Women pursuing my flirty partner

[RiverGoddess]

I know I have posted about this a little bit before, and here I am again, needing to work out what it is that is bothering me about my partner's excessively flirty demeanor. I am going to try to hash it out here, so thank you in advance for listening. Your feedback is welcome.

As I have mentioned in past posts, my partner is an incredibly big flirt. He flirts with anyone and everyone, and makes people feel really good about themselves. He is a happy, generous man and most people find him really charming. He is also very handsome, which helps.

I am finding it kind of frustrating lately, because it feels like women are getting the wrong impression left and right. He has recently had several women pursue him strongly, feeling like there is "connection" where he feels there is not. (He doesn't pursue them in return, or accept their advances, and I do trust him to say if there was actually a spark for him).

I have not asked him to change, of course. I want him to express himself freely. We have, however, talked about discernment, personal responsibility, etc... but he does not agree with my opinions and has no interest in adjusting the scope of his flirtatious nature. His stance is that he is sending good vibes out into the world, and that in most cases, he just makes people feel good about themselves and then off they go.

But in other cases, that is not so. Some women cling to their interaction with him as meaningful and something to pursue. They come back hoping for more.

Here is one example: A few weeks ago he flirted with a woman in passing while at work. He told me about it, I remember. Yesterday she started messaging his co-workers on FB and calling his office, saying she felt they had a "connection" and asking for his name and contact info. She was describing him in detail, hoping to get in touch. (They of course did NOT give his name/info out, thank goodness)

I feel like these kinds of things happen more often to him than most people, and that they are somewhat preventable -ish. But he has been clear that he isn't really looking to prevent them. He feels he wants to be his authentic self, whom is naturally flirty and outgoing. (I imagine all this is also very good for his ego, but that is my own judgement creeping in.)

I realize that besides having a touch of jealousy/insecurity regarding it all, which I have written about in past posts, I feel a part of my anger is based on the cultural double standard. For example, as a woman, I have been culturally trained not to give off that kind of vibe indiscriminately - let alone to every man I interact with in a day. There is no way I could be as flirtatious as he is without something scary happening, like an aggressive pursuer or something.

I feel I have been conditioned via experience to only flirt with people whom I would actually be interested in receiving advances from. I find flirting fun, but having to decline sexual advances (especially after flirting) is such an uncomfortable position to be in (for me), that I avoid giving any sexy signals unless the person is actually of sexual interest to me.

For him it's not so intense because they are usually only passing through, a 10 minute interaction or less. It is not long enough to end up in an uncomfortable position, really. But every once in a while (and what seems like more frequently, lately) someone comes back... looking for more.

Also, on a bit of a tangent:

The woman he is seeing casually, as a FWB, recently announced that she is, indeed, in love with him. (Surprise! I saw that one coming from a mile away!)

He did not return her sentiment... but they are continuing to sleep together.

I am finding that I am experiencing anger regarding his comfort with imbalance in relationships, and lack of need for reciprocity. This is demonstrated in both the flirting and the FWB situation. He seems to think his energy and way of being is only a positive force in people's lives, without considering the negative impacts he may have on their emotions or self-esteem.

He never leads these women to believe there is hope for more than there is, and he is totally honest and transparent with me and with her/them. I trust him completely to be honest with me - my jealousy does not stem from distrust. I guess I just find it exhausting to hear about every woman who thinks she loves him, lusts him, covets him... because, it seems to happen a lot.

Also, I guess there is a twang of fear that comes with each one, since his current FWB started due to her being persistently assertive towards him, and making repeat sexual advances, until he finally gave in.

Sigh. Thanks. There may not be anything to do in this situation, but I needed to vent. I am open to advice and support in getting to a better mindset on all this, re-framing, or changing focus.

 

[GalaGirl]

I hope you feel better for the vent.

I am finding that I am experiencing anger regarding his comfort with imbalance in relationships, and lack of need for reciprocity. This is demonstrated in both the flirting and the FWB situation. He seems to think his energy and way of being is only a positive force in people's lives, without considering the negative impacts he may have on their emotions or self-esteem.

I could be wrong. But that seems kind of "writing about a yucky thing at arms length" to me. When you write all that do you mean...

" I am angry. He seems to think his energy and way of being is only a positive force in people's lives. Those people over THERE. So I ought to be all "yay" about his behavior.

He's not thinking about how his behavior impacts my life. Me over HERE. He doesn't consider how me watching this behavior and dealing with all this is a negative impact on my emotions or my self-esteem. So I am NOT all "yay" about it."

Is that what you mean?

