It's a Texlahoma Story

OMG y'all I have such a crush :eek::eek::eek:

I have been texting with this guy from okc for a few days now and... Shit, he's like PERFECT. I'm trying soooo hard not to get ahead of myself on this but but but... SQUEEEEEE CRUSH.

Poly-ish, divorced but lives with his ex, still best friends. Loves dogs. Smart in a way that almost intimidates me - he has founded and run several super intellectual websites and still does his smart person day job. Can geek out on architecture and design with me AND geek out on comics with me. And he's HOT. My type 100%.

I'm so totally screwed.

I know it's bad because I've just lost all interest in the other half dozen okc guys I've been talking to. I shouldn't get like this before I've even met somebody!!!

Option 1: behave like a sane person and continue chatting/meeting with other people until I have actually gotten to know this guy.

Option 2: bliss out on squee feelings and dance around like an idiot every time he texts me.

Decisions, decisions... ;)
 
2 :d
 
Crush, Day 5... Still walking around smiling like a complete idiot all day. Can't sit still. What a fabulous feeling. I almost don't want to even meet him, just live in this yummy state of possibility forever. Except... I do want to meet him. Because, crush.



You know how everyone always says opening up a relationship will reveal all of its cracks, and magnify all of its problems? I didn't feel that ever. You know what is revealing and magnifying all of the issues in my relationship with Andy? MONOGAMY. Even this not-really-monogamy of me not currently seeing anyone else/ Andy spending less time with Steph in a weird attempt to make me feel better.

You guys, we just spend WAY too much time together when we aren't busy with other partners. To the point where we start to really get on each other's nerves. My random anxiety flare ups kick up Andy's over sensitive "you're mad at me" radar, and then we argue about whether or not we are arguing. Or his boredom/tiredness/bad moods trigger my need to "fix", and he feels pestered and nagged.

When I'm dating someone else... I just fixate on Andy/Andy's mood/our relationship less. It sounds awful to say other people are a distraction, but they kind of are. Not in the sense that I'm deliberately using them that way, but in the sense that having someone else to talk to/think about keeps me from getting too deep in my head about every little thing with Andy.

We just aren't good at setting aside time apart. Neither of us has big needs for alone time, so we usually get our time apart when we do stuff with dates/partners. After 15 years together, all of our friends are shared friends, we do all family stuff together. Our time to be social as individuals is really limited to when we hang out with other partners and their friends/families.

When we don't do that, we fall into this thing where one of us wants to do something, the other doesn't, so we skip it or compromise on something else. It's frustrating. I should just go do things by myself, but sometimes I'd rather do them with someone else. But we are just completely out of the habit of doing stuff with friends as individuals. I don't ever text K... I use the group chat with K, R, Andy, and me. Same with all our friends. Even D, who was my BFF first, is now equally close to both of us.

So whether it's a couple activity or a group activity - there's this sense of, if you don't want to go, I don't get to go. Or, I have to go just because you want to go. Which results in a lot of sulking and such. Followed by anxiety, boredom, bad moods, and the bickering described above...:rolleyes:

Our neuroses are bumping up against each other in the worst way today, ugh.
 
Crush, Day 5... Still walking around smiling like a complete idiot all day. Can't sit still. What a fabulous feeling. I almost don't want to even meet him, just live in this yummy state of possibility forever. Except... I do want to meet him. Because, crush.

Yay for crushes! I wish I currently had one other than Beckett. LOL.

So whether it's a couple activity or a group activity - there's this sense of, if you don't want to go, I don't get to go. Or, I have to go just because you want to go. Which results in a lot of sulking and such.

This...why is it like this, though? Like, even if you guys are both equally good friends with all your friends, why not leave one of you home if that person doesn't want to go?

One of the things that Rider and I often verbalize about loving about our relationship is that there isn't that sense of obligation to always do all the same stuff. Once in a while one or the other of us will offer to provide company to the other to something that isn't our cup of tea, out of support or whatever, but it isn't necessary or expected.

Each of us has been in those relationships in the past with the feeling and the obligation and the huffing and sighing and sulking, and both of us agree that it is just so great to be able to say, "No, really, you go and have fun—I'm fine staying here (or going to do XYZ other thing)." You guys have that option too! Or, at least, if you don't, and it's bugging you, you can work up to it, right?
 
