The Best Life Yet
- Thread starter Reverie
- Start date
AutumnLeaves
New member
I am pretty big on privacy between relationships, and privacy in general. I don't want to know the sticky details of any of my partners' relationships and I sure as hell hope they aren't telling their other partners the sticky details of our relationship. Not only would hearing the details violate my meta's privacy, but I feel like they couldn't help but affect my attitude toward my meta in the future. I just don't like people hurting the people I love, you know?
From your illustrations, it sounds like we're pretty much on the same page about what level of privacy is healthy (ie, 'I'm having problems' is fine with me but 'she's doing X and it's driving me crazy' is totally not).
You absolutely have the right to whatever relationship style you are comfortable with, and you don't need to justify or defend it to anyone.
You should do what's healthy for the PEOPLE in the relationship, not to keep the SHAPE of the relationship at any cost to the people.
Sending long-distant virtual internet-friend hugs.
Reverie
Active member
All right. Work is at a good enough stopping point that I deserve a break, so I'm taking one to tell this story.
It starts with Jasper.
Because of my insane work schedule, I had to split a date with him across two days last week—a couple hours on Wednesday, and a couple hours on Thursday. He and I were falling super hard and fast for each other. That Wednesday, we had our first "get totally naked together" night (though we didn't have intercourse that night). It was fantastic. He joined the ranks of the very few people who have made me come the first time they've interacted with my parts. (There have been only three, including him.)
But on Thursday, he suddenly started to talk about heavy shit. We had a very long conversation, but the short version is that he knows he's looking for an escalator partner eventually, and he is pretty sure he's going to end stuff between us when he either meets that person or starts getting really antsy about finding them. He said he already was a little antsy about it.
I'd figured the first part already; he was 29, doesn't identify as poly, and is uncertain about what he even wants out of a relationship right now. Most girls are mono. It makes no sense for him to limit his dating pool to people who would accept that I'm already in his life. All of that was a no-brainer for me. The hard part was to hear him say he was already craving that. That made it feel like the hammer was just fixed to fall at any moment. I'd been hoping that, since he didn't know what he wanted yet, we could have whatever relationship we could have in the meantime while he figured that out. We talked about how much it was going to SUCK when it ended.
But we both decided it was worth it to us to keep dating, knowing that it is temporary. We had sex for the first time that night. I was falling harder and harder. I made time to see him in weird little pockets like for ten minutes on my way home from work. We texted dorky shit for long stretches—D&D shit and sex shit and trading old pictures and just squeeing at each other. He'd get drunk and try to lure me over to his place late, but I couldn't go.
Saturday night, he drunk texted me this: "I like you so much it hurts. I am sorry for the day that will someday come that we hurt each other."
At this point, I knew I had to write him a letter. So I did. I wrote him a letter Sunday morning, explaining exactly how much courage it took me to keep dating him. After Moss. After Jake. After Beckett. After all of these boys who seem to genuinely like me but when the chips fall, it turns out I'm just a fun stop on their way to something mono. My little poly heart is a fun distraction until they encounter the Real Thing. But somehow, I still wanted to see where things go with him.
I was feeling really bitter and really hopeful at the same time, somehow.
Rider had a BBQ to go to on Sunday, and I was to visit Oona for a couple of hours and then get some work done. Jasper said I could come over and work at his place, so I did. I did a lot of working and also a little making out. We talked about the letter and about how he, too, felt like he was just a distraction.
At first I thought, "Oh, no, of course he's not just that!" And then I remembered that, legit, the main reason I was trying to date was to distract me from Rider dating. So, maybe, in theory, or in original intention, I am guilty as charged. But, in practice, Jasper is . . . anything but just a distraction. He's a very real person that I have very real feelings for. He's got depths that I see and want to plumb. He's not just a convenient cardboard cut-out stand-in for "person to have around while Rider is on a date." He's . . . Jasper. Sweet, beautiful, geeky, funny, lovely-smelling, talented, goofy, Jasper.
And I explained that to him. I totally saw his point. And I realized that in beginning to date him, all I'd done was take my own feelings of "oh, it's shitty to feel like I have half a relationship when my partner has more than one" and shift that exact same burden over to him! What an ass I felt like!
So I started scheming ways I could give him more—make him feel like a more valid partner, not just like a part-time hobby. The first thing I thought of was to invite him to be my official boyfriend. I could TELL he was feeling Big Things about me, just as I was about him. There was no doubt in my mind about that. So I asked. And he said yes!
But then.
The next day, he was suddenly super anxious and worried. He said he changed his mind. I told him that was fine. I didn't need a label. Honestly, that whole part of it was just whatever for me. He seemed weirded out. He got real quiet on text for a couple of days and I knew something was terribly wrong. My attempt to give him more to make him feel like less of a distraction and more of a real partner had backfired. But we still had our date scheduled on his birthday. I honestly wasn't sure if he even still wanted to see me, but he did.
Instead of cooking, like we'd originally had planned, he wanted to go out. Less than a block into our walk to the restaurant, he told me he had a hard conversation to have with me. He wanted to dial back what we'd been doing. Being in a poly relationship wasn't right for him at the moment. He'd fallen in love with me, and it was too intense. He needed to step back and take a breather. He couldn't allow himself to fall so hard for me—it didn't feel healthy for him.
He worried that where our relationship seemed headed would "cock-block" him from being able to find his Real Thing. He didn't think he wanted to attend friend-group things as "a unit" all the time. He didn't think he wanted to have to explain poly to his parents. If he had a +1 to an event, he wanted the option to bring me sometimes, but to sometimes bring other people. He loved texting me all day, but it made him feel too emotionally close to me. He couldn't handle that level of closeness knowing that it was going to have to end eventually.
