7 year marriage falling apart one year into poly

[Cholita]

My 7 year marriage has been going steadily downhill for the last 6 months and i'm really devastated at the thought of losing my hubby. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I really need some outside perspective on this.

We have been through so much together, faced some incredible challenges in the beginning of our relationship, such as moving countries, learning new languages and cultures, visa problems, moments of economic hardship, being away from our families, supporting each other through our uni degrees etc... but we felt like we could do anything together.
Its been an amazing journey and I really don't want it to end... But it just doesn't feel like a journey anymore. It feels like we are not growing together anymore. Like we have come to a dead end but we just can't let go.

I can't imagine life without him, but i can't see our future together anymore either.

I don't think we inspire each other anymore, we have no more dreams or aspirations together. However, when I think about it, anything we did in the past were usually plans that I came up with and he would be happy to play a supportive role in the process, but he rarely brought any ideas to the table or took much initiative. He always just said that he just wanted to be together. At first i found this really romantic, like no matter what happened to us we would be happy just to have each other.

However, over the course of the relationship a certain resentment about this lack of input on his part has been accumulating over the years, and now that our marriage has settled into extreme routineness, and we are having fun with other people, there is just not enough passion to keep me going with a partner who is not actively engaging in the relationship...

My definition of being actively engaged would mean, planning some trips or special things to keep it alive and creating some new memories. He shows his love by helping around the house and such. But never invites me out, makes any plans for us to do fun things together. He never did this in the past but he used to go along with all the plans i made for us and he used to make lots of spontaneous gestures of romance.

Since we became poly one year ago and started seeing other people, naturally we have had less time and energy for each other and now the negative things in the relationship are starting to stand out more and more.

I have a strong thirst for adventure, I like to challenge myself and I like life to have some mystery. He is a more settled, introspective, caring and gentle, easy going (to the point of being too passive sometimes). In the past we found equilibrium together and it was a beautiful union of complimentary personality traits, but now i am yearning to be with someone who is exited to live life with me and maybe he wants to be with someone who is more grounded. He finds pleasure in the simple things in life such as waking up together. For me its more about discovery.

I don't know if its fair to expect him to change now after we supposedly accepted each other the way we were, or if I am being overly idealistic and selfish by trying to get him to change now.

I cant live in the present moment with him anymore because im really stuck yearning for the past and all our beautiful memories and dreaming of an ideal future. He on the other hand is living only in the present moment avoiding speculating about the future. He occupies himself from moment to moment with his hobbies and passions (making music) but doesn't seem to have any concrete goals or aspirations he is working towards. Never talks about anything he wants to do together.

That makes me think that maybe he is not really happy with me anymore, but maybe he is too comfortable to leave and lacks the courage and initiative to go after what he really wants or to tell me how he really feels.

I asked him how much time he would like to spend with his girlfriend if our relationship was doing better and there was no issues and he replied that she would like him to be able to spend more time with her.

The way he phrased his response tells me that he isn't 100% comfortable expressing his true feelings or owning them.

We stopped having sex completely a couple of months ago now. I made a big deal about it and now im wishing i never mentioned it because it seems even harder to connect in that way after it turned into a serious topic.

Right now i have asked him to stay with a friend for 2 weeks so that we can have a break from each other and try to miss each other a bit. And for him to see the bigger picture. I have brought up all these issues with him repeatedly but nothing changes. i have asked him is there something I can do to make the relationship better for you??? what do you want?? ....apparently for him everything is fine and its normal for us to not feel any passion after this long.

So am I being a spoilt hedonist who needs to learn to appreciate my partner or am I right to want him to make more of an effort?....so lost here.

 

[Tinwen]

I am sorry, but I don't have time to catch up on your other threads now, so I might be missing the big picture. I also never had as long a relationship as you. But I have a few thoughts springing up if you're interested.

• Did you explained your need for growth and exploration to him this clearly? Maybe he's gotten the message of "be more initiative, for gods sake!", but hasn't really understood in what area and why it is important?
• It's not about changing him, it is about finding a new balance in a world that doesn't put so many natural challenges as you were used to. (I feel put this way it is both more true and much kinder to the other person.)
• For me personally, a regular activities (like a dancing class or the tantra course I've been visiting) with my partner work well. Little iniciative (only at the beginning to choose and enroll for the class), lot of learning.
• Can you meet more of your need for exploration for yourself? I mean, are you sure how much of this is your own need to grow, and how much is your need to grow with a partner?
• Can you participate more in things he already is fond of? He makes music, maybe that is his way to grow - can you learn to make music as well?
• I understand you would like him to be more initiative, but if you do initiate - is he still fond to go with it?
• Can you yourself release the resentment you are holding somehow?
• I don't think you are selfish, I think the need to grow is very human. You may certainly be expecting the wrong things from the wrong person of course.

 

[Bluebird]

Counseling. You clearly aren't communicating things clearly between the two of you - or maybe you are, but he isn't processing what you're saying. Is he suffering from depression?

