'Marriage'?

S

SoftKitty

New member
Hiya,
Am new here so, hello!
I have a question about non-legal marriage. My partner is married already but I would really love to be her 'wife'. I just want to commit ourselves to each other in front of family and friends. Share that special day together.
Obviously bigamy is illegal but there's nothing stopping us from having a wedding without the paperwork, right?

We could have some sort of commitment ceremony, I could change my surname to hers legally and refer to her as my wife...so long as it's not a legal marriage ceremony or civil partnership with a registrar? We can't get in any trouble for that?

Has anyone ever done something like this?

Thanks.
 
It depends upon where you live. In many places anything that looks like a concurrent wedding or marriage will be enough to qualify you for a bigamy charge.
 
"Wedding ceremonies can either be conducted by "authorised celebrants" (usually, but not always, a minister of religion) or by an "authorised Registrar". However, to be legally binding, it must take place with an authorised person or superintendent registrar present (e.g. vicar or priest) and have at least two competent people, who will be required to sign the marriage register as witnesses"

So a commitment ceremony without a registrar or any documents is not 'legally binding' so therefore cannot be an act or bigotry because legal it is not a marriage, surely?
 
As I understand it, you are free to do your own ceremony or hand-fasting in the UK, and as long as you don't make it official, then it's fine. However, getting any kind of legal protection for your other partner in the event of your death can be pretty complicated. Even if you make your intentions clear in your will, your legal spouse (or possibly even your birth family should your spouse also die) can contest it, and will most likely win. You might be able to be listed as their dependent on their pension or life-insurance scheme, but you will not be able to list them on yours. Sharing property is more straightforward. Three (or more) people can enter into a mortgage agreement with pretty much any high street bank. If you were planning to have children then that can be tricky. Your legal spouse will ordinarily have parental rights even if they are not the biological parent. The only way I know to circumvent that is for them to agree to give up those rights in a formal adoption procedure. Not ideal, but there you have it.
 
It could be a US v. UK difference.

In the US, many states have laws or constitutional amendments that say some version of "anything having the appearance of a marriage" (which changing names and calling another person your spouse does definitely have) counts for purposes of legality or illegality.
 
SoftKitty said:
So a commitment ceremony without a registrar or any documents is not 'legally binding' so therefore cannot be an act or bigotry because legal it is not a marriage, surely?
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I think you meant to say bigamy, yes?

You're asking an international forum about legalities that are largely local to you. In the US, each of our 50 states has a different take on this issue. Things in this arena are also changing as legalized gay marriage spreads and influences recognitions of other non-mono-hetero relationships. You're not likely to get a definitive answer, but in most Western societies, just having a private ceremony that involves no government documentation is neither legal nor illegal. Your union will not be legally recognized either way, for better or worse. The practice of domestic polyamory itself is not illegal anywhere that I know of. It certainly can have social repercussions but it is not illegal because it is not recognized one way or another by the law.

I'm not an attorney, but my understanding is that prosecuting for bigamy would involve proving that a person set out to defraud another. Bigamy laws exist for the protection of potentially duped spouses, who assume a certain amount of legal and financial benefits to marriage. Also, in the US, there are significant tax advantages to being married, so bigamy is a concern there. Also claiming joint home ownership can have significant financial repercussions for years to come. Changing your name to appear married very much is a legal issue, so be careful there. Again, if you claim no legal rights with your commitment or hand fasting, you should be fine, but never ever base legal and financial decisions on message board information, certainly not on one that draws responses from all over the world.
 
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Yeah I've done some research and talked to a registrar and I should be absolutely fine here in the UK to do those things.
 
FallenAngelina said:
You're asking an international forum about legalities that are largely local to your country. In the US, each of our 50 states has a different take on this issue. Things in this arena are also changing as legalized gay marriage spreads and influences legal recognitions of other non-mono-hetero relationships. You're not likely to get a definitive answer, but in most Western societies, just having a private ceremony that involves no government documentation is neither legal nor illegal. You union will not be legally recognized either way, for better or worse. The practice of domestic polyamory itself is not illegal anywhere that I know of. It certainly can have social repercussions but it is not illegal because it is not recognized one way or another by the law.
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Apologies. Like I said I'm new here and didn't even consider the legislation would vary from country to country.
 