This...why is it like this, though? Like, even if you guys are both equally good friends with all your friends, why not leave one of you home if that person doesn't want to go?

One of the things that Rider and I often verbalize about loving about our relationship is that there isn't that sense of obligation to always do all the same stuff. Once in a while one or the other of us will offer to provide company to the other to something that isn't our cup of tea, out of support or whatever, but it isn't necessary or expected.

Each of us has been in those relationships in the past with the feeling and the obligation and the huffing and sighing and sulking, and both of us agree that it is just so great to be able to say, "No, really, you go and have fun—I'm fine staying here (or going to do XYZ other thing)." You guys have that option too! Or, at least, if you don't, and it's bugging you, you can work up to it, right?

I think it's mostly habit. Ours and our friends'. Couples frequently get treated as package deals in social stuff.

Friend A: wanna go see X movie this weekend?
Me: yes!!
Andy: that movie looks awful. Pass.
Friend A: oh then let's go see movie Y instead!

Plus sometimes Andy just doesn't like going to stuff without a "buddy". He is an introvert and large groups aren't fun for him unless he has either 1) a fellow introvert buddy to hang with if shit gets overwhelming or 2) an extrovert to effectively socialize for two.

Andy: Bunch of work people are doing sushi tonight, wanna go?
Me: sorry babe I'm beat! But you go and have fun!
Andy: Nah, it won't be fun going alone.

But this is where I see how poly glosses over that issue! Because add another partner, and everything changes.

Andy: Bunch of work people are doing sushi tonight, wanna go?
Me: sorry babe I'm beat! But you go and have fun!
Andy: I'll go if Steph decides to go.

Again, a close friend would have the same effect, I think. Maybe. There is definitely a vibe that people come in pairs... Both in the sense that an invite includes a plus one for everyone, and that you don't expect a yes from one member of an established couple and a no from the other.

Steph will either take Andy as her plus one, or skip things. Andy will take either me or Steph... We are both sufficiently busy/uninterested in random social gatherings that it's highly unusual we'd both want to go, lol.

It's just a random thing I realized the past couple of weeks. I was wanting to go to a bar Andy doesn't like much, and I would normally just have gone with Dag. But pretty much anyone else I'd invite would be all "but Andy!!" and want to pick a different place that he enjoyed, too.

Definitely something we need to work on, whether it's convincing the world that we are capable of negotiating an outing without the buddy system, or making new platonic friends who share interests.
 
I think it's mostly habit. Ours and our friends'. Couples frequently get treated as package deals in social stuff.

Friend A: wanna go see X movie this weekend?
Me: yes!!
Andy: that movie looks awful. Pass.
Friend A: oh then let's go see movie Y instead!

Plus sometimes Andy just doesn't like going to stuff without a "buddy". He is an introvert and large groups aren't fun for him unless he has either 1) a fellow introvert buddy to hang with if shit gets overwhelming or 2) an extrovert to effectively socialize for two.

Andy: Bunch of work people are doing sushi tonight, wanna go?
Me: sorry babe I'm beat! But you go and have fun!
Andy: Nah, it won't be fun going alone.

But this is where I see how poly glosses over that issue! Because add another partner, and everything changes.

Andy: Bunch of work people are doing sushi tonight, wanna go?
Me: sorry babe I'm beat! But you go and have fun!
Andy: I'll go if Steph decides to go.

Again, a close friend would have the same effect, I think. Maybe. There is definitely a vibe that people come in pairs... Both in the sense that an invite includes a plus one for everyone, and that you don't expect a yes from one member of an established couple and a no from the other.

Steph will either take Andy as her plus one, or skip things. Andy will take either me or Steph... We are both sufficiently busy/uninterested in random social gatherings that it's highly unusual we'd both want to go, lol.

It's just a random thing I realized the past couple of weeks. I was wanting to go to a bar Andy doesn't like much, and I would normally just have gone with Dag. But pretty much anyone else I'd invite would be all "but Andy!!" and want to pick a different place that he enjoyed, too.

Definitely something we need to work on, whether it's convincing the world that we are capable of negotiating an outing without the buddy system, or making new platonic friends who share interests.

