The Best Life Yet
- Thread starter Reverie
- Start date
Reverie
Active member
So our agreement a few weeks ago was that we'd phase out of poly when our situations with Jasper and Hannah came to some kind of natural-ish ending—basically letting them know at these early dating stages that things weren't on course to a long-term polyship and giving them the option to make their own choices about whether they wanted something more casual and temporary: FWB or a fling, if you will.
For my Jasper situation, that's what he wants right now anyway (in fact, *I* am the one who is less comfortable with super-casual) so I was waiting to bring it up until it looked like it'd be an issue—no sense beating the dead horse if he's already told me that's what HE wants.
For Rider's Hannah situation, he honestly didn't know how she was leaning, so they had a talk today and decided to transition to platonic for now—no hard feelings on either side and she said she'd be happy to keep hanging out as friends and be open to dating him again if it looked like that would be a possible thing. She's not really interested in casual sex partners. They're hanging out platonically tomorrow and he was so happy and relieved that it went well.
But then, coincidentally, just a few moments after they wrapped their talk up, Jasper started texting me, and we had our own talk about WTF we want to do. He's happy with the increased amount of distance and space and is picturing a thing where we're loosely friends but hook up every once in a while.
And . . . I dunno. I don't know if that's something I can actually DO well. I'm fine with "FWB" in the sense of no commitments, no assumed priority, no relationship labels, no escalator. But no maintenance of an emotional connection in between hangouts . . . that doesn't really sound like my bag. I'm willing to give it a try for a few weeks and see if it shreds me or not, but I'm not very optimistic. I want the "F" in "FWB" to be just as strong as the "B" if I'm gonna be in that situation. I want emotional intimacy as well, if I'm going to share my body with someone.
He told me he's uncomfortable with how much space I take up in his mind, and that forcing that distance between us this past week has been very helpful for him. When I like someone, I live for those little flirtatious texts and indicators that the person is thinking of me as much as I am of them. Without ongoing signs of interest, sex becomes way less appealing to me. If he's actively trying not to think of me, pretty sure the "B" will fade out of the "FWB" pretty fast on my end. And yet. He still tells me he loves me and still says he misses me when we do talk.
Oona is encouraging me just to squeeze every last drop of goodness out of it. She's always thought I was too prudish about casual sex and sees this as an opportunity to grow in a different direction—maybe opening up some other avenue of sexual adventure for me and Rider that isn't quite as involved as poly. Again, I dunno. For me, sex has always mainly been about connection, and if the partner is trying to actively stifle that connection, I kinda don't see the point.
Rider, on the other hand, briefly tried to convince me to just shut it down. He was bummed that Hannah chose the ending-it path at the same time as Jasper suddenly chose the see-what-can-work path. He actually said to me, "Oh, this is what the imbalance feels like. I get it now." After like an hour. After not understanding what I was making a fuss about for three years.
He quickly recognized that he was being "a jerk" (his own words) and apologized. We had both agreed that our partners at the time would be "grandfathered in" and it had certainly been fine by him when it looked like it was going to be his and not mine that lingered. What is sauce for the goose, dude . . .
But in that same vein of fairness, I told him that if it turns out the Jasper thing stretches on (as we had foreseen that it might!), and he is really feeling envious and wants to go out and have some casual sex, he's welcome to. I just don't need the complication of new metamours or dating or guaranteed time, etc., at this point in my life.
For my Jasper situation, that's what he wants right now anyway (in fact, *I* am the one who is less comfortable with super-casual) so I was waiting to bring it up until it looked like it'd be an issue—no sense beating the dead horse if he's already told me that's what HE wants.
For Rider's Hannah situation, he honestly didn't know how she was leaning, so they had a talk today and decided to transition to platonic for now—no hard feelings on either side and she said she'd be happy to keep hanging out as friends and be open to dating him again if it looked like that would be a possible thing. She's not really interested in casual sex partners. They're hanging out platonically tomorrow and he was so happy and relieved that it went well.
But then, coincidentally, just a few moments after they wrapped their talk up, Jasper started texting me, and we had our own talk about WTF we want to do. He's happy with the increased amount of distance and space and is picturing a thing where we're loosely friends but hook up every once in a while.
And . . . I dunno. I don't know if that's something I can actually DO well. I'm fine with "FWB" in the sense of no commitments, no assumed priority, no relationship labels, no escalator. But no maintenance of an emotional connection in between hangouts . . . that doesn't really sound like my bag. I'm willing to give it a try for a few weeks and see if it shreds me or not, but I'm not very optimistic. I want the "F" in "FWB" to be just as strong as the "B" if I'm gonna be in that situation. I want emotional intimacy as well, if I'm going to share my body with someone.
He told me he's uncomfortable with how much space I take up in his mind, and that forcing that distance between us this past week has been very helpful for him. When I like someone, I live for those little flirtatious texts and indicators that the person is thinking of me as much as I am of them. Without ongoing signs of interest, sex becomes way less appealing to me. If he's actively trying not to think of me, pretty sure the "B" will fade out of the "FWB" pretty fast on my end. And yet. He still tells me he loves me and still says he misses me when we do talk.
Oona is encouraging me just to squeeze every last drop of goodness out of it. She's always thought I was too prudish about casual sex and sees this as an opportunity to grow in a different direction—maybe opening up some other avenue of sexual adventure for me and Rider that isn't quite as involved as poly. Again, I dunno. For me, sex has always mainly been about connection, and if the partner is trying to actively stifle that connection, I kinda don't see the point.
Rider, on the other hand, briefly tried to convince me to just shut it down. He was bummed that Hannah chose the ending-it path at the same time as Jasper suddenly chose the see-what-can-work path. He actually said to me, "Oh, this is what the imbalance feels like. I get it now." After like an hour. After not understanding what I was making a fuss about for three years.
He quickly recognized that he was being "a jerk" (his own words) and apologized. We had both agreed that our partners at the time would be "grandfathered in" and it had certainly been fine by him when it looked like it was going to be his and not mine that lingered. What is sauce for the goose, dude . . .
But in that same vein of fairness, I told him that if it turns out the Jasper thing stretches on (as we had foreseen that it might!), and he is really feeling envious and wants to go out and have some casual sex, he's welcome to. I just don't need the complication of new metamours or dating or guaranteed time, etc., at this point in my life.
I totally get what you mean about imbalance. I've come to realize that's a big factor in my insecurity and difficulties about my boyfriend's other relationships and relationship-prospects. He has lots of friends, a couple-few other partners, and a few potentials... and I have him, and Hubby when Hubby remembers to come up out of the basement.
So when my boyfriend is out with someone else, I'm sitting at legal-home alone--even if Hubby is home, because Hubby isn't interacting with me--and that leaves me feeling abandoned and like I'm some crappy thing that no one wants to spend time with. I try online dating and no one is interested except creepy guys who send me porn links...and I don't have any venues for meeting people through other means.