FallenAngelina said:
Be sure to ask specifically about the name change.
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Actually, changing your name in the UK is no big deal. I know in the US that it's a nightmare, but here, as long as you are over 18, you can change your name to DonaldTrumpIsAGiantAssHoover VoteBernie no problem. Or, you know, Jane MyNonLegalHusbandsSurname. :D
 
Hi SoftKitty,

It sounds like you're basically squared away; if any further doubts or questions arise, I recommend getting a consultation with a lawyer, although you can still turn to this forum as well. We have quite a few members from the UK but they're not all active.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
tenK said:
Actually, changing your name in the UK is no big deal. I know in the US that it's a nightmare, but here, as long as you are over 18, you can change your name to DonaldTrumpIsAGiantAssHoover VoteBernie no problem. Or, you know, Jane MyNonLegalHusbandsSurname. :D
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I'm referring to a name change in regards to a potential bigamy prosecution. OP wants to change her name to match her beloved's. It might be easy to change her name, but if the state's attorney (or UK equivalent) can use that to prove that she indeed intended to defraud, then there's trouble. Of course, she can change her name, but is it advisable, given the bigamy laws where she lives?
 
FallenAngelina said:
I think you meant to say bigamy, yes?

The practice of domestic polyamory itself is not illegal anywhere that I know of.
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This is true, but three states do have laws against cohabitation. Mississippi, North Carolina, and Michigan. Florida did as well, until last month.
 
vinsanity0 said:
This is true, but three states do have laws against cohabitation. Mississippi, North Carolina, and Michigan. Florida did as well, until last month.
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Do you mean a law against living with a lover without being married? Are these like the spitting laws? Still on the books, unenforced, but behooves no one politically to take them off?
 
FallenAngelina said:
I'm referring to a name change in regards to a potential bigamy prosecution. OP wants to change her name to match her beloved's. It might be easy to change her name, but if the state's attorney (or UK equivalent) can use that to prove that she indeed intended to defraud, then there's trouble. Of course, she can change her name, but is it advisable, given the bigamy laws where she lives?
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Defraud who? Genuine question. We don't file joint taxes here, we don't have private healthcare systems to scam, and even if we did, you'd have to, you know, intentionally defraud someone in order to benefit by signing up to something when you're not supposed to. I don't understand why changing your name could in any way defraud someone.
 
FallenAngelina said:
Do you mean a law against living with a lover without being married? Are these like the spitting laws? Still on the books, unenforced, but behooves no one politically to take them off?
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I would say selectively enforced. I know it was used to kick people out of apartments in Florida. A law like that could be used against a poly household. Even if the government never enforces it, it can be used to justify evictions or firings. There was an instance where a company lost it's liquor license because several employees had committed the "crime" of cohabitation. I think in this day and age it does politically behoove people to get them off the books.
 
tenK said:
Defraud who? Genuine question. We don't file joint taxes here, we don't have private healthcare systems to scam, and even if we did, you'd have to, you know, intentionally defraud someone in order to benefit by signing up to something when you're not supposed to. I don't understand why changing your name could in any way defraud someone.
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It's not the changing of a name, per se, that would be a fraudulent act - it is the changing of a name in order to hide one's true identity or whether one is already married, with the intention of marrying someone else who is unaware of the full facts. The fraudulent act would be a married person pretending they are unmarried and then marrying someone else. This might be done to gain access to bank accounts, inheritances, business profits, property the new spouse has, or even citizenship. Someone might judge a poly situation wrongly and think there is some kind of fraud going on if there is a name change when there is no legal spouse or if one's legal spouse has a different name. However, I do think that is a long shot.
 
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