He was happy continuing to see me, continuing to love me, even. But he needed to pull back some in order to protect himself. I asked him what needed to change. He waffled. He said "maybe nothing" but that he knew he didn't want to get in any deeper with me. I cried a little. He held my hand tenderly. We talked about how good it felt to be together and how we'd see if we could find a level that worked for both of us. And, if we couldn't, we'd take a break from hanging out and come back to each other as platonic friends. We went back to his place after dinner and drank wine and played video games and talked more and had completely mind-blowing sex. I stayed over. We're still doing a thing, but it is a weird thing.
The next day was the pinnacle of exhaustion for me. Not just Jasper stuff, but work stuff, health stuff, weather stuff—everything was going wrong and I was so sleep deprived that I was almost hallucinating. I was a mess. Rider knew it.
I'd been chatting online with Oona, and she'd mentioned a strip club in the reference of discussing the neighborhood where Jasper lives. I told her that's funny that she mentioned it because I'd never heard of it until Rider told me that Hannah had been there recently. I told Rider it was funny that the place was so close to Jasper's house and maybe I could finally pop his (Rider's) strip-club cherry like I've been trying to to all these years.
Rider suddenly got very weird and said he felt like Hannah should have dibs on going there with him since she mentioned it to him, but that he also felt like I have dibs on the entire idea of strip clubs. He felt pulled in two directions. I could not believe that he was going to make A Thing about this on a day I was so exhausted.
In my exhaustion, I got snappish with him, pointing out that if he's going to give Hannah dibs on everything she mentions first to him, and she's FROM THIS CITY, then that's not going to leave a lot for me to do with him. But then I told him it doesn't matter that much to me. He can go there with her. It's not important. I don't care. I'm too tired to want to go back and forth on this with him. He got upset that I was rolling over instead of negotiating. He wanted to work on a compromise. I wanted just to give it to him/her rather than compromise. I was beyond apathetic about the topic. If he was feeling pulled, and that was what he was objecting to, why was it not a solution for me to just let go? Why would he rather have me fight over it than just give in?
The camel's back started to crack.
I told him if it was super important to him, we could talk about it later, but that I truly, honestly did not give one single fuck.
It starts with Jasper.
Because of my insane work schedule, I had to split a date with him across two days last week—a couple hours on Wednesday, and a couple hours on Thursday. He and I were falling super hard and fast for each other. That Wednesday, we had our first "get totally naked together" night (though we didn't have intercourse that night). It was fantastic. He joined the ranks of the very few people who have made me come the first time they've interacted with my parts. (There have been only three, including him.)
But on Thursday, he suddenly started to talk about heavy shit. We had a very long conversation, but the short version is that he knows he's looking for an escalator partner eventually, and he is pretty sure he's going to end stuff between us when he either meets that person or starts getting really antsy about finding them. He said he already was a little antsy about it.
I'd figured the first part already; he was 29, doesn't identify as poly, and is uncertain about what he even wants out of a relationship right now. Most girls are mono. It makes no sense for him to limit his dating pool to people who would accept that I'm already in his life. All of that was a no-brainer for me. The hard part was to hear him say he was already craving that. That made it feel like the hammer was just fixed to fall at any moment. I'd been hoping that, since he didn't know what he wanted yet, we could have whatever relationship we could have in the meantime while he figured that out. We talked about how much it was going to SUCK when it ended.
But we both decided it was worth it to us to keep dating, knowing that it is temporary. We had sex for the first time that night. I was falling harder and harder. I made time to see him in weird little pockets like for ten minutes on my way home from work. We texted dorky shit for long stretches—D&D shit and sex shit and trading old pictures and just squeeing at each other. He'd get drunk and try to lure me over to his place late, but I couldn't go.
Saturday night, he drunk texted me this: "I like you so much it hurts. I am sorry for the day that will someday come that we hurt each other."
At this point, I knew I had to write him a letter. So I did. I wrote him a letter Sunday morning, explaining exactly how much courage it took me to keep dating him. After Moss. After Jake. After Beckett. After all of these boys who seem to genuinely like me but when the chips fall, it turns out I'm just a fun stop on their way to something mono. My little poly heart is a fun distraction until they encounter the Real Thing. But somehow, I still wanted to see where things go with him.
I was feeling really bitter and really hopeful at the same time, somehow.
Rider had a BBQ to go to on Sunday, and I was to visit Oona for a couple of hours and then get some work done. Jasper said I could come over and work at his place, so I did. I did a lot of working and also a little making out. We talked about the letter and about how he, too, felt like he was just a distraction.
At first I thought, "Oh, no, of course he's not just that!" And then I remembered that, legit, the main reason I was trying to date was to distract me from Rider dating. So, maybe, in theory, or in original intention, I am guilty as charged. But, in practice, Jasper is . . . anything but just a distraction. He's a very real person that I have very real feelings for. He's got depths that I see and want to plumb. He's not just a convenient cardboard cut-out stand-in for "person to have around while Rider is on a date." He's . . . Jasper. Sweet, beautiful, geeky, funny, lovely-smelling, talented, goofy, Jasper.
And I explained that to him. I totally saw his point. And I realized that in beginning to date him, all I'd done was take my own feelings of "oh, it's shitty to feel like I have half a relationship when my partner has more than one" and shift that exact same burden over to him! What an ass I felt like!
So I started scheming ways I could give him more—make him feel like a more valid partner, not just like a part-time hobby. The first thing I thought of was to invite him to be my official boyfriend. I could TELL he was feeling Big Things about me, just as I was about him. There was no doubt in my mind about that. So I asked. And he said yes!
But then.
The next day, he was suddenly super anxious and worried. He said he changed his mind. I told him that was fine. I didn't need a label. Honestly, that whole part of it was just whatever for me. He seemed weirded out. He got real quiet on text for a couple of days and I knew something was terribly wrong. My attempt to give him more to make him feel like less of a distraction and more of a real partner had backfired. But we still had our date scheduled on his birthday. I honestly wasn't sure if he even still wanted to see me, but he did.