It took me until just a month or two ago to figure that out. Now that I'm aware, I've talked to my boyfriend about it, and he's trying to help change the situation because he understands that it's a lot easier for me to meet people through him than on my own, and I feel a lot *safer* meeting potential-people-to-date through him. In my case, balance is probably never going to be a thing, but I feel better with him aware that I feel like having more people in my life will make it easier for me.
So when my boyfriend is out with someone else, I'm sitting at legal-home alone--even if Hubby is home, because Hubby isn't interacting with me--and that leaves me feeling abandoned and like I'm some crappy thing that no one wants to spend time with. I try online dating and no one is interested except creepy guys who send me porn links...and I don't have any venues for meeting people through other means.
It took me until just a month or two ago to figure that out. Now that I'm aware, I've talked to my boyfriend about it, and he's trying to help change the situation because he understands that it's a lot easier for me to meet people through him than on my own, and I feel a lot *safer* meeting potential-people-to-date through him. In my case, balance is probably never going to be a thing, but I feel better with him aware that I feel like having more people in my life will make it easier for me.
Reverie
Active member
I lurk a little around here sometimes, reading some blogs, but haven't felt compelled to update much because not much had changed. Stuff is still going crazy at work and in the world. But some things in my personal life deserve an update.
I briefly saw Jasper last week and . . . that time did not go well. He rushed too fast for me into being physical after all that distance and I ended up feeling kind of used even though we didn't actually have any kind of penetrative sex.
I wrote him a long (LONG) letter explaining that if we were just to be acquaintances and maintain the same level of emotional distance, then I couldn't do physical things with him anymore. But if he wants to be my actual friend, then we can see where the physical stuff settles, comfort-wise.
He was game and agreed to see me without any physical expectation, only talking and hanging out, yesterday.
I went over there and we went out for a beer and a chat on more neutral territory than his apartment. We talked about the letters we'd written back and forth, and about his suddenly taking a "break" and how I felt about that, and about how I felt after having gone to see him last week.
And he'd explained that sometimes his not being in touch is just going through introverted/depressed phases where he might not want to hang out or might not write back a lot, and I told him those are of course fine. The hard part for me is if the distance is either abrupt or artificial (as in like he's pulling back on purpose and not just feeling antisocial) which this last time was both.
He said that he'd just realized that despite what we'd said to each other about just being FWB back, like, his bday week, he'd been feeling like we really were slipping into relationship mode, so he had to pull back hard and also temporarily just to make a break in time there so things could feel different to him.
He apologized and also thanked me for putting up with that. And he said he really did intend to be my real friend, and the benefits would also be nice but not necessary—he understands if I can't do things that way. And I explained to him that the real friendship was what was important to me. It's more quality over quantity. I don't have to talk to him every day but I do want to feel like the "him" that I'm getting when I do talk to him is, like, him with his guard down letting me get to know the real person. I don't have room in my life for people who don't want to let me past the sea wall. And he said that made sense to him.
I also told him that a real "relationship" actually isn't even on the table anymore due to changes in my relationship with Rider. It's friends with benefits, platonic friends, or nothing. So if he had any residual fear that I was trying to cage him into a relationship, it was completely unfounded. I think that relaxed him a bit, actually.
Then we just chatted a while about other things and I started to feel totally normal around him again. I think we both did. So a beer out turned into a beer at his place which turned into making out which turned into sex . . . all of which I felt fine and good about.
And then we tried to get dressed and only got like a single article of clothing back on before we were all over each other and back in the bed again, haha. And then after that we watched an episode of Star Trek and he fell asleep on me and then I went home.
Definitely all the distance those couple of weeks totally squished that "super NRE" feeling that I had. And our agreement to just be friends also is actively squishing it, because a lot of my NRE is always tied into my wild, pie-in-the-sky, planning for the future thing, and, well, the romantic side of things for us doesn't have a future.
I feel very caring about him and very attracted to him still, but that feeling of being like super excited to get a text from someone, etc. is all gone. Which is good. It allows this thing to fit in the box that it has available to it.
What was unexpected to me is that Rider had a minor freakout when I got home. He'd sent me off to meet Jasper telling me he hopes things go well and that we figure things out, but then when I got back and told him about it, he started sulking and pouting and saying that he can't wait till it's just the two of us. This from someone who was just fine with the idea of things going on with Hannah indefinitely on a FWB level (if she had been). But the minute it is I who has that and he doesn't, he turned grumpy! I think he thought stuff was going to end last night instead of work out, and he was disappointed.
We're fine now—he's over it and, I think, realizes his hypocrisy. It's weird, though, it was like pulling teeth to get him to admit that the sex was the problem! He said he wouldn't have any problem if I were hanging out with him platonically, but yet was still saying it wasn't the sex that was making him sulk. But the sex is the only difference!
He was so loath to admit it, because he's Mr. Sex Is Just Sex and has always said that it makes no difference to him what I do with my body as long as I'm taking safety precautions. I know he knows I’m not going to run off with this guy. He’s just jealous! And doesn’t want to admit it.
I explained to him what I just wrote here: that all the NRE stuff is gone and it really is just a friend thing: no future plans, no commitments, no expectations, no NRE, no life-building. Just FWB until such time when it makes sense to end it, and then it'll just be him and me.
I also again explained to him that if it makes him feel better about things, he has my total blessing to go out and find a fuckbuddy or hookups until the Jasper situation is over of its own accord—I'm not in the business of "making" him be sexually monogamous when I am not being so myself, and I know that it sucks for him that Hannah bailed, but he balked at that suggestion too. So pouty!
It would be wicked unfair for him to ask me to cut things off with Jasper in the name our our "stopping poly," and he knows that, so he's not. But still, I really wish he would have warned me before I went to see Jasper and worked so hard to get to a good place, instead of telling me he hopes I can work it out and then the truth coming out afterward. I might have gone into that conversation with Jasper with an entirely different mindset.
I brought Rider's mood around with some kinky sex before bed even though it was almost 2:00 after all the processing. (Yes, sex-act #3 for me within the space of a few hours—whew, more than I am used to!) He seems 100% better today, thankfully, so I am happy. I guess I just have to wait and see what happens next time I see Jasper. Currently there is nothing scheduled, but we have both said we want to hang out again at some point.
And that is where things currently are for me. Teetering one FWB away from monogamy, and still sick to death of processing but still doing it for the sake of the people I care about. And happy, overall, actually. Warily happy, maybe, but happy.
I briefly saw Jasper last week and . . . that time did not go well. He rushed too fast for me into being physical after all that distance and I ended up feeling kind of used even though we didn't actually have any kind of penetrative sex.
I wrote him a long (LONG) letter explaining that if we were just to be acquaintances and maintain the same level of emotional distance, then I couldn't do physical things with him anymore. But if he wants to be my actual friend, then we can see where the physical stuff settles, comfort-wise.
He was game and agreed to see me without any physical expectation, only talking and hanging out, yesterday.
I went over there and we went out for a beer and a chat on more neutral territory than his apartment. We talked about the letters we'd written back and forth, and about his suddenly taking a "break" and how I felt about that, and about how I felt after having gone to see him last week.