I'm the introvert in our relationship, and, yes, I am often the one who stays home. But I would never let my wanting to stay home stop Rider from going out. On the contrary, I often INSIST he go to whatever thing it is, and relish that little bit of time of having the house to myself. Maybe if Andy feels the same way, you guys could mention that to your friends and that would stop them from wanting to plan in such a way to lure him out. A lot of times, for me, if I get a whiff of possible alone time, I start to get excited about it, and hearing that plans have been changed to accommodate me, while sweet, would actually kind of annoy me. :p It isn't always that way, but a lot of times it is.

And then a lot of times the stuff that I want to do that Rider doesn't isn't social stuff at all. It's, like, going to wander around outside, or going to some kind of yoga class at which I don't expect to have to actually talk to anyone, or going to see some movie that he doesn't want to see that I'd be equally as happy just going to alone.

We do a LOT of stuff together though. Like if we're not at work, we're probably together by default most of the times. So sometimes it is just good to get away for a bit! I can't do "joined at the hip all the time forever," no matter how much I like someone!
 
It's weird, on tests Andy is always an introvert and I'm always an extrovert. But we actually both prefer smallish social situations - and I like alone time way more than he does. Mostly we both just like hanging with one other person at all times, and we default to just doing everything as a pair, unless we push ourselves out of that comfort zone. Which we need to do, at least sometimes!

In other news, Crush continues to be crush-worthy :eek: We've been texting for hours every day, about everything and nothing. It's just... Fun, and easy, and exciting, and awesome.

And SUCH a contrast to the married poly dudes of okc. I haven't bothered chatting with anyone,but I still check my messages. At least half of them start "Hi, I'm So and So, and I'm in an open relationship, too!!!" Ugh. Well, since we're both non monogamous, we're obviously perfect for each other! :rolleyes:

The rest is usually worse. "My wife and I are exploring polyamory together! This journey is making our marriage stronger! We are looking forward to growing as a couple by loving others!" Soooo... Basically, you want me to be the human equivalent of a cruise? Something you do to improve your existing relationship?

I am all for healthy happy long term marriages - but I'm also more than an accessory, or a box on a checklist. If a guy doesn't want a relationship with me for himself, for its own sake, then no, I'm not going to date him just so he can feel like he's poly-ing with his wife. I actually read a guy's profile the other day that said, my wife found a boyfriend, so I have some nights free, and I'm looking for a girlfriend! Dude, no.

I used to feel a ton of sympathy for poly guys trying to date, because I get that it's hard to find women who are up for non-mono relationships. But now I'm like, hey, guys! It's not the poly that's the problem! It's you! :p
 
I generally ignore messages from guys who start off with anything along the lines of "Hey, we have a lot in common, I'm poly too!" (Or worse, "I'm married and playing/cheating too!" when my profile says I'm married and in a committed relationship, and both partners are fully aware of what I'm doing.)

I had a message from a guy yesterday who obviously read my profile, because he mentioned a subtle reference I made to Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy...but said that if I checked out his profile, he was sure I would "see some parallels." I checked his profile. Other than being married, we have nothing in common at all, and his profile didn't indicate whether he's married and poly or married and cheating. So I messaged him back saying I didn't see any parallels and asking him to please bring them to my attention.

On the partner thing... one of the reasons some of the people I formerly thought were friends among the group through which I meant Hubby started backstabbing me was that Hubby stopped going to events with me. They couldn't comprehend a couple *not* going to parties and such together, any more than they could comprehend a couple *not* fucking other people together, so they assumed I'd somehow forced or bullied Hubby into not going with me when the reality was that he doesn't enjoy social gatherings in the slightest, even with his own family, and he'd found out a few things those people had said about me and didn't want to be around them because he was afraid he'd go off on them. But since he's my husband, of course he must have wanted to go with me, because that's what couples do! *Eyeroll*
 
. There is definitely a vibe that people come in pairs... Both in the sense that an invite includes a plus one for everyone, and that you don't expect a yes from one member of an established couple and a no from the other.

I have this problem a lot with my old pre-kid friend groups. They were SO used to TheKnight and I being a couple - like, there was a nickname they used for us as an entity - that since one of us usually has to stay home with the kid we don't get invited to things at all. :mad: One of the reasons my social circle has expanded in different directions from them lately...
 
I really hate that couples are one person thing. I've always done things separately from Guitarist and will continue to do so simply because he's like Andy in that he introverts pretty hard. I'm also an introvert, but I like being more social. Why would I drag him to everything when he clearly doesn't want to go? How selfish would that be of me?