What you are describing is typical in poly relationships - opening up shines a large spotlight on what isn't good in your marriage. You shouldn't be dating when the foundation isn't strong. It seems like to me, you need to circle the wagons and figure out what you want.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you are sad and struggling. You seem disheartened.

I agree with John Cleese who said "All relationships come with a clock attached. "

We'd like to think it is "til death to us part" or something, but spiritual and emotional death count to me. If it's just become a "meh" relationship in the present? Fun stuff of the past doesn't count. What's going on to sustain it TODAY? Nothing? Nobody is making effort? No other explanation for why this is? (ex: a health problem)

Then it's done. Call it what it is.

If you want more than what you have right now in your life? Take your own advice.

That makes me think that maybe he is not really happy with me anymore, but maybe he is too comfortable to leave and lacks the courage and initiative to go after what he really wants or to tell me how he really feels.

You could tell him how you really feel and you could go after what you really want in life even if it means parting ways here.

You are pretty clear you want a more actively participating partner and he's just not actively participating. He doesn't make the cut.

I wonder if now that the "exciting" drama stuff is over.... the NRE, the change in countries, learning new language, financial problems, etc... you can see how things are with him more realistically now that those distractions are gone?

I wonder if you have come to realize that he's not actually an active partner in the relationship and this is very important to you in a partner?

During NRE, his willingness to say yes to whatever you say might have felt "nurturing and going the extra mile" for you. During hardships, that may have felt like "supportive team player" to complement your leadership to get you guys OUT of the hardship.

But once out of NRE and when not in crisis, I wonder if on reflection it feels like..."wait a minute. I'm actually doing all the work in the relationship to keep it going and he's mostly coasting." Maybe that doesn't sit well with you.

Or maybe you realize that you actually have incompatible personalities -- where you want active adventure and excitement and he's a homebody who likes mellow.

So am I being a spoilt hedonist who needs to learn to appreciate my partner or am I right to want him to make more of an effort?....so lost here.

You aren't being spoiled hedonist to come to realize that you would like more fulfillment from this relationship than you are getting.

You appreciate what he DOES do, but it's not the ONLY things you want from a partner. He simply doesn't make the cut.

You write pretty clearly. You get excited about planning things for the future and he doesn't want to even talk about a future. You don't share meaningful conversation. You don't share sex. If there weren't problems here, he'd rather be hanging out more with his GF. So... what IS there here?

Sounds like dying/dead relationship to me. Not much back and forth relating going on.

If you think he is depressed or ill and that blocks his ability to participate well? Or you might be depressed or something? Everyone get a check up first to make sure they are able.

Then try to revive it together. If you are both willing, try counseling.

If he's basically checked out, not willing to revive it and not willing to end it? YOU end it. Because you cant live your life "put on hold" forever.

If he doesn't want to participate in his relationship with you any more? And/or you don't get what you need out of this relationship? You could accept this one's expired and move on. I know that stinks, and it hurts, but that's the better choice to me.

When all options stink, pick the least stinky. Ending it clearly and moving on toward healing is a better stink to me than sitting around waiting in an unsatisfactory situation with no end to the misery in sight.

I have brought up all these issues with him repeatedly but nothing changes. i have asked him is there something I can do to make the relationship better for you??? what do you want?? ....apparently for him everything is fine and its normal for us to not feel any passion after this long.

You seem to ask him what he wants in the hopes he will reciprocate and ask what YOU want and what HE could do to improve the relationship for you.

If you value active, don't be passive yourself. Be direct. Ask him if he's willing to do these behaviors _______(list of things you would like)____ to help make the relationships better for you. He either is willing or not willing.

And if not, and he likes things how they are, and you prefer more effort? Disband so he doesn't have to do more effort and you can be with someone who does put more effort in.

Galagirl

 

[WhatHappened]

Which of you introduced the idea of poly? Was it a mutual decision? Were you both enthusiastic about it? Why did you decide to become poly?

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Cholita,

Sorry to hear that your marriage is circling the drain. It is clear that this is a very sad time for you.

If divorce can be done amicably, maybe that wouldn't be so bad. Just make sure you have communicated your wants and needs clearly to him. Try some marriage counseling if you can. But once you've tried everything within reason, it's okay to free yourself. And he would be free, too, to find another partner who is a better fit for him.

I hope things will work out for you in the long run.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[opalescent]

Go read 'The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman if you have not already done so. It's available on amazone and is also in many library systems. Here is his website that may also be helpful http://www.5lovelanguages.com/. It's extremely helpful in understanding how people show and receive love.

Also, yes get yourself to counseling - hopefully he will go too and it can be couples counseling but go by yourself if need be.

The strengths we initially see in a partner, especially if they are 'opposite' of our normal way of being, can sometimes become over time become annoyances and then outright frustrations. This seems to have happened in your relationship. It might be helpful to you to think about what what changed in you to turn his former strengths into frustrations for you. There might not be anything going on between you but rather something going on in you that may be at the root of some of your difficulties.