And he'd explained that sometimes his not being in touch is just going through introverted/depressed phases where he might not want to hang out or might not write back a lot, and I told him those are of course fine. The hard part for me is if the distance is either abrupt or artificial (as in like he's pulling back on purpose and not just feeling antisocial) which this last time was both.
He said that he'd just realized that despite what we'd said to each other about just being FWB back, like, his bday week, he'd been feeling like we really were slipping into relationship mode, so he had to pull back hard and also temporarily just to make a break in time there so things could feel different to him.
He apologized and also thanked me for putting up with that. And he said he really did intend to be my real friend, and the benefits would also be nice but not necessary—he understands if I can't do things that way. And I explained to him that the real friendship was what was important to me. It's more quality over quantity. I don't have to talk to him every day but I do want to feel like the "him" that I'm getting when I do talk to him is, like, him with his guard down letting me get to know the real person. I don't have room in my life for people who don't want to let me past the sea wall. And he said that made sense to him.
I also told him that a real "relationship" actually isn't even on the table anymore due to changes in my relationship with Rider. It's friends with benefits, platonic friends, or nothing. So if he had any residual fear that I was trying to cage him into a relationship, it was completely unfounded. I think that relaxed him a bit, actually.
Then we just chatted a while about other things and I started to feel totally normal around him again. I think we both did. So a beer out turned into a beer at his place which turned into making out which turned into sex . . . all of which I felt fine and good about.
And then we tried to get dressed and only got like a single article of clothing back on before we were all over each other and back in the bed again, haha. And then after that we watched an episode of Star Trek and he fell asleep on me and then I went home.
Definitely all the distance those couple of weeks totally squished that "super NRE" feeling that I had. And our agreement to just be friends also is actively squishing it, because a lot of my NRE is always tied into my wild, pie-in-the-sky, planning for the future thing, and, well, the romantic side of things for us doesn't have a future.
I feel very caring about him and very attracted to him still, but that feeling of being like super excited to get a text from someone, etc. is all gone. Which is good. It allows this thing to fit in the box that it has available to it.
What was unexpected to me is that Rider had a minor freakout when I got home. He'd sent me off to meet Jasper telling me he hopes things go well and that we figure things out, but then when I got back and told him about it, he started sulking and pouting and saying that he can't wait till it's just the two of us. This from someone who was just fine with the idea of things going on with Hannah indefinitely on a FWB level (if she had been). But the minute it is I who has that and he doesn't, he turned grumpy! I think he thought stuff was going to end last night instead of work out, and he was disappointed.
We're fine now—he's over it and, I think, realizes his hypocrisy. It's weird, though, it was like pulling teeth to get him to admit that the sex was the problem! He said he wouldn't have any problem if I were hanging out with him platonically, but yet was still saying it wasn't the sex that was making him sulk. But the sex is the only difference!
He was so loath to admit it, because he's Mr. Sex Is Just Sex and has always said that it makes no difference to him what I do with my body as long as I'm taking safety precautions. I know he knows I’m not going to run off with this guy. He’s just jealous! And doesn’t want to admit it.
I explained to him what I just wrote here: that all the NRE stuff is gone and it really is just a friend thing: no future plans, no commitments, no expectations, no NRE, no life-building. Just FWB until such time when it makes sense to end it, and then it'll just be him and me.
I also again explained to him that if it makes him feel better about things, he has my total blessing to go out and find a fuckbuddy or hookups until the Jasper situation is over of its own accord—I'm not in the business of "making" him be sexually monogamous when I am not being so myself, and I know that it sucks for him that Hannah bailed, but he balked at that suggestion too. So pouty!
It would be wicked unfair for him to ask me to cut things off with Jasper in the name our our "stopping poly," and he knows that, so he's not. But still, I really wish he would have warned me before I went to see Jasper and worked so hard to get to a good place, instead of telling me he hopes I can work it out and then the truth coming out afterward. I might have gone into that conversation with Jasper with an entirely different mindset.
I brought Rider's mood around with some kinky sex before bed even though it was almost 2:00 after all the processing. (Yes, sex-act #3 for me within the space of a few hours—whew, more than I am used to!) He seems 100% better today, thankfully, so I am happy. I guess I just have to wait and see what happens next time I see Jasper. Currently there is nothing scheduled, but we have both said we want to hang out again at some point.
And that is where things currently are for me. Teetering one FWB away from monogamy, and still sick to death of processing but still doing it for the sake of the people I care about. And happy, overall, actually. Warily happy, maybe, but happy.
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Reverie
Active member
Happy V-Day, y'all! Things have been pretty good in Reverland, if busy.
My work project just wrapped up so I actually got a full night of sleep last night. I'm about to get paid for 128 hours of extra work, which should put a considerable dent in my ever-present money issues. Also I am asking for a raise in a couple weeks, once this cool idea I came up with at work has time to bear fruit.
Rider and I bought all our plane tickets for our European honeymoon and did our passport stuff and are hashing out other details for wedding things. Less than eight weeks to go—eeeeeee! Moss is going to watch our animals for us because he's sweet like that.
Rider and I have been really good—good sex life, good rapport, and almost an NRE-level happiness. I look at him and my heart explodes. I'm so happy he's my Person. I was listening to a back episode of Savage Lovecast and Dan said something along the lines of "attention [directed at partner] from others sometimes helps us to see what we saw in our partner in the first place" and I thought to myself, "dude, I totally already know what I saw in this guy in the first place!" He's so sexy and sweet and affectionate and funny and talented—I'm the luckiest girl in the world!
This weekend, Rider and I are going to Vegas to see his favorite band. We're meeting up with a bunch of his fanclub buddies there and crashing at Joel and Carrie's condo. (Joel is a pilot and has to keep two places because he often flies out of here or there.)
Things with Jasper are also fantastic. Who knew I could take to this FWB stuff like a duck to water?! It's like a "relationship" without the killer NRE or commitment. Or like an "activity friend" where one of the activities just happens to be sex. And, oh, what sex! It just keeps getting better. Last night he gave me what I think was the best oral of my life. He is either insanely talented in bed, or we have killer chemistry, or both. I'm thinking probably both because he said he thinks the same thing.
We had a super chill night last night where we had sex, then got noodles, then drank wine and started a new series on Netflix, then played with his cat, then had sex again. And then I went home.
There were a couple of moments in there that were super emotional and touching, like he was telling me while we were cuddling that he'd been struggling with depression and he cried a little and held on to me super tight. Then afterward, he thanked me and said he has such a hard time trusting people after his abusive ex, but that he feels safe with me and I always do the right thing to make him feel comfortable. I'm glad he feels safe with me and I hope that being able to feel close to someone for the first time since his bad situation is helping to heal him some.
Rider still doesn't want to find a FWB at the moment, even though things are stabilizing between Jasper and me. He said he may want to in the future but he'll deal with that after the wedding. We've talked about maybe using the group hookup app Feeld to try to find threesome partners (male or female) that could potentially be people who end up in that category for him. That could be fun. We'll see where we can fit that in around my politics stuff and our band stuff.