It has historically bothered some people. Family, mostly, because on my mom's side the married couples are very couple-y. But too bad. If people don't want to invite just me to things, I don't want to go. I'm not defined by my relationship.

It's still very frustrating. And there was a lot of internal struggle for me at first with fighting against other people's expectations. Why are people so insistent about stupid stuff like that? Argh.
 
since one of us usually has to stay home with the kid we don't get invited to things at all. :mad:
Oh wow. I've never encountered that. I'm always on the other side - "oh I've been invited here, so nice,... is appropriate to invite my partner along? will they like him? is it even appropriate to ask, if it's been an established group of friend and there's limited capacity?" A struggle sometimes. Of course, couple invitation are a norm as well, and the "oh where did you leave your partner" question gets on my nerves sometimes.
 
Tonight I had one of those long, messy, cathartic cries ... Something I rarely let myself indulge in. I have a real fear of letting myself collapse like that, probably because I know so many people who spiraled into sadness and never climbed back out. But tonight, I cried.

I get so triggered (I know "triggered" is overused but it's really the only word that fits here) whenever I read advice telling people to find inner peace and let go of fear and all their problems with evaporate. Like, I read that stuff, and my heart races, I can't breathe, I feel like I'm choking. How ironic is that, panic attacks caused by advice to find inner peace.

I simply can't get there, to that mellow, everything-happens-for-a-reason state of mind. Is that really how life feels for most people? They just coast on through, secure that they are always doing everything right? I'm generally happy, in that I have a lot of joy in my life... but I'm rarely at peace. I worry. I stress. I overthink. Choices, decisions, life - they're not always easy for me. I wonder if that makes me broken. If there is something deeply wrong with me, that I have uncertainties and struggles. If my very self is so damaged that I am unfit to move in the same world with other people.

Days like this, I have to cry it out. And then dust myself off and remind myself that I'm ok. I'm a good person and I deserve to be happy, even if my happy doesn't look like someone else's.

Yes, I have an anxiety disorder. Seriously, though, my mom stumbled through pregnancy on Valium, lithium, and Marlboros. It's a damn miracle I have a functioning brain stem. Yet I made it through two of the most competitive universities in the country.

Yes, sometimes I struggle with relationships. But I grew up in a house where it was normal to shoot at your spouse, then hit yourself in the face so you could tell the police it was self defense. I wouldn't blame myself for never trusting anyone... And here I am, about to celebrate my 13th wedding anniversary to the love of my life, surrounded by chosen family who love me.

So I refuse to beat myself up anymore for not being "at peace", whatever that means. I like myself and I am proud of myself just the way I am, obsessive overthinking and all. I have fears. I have struggles. I probably always will, but that does not mean I am broken or need fixing. I'm doing the best I can, and anyone who thinks that's not enough is free to live their perfect calm life far away from me.
 
I simply can't get there, to that mellow, everything-happens-for-a-reason state of mind. Is that really how life feels for most people? They just coast on through, secure that they are always doing everything right?
I don't think it's natural for most people. Absolutelly NO. Actually, the opposite.
Only those who've put in an IMMENSE amount of work can claim to really be at peace the most time.

It's an ideal. In my take, ideals are not even to be 'strived for', much more 'walked towards'. Ideals are to be our light to show us the way, not a stick to beat us because we're not yet there (at the unreachable horizon).

'Inner peace' is such a big deal, because, y'know, everybody would like that, but everybody has areas within themselves where they are not at peace. Unless they are enlightened, then they don't have a self ;)

So, what's the point of even trying? Every little step on the journey, every internal conflict we resolve, every increase in your ability to relax and concentrate... improves life by itself immensely. Every step you do is a positive step, an enhancement to what used to be your norm (and still is the norm of a lot of people, if you care for it).
I hope this thought is somewhat comforting...
 
I agree with Tinwen. I really don't think the average person has the inner peace that's referred to in many posts. And, I like her suggestion that we 'walk towards it' as opposed to striving and fighting for it (which is a bit of an oxymoron anyway.) Like NYC says about being at peace could include being at peace with your neuroses (which we all have), I think being at peace would mean that we accept ourselves as we are. Not as we wish to be or as we are striving to be, or as other people tell us we should be, but as we are, hangups, neuroses, strengths, weaknesses, cellulite, stretch marks, physical beauty (or lack thereof) and everything in between.
 