Also, let me be clear. I am not saying that you are at fault or you 'caused' the problems. I am saying we often create our own difficulties internally because we change or think differently about something - not because the other person has changed. Of course, one of your concerns is that he has not changed much at all. Consider thinking that over very carefully. Is it actually true that he has had no growth, no learning experiences, nothing at all from when you first got together to now? Now his main personality and approach to life is unlikely to change dramatically, it's true, but perhaps there are some other things you can think of. This might help you see him as he is, not as as you wish him to be, or not as you remember him being.

This is a very difficult situation. Nothing like poly to bring issues to the fore, isn't it? I wish you the best.

 

[kdt26417]

I agree with opalescent, a lot of this is a perception problem, and the Five Love Languages may help. Perhaps all is not lost?

 

[Cholita]

Wow, thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate all of your insights.

As Bluebird mentions, we clearly need some counselling. However, I have looked into it, and unfortunately we cannot afford it at all. I thought that maybe I could invite my husband to join this conversation at some point during our two week break apart. Or if you guys think that is a bad idea?? … then maybe I could try writing him an email articulating some of my thoughts, feelings and conclusions after this. Because our face to face discussions seem to be repeating themselves and getting us nowhere. Being an introspective type it might do him some good to sit with himself and to think, read some others perspectives and express himself in written word.

I am guilty of being an aggressive communicator at times having let my frustrations and resentments build up until they boiled over. I definitely could improve my communication style. But I think at least I am the one who is trying to communicate here and solve our issues where as he has been pretending things are OK and this inaction/lack of acknowledgement on his part has been hard to sit back and watch. But I feel every time I try to address it, it gets even worse. I’m a nagging wife now.

My husband was already a passive communicator who avoids conflict and he seems to have retreated further into his shell since I’ve been bringing up these issues probably because I bring them up in the wrong moments…… He sees me getting extremely upset because he wants to spend an extra day with his other lover (which really isn’t the issue at all, but a small request like that can be a powerful catalyst of strong emotions when our relationship is suffering because our own issues are not being addressed). In the end I feel guilty for constricting their relationship by always having a meltdown when he asks for some flexibility with her. And then he becomes afraid to say things clearly because of my past reactions. This is the cycle we are trapped in.

Tinwen, your suggestion of engaging in hobbies or learning experiences together is something that I have always encouraged for our relationship.
But the problem is that I have always been the initiator and eventually I feel alone in my desire for growth as a couple…. Now he is still not willing to initiate anything and is even slightly less willing to go along with my ideas and plans due to having a busier life and another partner now. So now from fear of rejection and resentment about always being the initiator, I have stopped asking him to do anything with me, just holding onto a thread of hope that one day he will miss me like I miss him and invite me to go away or to do something special together, Surprise me somehow.

I have been trying to take an interest in his music but it seems he resonates more with his girlfriend in that department these days. (and same with me and my BF)… Naturally over the course of time our interests have diverged somewhat and you can’t simply fake an interest in each other’s interests to help the relationship. We need to find new joint interests but its difficult when only one partner is thinking about it.

I am trying really hard to meet more of my need for exploration by myself, by focusing on my own projects and hobbies, reading lots, spending more time being productive by myself and spending time with others who inspire me. This helps fulfill me somewhat but it feels like our relationship is becoming less meaningful if we are always too busy for each other or pursuing our own hobbies and interests.

Last summer when all of this started, I started going out a lot by myself and always looking for another partner to connect with. I made lots of amazing friends along the way and it was somewhat fulfilling. But I think I need a partner who enjoys going on little adventures together as much as I do and I really wish it would just be him forever because I love him so much. <3

I think at this point I can only let go of my resentment if I see some interest and initiative from him.


Galagirl gave it to me straight,
But my fear here is that I am actually looking for too much in a partner, being too much of an idealist, as my past 2 other longest relationships (3 years each) have also been with fairly passive, easy going types and have all ended with me feeling this way (stagnant). So I feel like maybe it’s just me being insatiable and maybe I have some kind of void in me. I don’t want to throw my marriage away because I am chasing the unobtainable.
Or maybe I chose partners who were safe options for me rather than the more challenging ones.

So either I have a need to grow that is not being met by this relationship or maybe I am simply not at peace with myself.

The idea of all relationships having a clock attached is confronting but realistic.
I look at my grandparents in their 80’s and they seem very happy. But their values are different and thus they would derive happiness from their relationship in a different way. Apples and oranges. Cant ask them for their secret as it wont apply to us.

Galagirl “I wonder if you have come to realize that he's not actually an*active*partner in the relationship and this is very important to you in a partner?”

He has been the most emotionally supportive person I’ve ever had in my life. He has nurtured me through some of the hardest times I have ever faced and seen the ugliest sides of me without ever judging me. So it would be unfair to say that he is not an ‘active partner’. He contributes a lot in terms of day to day domestic life and in each of those acts I feel his love shining through. He nurtures me a lot in some ways…maybe he even babies me a little…….But the lack of mental and physical exploration and discovery means our love is turning into ‘family like love’ and losing all of the intrigue and passion. We do share very meaningful deep conversation and connect intellectually but there is some emotional block that is stopping us from connecting fully like we used to.