Instead of cooking, like we'd originally had planned, he wanted to go out. Less than a block into our walk to the restaurant, he told me he had a hard conversation to have with me. He wanted to dial back what we'd been doing. Being in a poly relationship wasn't right for him at the moment. He'd fallen in love with me, and it was too intense. He needed to step back and take a breather. He couldn't allow himself to fall so hard for me—it didn't feel healthy for him.
He worried that where our relationship seemed headed would "cock-block" him from being able to find his Real Thing. He didn't think he wanted to attend friend-group things as "a unit" all the time. He didn't think he wanted to have to explain poly to his parents. If he had a +1 to an event, he wanted the option to bring me sometimes, but to sometimes bring other people. He loved texting me all day, but it made him feel too emotionally close to me. He couldn't handle that level of closeness knowing that it was going to have to end eventually.
He was happy continuing to see me, continuing to love me, even. But he needed to pull back some in order to protect himself. I asked him what needed to change. He waffled. He said "maybe nothing" but that he knew he didn't want to get in any deeper with me. I cried a little. He held my hand tenderly. We talked about how good it felt to be together and how we'd see if we could find a level that worked for both of us. And, if we couldn't, we'd take a break from hanging out and come back to each other as platonic friends. We went back to his place after dinner and drank wine and played video games and talked more and had completely mind-blowing sex. I stayed over. We're still doing a thing, but it is a weird thing.
The next day was the pinnacle of exhaustion for me. Not just Jasper stuff, but work stuff, health stuff, weather stuff—everything was going wrong and I was so sleep deprived that I was almost hallucinating. I was a mess. Rider knew it.
I'd been chatting online with Oona, and she'd mentioned a strip club in the reference of discussing the neighborhood where Jasper lives. I told her that's funny that she mentioned it because I'd never heard of it until Rider told me that Hannah had been there recently. I told Rider it was funny that the place was so close to Jasper's house and maybe I could finally pop his (Rider's) strip-club cherry like I've been trying to to all these years.
Rider suddenly got very weird and said he felt like Hannah should have dibs on going there with him since she mentioned it to him, but that he also felt like I have dibs on the entire idea of strip clubs. He felt pulled in two directions. I could not believe that he was going to make A Thing about this on a day I was so exhausted.
In my exhaustion, I got snappish with him, pointing out that if he's going to give Hannah dibs on everything she mentions first to him, and she's FROM THIS CITY, then that's not going to leave a lot for me to do with him. But then I told him it doesn't matter that much to me. He can go there with her. It's not important. I don't care. I'm too tired to want to go back and forth on this with him. He got upset that I was rolling over instead of negotiating. He wanted to work on a compromise. I wanted just to give it to him/her rather than compromise. I was beyond apathetic about the topic. If he was feeling pulled, and that was what he was objecting to, why was it not a solution for me to just let go? Why would he rather have me fight over it than just give in?
The camel's back started to crack.
I told him if it was super important to him, we could talk about it later, but that I truly, honestly did not give one single fuck.
Last edited:
Reverie
Active member
Work ended. We went to band practice. We had a good time. Afterward, I was unwinding on the couch for a moment (still exhausted) when the topic of this coming Sunday came up.
The original plan had been for me to spend Saturday night (tonight) with Jasper if he wanted me to hang out at his party (he didn't) while Rider partied in a part of town an hour away with his friend Joel all night. Then Rider and I were to reconnect Sunday afternoon and have a spa day—something we've never done before but I have a Groupon that is about to expire and need to use it.
Some days before, Rider had expressed ideally wanting to see Hannah tonight if I were to be spending it with Jasper (before I knew I wasn't seeing him that night), but her flight back from vacation gets in too late, so she was asking him about Sunday. I suggested that since her part of town is close to the part where he's hanging out tonight, maybe they could get brunch together (at our favorite diner) in between his leaving Joel's and his coming to do spa day with me. It seemed an easy way for them to squeeze some time in, and I was pretty pleased with myself for suggesting it. I also thought I could offer Jasper a brunch date at the same time.
All was good until our conversation that Thursday night.
I was trying to figure out the time frame for the spa day so that I knew what time made sense to try to see if Jasper wanted to do brunch. I asked Rider what time he thought he'd be home, and he all but blew up at me, complaining about why am I asking for an end time when he hasn't seen her in a week. Dude.
a) That brunch was my idea. b) We'd already had plans on the books, he and I, when he made that plan with her. c) YES I NEED TO KNOW WHAT TIME IF I'M GOING TO PLAN MY OWN DAY AND I'M WAITING ON HIM
But I was still so tired. All I said to him was nevermind. He can have all afternoon with her if he wants and I'll go do the spa stuff myself so that my Groupon doesn't expire. I was so far beyond actually caring. He AGAIN started complaining that I'm rolling over rather than negotiating, when I was giving him what he wanted. I felt like I could not win. I couldn't get what I wanted without fighting for it, and I had no fight left in me. I was done.
The camel's back was totally fractured. I had reached the point of no return. I could not take one more iota of schedule conflict or "dibs" or anything. I could not handle one more torrid romance with someone who is doomed to shred my heart because I can't be their forever person. I could not handle going through all of this over and over.
This has been all poly has been for me: hopefulness followed by devastation; striving followed by burnout; alienation followed by stretches of uneasy peace.
I made the decision that I needed to tell Rider this definitively. I thought about it a lot. I also thought about Jasper. Suddenly, Jasper's pulling back was a boon rather than a stressor. If things end with Rider, I want to be single, not already tied up in a serious relationship with Jasper. I'm happy to keep him as a FWB or whatever, but if I'm losing the most important relationship of my life right now, I do not need to be jumping into something else serious. I'm going to be a mess for a while.