I actually feel the opposite about others often enough.

Other people can be flawed and human, have their emotional outbursts and weak moments but I can't.

Because I'll drive everyone away from me if they see the cracks. The body is flawed, nothing I can do about that...but if my attitude is upbeat and fun, snarky and funny, clever and cool...then people will like me.

How amazing that others can cry or yell or fall apart and the world doesn't turn away, they might even get support! Wow. I wonder what that is about.

My child-self was programmed at some very early, deep and basic level not to assert my needs because expecting others to tend them was a huge imposition and if I were too needy, no one would love me. And I've had experiences since then that have reinforced it...as a friend said, "my childhood programming has primed my brain to receive those messages from the environment."

So I don't assume other people have it together and are running along at peace and happy. I that I have to buck up and be strong and pretend I have my shit together, but other people are allowed to be a mess if they feel the need...I must not. Others are better and more deserving of support than me. What this means is that I fight depressive emotions kicking and screaming (though sometimes they win) because I'm scared I'll fall in and not be able to climb out alone, and I know no one will throw me a line.

The urge to have a good cry scares the shit out of me. So instead if I'm struggling, and I can't distract myself sufficiently, I oversleep. I've slept for days before, or whole weekends, waking only a few hours here and there to take care of necessary biological functions and not eating...I always end up feeling frail and weak and blank.

I guess we've all got our damage though, really...and I'm betting yours isn't anything out of the realm of normal and I'm betting that considering what you've been through, you turned out pretty awesomely functional.
 
Thanks y'all. I'm feeling better today. I think the cry helped. Had another one this morning, with Andy holding me, and listening to me sniffle about how awful everything feels, and telling me it'll all be okay. I needed that.

Lately, I'm just dealing with these intense rushes of emotion that bowl me over at times. Mostly RELIEF at not having to juggle two relationships anymore. I feel like I've been freed from prison or something. My emotions are all over the place as I adjust to this new normal. It's like I finally feel safe enough to cry and feel and experience again... And the waves of joy and sadness are overwhelming.

I'm trying to see the past year as a learning experience rather than a disaster, but man, I wish I'd never heard the term poly. Being sort of vaguely non-monogamous was working so well for me. I got to have my cake and eat it, too - I had a great marriage and the fun of fwb on the side.

But all the research and exploring of "real" polyamory just left me feeling broken and hopeless. I just don't love in a way that works for shuffling between two partners. I feel ashamed of this - shallow, superficial, selfish - but the depth of my feelings for someone really does tend to match with the amount of time we share and the degree to which we entangle our lives.

I tried so damn hard to love Dag the way he deserved to be loved - fully, equally, without reservation or limitations. But the only way I could get there - the only way I could feel that for him - was to push for more time, more entanglement, more, more, more. And in the end, that was cruel to him, and made him feel like he'd failed me somehow.

I just wish I could go back to how it was before. Where I just dated guys for a while, had great sex, had great friendships, and when it stopped being fun, we parted ways. I never felt guilty about that before... I simply assumed that everyone was like me, and saw a "see each other once a week, never intend to move in together or get married" relationship as casual. You might care about each other, a lot - but the relationship itself, the texting and weekly meet ups, the titles of girlfriend and boyfriend, were fairly insignificant things.

Now, though, I just feel all messed up and confused. I don't want to lead people on, get involved and then bail... But I also can't force myself to see something as important when it just isn't, to me. And unless/until somebody is willing to share in all parts of my life, and let me into theirs, I'm not going to love them the way I love Andy and my best friends.

I go back and forth... Some days I think, it's all good! I'll just enjoy low key fwb things until someone comes along who fits into my whole life and welcomes me into theirs. Other days, I feel like there's something horribly wrong with me for being unable to fall deeply in love with someone simply because I don't see them very often - and like I shouldn't inflict my damaged self on anyone else.

Ugh, I'm just rambling now. I should quit trying to explain this all when I'm half asleep.
 
I get so triggered (I know "triggered" is overused but it's really the only word that fits here) whenever I read advice telling people to find inner peace and let go of fear and all their problems with evaporate. Like, I read that stuff, and my heart races, I can't breathe, I feel like I'm choking. How ironic is that, panic attacks caused by advice to find inner peace.....I'm doing the best I can, and anyone who thinks that's not enough is free to live their perfect calm life far away from me.