Speaking of which, the political activism has also been going pretty well. I attended another postcard mailing thing this past Saturday while waiting for some work to be turned around. I should have even more time for that stuff with this project now over.
The band is also going well. Our new drummer is getting into the groove of things, and we're talking about doing a house-party show at Perry's in a few weeks—it's not solid yet, but it's a possibility.
So, my personal life is pretty all right at the moment. If only I could say the same about the outside world . . .
My work project just wrapped up so I actually got a full night of sleep last night. I'm about to get paid for 128 hours of extra work, which should put a considerable dent in my ever-present money issues. Also I am asking for a raise in a couple weeks, once this cool idea I came up with at work has time to bear fruit.
Rider and I bought all our plane tickets for our European honeymoon and did our passport stuff and are hashing out other details for wedding things. Less than eight weeks to go—eeeeeee! Moss is going to watch our animals for us because he's sweet like that.
Rider and I have been really good—good sex life, good rapport, and almost an NRE-level happiness. I look at him and my heart explodes. I'm so happy he's my Person. I was listening to a back episode of Savage Lovecast and Dan said something along the lines of "attention [directed at partner] from others sometimes helps us to see what we saw in our partner in the first place" and I thought to myself, "dude, I totally already know what I saw in this guy in the first place!" He's so sexy and sweet and affectionate and funny and talented—I'm the luckiest girl in the world!
This weekend, Rider and I are going to Vegas to see his favorite band. We're meeting up with a bunch of his fanclub buddies there and crashing at Joel and Carrie's condo. (Joel is a pilot and has to keep two places because he often flies out of here or there.)
Things with Jasper are also fantastic. Who knew I could take to this FWB stuff like a duck to water?! It's like a "relationship" without the killer NRE or commitment. Or like an "activity friend" where one of the activities just happens to be sex. And, oh, what sex! It just keeps getting better. Last night he gave me what I think was the best oral of my life. He is either insanely talented in bed, or we have killer chemistry, or both. I'm thinking probably both because he said he thinks the same thing.
We had a super chill night last night where we had sex, then got noodles, then drank wine and started a new series on Netflix, then played with his cat, then had sex again. And then I went home.
There were a couple of moments in there that were super emotional and touching, like he was telling me while we were cuddling that he'd been struggling with depression and he cried a little and held on to me super tight. Then afterward, he thanked me and said he has such a hard time trusting people after his abusive ex, but that he feels safe with me and I always do the right thing to make him feel comfortable. I'm glad he feels safe with me and I hope that being able to feel close to someone for the first time since his bad situation is helping to heal him some.
Rider still doesn't want to find a FWB at the moment, even though things are stabilizing between Jasper and me. He said he may want to in the future but he'll deal with that after the wedding. We've talked about maybe using the group hookup app Feeld to try to find threesome partners (male or female) that could potentially be people who end up in that category for him. That could be fun. We'll see where we can fit that in around my politics stuff and our band stuff.
Speaking of which, the political activism has also been going pretty well. I attended another postcard mailing thing this past Saturday while waiting for some work to be turned around. I should have even more time for that stuff with this project now over.
The band is also going well. Our new drummer is getting into the groove of things, and we're talking about doing a house-party show at Perry's in a few weeks—it's not solid yet, but it's a possibility.
So, my personal life is pretty all right at the moment. If only I could say the same about the outside world . . .
Reverie
Active member
Oh, hi, ovulation time, making a liar out of me about the NRE.
I know it’s just hormones. The reason I know it’s hormones is that it’s totally unrelated to anything in real life. Jasper hasn’t said anything or done anything in the past 24ish hours that would ramp up the NRE or the desire. It’s just the green "ovulation week" spaces on the period calendar, and that’s it. It’s super annoying, though, how it’s like “genetically diversify your offspring—go fuck the new person a bunch and get a baby!"
I see you, biology, you sneaky bitch. THERE WILL BE NO BABIES!
I feel a little bad though, because I’ve been saying to Rider for weeks now that the NRE part of the equation is gone. And I haven’t been lying—the “constant” part of it IS gone. I guess I just didn’t realize there’d be a few days where biology would fire it back up again. Stupid womanhood. Stupid hormones driving me to distraction and obsession again. Stupid trip to Vegas stopping me from being able to satisfy said obsession.
I know it’s just hormones. The reason I know it’s hormones is that it’s totally unrelated to anything in real life. Jasper hasn’t said anything or done anything in the past 24ish hours that would ramp up the NRE or the desire. It’s just the green "ovulation week" spaces on the period calendar, and that’s it. It’s super annoying, though, how it’s like “genetically diversify your offspring—go fuck the new person a bunch and get a baby!"
I see you, biology, you sneaky bitch. THERE WILL BE NO BABIES!
I feel a little bad though, because I’ve been saying to Rider for weeks now that the NRE part of the equation is gone. And I haven’t been lying—the “constant” part of it IS gone. I guess I just didn’t realize there’d be a few days where biology would fire it back up again. Stupid womanhood. Stupid hormones driving me to distraction and obsession again. Stupid trip to Vegas stopping me from being able to satisfy said obsession.
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Reverie
Active member
Today I am here to talk about a very, er, sticky subject: fluid bonding. Specifically with Jasper.
So, I am the only person Jasper has had sex with in a while. He was tested in December in order to be with me, and it had been long enough before that that if there were any HIV risk, it would have shown up then.
We have been having sex now for about two months, and during that time, I have noticed that the way that his body works and the way that our sex works together makes condoms inconvenient. Basically, he is super excitable and comes really fast from extended penetration. At least the first time. So we usually get around that by doing a bunch of other stuff for a long time first, making sure I get off, and then we have a few moments of penetration with a lot of pausing.
Once the condom is on, then, really, fucking is the only thing left to do. Maybe not everyone feels this way, but for me, it's weird to try to use my hands or mouth over a condom. Right now, what we do is basically fuck-pause-fuck-pause, and I would like to be able to switch between activities so that there could be more options than just pausing and going right back into fucking. He can usually ramp back down again when he is close if I switch to light touching via hands or mouth. I'd like to have the option of doing that between the fucking.
The second issue is that he can usually be ready for a second time pretty quickly thereafter, but sometimes gets a little wilty when the condom gets introduced on an immediate second time. And then the third issue is that we just go through so damned many of them. Like on an overnight we might use three: two back to back at night and one in the morning.
I've never been a person who is particularly keen on condoms. I don't HATE them—and have had fantastic sex while wearing them—but my only use for them is as an STI barrier, since I have an IUD, and if someone is tested and I trust them, I've historically dispensed with them when I reach that point, unless both of us have a ton of outside partners going on. For example, I used them for a long time with Rider because a) he insisted on it, b) he had another primary who we both wanted to protect, and c) we were both sleeping around quite a bit. When Rider's other serious relationship ended, he and I fluid bonded together.