Yesterday I told Rider. I told him that the poly we've been trying is not for me. There are other, lower-key versions of openness that I do still very much want and desire. For example, I can't imagine a life without group sex as an option. I can't imagine going without same-sex experiences, nor forbidding my opposite-sex partner (also bisexual) from doing the same. I see no reason to cut things off with proven low-to-no drama casual long-distance FWBs that we both have—people who have never caused a scheduling issue or triggered weird time- or activity-related behaviors in Rider. Hell, I'd even still be cool with doing sex things with Kelly on our honeymoon, if we still get married, even though she used to be a serious source of problems for me.
But I am 100%. So. Over. Having to conduct my life in this way. Where I can't firm up times on pre-existing plans with my own partner because it might step on some other partner's toes. Where I can't just go wherever with him because it might offend the person who told him the place existed. Where I can't even choose to give in on these things or he thinks I'm being unnecessarily dismissive.
I just want, like, a regular life. Where I can suggest a thing and either he wants to do it or he doesn't but there's not all this weird third-party radio interference. And if it isn't him who can give me that life, then I want to be on my own for a while till I heal up, and then find someone who can give me that life—not a totally sexual mono life, for sure—but a mellow life. I am super intense in my work and in my caring about the world, so I need my home life to be, if possible, relatively mellow and without conflict. Otherwise I feel like I'm burning the candle with more wicks than it even has.
It's so weird: once I told him and felt the massive relief, my libido came flooding back. Suddenly I desired him again so strongly that I almost couldn't believe it. I begin to suspect that I was never just sexually dead inside due to NRE wearing off, but just long-term deeply, deeply unhappy. And now, even if tough times are ahead, I'm happy. Or at least being true to myself.
For all this time, I've been pushing through my discomfort, hoping that growth was on the other side. And in some situations, and in some ways, it was. But too often, the other side also contained the forming of callouses in places I think I'd like to remain soft. And the forming of weird reflexive pain-avoidant habits.
I won't do it in real life because it would be inappropriate, but, here in this blog, I'd really like to thank Jasper. He'll probably never realize it, but he was a catalyst for a lot of this change:
1) He provided me with another data point of "trying to date while poly just breaks my heart."
2) His brave "hard conversation" with me helped me to realize how important it is to figure your truth out and speak it, even if it dismantles something you're otherwise enjoying.
3) His discomfort with poly while being in the same situation I've been in on and off for the past three years helped me feel like my own discomfort with poly is natural and valid.
4) His comfort with a bit of openness around the edges made me realize that there are probably more people out there who share my ideal than I thought there were.
5) The very fact that I like him so much means there's hope for me finding love again eventually.
6) His unabashed adoration of me (even though he's really, really hot and amazing) boosted my confidence a bit and helped me to feel like it's not worth settling for a situation that is less than my ideal.
ALL THAT SAID . . .
I really am not going to jump into a serious relationship with Jasper if Rider and I split. He's still a mess from his abusive relationship. I'll be a newly created mess if Rider and I split. And he wants to breed and I don't. Those factors do not a successful LTR make. He's fun. We have fun together. And the time I've spent with him has been super useful.
I really, really hope things work out with Rider, though. But I'm not pushing. He needs to explore himself and figure it out. He can either have [me-as-partner + limited-open] or [me-as-friend + full poly]. I'll be good either way.
The original plan had been for me to spend Saturday night (tonight) with Jasper if he wanted me to hang out at his party (he didn't) while Rider partied in a part of town an hour away with his friend Joel all night. Then Rider and I were to reconnect Sunday afternoon and have a spa day—something we've never done before but I have a Groupon that is about to expire and need to use it.
Some days before, Rider had expressed ideally wanting to see Hannah tonight if I were to be spending it with Jasper (before I knew I wasn't seeing him that night), but her flight back from vacation gets in too late, so she was asking him about Sunday. I suggested that since her part of town is close to the part where he's hanging out tonight, maybe they could get brunch together (at our favorite diner) in between his leaving Joel's and his coming to do spa day with me. It seemed an easy way for them to squeeze some time in, and I was pretty pleased with myself for suggesting it. I also thought I could offer Jasper a brunch date at the same time.
All was good until our conversation that Thursday night.
I was trying to figure out the time frame for the spa day so that I knew what time made sense to try to see if Jasper wanted to do brunch. I asked Rider what time he thought he'd be home, and he all but blew up at me, complaining about why am I asking for an end time when he hasn't seen her in a week. Dude.
a) That brunch was my idea. b) We'd already had plans on the books, he and I, when he made that plan with her. c) YES I NEED TO KNOW WHAT TIME IF I'M GOING TO PLAN MY OWN DAY AND I'M WAITING ON HIM
But I was still so tired. All I said to him was nevermind. He can have all afternoon with her if he wants and I'll go do the spa stuff myself so that my Groupon doesn't expire. I was so far beyond actually caring. He AGAIN started complaining that I'm rolling over rather than negotiating, when I was giving him what he wanted. I felt like I could not win. I couldn't get what I wanted without fighting for it, and I had no fight left in me. I was done.
The camel's back was totally fractured. I had reached the point of no return. I could not take one more iota of schedule conflict or "dibs" or anything. I could not handle one more torrid romance with someone who is doomed to shred my heart because I can't be their forever person. I could not handle going through all of this over and over.
This has been all poly has been for me: hopefulness followed by devastation; striving followed by burnout; alienation followed by stretches of uneasy peace.
I made the decision that I needed to tell Rider this definitively. I thought about it a lot. I also thought about Jasper. Suddenly, Jasper's pulling back was a boon rather than a stressor. If things end with Rider, I want to be single, not already tied up in a serious relationship with Jasper. I'm happy to keep him as a FWB or whatever, but if I'm losing the most important relationship of my life right now, I do not need to be jumping into something else serious. I'm going to be a mess for a while.