I guess I just find it exhausting to hear about every woman who thinks she loves him, lusts him, covets him... because, it seems to happen a lot.

Could you please be willing to clarify? Are the WOMEN telling you this? Or is HE telling you this stuff? Can you ask them/him to stop telling you this since you want to be free of having to listen to it?

That sounds like you trust him not to break agreements but you don't trust him not to blahblahblah about his flirty stuff and emotionally drain you.

Why are you his audience for that stuff? I mean, he could go ahead and flirt. But if there's nothing to be excited about and it isn't news... why be telling you every little thing? Maybe you want to talk to him about what is "newsworthy" to you and what's ok to just skip so you catch a break and aren't so exhausted?

Galagirl

 

[RiverGoddess]

I could be wrong. But that seems kind of "writing about a yucky thing at arms length" to me. When you write all that do you mean...
"I am angry. He seems to think his energy and way of being is only a positive force in people's lives. Those people over THERE. So I ought to be all "yay" about his behavior.
He's not thinking about how his behavior impacts my life. Me over HERE. He doesn't consider how me watching this behavior and dealing with all this is a negative impact on my emotions or my self-esteem. So I am NOT all "yay" about it."
Is that what you mean?

Hmm, I see how that could be read two ways. Yes, I meant "those people over there"... as in, he seems to think he is a positive force in the lives of strangers, by flirting and chatting and giving them little boosts of unexpected positive energy in their day.

I see how that could have sounded like I was speaking about how he is impacting my life. Hmm, hadn't thought of that. I don't think he has, either.

Are the WOMEN telling you this? Or is HE telling you this stuff? Can you ask them/him to stop telling you this since you want to be free of having to listen to it?
That sounds like you trust him not to break agreements but you don't trust him not to blahblahblah about his flirty stuff and emotionally drain you.
Why are you his audience for that stuff? I mean, he could go ahead and flirt. But if there's nothing to be excited about and it isn't news... why be telling you every little thing? Maybe you want to talk to him about what is "newsworthy" to you and wheat's ok to just skip so you catch a break and aren't so exhausted?l

He is telling me. It comes out when he is sharing stories of his dates or flirtations. I believe him that the women actually say these things (as opposed to just his perception of what they feel). He recounts certain important conversations, in the name of transparency.

You are right - I do trust him not to break agreements. I hadn't considered his OVER-sharing to be a trust issue. I could see how UNDERsharing would be, though.

I have talked to him before about the concept of only sharing newsworthy items, such as if he meets a woman he actually wants to pursue, or something like that. Things that do (or could possibly) effect me. But it is so important to him to be fully transparent and honest, that he said he doesn't feel comfortable only sharing select parts of his life. It's not like he recounts every conversation to me or anything, or lists off every woman he flirts with throughout a day. He shares whenever someone asks for his info, gives him her info, makes a pass at him, etc etc.. which, because of his job and flirtatious nature (interacts with 100's of ppl per day), is quite often. This, to him, IS the newsworthy stuff.

I get what he is saying about transparency. There is one part of me that does want to ask him to only share if it actually gets physical (or he knows it is GOING to get physical). On the other hand, I also feel like it is up to me to learn to hear these things without getting knotted up about it.

 

[Ravenscroft]

Reverse genders & I've seen this a dozen+ times over the years with my female partners: given me as a stable anchor, they become bright & lively & playful. Guys see this & decide that flirty --> sexually available --> mono relationship target. My ladyfriends have been baffled by this; having left Monogamism behind, they don't like that it seems to pursue them. What was intended to be a brief friendly chat with a near stranger can suddenly escalate as far as proposals of marriage & even suicide threats. I've felt bad pointing out that we still live in a sick society that doesn't really know how to deal with a poly worldview.

No matter how big his heart, the FACT is that his behaviour is bringing this drama into your life, again & again & again.

If you are cool with that, then great -- go forth & be happy.

If you're not, then maybe you need to ask him to dial the charisma back a bit.

If you can't or he won't, then it seems you're going to become increasingly anxious. Repeat cycle: if you're cool with that...

 

[GalaGirl]

You have to hear about 100 possible people interactions each day? Oy. Why's his desire to share so much trump your need for rest?

But it is so important to him to be fully transparent and honest, that he said he doesn't feel comfortable only sharing select parts of his life.

I could be wrong.. but that sounds like what is important to him is to blahblah with you as a captive audience.

But he's framing it in a way that makes his behavior sound better/more noble -- this "sending good vibes out into the world and making people feel good" thing. His compassion for the world seems incomplete if it doesn't include you too. His behavior toward you makes you feel stressed out, not good.