I think he really needs to be more assertive and clear about asking me for what he wants from the relationship. I do not believe him that he thinks everything is OK and that he is happy like this… I have been far from perfect, but he has never complained about any of my behavior or ever asked me for anything more. He is very reluctant to point the finger at me, even though i always do it to him.....I am sure that some of my behavior is also responsible for this mess we are in but he doesn’t blame me at all or ever point out my weaknesses. Even if it would hurt me or be really confronting for me I think that he should tell me when I am behaving badly and push me to be better person as I have done with him. But after the storm he always prefers to smooth things over and get on with the day to day stuff. Sweep things under the rug, pretend it didn’t happen, forgive and forget. I think he really values peace and calm more than growth and discovery. But for me life is not about being comfortable all the time and avoiding hardship and confrontation, I’m always eager to uncover all the most painful wounds and heal them in a quest for authenticity and growth. His approach is gentle and un-judgmental which is so beautiful, but maybe really a form of avoidance. Its hard to psychoanalyse someone who is so reserved.

WhatHappened: I was the one who first suggested poly, I think this happened when our relationship was in a good place. Although he wasn’t too keen on it at first and found the idea risky, he was open to having ideological and philosophical discussions about love. After many of these discussions, we both agreed to try poly. I was always very concerned about doing it right, an avid poster on these forums and reading books on the topic. It was my curiosity that lead us down this path but with his full consent and we have nurtured each other through the moments of jealousy and insecurity.
In the beginning of our poly journey it seemed to strengthen us, we recognized how important respect, honesty and transparency were to us and we felt proud to have achieved that level of independence and good communication whilst maintaining our passion for one another…. and our exploring outside fueled the passion for us.

 

[Cholita]

I like to think that we started this journey because were both curious and open to the possibility of experiencing romantic love with more people than just ourselves. That we fully believed in our own love and felt comfortable and secure enough to share it with others.

I don’t think we were looking to compensate for something that was missing with our relationship….. But now looking at the present state of our relationship maybe it is possible that I was already beginning to feel the twinges of stagnancy and was already subconsciously aware of the limits of this relationship.

Of course in the hardest moments there is always a tendency to blame our current problems on our decision to go poly.

Husband worries that I compare too much….that I want him to be more proactive and I want our relationship to be more exiting just because my BF is very active and motivated and we are in the throws of NRE. But I think this is him not wanting to admit that the problem is between us and not wanting to do something about it.

Opalescent, even though we have grown so much together we are still essentially the same people. I can remember very early on in the relationship having similar arguments to the ones we are still having 7 years later. There was always this problem, but the romance and dedication to one another made us push through it and accept one another ....and the enjoyment we got from discovering new things together outweighed all of the challenges.

I don’t know what changed in me that lead me to see in my husband a person who is passive and unwilling, instead of a person who is simply calm, gentle and grounded.

I know that polyamory is not the root cause of any of this…..But it has certainly made things a lot more complicated, confusing and a lot more challenging for us. I certainly resent him spending time with her while our relationship is going down the drain, but i also feel guilty placing any restrictions on him because he has only ever treated my relationships with others with such grace and even if he was hurting he never asked me slow down or anything with other people. He has always given me complete freedom to grow and live my life and I want to do the same for him.

 

[kdt26417]

I think it would be a good idea to have him read this thread (and participate in it if he feels so inclined).

 

[GalaGirl]

You have a lot of layers going on there.

Let me repeat back what you said in your response so I know I got it ok. You correct me if I get anything wrong. I change the order a bit to try to group like things together and go in the order I think makes most sense. I quote just to visually block it off. Maybe seeing it formatted in another way helps you some?

1) MY BEHAVIOR: HOW I PICK MY PARTNERS

I chose partners who were safe options for me rather than the more challenging ones.

• I tend to choose fairly passive, easy going types in my dating history. They have all ended with me feeling stagnant.
• I am afraid to choose different partner types because I am afraid that what I am looking for in a partner is too much to ask for.
• I am afraid I am being too idealistic in what I am seeking in a partner.
• The result of my picking the same type over and over even though it all ends the same?
  • My needs are not met.
  • Then I'm not at peace with myself, because I'm the one putting me here again.

2) DO I WANT TO END MY MARRIAGE?

• I don't get what I need here.
• Can I communicate what I need well? When I say something, can he repeat it back to me in his own words so I know he got it how i meant it?
• Once he understands the request, is he willing/able to give me what I need?
• Or am I just done trying here? It's me who is no longer willing/able. (Only you can answer that.)