Our policy with others was always to use condoms unless we negotiated otherwise. He always used them (his choice) because of the risk of pregnancy and how the decision would be totally out of his hands at that point. I used them unless negotiated otherwise, which I did in the cases of Jake and Sam because they both had trouble keeping it up with them on. If we either had gone bareback without talking about it first, we both agreed that would be cheating on our agreements.
Over the past couple of weeks, when I've been with Jasper, I've really become hyper-aware that I want to ditch the condoms. He's not fucking anyone else and has told me explicitly that he would tell me if it happened. I know I can trust him on this. I might not know him inside and out after only a few months of acquaintance, but I do have a sense of the kind of person he is and in which ways he is reliable and unreliable. I believe that this system is now a closed system with everyone in it having been tested—there is no STI risk.
So, being a conscientious person, I raised the issue with Rider as soon as I became aware of my desires, just like I had the other two times. This did not go well. He very, very much does not want me to fluid bond with Jasper. And it's raised all kind of thorny issues that I did not know even existed. I'll just bullet them here for the sake of brevity:
1. Rider says in one breath that he trusts my judgment and then says in the next breath that he doesn't know Jasper that well so this makes him uncomfortable. Which is it? Either he trusts my judgment to know what my risk is or he has to get to know the person and make his own judgment rather than trusting mine. The two things can't coexist.
2. A few times he's said it isn't even the STI risk, but rather the increased intimacy. Excuse me, but "intimacy shield" is never one of the purposes I've employed condoms for. I've used them against STIs and against pregnancy. When Rider said something about the trust two people must place in each other in order to fluid bond being the source of the intimacy, I pointed out that even if I keep the condoms at Rider's behest, it does not diminish the fact that I already trust Jasper to that degree, so if it's really about trust = intimacy, the condoms make no difference whatsoever. That did not go well either. But it's true! And that's not even to mention that being super intimate is what sex is all about. If someone has part of their face inside my vagina, I'm not sure how much more intimate it can get!
3. And then he's raised that he thought that fluid bonding was a special thing of emotional significance that we've reserved just for us. First of all, we never explicitly said anything like that. And, secondly, that's not even historically TRUE, given Jake and Sam. The reason I went back to condoms with Jake and Sam is because both of them had been with other people during one of our long-distance interims and hadn't been re-tested. It had nothing to do with my specially reserving that one thing for Rider. And when I bring that up, he goes back again to how we've known Jake and Sam for 20 years and he doesn't know Jasper that well, thus closing the loop of circularity that I cannot seem to extract myself from.
4. There's one more spur that sometimes juts off tangentially, which is that he objects that I'm "not even in a committed relationship with this person." And I'm not. It's FWB. But it's a FWB who I feel like I can trust to tell me the truth, and who is not having sex with anyone else. The presence or absence of a condom is not a magical talisman that changes my relationship status or intentions toward someone. And as far as I'm concerned, the fluid-bond would be easy-come, easy-go: if Jasper finds someone else to start sleeping with, back to condoms. Easy peasy! Or, in all likelihood, the sexual component of our friendship would just end if he found someone else he was attracted to who was not already in a relationship. That's fine too. Either way, the condom does not mean anything to me other than a simple safety device. But Rider clearly places more gravity on it than I do.
5. I am having serious bad feelings about a man wanting to control what happens between me and someone else that I am having sex with, especially around the idea of what goes or does not go into my vagina. I've raised the point that the general wisdom among people who are sexually non-monogamous is that you do what you need to do to protect yourself, but you don't get to dictate what other people do with their bodies. The thing is, I know it's not really about the safety. It's really about the control. It's maddening.
6. I also had a thought that I voiced that maybe this discussion would be the worst of it—a sort of ripping the band-aid off and then he would kind of never have another reason the be confronted with the subject again until it was time for me to tell him Jasper had been with someone else (and then only to confirm that the condoms would be coming back or the sexual aspect would be ending). I said to him, "After all, how much mental energy do you devote to thinking about my sex life with Jasper?" This, thinking it would be little to none. Thinking that once the issue had receded safely out of the present, it would slink out of mind. But what he told me is that he thinks about it more than he'd like to, and more than he should. And he grimaced.
This is the point when I realized it wasn't just the fluid bonding issue. Rider is still having serious issues with my having sex with Jasper. I am completely at a loss for what to do. On the one hand, yes, we agreed to go monogamous . . . but after these current connections ended. But on the other hand, for fuck's sake, this is the first time in the three years I've been with Rider that I have someone else local to have sex with—who I'm actually on the same page with now—and . . . I just really feel like I am not done here yet. Our agreement was "when these current connections ended" and mine is going well!
He cites the imbalance that I, myself, complained about for so long. He says he'd feel better about it if he had someone too. I keep telling him that if he feels imbalanced, like I did for so many years, he is free to seek a FWB/fuckbuddy/whatever. He has an excuse for that too, saying he doesn't feel like it because he's afraid I'll freak out about it. He won't take my word for it when I say that I can manage my own emotions. He uses as his evidence my three-day sex drive crash when he unexpectedly first had sex with Hannah.
So I can't win there. Some involuntary action of my body, which resolved itself within three days, and which I believe was tied more to the being surprised than to the event itself, is now the impetus for Rider to not do the one thing he says might help him feel better about things. I can't change the past, and I can't do much to change my fluctuations in sex drive due to emotions. I am therefore completely powerless.
I feel like his non-reasoning reasoning is painting me into a corner, like he is trying to lead me on a breadcrumb trail where the only way he'll be completely comfortable with the situation is for me to forget all about the fluid bonding that I'd prefer, and maybe even to stop with Jasper altogether.
Where went the Rider that I knew who was so laid back about everything and who found the tales of my sexual adventures exciting?
So, I am the only person Jasper has had sex with in a while. He was tested in December in order to be with me, and it had been long enough before that that if there were any HIV risk, it would have shown up then.
We have been having sex now for about two months, and during that time, I have noticed that the way that his body works and the way that our sex works together makes condoms inconvenient. Basically, he is super excitable and comes really fast from extended penetration. At least the first time. So we usually get around that by doing a bunch of other stuff for a long time first, making sure I get off, and then we have a few moments of penetration with a lot of pausing.
Once the condom is on, then, really, fucking is the only thing left to do. Maybe not everyone feels this way, but for me, it's weird to try to use my hands or mouth over a condom. Right now, what we do is basically fuck-pause-fuck-pause, and I would like to be able to switch between activities so that there could be more options than just pausing and going right back into fucking. He can usually ramp back down again when he is close if I switch to light touching via hands or mouth. I'd like to have the option of doing that between the fucking.
The second issue is that he can usually be ready for a second time pretty quickly thereafter, but sometimes gets a little wilty when the condom gets introduced on an immediate second time. And then the third issue is that we just go through so damned many of them. Like on an overnight we might use three: two back to back at night and one in the morning.
I've never been a person who is particularly keen on condoms. I don't HATE them—and have had fantastic sex while wearing them—but my only use for them is as an STI barrier, since I have an IUD, and if someone is tested and I trust them, I've historically dispensed with them when I reach that point, unless both of us have a ton of outside partners going on. For example, I used them for a long time with Rider because a) he insisted on it, b) he had another primary who we both wanted to protect, and c) we were both sleeping around quite a bit. When Rider's other serious relationship ended, he and I fluid bonded together.