It is possible to be fully transparent and honest without overinundating one's partner.

Could you guys put a number on it for the sake of a) giving him enough opportunity to share and demonstrate transparency and b) giving you enough opportunity to NOT be exhausted daily?

Like top 5 interactions of the day? Or top 10? And if you want to know more you can ask about it? And he will be up front about it?

Then if he wants to share more than top 5 or top 10, he can talk to another friend or online? Or write it in a free access journal (or dictate to the phone or computer for a blog)? So he can share at his pace but you can receive/read at your pace when you are not so tired?

The choices I see at this point are

1) No more requests. You just say no. After first 5, you say "Ok. Thanks for sharing!" And you go do something else. Just don't be there for the next 95.

2) You ask him again to change his communication behavior and dial the volume/frequency down some. Cliff notes, not the unabridged novel.

• General communication at the end of day: Only give you top 5 or top 10 interactions of the day. Not a potential 100.
• Specific communication: Always tell if a thing actually gets physical (or he knows it is GOING to get physical).

A) He says no to your reasonable request, and you update your opinion that he's a "generous guy." Because now you would have asked him TWICE to modify a behavior that bothers you and causes you stress (oversharing and wearing you out) and he doesn't take responsibility for it. (Additional annoying behavior.) He denies, ignores, minimizes or excuses it. His generosity does NOT extend to you and your well being.

• You stay and accept that this behavior will NOT change and you carry on being stressed out indefinitely til you pop.
• Or you leave and don't deal with the stress/behavior any more.

B) He says yes to your request, and to trying new ways of expression.

• He still gets to share/be transparent, and you get some breaks from hearing about it all in that amount/frequency so you are less stressed/exhausted.
• The ones you DO hear about you learn to take in stride more easily because you aren't run down exhausted so often and they aren't being dumped on your head in a big overwhelming DAILY whoosh.

You basically call it:

I am finding that I am experiencing anger regarding his comfort with imbalance in relationships, and lack of need for reciprocity

You are mad that in your relationship he's ok with the communication imbalance.

• He gets heard (about his need to share about flirty stuff).
• You do not get heard. (About your need for rest and to not be flooded with data.)

You are mad that in your relationship with him he doesn't care to give reciprocity.

• He's ok with you doing stuff so he doesn't have to be uncomfortable in his life.
• But you don't get reciprocity here. Where he does things so you are not uncomfortable in your life.

In that situation, I would be mad too.

I think you two could (come to compromise on this issue for sake of BOTH people's well being) rather than (he blahblahs on and on for his well being to the detriment of your well being). That doesn't seem healthy or sustainable long term.

Galagirl

 

[Noyse]

I can relate to this one on alot of levels. I majored in the social sciences, and I can't tell you how many times I've walked away from situations I coded as small talk with the other person thinking we had 'a connection'. For me it's the follow up interactions that set the dynamic with the random person. I've also had my fair share of people with bad boundaries...

One can be honest without sharing too much. I ask that my partners don't introduce me to potential metamours until they're sure the person isn't a passing fancy. One of my partners isn't too big on details, so our conversations look something like this:

Me: What does your week look like?

Partner: I have a date Thursday.

M: With June?

P: No Lizzy, she's new, I met her through Tom. We're going to see This Movie.

On the flip side, say I got to party and flirt with someone and end up in in a cuddle pile:

P: Did you have fun at Sammie's Party?

M: Yup!

P: Was Marie there?

M: No, but I did talk to Josh. I had a blast, a cuddle pile developed!

This works because we know each other. We've already talked about the important stuff, like sharing about sexual health. He knows I'm a flirt who will join a cuddle pile at a drop of a hat, he has no reason to know who was touching me how because sex never became an element.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi RiverGoddess,

It sounds like your partner has two modes of behavior that you wish he'd change/dial down. One is that he flirts a lot, and let's be honest here, in your view he flirts too much. Two is that he insists on giving you a play-by-play of all his flirtations, in the name of transparency. You would like him to change/dial down these behaviors, and you have asked him to do so. But he isn't willing to comply. He likes himself the way he is and has no desire to alter it ... your feelings be damned. And it doesn't sound like he's willing to work out a compromise, either.

What you have to do is decide what you'll do in response to his rigid modes of behavior. You can't change him, so you'll have to decide if you can and want to change you. The most obvious example of that would be breaking up with him, but perhaps there are less extreme things you can do. Such as leaving the room when he starts to carry on and on about today's flirtations.