3) MY PARTNER'S BEHAVIOR IN OUR RELATIONSHIP

My current partner is good at these things:

• emotional support in hard times
• contributing to day to day domestic life
• meaningful conversation
• intellectual connection

My current partner is NOT good at these things:

• Bringing ideas for new experiences to the table.
• New mental and physical exploration /discovery (<--not sure what you mean by this. Travel? Adventure? Something else?)
• Conflict resolution/solving problems in a way I enjoy
• Emotional connection
• introspection with me -- I like to think about the relationship and process it a lot. He doesn't.

Double Edged sword things:

• My partner does not judge me. Great that I'm not judged/shamed, but neither do I get constructive feedback which I do want.
• My partner is good at nurturing me/babying me. I like the support, but that's not really encouraging me to grow beyond my current abilities. I want someone to help push me OUT of the comfort zone, not keep me in it.

Behavior I want that I don't get:

• I want my husband to date me too, not just my GF. (Unspoken???)

4) MY BEHAVIOR IN OUR RELATIONSHIP

• I don't believe him at his Word.
• I behave poorly sometimes
• I create "storms"
• I want him to push me to be better... do I take personal responsibility and push me too?

Is that it? Any other layers?

I think when you have a multilayer problem, you could organize it and pick dealing with the biggest stressors first. Even if there are still some stressors left, perhaps they become more doable because the big ones are off your plate. YKWIM?

I think he really needs to be more assertive and clear about asking me for what he wants from the relationship.

He's been clear and assertive. He's said he's ok, he doesn't want anything at this time.

I do not believe him that he thinks everything is OK and that he is happy like this.

Why not? He's responsible for telling you how he feels. He's reporting that he feels ok. Sounds like he's doing his side of the job and telling you.

If YOU are not feeling ok? You could report it and make him aware.

I have been far from perfect...I am sure that some of my behavior is also responsible for this mess we are in... I think that he should tell me when I am behaving badly and push me to be better person....

This reads like you regret some behaviors you did and you want him to sort of "parent" you. Not really his job. It's your job to choose your behaviors. You can correct the ones that weren't so hot, or not do them in the first place. If you are creating "storms" in the heat of the moment and later regret it... Maybe you want to take personal responsibility, apologize, and look at non-violent communication?

But after the storm he always prefers to smooth things over and get on with the day to day stuff.

And what would you like to do instead?

I think he really values peace and calm more than growth and discovery. But for me life is not about being comfortable all the time and avoiding hardship and confrontation, I’m always eager to uncover all the most painful wounds and heal them in a quest for authenticity and growth.

You seem to WANT "confrontation and hardship" -- is that what you thrive in? Maybe instead of looking for that in your home life it could be better in your career? Like if you were an EMT, firefighter or some other "first responder" kind of job?

If you are restless and itching for stimulus, find appropriate thrills -- in your work, in your hobbies (zip lines? roller coasters?), in volunteering. Don't be creating drama at home. That can alienate people.

Husband worries that I compare too much….that I want him to be more proactive and I want our relationship to be more exiting just because my BF is very active and motivated and we are in the throws of NRE. But I think this is him not wanting to admit that the problem is between us and not wanting to do something about it.

Or some of what he says could be true. Maybe you want everything to be "gung ho" all the time because you crave lots of stimulus and the plain fact is that each relationship is going to have its own pace.

And some of what you say could be true. Maybe he could step it up a bit and give you more attention/court you.

BOTTOM LINE: HE IS A MELLOW DUDE

He's not a "gung ho all the time" kind of guy. You have to figure out if you want to be in a relationship with husband like that or not. He might be great in many ways, but if he's not a good fit for you as a husband, he's just not a good fit.

If you want to end it, end it. Part peacefully.

In future STOP picking this passive type out for yourself so you avoid future headache and stagnation. How many passive types do you have to date before you decide "Nope. BTDT. Not again."

If you want to be here with him? Do not compare with the NRE BF relationship. Work on your communication style so there are less "storms." Seek appropriate thrills/stimulus and if he's usually agreeable? Go ahead and plan some travel/adventure stuff if that's what you want more of.

"Discovery and growth" isn't only about ferreting out "wounds and hardship and confrontation." Eventually you get to the end of the wounds, right? Then what?

You almost sound like you are looking for a fight because it's stimulating, and you are bummed out because he won't play like that. Is that it?

BOTTOM LINE: WHAT YOU WANT FROM THE RELATIONSHIP

I certainly resent him spending time with her while our relationship is going down the drain, but i also feel guilty placing any restrictions on him because he has only ever treated my relationships with others with such grace and even if he was hurting he never asked me slow down or anything with other people. He has always given me complete freedom to grow and live my life and I want to do the same for him.

Do you envy that he's putting time and energy into developing his relationship with his GF, when his relationship with you is being taken for granted and he doesn't date/court you in fun, exciting ways any more? You feel envious because she's getting something from him you don't get and you would like from him? And getting it from your BF doesn't really help because (getting courted by BF) is not (getting courted by husband?)

If so? Again, take your own advice.

Have the emotional courage to take the initiative and just ask point blank for what behavior you would like without nagging, without blowing up, or bad behaviors that you are later ashamed of doing. Risk feeling vulnerable and just putting it out there as a PLAIN REQUEST.