Yesterday I told Rider. I told him that the poly we've been trying is not for me. There are other, lower-key versions of openness that I do still very much want and desire. For example, I can't imagine a life without group sex as an option. I can't imagine going without same-sex experiences, nor forbidding my opposite-sex partner (also bisexual) from doing the same. I see no reason to cut things off with proven low-to-no drama casual long-distance FWBs that we both have—people who have never caused a scheduling issue or triggered weird time- or activity-related behaviors in Rider. Hell, I'd even still be cool with doing sex things with Kelly on our honeymoon, if we still get married, even though she used to be a serious source of problems for me.
But I am 100%. So. Over. Having to conduct my life in this way. Where I can't firm up times on pre-existing plans with my own partner because it might step on some other partner's toes. Where I can't just go wherever with him because it might offend the person who told him the place existed. Where I can't even choose to give in on these things or he thinks I'm being unnecessarily dismissive.
I just want, like, a regular life. Where I can suggest a thing and either he wants to do it or he doesn't but there's not all this weird third-party radio interference. And if it isn't him who can give me that life, then I want to be on my own for a while till I heal up, and then find someone who can give me that life—not a totally sexual mono life, for sure—but a mellow life. I am super intense in my work and in my caring about the world, so I need my home life to be, if possible, relatively mellow and without conflict. Otherwise I feel like I'm burning the candle with more wicks than it even has.
It's so weird: once I told him and felt the massive relief, my libido came flooding back. Suddenly I desired him again so strongly that I almost couldn't believe it. I begin to suspect that I was never just sexually dead inside due to NRE wearing off, but just long-term deeply, deeply unhappy. And now, even if tough times are ahead, I'm happy. Or at least being true to myself.
For all this time, I've been pushing through my discomfort, hoping that growth was on the other side. And in some situations, and in some ways, it was. But too often, the other side also contained the forming of callouses in places I think I'd like to remain soft. And the forming of weird reflexive pain-avoidant habits.
I won't do it in real life because it would be inappropriate, but, here in this blog, I'd really like to thank Jasper. He'll probably never realize it, but he was a catalyst for a lot of this change:
1) He provided me with another data point of "trying to date while poly just breaks my heart."
2) His brave "hard conversation" with me helped me to realize how important it is to figure your truth out and speak it, even if it dismantles something you're otherwise enjoying.
3) His discomfort with poly while being in the same situation I've been in on and off for the past three years helped me feel like my own discomfort with poly is natural and valid.
4) His comfort with a bit of openness around the edges made me realize that there are probably more people out there who share my ideal than I thought there were.
5) The very fact that I like him so much means there's hope for me finding love again eventually.
6) His unabashed adoration of me (even though he's really, really hot and amazing) boosted my confidence a bit and helped me to feel like it's not worth settling for a situation that is less than my ideal.
ALL THAT SAID . . .
I really am not going to jump into a serious relationship with Jasper if Rider and I split. He's still a mess from his abusive relationship. I'll be a newly created mess if Rider and I split. And he wants to breed and I don't. Those factors do not a successful LTR make. He's fun. We have fun together. And the time I've spent with him has been super useful.
I really, really hope things work out with Rider, though. But I'm not pushing. He needs to explore himself and figure it out. He can either have [me-as-partner + limited-open] or [me-as-friend + full poly]. I'll be good either way.
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Reverie
Active member
Thank you for all of this. I really needed it! <3
GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
1) I had not even thought about the "partners being biased" angle in talking to them about relationship issues, but it makes complete sense. Even if they are not all "choose meeeee", they are still ... likely to prefer one outcome over another.
2) The dibs thing is beyond weird. That would drive me up the wall.
3) So much of what you wrote about just wanting a simple, easy relationship resonates with me. I frequently feel like poly gives one kind of freedom - removing the restrictions monogamy places on sex and love - but limits another kind - the freedom to conduct your romantic relationship without worrying about how it affects anyone else.
4) Truly amazed at how compassionate, thoughtful, and mature you have been in handling all of this. I hope all those around you are responding with the same level of maturity and compassion. You deserve the chance to build whatever relationship model brings you peace and happiness. We all do
2) The dibs thing is beyond weird. That would drive me up the wall.
3) So much of what you wrote about just wanting a simple, easy relationship resonates with me. I frequently feel like poly gives one kind of freedom - removing the restrictions monogamy places on sex and love - but limits another kind - the freedom to conduct your romantic relationship without worrying about how it affects anyone else.
4) Truly amazed at how compassionate, thoughtful, and mature you have been in handling all of this. I hope all those around you are responding with the same level of maturity and compassion. You deserve the chance to build whatever relationship model brings you peace and happiness. We all do
Hi Reverie,
I was where you are now a couple of months of ago, probably started with feeling that poly/open wasn't working for me around a year ago. Not exactly the same but similar. I had been feeling the problems with a poly lifestyle, asking my long term partner to try monogamy. I felt that poly wasn't working for me for a number of reasons, and many of them are similar to Jasper's and yours.
Now I am in a monogamous relationship, we may do some "open" type activities further down the line, or we may break up and do our own thing.
In a similar vein to you, I have been trying to be a "good" poly person and to make poly fit. The only person putting these expectations on me was me.
Relationship needs and wants are fluid.
It is good for you that you have a clear vision of what your wants and needs are, have expressed them to Rider.
Internet hugs ((( )))
I was where you are now a couple of months of ago, probably started with feeling that poly/open wasn't working for me around a year ago. Not exactly the same but similar. I had been feeling the problems with a poly lifestyle, asking my long term partner to try monogamy. I felt that poly wasn't working for me for a number of reasons, and many of them are similar to Jasper's and yours.