Our policy with others was always to use condoms unless we negotiated otherwise. He always used them (his choice) because of the risk of pregnancy and how the decision would be totally out of his hands at that point. I used them unless negotiated otherwise, which I did in the cases of Jake and Sam because they both had trouble keeping it up with them on. If we either had gone bareback without talking about it first, we both agreed that would be cheating on our agreements.
Over the past couple of weeks, when I've been with Jasper, I've really become hyper-aware that I want to ditch the condoms. He's not fucking anyone else and has told me explicitly that he would tell me if it happened. I know I can trust him on this. I might not know him inside and out after only a few months of acquaintance, but I do have a sense of the kind of person he is and in which ways he is reliable and unreliable. I believe that this system is now a closed system with everyone in it having been tested—there is no STI risk.
So, being a conscientious person, I raised the issue with Rider as soon as I became aware of my desires, just like I had the other two times. This did not go well. He very, very much does not want me to fluid bond with Jasper. And it's raised all kind of thorny issues that I did not know even existed. I'll just bullet them here for the sake of brevity:
1. Rider says in one breath that he trusts my judgment and then says in the next breath that he doesn't know Jasper that well so this makes him uncomfortable. Which is it? Either he trusts my judgment to know what my risk is or he has to get to know the person and make his own judgment rather than trusting mine. The two things can't coexist.
2. A few times he's said it isn't even the STI risk, but rather the increased intimacy. Excuse me, but "intimacy shield" is never one of the purposes I've employed condoms for. I've used them against STIs and against pregnancy. When Rider said something about the trust two people must place in each other in order to fluid bond being the source of the intimacy, I pointed out that even if I keep the condoms at Rider's behest, it does not diminish the fact that I already trust Jasper to that degree, so if it's really about trust = intimacy, the condoms make no difference whatsoever. That did not go well either. But it's true! And that's not even to mention that being super intimate is what sex is all about. If someone has part of their face inside my vagina, I'm not sure how much more intimate it can get!
3. And then he's raised that he thought that fluid bonding was a special thing of emotional significance that we've reserved just for us. First of all, we never explicitly said anything like that. And, secondly, that's not even historically TRUE, given Jake and Sam. The reason I went back to condoms with Jake and Sam is because both of them had been with other people during one of our long-distance interims and hadn't been re-tested. It had nothing to do with my specially reserving that one thing for Rider. And when I bring that up, he goes back again to how we've known Jake and Sam for 20 years and he doesn't know Jasper that well, thus closing the loop of circularity that I cannot seem to extract myself from.
4. There's one more spur that sometimes juts off tangentially, which is that he objects that I'm "not even in a committed relationship with this person." And I'm not. It's FWB. But it's a FWB who I feel like I can trust to tell me the truth, and who is not having sex with anyone else. The presence or absence of a condom is not a magical talisman that changes my relationship status or intentions toward someone. And as far as I'm concerned, the fluid-bond would be easy-come, easy-go: if Jasper finds someone else to start sleeping with, back to condoms. Easy peasy! Or, in all likelihood, the sexual component of our friendship would just end if he found someone else he was attracted to who was not already in a relationship. That's fine too. Either way, the condom does not mean anything to me other than a simple safety device. But Rider clearly places more gravity on it than I do.
5. I am having serious bad feelings about a man wanting to control what happens between me and someone else that I am having sex with, especially around the idea of what goes or does not go into my vagina. I've raised the point that the general wisdom among people who are sexually non-monogamous is that you do what you need to do to protect yourself, but you don't get to dictate what other people do with their bodies. The thing is, I know it's not really about the safety. It's really about the control. It's maddening.
6. I also had a thought that I voiced that maybe this discussion would be the worst of it—a sort of ripping the band-aid off and then he would kind of never have another reason the be confronted with the subject again until it was time for me to tell him Jasper had been with someone else (and then only to confirm that the condoms would be coming back or the sexual aspect would be ending). I said to him, "After all, how much mental energy do you devote to thinking about my sex life with Jasper?" This, thinking it would be little to none. Thinking that once the issue had receded safely out of the present, it would slink out of mind. But what he told me is that he thinks about it more than he'd like to, and more than he should. And he grimaced.
This is the point when I realized it wasn't just the fluid bonding issue. Rider is still having serious issues with my having sex with Jasper. I am completely at a loss for what to do. On the one hand, yes, we agreed to go monogamous . . . but after these current connections ended. But on the other hand, for fuck's sake, this is the first time in the three years I've been with Rider that I have someone else local to have sex with—who I'm actually on the same page with now—and . . . I just really feel like I am not done here yet. Our agreement was "when these current connections ended" and mine is going well!
He cites the imbalance that I, myself, complained about for so long. He says he'd feel better about it if he had someone too. I keep telling him that if he feels imbalanced, like I did for so many years, he is free to seek a FWB/fuckbuddy/whatever. He has an excuse for that too, saying he doesn't feel like it because he's afraid I'll freak out about it. He won't take my word for it when I say that I can manage my own emotions. He uses as his evidence my three-day sex drive crash when he unexpectedly first had sex with Hannah.
So I can't win there. Some involuntary action of my body, which resolved itself within three days, and which I believe was tied more to the being surprised than to the event itself, is now the impetus for Rider to not do the one thing he says might help him feel better about things. I can't change the past, and I can't do much to change my fluctuations in sex drive due to emotions. I am therefore completely powerless.
I feel like his non-reasoning reasoning is painting me into a corner, like he is trying to lead me on a breadcrumb trail where the only way he'll be completely comfortable with the situation is for me to forget all about the fluid bonding that I'd prefer, and maybe even to stop with Jasper altogether.
Where went the Rider that I knew who was so laid back about everything and who found the tales of my sexual adventures exciting?
Spork
Active member
From the outside, all I can say is that maybe a thing you both have now experienced and need to work through your respective grumps on...
Poly is fine except when it is going well for one of you but not the other.
You have experienced this feeling plenty. When it's going better for Rider, you feel grumpy about it and you're not sure if you can do it. Think, maybe mono would be better.
Now that it is going well for you, but he no longer has a Hannah, and he's run into the last episode of you being maybe-mono because of difficult feelings and all that, now HE has discomforts about you and Jasper.
I think he presently has the sense that something does not feel fair, but he's having trouble squaring it away in a logical manner that doesn't make him look immature or petty. Sometimes our feelings, though, refuse to bend into shapes that are "right" with logic. Shapes that can be supported by a sensible argument. At which point, you can of course make more logic and sense than him right now and therefore in the battle of the brains, you will win... Yeah, but tell that to his heart.
His heart doesn't care if you're right. It just feels things. Uncomfortable things.