Tell him you miss being courted by him, and you would like him to court you again. That you are happy for him to court his GF too, but watching him put energy there and not here makes you feel taken for granted and not appreciated.

And maybe read poly hell together in case any of that is going on here.

See if being direct and calm yields better results. Just TELL him what you want and ask if he's willing to do that. He either does it or he does not. Then you can go from there.

Right now i have asked him to stay with a friend for 2 weeks so that we can have a break from each other and try to miss each other a bit. And for him to see the bigger picture.

You sound like you sent him away so he hopefully misses you and then maybe starts giving you attention as a result.

Seems a lot faster to me to just ask for what you would like without "hinting." If you want some fun, exciting dates with him, ask him out and get on to the dates. And ask him to ask you out and plan the dates sometimes so it isn't always on you.

But if the bigger picture is that you are bored and it's stagnant here and you feel sad and are grieving that this might be the end? Do your grieving and part ways peacefully. Don't keep trying to fly a kite that won't fly. That's stuff only you can answer. So maybe during this break time do some soul searching?

HTH!
Galagirl

 

[FallenAngelina]

...I am simply not at peace with myself.

This is at the heart of 99% of relationship issues. (I say 99% because if I told you it was 100%, you wouldn't believe me.)

Focusing on the other guy's shortcomings and picking relationship problems apart is what we're all taught to do in order to "get somewhere," but those approaches yield paltry results compared to cultivating our own inner peace. It's amazing how much sturm und drang just falls away the more we turn from needing to solve problems and instead turn inward and focus on quieting our own mind. Relationships become so much more rewarding, intimate and durable because all of our outer relationships reflect our inner world. When you are struggling with an internal issue, your relationships will show it to you over and over again. That's really helpful information that many of us are dismissing as the other guy's "fault." When you are at peace with yourself, your relationships are at peace as well.

 

[Ravenscroft]

I like most of the advice I'm seeing here.

For most people, it's utter nonsense to assume that "opening up" a dyad is easy -- this is a fundamental change, & in fact essentially a NEW relationship altogether. It requires examining stuff that's never before needed attention, & often wasn't consciously known to exist. This study can be irritating & even outright revolting. And once unpacked, many people refuse to throw stuff out even if it's outright putrescent, & insist on repacking it "in case."

My take, Cholita, is that you're being blinkered by lovey-dovey together-forever Romanticist nonsense, pop lyrics looking for a melody. Like,

it just doesn't feel like a journey anymore ... i can't see our future together anymore ... I don't think we inspire each other anymore

For having discovered polyamory, it sounds like you're still insisting on couple-centric Monogamism, merely opened up ateensy bit.

Why do you need to be (proverbially) joined at the hip in order to remain partners??

Why are you clinging to so much ALL OR NOTHING thinking?

What is WRONG (in your mind) with learning to maybe be great roommates & happy co-conspirators rather than continuing the empty charade of looking like the sort of "respectable couple" that Mommy would approve?

And rather than digging up old buried owies in order to mount a case against your soon-to-be-ex partner, what is preventing you from taking this opportunity to learn from them, fix YOU, & approach relating from this point in a somewhat more-fully adult manner?

 

[FallenAngelina]

Why do you need to be (proverbially) joined at the hip in order to remain partners??

Why are you clinging to so much ALL OR NOTHING thinking?

What is WRONG (in your mind) with learning to maybe be great roommates & happy co-conspirators rather than continuing the empty charade of looking like the sort of "respectable couple" that Mommy would approve?

And rather than digging up old buried owies in order to mount a case against your soon-to-be-ex partner, what is preventing you from taking this opportunity to learn from them, fix YOU, & approach relating from this point in a somewhat more-fully adult manner?

This is one of the greatest joys in life: coming to a place where you see that the world of possibilities is VAST and ever expanding. Many of us struggle and strain to look like everyone else. Even poly people often contort themselves into knots, trying to do poly the "right way." There are no end of injustices that you can collect and no limit to the number of ways that you can see how people fail you and how you fail yourself. Why live like that?

 

[Cholita]

Galagirl, Thanks for taking the time to give me that detailed reply. I like the way you organised each of my thoughts.
Below is a few things you said that I would like to comment on.

“I want him to push me to be better... do I take personal responsibility and push me too?”

I do, I spend a lot of time in my own head reflecting on how I could do better and be a better person. Read a lot personal growth and relationship books. I see a psych and I strive to grow all the time. I think I see my husband not pushing himself very much so I give him a little push sometimes . E.g. “you haven’t been doing any exercise lately, it’s not good to sit on the computer all day, when are we joining the gym together?”, "you should see a doctor about that",“have you been looking for a new job?” (because he is not happy at his current job), "have you called your family" (he always misses them but never calls them). I realize its not our job to “parent” one another but constructive feedback and encouragement is always good because we humans are not perfectly aware of what our own needs are all the time.

“But after the storm he always prefers to smooth things over and get on with the day to day stuff….And what would you like to do instead?”