I can't imagine to whom you're referring. ;)

If you do mean me, there's a bit of a mis-quote or mis-interpretation here of my perspective and what I talk about. It's not possible to never encounter problems, but it's certainly possible to live in fairly steady peace and encounter/create a lot fewer problems than is average. I know that I probably sound arrogant sometimes (?) and I don't mean to ever imply that I am perfect or that anyone should be "further along." I only just mean to offer an alternative to constant sturm und drang that is wresting with others (and with oneself) in relationships. My life has been far from easy and perfect - I wrote a bit about my experiences in Vinsanity's blog - and I've had to accept a lot about myself that has been hard to look at. Because of my own history of severe and repeated loss and betrayal, I can fall to my knees over the slightest hint that I could lose someone that I love and I struggle with fear, just as all of us do. But I definitely have worked a lot on this and have come to see that a peaceful mind isn't a place that you get to, but a practice that you cultivate. I've changed my outer and inner life in some pretty extraordinary ways that are possible for anyone. That's the point of my posts. Our lives are ours to create.
 
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I can't imagine to whom you're referring. ;)

If you do mean me, there's a bit of a mis-quote or mis-interpretation here of my perspective and what I talk about. It's not possible to never encounter problems, but it's certainly possible to live in fairly steady peace and encounter/create a lot fewer problems than is average. I know that I probably sound arrogant sometimes (?) and I don't mean to ever imply that I am perfect or that anyone should be "further along." I only just mean to offer an alternative to constant sturm und drang that is wresting with others (and with oneself) in relationships. My life has been far from easy and perfect - I wrote a bit about my experiences in Vinsanity's blog - and I've had to accept a lot about myself that has been hard to look at. Because of my own history of severe and repeated loss and betrayal, I can fall to my knees over the slightest hint that I could lose someone that I love and I struggle with fear, just as all of us do. But I definitely have worked a lot on this and have come to see that a peaceful mind isn't a place that you get to, but a practice that you cultivate. I've changed my outer and inner life in some pretty extraordinary ways that are possible for anyone. That's the point of my posts. Our lives are ours to create.

Thanks for this... I do read your posts and assume that, whatever struggles you may have had in the past, your life these days is picture perfect and conflict free.

FWIW, when I post replies on the main boards about having struggles myself, it is just wanting to let folks know that they aren't alone. Relationships are complicated, deviating from the script we've been taught all our lives is hard, and sometimes I want to tell newbies that it's ok to struggle. Doesn't make you a failure to have questions and difficulties.

I also know a big part of my frustration with "inner peace" and "self growth" is that I'm not a conceptual or abstract thinker. Like, I couldn't begin to define either of those things, much less any steps toward them. So when I read general advice like "look inward", I get really confused. Look inward at WHAT? Does everyone else see something I'm doing wrong, and just not want to tell me?

Specific criticisms and suggestions help me a lot - whether it's "you said one thing here and another to your partner, your mixed messages aren't helping!" or just "you sound lonely, maybe go do something with your friends." But the more vague suggestions just give me a headache, and leave me wondering why everyone else "gets it" and I don't.
 
.... But the more vague suggestions just give me a headache, and leave me wondering why everyone else "gets it" and I don't.

I don't give specific suggestions because I figure that really would sound more arrogant and preposterous than I already might sound. I definitely know that our inner life is reflected in our relationships and that most of us need not anguish nearly as much as we do over others, but I could never presume to tell another person how to change her inner experience. I know what has and continues to make a world of change for me, but there are many ways to allow more well being/a peaceful heart/a quieted mind. It's not for me to say what will work for anyone else, just to point out that cultivating one's own individual serenity is truly the path to finding it with others. We have lots of great specific advice here regarding what to say and what action might be best. I merely offer a voice that takes the broader view that "problems" aren't the nuisances that most of us perceive them to be, but instead can be valuable maps to well being when we recognize the influence of our participation in all of our interactions.

I think you're a terrific person, Claire, with a lot of heart and courage. I'm always impressed with how much of your love and life you show to us and how sincerely you invite us into your world. That's a beautiful gift to us all and I know that many of us, myself included, benefit greatly by knowing you as we do through your writing.
 
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