So maybe, (from what I've been reading and hearing lately)...maybe it would help to clear a space where you two talk about things that you feel, like focus on what he is feeling and giving him permission to feel it, WITHOUT either balancing it against things that you have felt, OR arguing with it using brainlogics. Set aside the debate skills and the bullet points. Just let him feel stuff and listen. No pressure to do anything because of, or figure out if it's right, ok, or fair. No scorekeeping.
Maybe see where that goes, as an exercise.
I think that sometimes as couples we might get a bit too caught up in efforts to solve problems. Your tricky feelings resolved themselves after a few days, right? Maybe you guys need to not make relationship rules under emotional duress. Like let yourself feel the stuff and get through the feels, put a waiting space in, like maybe "if I still feel icky after a week (or two or whatever) then we will revisit." And I would also suggest that the person having turmoil write brief journal entries just so that they can look back and see during this time, what they were feeling.
Like "Monday. Felt squicky. Did not talk to Rider about it."
"Tuesday. Felt ok."
"Wednesday. Not doing so good. Got snuggles. Felt better."
"Thursday. Upset about X, tried to talk, ended up arguing."
Just the basics.
The theory is, that emotions are a process, and that if you let them happen, they'll blow though and THEN you can deal with the real stuff better. So maybe a little time buffer between mentioning a thing, sparking some feelings, deal with the feelings, and then revisit to see what if anything gets done about stuff. Just a suggestion. *shrug* ??
Poly is fine except when it is going well for one of you but not the other.
You have experienced this feeling plenty. When it's going better for Rider, you feel grumpy about it and you're not sure if you can do it. Think, maybe mono would be better.
Now that it is going well for you, but he no longer has a Hannah, and he's run into the last episode of you being maybe-mono because of difficult feelings and all that, now HE has discomforts about you and Jasper.
I think he presently has the sense that something does not feel fair, but he's having trouble squaring it away in a logical manner that doesn't make him look immature or petty. Sometimes our feelings, though, refuse to bend into shapes that are "right" with logic. Shapes that can be supported by a sensible argument. At which point, you can of course make more logic and sense than him right now and therefore in the battle of the brains, you will win... Yeah, but tell that to his heart.
His heart doesn't care if you're right. It just feels things. Uncomfortable things.
So maybe, (from what I've been reading and hearing lately)...maybe it would help to clear a space where you two talk about things that you feel, like focus on what he is feeling and giving him permission to feel it, WITHOUT either balancing it against things that you have felt, OR arguing with it using brainlogics. Set aside the debate skills and the bullet points. Just let him feel stuff and listen. No pressure to do anything because of, or figure out if it's right, ok, or fair. No scorekeeping.
Maybe see where that goes, as an exercise.
I think that sometimes as couples we might get a bit too caught up in efforts to solve problems. Your tricky feelings resolved themselves after a few days, right? Maybe you guys need to not make relationship rules under emotional duress. Like let yourself feel the stuff and get through the feels, put a waiting space in, like maybe "if I still feel icky after a week (or two or whatever) then we will revisit." And I would also suggest that the person having turmoil write brief journal entries just so that they can look back and see during this time, what they were feeling.
Like "Monday. Felt squicky. Did not talk to Rider about it."
"Tuesday. Felt ok."
"Wednesday. Not doing so good. Got snuggles. Felt better."
"Thursday. Upset about X, tried to talk, ended up arguing."
Just the basics.
The theory is, that emotions are a process, and that if you let them happen, they'll blow though and THEN you can deal with the real stuff better. So maybe a little time buffer between mentioning a thing, sparking some feelings, deal with the feelings, and then revisit to see what if anything gets done about stuff. Just a suggestion. *shrug* ??
InfinitePossibility
New member
I'm sad you're going through more tough times.
As an outsider just reading your blog, you guys seem to go through a pattern.
Things are good and you are both happy. Ring poly/open/some brand of non monogamous. Then one of you meets someone exciting (usually Rider). The other one finds it tough. Dealing with the new plus a sense of imbalance is exhausting and time consuming.
You both seek ways to minimise the tough. You guys work together to come up with a plan. Things are then good again until the next imbalance.
I obviously can only comment from a very limited perspective but it seems to me as if you might both feel more at ease if you accept that there is no perfect life,no way to avoid bad feelings. Every lifestyle choice has drawbacks and times when life sucks. All any of us can do is choose what's important and then go through the bad times.
There is no fair in life, no way to have everything.
I think you guys do amazingly well and I hope you are both on the same page again soon.
As an outsider just reading your blog, you guys seem to go through a pattern.
Things are good and you are both happy. Ring poly/open/some brand of non monogamous. Then one of you meets someone exciting (usually Rider). The other one finds it tough. Dealing with the new plus a sense of imbalance is exhausting and time consuming.
You both seek ways to minimise the tough. You guys work together to come up with a plan. Things are then good again until the next imbalance.
I obviously can only comment from a very limited perspective but it seems to me as if you might both feel more at ease if you accept that there is no perfect life,no way to avoid bad feelings. Every lifestyle choice has drawbacks and times when life sucks. All any of us can do is choose what's important and then go through the bad times.
There is no fair in life, no way to have everything.
I think you guys do amazingly well and I hope you are both on the same page again soon.
Reverie
Active member
OK, my long-attempted follow-up post...
The day after my last post, I talked to Rider about that stuff some more, actually copy/pasting large swaths of what I had written here and also the responses, so that he could read them. Rider said the feedback was very helpful and, at the time, we agreed it sounded like a good idea to discuss stuff once just for airing feelings without looking for solutions, and then for whomever is struggling to journal for a week before we revisit the subject.
I said I'd give him all this week without breathing another word about any of this, and he said he'd do some journaling, and we agreed to reconvene on Sunday, after morning coffee, and talk about it again. I think that having that space has been helpful, for sure—we're not nipping at each other over this stuff, at least—but I did a couple of times earlier in the week ask the very general question about whether the journaling was going well, and both times he said something along the lines of "oh, I need to start on that..."
I am not bringing it up again until tomorrow when we are scheduled to talk, but I am pretty disappointed that when it is his turn to work on something, it is a can that gets kicked down the road, whereas when it has been me who has needed to work on stuff, I've read all the books, and done the journaling, and asked for advice, and even gone to therapy for a time. But Rider seems to get this head-in-the-sand attitude and delay things when the pressure is off. It's the same as the time he'd said he would read More than Two for me when things were becoming a struggle in the situation with his ex, and then he never got around to it. But maybe he'll surprise me. Maybe he'll come to our Sunday conversation all resolved and feeling better.
There were other parts of our interactions in that conversation the other day that were really good, though, actually. I had gotten really irritated during that same general timeframe because of a combo of one of the points I raised in my last post and an earlier issue which I can't remember whether I raised it here, and there was some resolution that happened.
To rewind and give the backstory, because I can't remember if I did, basically there was something that came up, like, maybe five or six weeks ago, where I'd wanted to have Jasper over for a little while—basically long enough to have a beer—at a time when Rider wasn't going to be home. Rider had balked and said that he's really uncomfortable having people in the house when he's not there if he doesn't know them well and they aren't a longtime friend of someone he trusts. He said this applies to everyone: men, women, whomever. He said he even feels that way if he's the one who is there with them alone.