Now I am in a monogamous relationship, we may do some "open" type activities further down the line, or we may break up and do our own thing.
In a similar vein to you, I have been trying to be a "good" poly person and to make poly fit. The only person putting these expectations on me was me.
Relationship needs and wants are fluid.
It is good for you that you have a clear vision of what your wants and needs are, have expressed them to Rider.
Internet hugs ((( )))
AutumnLeaves
New member
Rider's floppy hinge issue would have worn me out by now as well. Why would he mention a strip club to you if he didn't want to go there? Because Hannah was excited about having gone there? ... Relationship bleed. Why doesn't he just say 'I don't want to go to that club, what about this other club?' Why is it not 'I already have plans,' but 'I already have plans with Hannah?' ... More relationship bleed.
Keeping fully in mind that you're stressed out and exhausted from work and other things (which tends to magnify issues), you have been here before. These are not issues for you to fix. These are his issues. And these are not the first time he's done a similar thing, nor is this the first big fight you've had about this. He has not fixed this issue, has not done work on it, and I think you are justifiably concerned about doing polyamory with him for the long-term we-are-getting-married.
I would be tired of processing this same issue over and over, too.
I'm not saying this in the sense of the 'you should totally break up with him' friend, but in the sense of maybe this is not an issue with you and polyamory in general. Maybe this is an issue with the way Rider practices polyamory not being compatible with the way you would prefer to practice polyamory.
Keeping fully in mind that you're stressed out and exhausted from work and other things (which tends to magnify issues), you have been here before. These are not issues for you to fix. These are his issues. And these are not the first time he's done a similar thing, nor is this the first big fight you've had about this. He has not fixed this issue, has not done work on it, and I think you are justifiably concerned about doing polyamory with him for the long-term we-are-getting-married.
I would be tired of processing this same issue over and over, too.
I'm not saying this in the sense of the 'you should totally break up with him' friend, but in the sense of maybe this is not an issue with you and polyamory in general. Maybe this is an issue with the way Rider practices polyamory not being compatible with the way you would prefer to practice polyamory.
Mya
Member
Thanks for taking the time to write all of that out, Reverie. It's super fascinating. It's also really great that you've found peace and clarity in what you want. I hope everything goes like I you hope it will.
When it comes to your privacy question, I think I'm a bit different than the others who have responded so far. I value openness and vulnerability over privacy. I talk about my partners with my other partners, and I'm okay with my partners talking about me to their other partners, just like they would to a friend. At the same time, I definitely agree that people need to own their parts in decision making and not just blame their partner for making them do something they don't want. Either they shouln't do it in the first place or they should present it as their own choice.
I've been on the other side of this situation fairly often. I've been the "secondary" or the more casual partner to many people who have not wanted to make our relationship deeper or more committed because of their existing relationship. But they've always presented it to me as their own choice, which I do really appreciate. I also appreciate more information and sharing of thoughts/feelings though. A while back when Jasmin was still dating a mono person (among others) she had a conversation with me about how she's considering giving this mono partner more of her time and dialing it down a bit with her other (poly) partners. She did mention that this is something the mono partner had asked for, but she also made it clear to me that ultimately it would be her own decision. Jasmin ended up breaking up with the mono partner (not just for that reason though) and continuing dating her poly partners. But when she was considering that, I was grateful that she had shared her thought process with me and that she had been honest. I was also honest and said it would make me sad if we had to dial it down because I really like her, but I would understand and that she should do what she thinks is best for her.
All this said, I'm not actually convinced that my method of 'tell everyone everything' is that good. I mean, it does increase the feeling of closeness between the people who are talking, but it can also create problems between different people later. And I've seen the consequences of that in my life, it hasn't always been pretty. So I don't know, you win some you lose some?
When it comes to your privacy question, I think I'm a bit different than the others who have responded so far. I value openness and vulnerability over privacy. I talk about my partners with my other partners, and I'm okay with my partners talking about me to their other partners, just like they would to a friend. At the same time, I definitely agree that people need to own their parts in decision making and not just blame their partner for making them do something they don't want. Either they shouln't do it in the first place or they should present it as their own choice.
I've been on the other side of this situation fairly often. I've been the "secondary" or the more casual partner to many people who have not wanted to make our relationship deeper or more committed because of their existing relationship. But they've always presented it to me as their own choice, which I do really appreciate. I also appreciate more information and sharing of thoughts/feelings though. A while back when Jasmin was still dating a mono person (among others) she had a conversation with me about how she's considering giving this mono partner more of her time and dialing it down a bit with her other (poly) partners. She did mention that this is something the mono partner had asked for, but she also made it clear to me that ultimately it would be her own decision. Jasmin ended up breaking up with the mono partner (not just for that reason though) and continuing dating her poly partners. But when she was considering that, I was grateful that she had shared her thought process with me and that she had been honest. I was also honest and said it would make me sad if we had to dial it down because I really like her, but I would understand and that she should do what she thinks is best for her.
All this said, I'm not actually convinced that my method of 'tell everyone everything' is that good. I mean, it does increase the feeling of closeness between the people who are talking, but it can also create problems between different people later. And I've seen the consequences of that in my life, it hasn't always been pretty. So I don't know, you win some you lose some?
Reverie
Active member
Thanks, everyone. I feel so supported here. It's amazing.
This, in slightly different words, is part of how I explained my feelings to Rider. I brought up how we always talk about the concept of autonomy, and that for me, right now, my autonomy means that I get to choose to be free of all of these complications. That IS freedom to me.
This, in slightly different words, is part of how I explained my feelings to Rider. I brought up how we always talk about the concept of autonomy, and that for me, right now, my autonomy means that I get to choose to be free of all of these complications. That IS freedom to me.
