag and I had the "let's take the pressure off" conversation.

It's been... Eye opening. I honestly had not realized how much of my time and energy was Dag, Dag, Dag. Even though I only saw him for few hours once or twice a week, my whole schedule revolved around his. I'd cram as much "non-Dag" stuff as possible into the days I knew he was unavailable, so I could be free anytime he might want to see me. I'd clean the house like a maniac almost every day, just in case he was free and came over. Of course, that meant lots of days, when he didn't end up having time, I spent hours brooding and being bored.

Just giving myself permission to be unavailable on short notice has made a huge difference. I can plan my week out on Monday again!!! I had no idea how much free time I actually have. Also, I have hobbies! Things I like to do in that free time! It's pretty crazy :D I've noticed I'm less cranky, less tired, less strung out. It's nice.

The downside is, without me doing all that crazy juggling, I don't think I'll see Dag very much. He seriously sucks at making plans ahead of time. I think he would like to, but between work and wife and kids, it's hard for him to know he'll be available any given night. So it seems like we will have our occasional "special" things, events that get on the calendar weeks in advance, and then maybe random days/nights that the stars align and we're both free. And... that's fine. I guess.

Dag came over Friday while Andy was away, we watched a movie and drank beer and ate pizza. It was fun. Normal. Felt like "us", still. Then we started fooling around, and having sex, and ... Meh. First time that's ever happened with him, that I was just tuned out during sex. He was doing all the right things, and doing them quite well, my heart just wasn't in it. I ended up just fantasizing about someone else the whole time, so I could at least enjoy myself.

I mean, I know that thinking about other people during sex is totally normal and ok. Hell, if your partner is into it, it can be downright hot - Andy and I have pretended to fuck just about everyone we know while having sex with each other ;) But this wasn't a "let's spice it up, wanna hear who I'm thinking about" kind of thing. It was me just not being that into Dag at that moment, and needing to pretend he was someone else just to get aroused.

I don't know if it was just an off day for me? Or if I'm just not feeling connected to him with the whole no-pressure style arrangement? But I know now that I can't go back to driving myself insane to make 2 dates per week happen. So I have no fucking clue what happens next.
 
Facebook made me cry tonight. In a good way :eek:

Steph put up an adorable picture of her and Andy cuddling at her daughter's graduation party, and wrote, "Thank you for everything this weekend... And for just being you!" And omg the comments. Even my close friends, who know Andy through me and have maybe met Steph once or twice, were gushing. I was completely tearing up thinking how happy I am for Andy, and how lucky we all are.

I almost never get jealous of Steph - but damn I'm ENVIOUS of what Andy has with her. I know it's not always rainbows and sunshine, they've had rough times. But they're so GOOD together. There is just so much love there, always. I sometimes wonder why I'm not jealous... I think it's because Andy wouldn't even be Andy without Stephanie. My marriage wouldn't be as good as it is if he didn't have her love and support. I'm just so stinking happy for them, and oh shit, I'm gonna cry again.
 
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