In the meantime, you can of course continue to ask him to modify his behavior; perhaps there's some way to reason with him that you haven't tried, or that hasn't worked in the past but might work in the future. For instance you could point out to him that as a woman, you aren't as free to be flirtatious as he is.

I hope you can come to an agreeable resolution to this problem.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[RiverGoddess]

No matter how big his heart, the FACT is that his behaviour is bringing this drama into your life, again & again & again.

If you are cool with that, then great -- go forth & be happy.

If you're not, then maybe you need to ask him to dial the charisma back a bit.

If you can't or he won't, then it seems you're going to become increasingly anxious. Repeat cycle: if you're cool with that...

I actually had not pin pointed the feeling as anxiety. THANK YOU. You are totally right, it makes me feel anxious!

It feels like a relief to identify the emotion. Maybe I can express this to him with these words and he might get it. I don't feel like I can ask him to dial down the charisma, but I do think it's time I ask him to modify how much he shares and how often.

 

[RiverGoddess]

Gala Girl, thank you for your thoughts.
It is not quite so intense as listing 100 interactions, or even 10. It's not quite like that. But I do think I will set boundaries regarding what point I want to hear. I don't think I need to hear about every phone number or e-mail address, unless he actually thinks he will reply/respond. Essentially, if something actually sparks him in a way that he wants to pursue, or if something physical were to actually go down. Because hearing about all the possibilities IS exhausting.

 

[RiverGoddess]

I can relate to this one on alot of levels. I majored in the social sciences, and I can't tell you how many times I've walked away from situations I coded as small talk with the other person thinking we had 'a connection'. For me it's the follow up interactions that set the dynamic with the random person. I've also had my fair share of people with bad boundaries...

This actually does describe me too, however, I think the frustration for me is that he goes out and flirts it up intentionally; so the people aren't "mistaking" his vibes, per say, but he's somewhat misrepresenting himself/his intentions. With me, I like to have meaningful conversations, make eye contact, listen with my heart, and so people might leave that thinking there is more. I'm not misrepresenting myself or giving off signals that I have no interest in following up/through on.

One can be honest without sharing too much. I ask that my partners don't introduce me to potential metamours until they're sure the person isn't a passing fancy. One of my partners isn't too big on details, so our conversations look something like this:

Me: What does your week look like?
Partner: I have a date Thursday.
M: With June?
P: No Lizzy, she's new, I met her through Tom. We're going to see This Movie.
On the flip side, say I got to party and flirt with someone and end up in in a cuddle pile:

P: Did you have fun at Sammie's Party?
M: Yup!
P: Was Marie there?
M: No, but I did talk to Josh. I had a blast, a cuddle pile developed!

This works because we know each other. We've already talked about the important stuff, like sharing about sexual health. He knows I'm a flirt who will join a cuddle pile at a drop of a hat, he has no reason to know who was touching me how because sex never became an element.

This is also how I operate. I don't know that he knows how to operate this way. I think he just feels like he has to spew every detail out for fear that leaving something out could come back as hiding something. This has never happened in our relationship, so I wonder if the fear/behaviour stems from a dynamic in his previous marriage (10 years, open). Hmm - an interesting thing to check in with him about! Thanks.

 

[RiverGoddess]

Hi RiverGoddess,

It sounds like your partner has two modes of behavior that you wish he'd change/dial down. One is that he flirts a lot, and let's be honest here, in your view he flirts too much. Two is that he insists on giving you a play-by-play of all his flirtations, in the name of transparency. You would like him to change/dial down these behaviors, and you have asked him to do so. But he isn't willing to comply. He likes himself the way he is and has no desire to alter it ... your feelings be damned. And it doesn't sound like he's willing to work out a compromise, either.

What you have to do is decide what you'll do in response to his rigid modes of behavior. You can't change him, so you'll have to decide if you can and want to change you. The most obvious example of that would be breaking up with him, but perhaps there are less extreme things you can do. Such as leaving the room when he starts to carry on and on about today's flirtations.

In the meantime, you can of course continue to ask him to modify his behavior; perhaps there's some way to reason with him that you haven't tried, or that hasn't worked in the past but might work in the future. For instance you could point out to him that as a woman, you aren't as free to be flirtatious as he is.

I hope you can come to an agreeable resolution to this problem.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

Thanks Kevin. It's true - I do think he flirts too much.
I think instead of leaving the room, I might just gently interrupt him and ask... "Boil it down to one sentence, and I'll ask more if I need to know"... or something like that. Thanks for helping me think of an alternative way to deal with this.

 

[kdt26417]

Glad I could help.