This caught my attention, because these are really not inherently poly issues, but Rider issues. Ok, they are somewhat poly issues, scheduling is admittedly harder and some places/activities are controversial, but you seem to have them to a great extent. I doubt the scheduling uncertainty will go away completelly with being more monogamous - unwillingness to give and keep promises is a trait of a person. (That weird dibs thing, that's just wtf. If HE prefere to do different activities with different partners, he will have to be more diplomatic about it.) I'd be pissed with all this too.
As for the privacy, I'm more of the same type as Mya - I don't want to have blocked to such a huge part of my partners life, thoughts and feelings by some weird privacy agreement. I'd be unhappy with just "I have problems" - because of the unspoken "with her, and therefore I can't tell you". I'd rather disclose my life then that (so my line with Idealist and Meta is something like "ok, I get that she hears our phone calls sometimes when I call you home, but wtf dude, tell me when she does, so that I don't start any sensitive topic!").
But he should definitelly own his decisions. If he tells someone that he's complying some demand, that's another Rider issue.
So, while I don't think these things are limitted to or even inherent to poly, I still totally understand your desire. If you can't do low drama poly, why the heck keep it up and let yourself drain. Congratulations on your decision
I think it would be nice to thank Jasper for his honesty and courage. You don't have to tell him that his attention gave you a ego boost
, but I'm sure he's like to know that you appreciate him being up-front after all.
Reverie
Active member
The reason I am pretty sure they will go away with less of a poly situation is that the reason he does them is because he is super sensitive to feeling in the middle of two partners' conflicting desires, and it makes him kind of freak out. Like, when it comes to just regular friend-scheduling things, he's so much more mellow and willing to just give a straight answer.
He would never, ever try to assert a friend's "dibs", and he never freaks out if I insist on knowing when to expect him home when he's out with buddies—only when he feels like it might artificially cut a date short. In most all of life circumstances, he's totally willing to make and keep promises to me. It's only when he gets a whiff of "other partner might not like it" that he gets dodgy. And I'm over it!
I think it would be nice to thank Jasper for his honesty and courage. You don't have to tell him that his attention gave you a ego boost
That I already did! I thanked him super-effusively for being so honest and so brave in the face of possible negative effects. He's a good one, and I wanted him to know it.
Reverie
Active member
I don't have time for a full update, but the short version is that Rider and I talked last night and he has fully agreed to my terms, with sufficient happiness and sincerity in his eyes that I don't believe that he will become resentful.
He's also agreed to knock it off with the "dibs" stuff and being weird about schedule times, since we are continuing to casually see our other partners until such time as those connections peter out or no longer make sense to us.
I told him go do his thing with Hannah—just don't let it interfere with MY life and OUR plans, and I don't care. And when that is over, we'll do it as I described.
He really seems satisfied. He said I'm still "perfect for him" even though my needs have changed. He said he might feel differently if he were younger or if we were still in Florida where he had lots of local active crushes, but at this point in our lives, it makes sense to him that I’d want something more stable and mellow, and he really can’t picture a life without me in it where he’d be happier than he would be in the situation that I described, since it is still not true sexual monogamy.
And I feel happy and relieved enough that I am moving forward again with the wedding plans. I feel like I just rolled a giant boulder out of my path that had been threatening to crush me.
He's also agreed to knock it off with the "dibs" stuff and being weird about schedule times, since we are continuing to casually see our other partners until such time as those connections peter out or no longer make sense to us.
I told him go do his thing with Hannah—just don't let it interfere with MY life and OUR plans, and I don't care. And when that is over, we'll do it as I described.
He really seems satisfied. He said I'm still "perfect for him" even though my needs have changed. He said he might feel differently if he were younger or if we were still in Florida where he had lots of local active crushes, but at this point in our lives, it makes sense to him that I’d want something more stable and mellow, and he really can’t picture a life without me in it where he’d be happier than he would be in the situation that I described, since it is still not true sexual monogamy.
And I feel happy and relieved enough that I am moving forward again with the wedding plans. I feel like I just rolled a giant boulder out of my path that had been threatening to crush me.
starlight1
Active member
Hey Reverie, I just wanted to chime in saying i'm really happy for you and Rider that you two managed to come to an arrangement that works for you both so well I am really happy for you both (plus any light other people).
I am really happy for you both (plus any light other people).
PinkPig
Well-known member
Is it appropriate to say congratulations? I am glad that things are working out the way that you wanted. I relate to many of the reasons you posted for wishing to change the dynamics. Many of the issues you and Rider had, Blue & I had. It is wearing. I'm happy for you that things are working out
AutumnLeaves
New member
Also happy to hear that things are working out!
Reverie
Active member
Thanks for everyone's congrats and well wishes! Things are working out really well so far. Rider has repeatedly announced without any prompting how happy he is that we got everything figured out, so I feel really good about stuff—especially since everything I offered was stuff I didn't have even one bad twinge about. That seems like a good sign.
The only poly-related bone of contention in our household right now is that I'm being mouthily judgy about Rider's laziness regarding the Women's March on Saturday, which he is blaming on his overnight with Hannah.
Friday night we have date nights with the others, and Jasper and I are waking up super early to go march downtown at 9:00 (and it was even Jasper's suggestion to do so—though I was already planning on going and just hadn't brought it up yet). We're meeting up with some of my more political friends, as well as some of Rider's, and maybe some of Jasper's too. Rider, on the other hand, is saying that he doubts he can make it that early, since he'll probably be up late with Hannah. He said, "I'll see how I feel after about brunch time—maybe I can meet you guys down there if stuff is still going on." Lazy, lazy, lazy!