After an argument calms down into a discussion, he is able to repeat back to me what I’ve said in his own words so that I am sure he got it, but in the end there is no action or change so the same arguments keep popping up again and again.. Action speaks louder than words..

Have the emotional courage to take the initiative and just ask point blank for what behavior you would like without nagging, without blowing up, or bad behaviors that you are later ashamed of doing. Risk feeling vulnerable and just putting it out there as a PLAIN REQUEST.*

I did that already, in between the bits where I was blowing up I was also realizing the damage I was doing and reading some books on how to communicate better, later I came back to him and was calm and direct. In plain English said I wanted him to invite me on some dates or a holiday together and that I wanted them to be his idea and him to be the initiator, I wanted to be surprised sometimes…. I told him I know I get upset when you wanna spend time with your GF but its not really about the amount of time you want to spend with her, I can really be quite flexible with that, it’s the quality of time we spend together that needs work. Our domestic lives are really entwined, and we have a really routine homelife. I feel like im not a part of his social life at all because she gets to go to his music gigs but I haven’t been invited for a long time. That kinda hurts me bcos that is how we met. OK i dont need to go to those specific gigs or whatever but i want to do something special with him even if its something completely different, (actually the more different the better).

You sound like you sent him away so he hopefully misses you and then maybe starts giving you attention as a result.*

No, that’s not it Galagirl…. I didn’t just hint at what I wanted and then send him away to manipulate him into missing me… I asked directly for specific behaviors. And they were simple easy things too.. If I thought he was unwilling because he didn’t love me anymore I would have given up by now. But I do believe him when he says he loves me. So what is standing in the way of making some positive changes for the relationship? ….I don’t know because I don’t get constructive feedback on my behavior, he doesn’t ask me for things? I don’t know what his emotional needs are anymore??
That is why I asked him if we could take a break because I think my husband needs to spend some time with himself reflecting. He feels stuck in the middle with me and his GF and the only moments he has to himself he usually distracts himself with making music on the computer (its like hes using his fave hobby/passion as an escape and avoiding processing his own emotions). I told him if he felt like he needed to come home then he was welcome, nobody is kicking him out I just thought it would be good to have some time to reflect and try to step back and see things from a different angle. Also for him to spend time with a male friend, I noticed he never talks to anyone about anything personal, so he doesnt have much of an outlet or a support system.

First few days he was sad and saying he missed me 3 times a day, I didn’t enjoy it because I felt wanted or something like that….I actually felt suffocated by it and I felt guilty because he was hurting. So I made sure I explained properly that the purpose of the break was to help us by giving us some time to reflect and reconnect with ourselves... and if he didn’t feel it was helping us he could come home at any time.

He said he wanted to continue trying the break, then after a couple more days he sent me a very thoughtful text message, yesterday expressing himself in a way I haven’t heard him do in a long time…. and saying that the break was doing him good. And I was so happy because for a long time I have known that he is not 100% OK, but he avoids thinking about confronting things and prefers to distract himself.

You almost sound like you are*looking*for a fight because it's*stimulating,*and you are bummed out because he won't play like that. Is that it?*

Nahhh i think i know things are not really OK, but ive been trying really hard not to explode or be aggressive anymore for fear of pushing him away even more. So i suppress my emotions a lot too, and then when the perfect trigger pops up like him asking for an extra night with GF then it all comes out and i get all confrontational. Im trying to identify the emotions before they sneak up on me, and ask him questions to elicit better communitcation from him.

I think one of the hardest things is knowing that the person you love the most is not 100% OK but you cant figure out what is wrong with them and they wont tell you and theres nothing you can do to make them happy or meet their needs anymore. Break down of communication is what this is…. He’s not comfortable opening up to me anymore about his deepest feelings and of course im wondering if its because I exploded so many times. It bothers me deeply that for a long time now he has wanted to spend more time with her but has been afraid to ask me because i exploded in the past. Now its like im a barrier to his happiness.

Maybe what im doing right now (identifying and admitting my faults, seeking advice on forums, thinking, reading, strategizing) is my attempt of taking responsibility for my behavior. I want to fix things! I want to be the best person I can for him, but I also want a certain level of reciprocity….And not just for my needs to be met but for him to look after himself. I think he neglects himself.. Or maybe ….he is simply a mellow guy and he doesn’t need anything and im just meddling with him and not listening to him when he said hes OK..

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad it helped some. Thank you for clarifying with extra info.

I think you could back off.

• Stop with the reminders about calling his family and job application and whatnot.
  
• Stop asking for his deepest feelings. Even if you want to know them and he's not all that vocal about it.
  
• Stop sending him on breaks so he can do his emotional processing that he neglects to do, and instead seeks escapism via music or whatever.
  

Focus on one or two things and let the rest be his job and his responsibility to deal with.

1) Tell him he can see his GF whenever and just not tell you what social activities they do as a couple. But also tell him you want to be taken out once a week on Friday or whatever day. And you would like him to plan it and be a surprise. And then praise him for the effort even if he picks stuff that's boring to you.