I dunno, protesting the most awful political climate and the most poisonous public figure in my lifetime seems WAY more important to me than a couple of extra hours for sleep and sex, for fuck's sake. Sometimes I do not understand Rider at all! </rant>
ETA: I should also take a moment to toot Jasper's horn on this topic. His political mobilization is hella sexy. He drove to a different state to campaign for Hillary last year. Drove to a different state. And suggested protesting during our date this weekend. Swoon!
Edited again to add more: Yay, Rider finally saw the importance!
The only poly-related bone of contention in our household right now is that I'm being mouthily judgy about Rider's laziness regarding the Women's March on Saturday, which he is blaming on his overnight with Hannah.
Friday night we have date nights with the others, and Jasper and I are waking up super early to go march downtown at 9:00 (and it was even Jasper's suggestion to do so—though I was already planning on going and just hadn't brought it up yet). We're meeting up with some of my more political friends, as well as some of Rider's, and maybe some of Jasper's too. Rider, on the other hand, is saying that he doubts he can make it that early, since he'll probably be up late with Hannah. He said, "I'll see how I feel after about brunch time—maybe I can meet you guys down there if stuff is still going on." Lazy, lazy, lazy!
I dunno, protesting the most awful political climate and the most poisonous public figure in my lifetime seems WAY more important to me than a couple of extra hours for sleep and sex, for fuck's sake. Sometimes I do not understand Rider at all! </rant>
ETA: I should also take a moment to toot Jasper's horn on this topic. His political mobilization is hella sexy. He drove to a different state to campaign for Hillary last year. Drove to a different state. And suggested protesting during our date this weekend. Swoon!
Edited again to add more: Yay, Rider finally saw the importance!
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Reverie
Active member
I am really happy right now. I'm settling in to work for the rest of the evening (stupid deadlines!) but I feel so much better in my personal life than I have in what feels like eons—longer than I can even say.
Rider is out doing social stuff with acquaintances from work and just texted me to tell me how much he loves me. I'm so proud of him for so many reasons right now, including rethinking the political stuff and how he's handling our relationship right now. He's going to see a concert spur of the moment tonight after he leaves the bar he's currently at, as well. It all sounds super fun and I'm glad he found stuff to do while I'm boring and working.
I was originally supposed to work over at Jasper's today, but he remembered only yesterday that there's an industry event he's supposed to go network at, so he had to cancel on me. He did make time to see me for about an hour beforehand, though, and we had freaking fantastic sex and cuddles. The goodbye kiss he sent me out the door with quakes my bones to remember. Our chemistry is absurd.
Talking about the protest online made me feel really connected to some of my friends and even acquaintances. If there is one good thing coming out of all of this bullshit raining down on our country, it's a sense of solidarity and just heart-glowing LOVE for so many people.
Hannah chimed in on my thread with some additional info about places to call and other ways to participate politically. Finally I feel like I have a metamour with whom I have some common ground (even if I do think our communication styles are still not the best fit for "good friends").
I talked with Rider about getting a bit more time with Jasper each week once my big project is over. There's so much stuff that Jasper and I want to do—friend stuff like play video games and D&D in addition to makeout stuff—that I don't think one night will cut it. Since Jasper and I are looking at making a long-term friendship out of our connection when he finds someone to seriously date, we want have at least some friend-type hangout time where we are not glued to each other's faces. I think if we got only one night per week, we'd spend pretty much the whole time having sex.
Rider said he didn't mind. He said he wouldn't want to stack dates with Hannah that often because she lives an hour away, but he's been meaning to build his other social connections more anyway, so he'll use that time for that.
I also really am feeling like I got through to him about the weird dibs and schedule tension stuff. And, it's funny, feeling like I got through to him has made me also care less. Like before I felt like THIS IS RUINING MY LIFE and now I'm just kind of like, shrug, even if he fucks up, it won't be my problem for much longer, so it's not the end of the world.
OK, back to work for me...
Rider is out doing social stuff with acquaintances from work and just texted me to tell me how much he loves me. I'm so proud of him for so many reasons right now, including rethinking the political stuff and how he's handling our relationship right now. He's going to see a concert spur of the moment tonight after he leaves the bar he's currently at, as well. It all sounds super fun and I'm glad he found stuff to do while I'm boring and working.
I was originally supposed to work over at Jasper's today, but he remembered only yesterday that there's an industry event he's supposed to go network at, so he had to cancel on me. He did make time to see me for about an hour beforehand, though, and we had freaking fantastic sex and cuddles. The goodbye kiss he sent me out the door with quakes my bones to remember. Our chemistry is absurd.
Talking about the protest online made me feel really connected to some of my friends and even acquaintances. If there is one good thing coming out of all of this bullshit raining down on our country, it's a sense of solidarity and just heart-glowing LOVE for so many people.
Hannah chimed in on my thread with some additional info about places to call and other ways to participate politically. Finally I feel like I have a metamour with whom I have some common ground (even if I do think our communication styles are still not the best fit for "good friends").
I talked with Rider about getting a bit more time with Jasper each week once my big project is over. There's so much stuff that Jasper and I want to do—friend stuff like play video games and D&D in addition to makeout stuff—that I don't think one night will cut it. Since Jasper and I are looking at making a long-term friendship out of our connection when he finds someone to seriously date, we want have at least some friend-type hangout time where we are not glued to each other's faces. I think if we got only one night per week, we'd spend pretty much the whole time having sex.
Rider said he didn't mind. He said he wouldn't want to stack dates with Hannah that often because she lives an hour away, but he's been meaning to build his other social connections more anyway, so he'll use that time for that.
I also really am feeling like I got through to him about the weird dibs and schedule tension stuff. And, it's funny, feeling like I got through to him has made me also care less. Like before I felt like THIS IS RUINING MY LIFE and now I'm just kind of like, shrug, even if he fucks up, it won't be my problem for much longer, so it's not the end of the world.
OK, back to work for me...