You have to start SOMEWHERE, and hopefully over time you can come up with things together that you would enjoy. Right now just getting OUT would be good since you are stuck in a rut with domestic life and have no social life as a couple.

2) Ask him to get a check up for depression to rule that out.

Right now it sounds like you have become sort of his "manager" for his stuff and you are burnt out and tired of "carrying" him. He's become your "project" rather than your "partner."

So when he takes initiative wanting to hang with his GF, it burns you because he's taking initiative. Not so much the hanging out with the GF part... but the suddenly he has initiative part. Yet he's been coasting with you.

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

I think I see my husband not pushing himself very much so I give him a little push sometimes . E.g. “you haven’t been doing any exercise lately, it’s not good to sit on the computer all day, when are we joining the gym together?”, "you should see a doctor about that",“have you been looking for a new job?” (because he is not happy at his current job), "have you called your family" (he always misses them but never calls them). I realize its not our job to “parent” one another but constructive feedback and encouragement is always good because we humans are not perfectly aware of what our own needs are all the time.
...
I asked him if we could take a break because I think my husband needs to spend some time with himself reflecting.

Oh wow, you certainly direct him around a lot. I must be exhausting. I may be comfortable for him, but it must be killing passion.

Also, I don't think a proper nudge towards personal growth is reminding him of excercise or calling his mom. Actually quite the opposite. How is he to realize that those things are important to him, if it is you telling him that he should do those things?
(Don't take me as absolute, there are a lot of subtleties, but you get the idea.)

I agree with Galagirl. Just... stop managing his life.

I certainly agree with Galagirl on the depression check up too.

my husband not pushing himself very much...
...in the end there is no action or change...
...I have known that he is not 100% OK...
...He’s not comfortable opening up to me anymore about his deepest feelings...
...I think he neglects himself..

Those are all points that hint, that your husband may be very low in energy. I do not know if it's just low in comparison to you. But lack of motivation, difficulty following up your words with action, lack of joy and passion, closing off (because feeling and verbalizing your feelings is just so hard), not knowing what would help you... can be all signs of depression.
If so, the issue can lie pretty deep. Don't try to manage this one for him.

 

[Cholita]

My take, Cholita, is that you're being blinkered by lovey-dovey together-forever Romanticist nonsense, pop lyrics looking for a melody. Like,
For having discovered polyamory, it sounds like you're still insisting on couple-centric Monogamism, merely opened up ateensy bit.

Why do you need to be (proverbially) joined at the hip in order to remain partners??

Why are you clinging to so much ALL OR NOTHING thinking?

What is WRONG (in your mind) with learning to maybe be great roommates & happy co-conspirators rather than continuing the empty charade of looking like the sort of "respectable couple" that Mommy would approve?

As you said opening up a dyad is not easy.... for 6 years we had the respectable fairytale joined at the hip thing... Not because we cared about what mommy thinks or societal norms. We just literally could not get enough of each other. Such a strong connection like nothing ever!! Call it NRE or call it Love or whatever but was something extraordinary. I am not refusing to throw out my previous models, I am trying my damned hardest to reconciliate my feelings with the new ones. Just reading "more than two" which advocates for a non-hierarchical form of polyamory, unlike the article "poly hell" which Gala girl suggested earlier which seems to suggest that some bracketting of secondary relationships is OK. I think despite my insecurities that I am really an egalitarian at heart, but the success of a non-hierarchical V would depend a lot on the hinges ability to communicate and manage.

Over the last 6 months Ive been struggling with myself between strong emotions wanting to get back those nice feelings from the past and logical rational thought telling my that its not so bad to have an easy going room mate as a husband and perhaps get my passion fix elsewhere. I am aware that i inflict some of my own pain with absolutist thinking sometimes. But yeh the stuff i said about my hubby is also a bit true. That he is so distracted that doesnt take care of all aspects of his life including his relationships is also true. So one thing that I have been developing is a keen awareness of my broken thoughts and bad habbits. I dont think he does as much self-reflecting as I do, but i guess to what degree is he obligated too??? I would think more so in polyamory are we pushed to reflect on our behaviours than in monogamy because its a much bigger responsibility, with being connected to more hearts and differently thinking minds.

 

[Cholita]

Those are all points that hint, that your husband may be very low in energy. I do not know if it's just low in comparison to you. But lack of motivation, difficulty following up your words with action, lack of joy and passion, closing off (because feeling and verbalizing your feelings is just so hard), not knowing what would help you... can be all signs of depression.
If so, the issue can lie pretty deep. Don't try to manage this one for him

He is a mellow guy for sure, but lately he has been really low on energy and its from living a hectic lifestyle as well as being with two women who have pulled him in either direction because both feel they are not getting their needs met.

The break was something he really needed, but he wouldnt have taken the break if i didn't suggest it.

So I am going to try and do what you are all saying and not manage or direct him with anything. Its his responsibility to recognise what he needs and ask each of us what he needs to be happy with each of us.