I was kinda shocked by this. I am the more introverted one, and yet I think very little of inviting brand-new friends over, even people I've met that very night, as long as I get a good vibe off of them. I am very laid back in that way, very trusting, I guess. And it's really never burned me—the one time someone DID steal something from me, it turned out to be someone I actually knew who'd developed a secret drug problem. New acquaintances have never caused trouble.
So that whole revelation made me feel a little trapped—I was suddenly aware that I was signing up to never be able to make a new friend and bring them home on a whim, and it upset me and made me feel like Rider doesn't trust my judgment. It also made me feel kinda like some '50s housewife who's not supposed to let the vacuum salesman in past the foyer if the man of the house isn't home. It's not like we have "nice things" (or ones small enough to pocket anyway). He admitted it was an irrational hang-up and that I probably have the more common view on this, and asked that I please just accommodate his irrational fear for now. So I did.
I let it go, feeling like it was a battle to fight another day. I didn't think about it again till the whole fluid-bonding thing, when I felt like my judgment was again being questioned.
I got really grumpy with Rider about what I now felt like was TWO pieces of evidence that he doesn't trust my judgment about interpersonal things. I only mentioned the one in my post because it was the only one that was on topic, but they were linked together in my mind.
So what the good part of this was this: after I let him read parts of my post, he sighed and said that he had to admit that it really wasn't about trusting my judgment—he really didn't have safety at the forefront of his mind, and it wasn't that he thought I was being too lax in my assessment of the risk of Jasper. It was just that he was jealous and so much didn't want the fluid bonding to happen that he was grasping at straws of things that would seem like valid reasons.
While it's not particularly good that he did that and feels that way, it seems like progress that he's willing to admit it. And now his questioning of my judgment has dropped back down to "one anomalous, irrational hang-up" instead of "this is a pattern." Which is good, because I've NEVER given him any reason to reasonably doubt my sexual risk assessment. I've always been adamant about testing, picky about partners, and careful about protection unless certain stringent circumstances were satisfied. In fact, the one "probable" scare we had, for which we had to take antibiotics (the trich thing back in 2015, which was never officially diagnosed since both my clinic and Kelly's told us that no matter whether it was trich or BV the same pill would cure both) came in on Rider's end.
He said that what it really comes down to is that he wants exclusive rights to fluid-bonding because it seems more "special" if he's the only one who "gets" that kind of intimacy. And also that he finds it hard to square the idea of FWB with that kind of intimacy, so it bothers him by making him feel like it's not really FWB.
I really hope he can bring himself around to logic on both of those things. Like, he said to me last weekend that he actually feels like it takes something away from him and from the sex we have if I do that with someone else. Even if Jasper didn't exist, it makes me very uneasy that he could consider our sex to be less good because of some outside factor that actually has nothing to do with it.
It also makes me feel very "buck the patriarchy" that he has a sense of ownership over the walls of my vagina such that he feels like something has been taken from him if another person's semen touches them. Since he doesn't care if the penis goes in me covered, and he doesn't care if the semen goes in my mouth, it seems very, like, specifically related to patriarchal ideas of conception and paternity, even it's not a conscious thing and even though neither of us want kids. (It'd be a lot more understandable if I wanted kids or was on the fence and could be convinced by an "oops"—strictly speaking, my having someone else's kid WOULD be taking something from Rider.)
And then on the "it not feeling like FWB to him" thing . . . maaaaaannnn . . . he really just needs to trust me that it is what I say it is. I know I can't MAKE someone trust me. But, really, I've never given him any reason not to. I've never misrepresented any of my other connections. I've always kept him in the know about the level I was at with anyone.
So.
The lack of trust on being able to take my word on what a connection is (especially when I've never given him reason) and the whiffs of patriarchy around activities that could possibly result in conception are things I'd want to stamp out if possible even without Jasper in the picture. I *know* Rider has it in him to get to those points. It's just the matter of the tack to take to get there.
I'll talk to him tomorrow, and hopefully it won't take another whole week to get time to post again . . .
The day after my last post, I talked to Rider about that stuff some more, actually copy/pasting large swaths of what I had written here and also the responses, so that he could read them. Rider said the feedback was very helpful and, at the time, we agreed it sounded like a good idea to discuss stuff once just for airing feelings without looking for solutions, and then for whomever is struggling to journal for a week before we revisit the subject.
I said I'd give him all this week without breathing another word about any of this, and he said he'd do some journaling, and we agreed to reconvene on Sunday, after morning coffee, and talk about it again. I think that having that space has been helpful, for sure—we're not nipping at each other over this stuff, at least—but I did a couple of times earlier in the week ask the very general question about whether the journaling was going well, and both times he said something along the lines of "oh, I need to start on that..."
I am not bringing it up again until tomorrow when we are scheduled to talk, but I am pretty disappointed that when it is his turn to work on something, it is a can that gets kicked down the road, whereas when it has been me who has needed to work on stuff, I've read all the books, and done the journaling, and asked for advice, and even gone to therapy for a time. But Rider seems to get this head-in-the-sand attitude and delay things when the pressure is off. It's the same as the time he'd said he would read More than Two for me when things were becoming a struggle in the situation with his ex, and then he never got around to it. But maybe he'll surprise me. Maybe he'll come to our Sunday conversation all resolved and feeling better.
There were other parts of our interactions in that conversation the other day that were really good, though, actually. I had gotten really irritated during that same general timeframe because of a combo of one of the points I raised in my last post and an earlier issue which I can't remember whether I raised it here, and there was some resolution that happened.
To rewind and give the backstory, because I can't remember if I did, basically there was something that came up, like, maybe five or six weeks ago, where I'd wanted to have Jasper over for a little while—basically long enough to have a beer—at a time when Rider wasn't going to be home. Rider had balked and said that he's really uncomfortable having people in the house when he's not there if he doesn't know them well and they aren't a longtime friend of someone he trusts. He said this applies to everyone: men, women, whomever. He said he even feels that way if he's the one who is there with them alone.
I was kinda shocked by this. I am the more introverted one, and yet I think very little of inviting brand-new friends over, even people I've met that very night, as long as I get a good vibe off of them. I am very laid back in that way, very trusting, I guess. And it's really never burned me—the one time someone DID steal something from me, it turned out to be someone I actually knew who'd developed a secret drug problem. New acquaintances have never caused trouble.
So that whole revelation made me feel a little trapped—I was suddenly aware that I was signing up to never be able to make a new friend and bring them home on a whim, and it upset me and made me feel like Rider doesn't trust my judgment. It also made me feel kinda like some '50s housewife who's not supposed to let the vacuum salesman in past the foyer if the man of the house isn't home. It's not like we have "nice things" (or ones small enough to pocket anyway). He admitted it was an irrational hang-up and that I probably have the more common view on this, and asked that I please just accommodate his irrational fear for now. So I did.
I let it go, feeling like it was a battle to fight another day. I didn't think about it again till the whole fluid-bonding thing, when I felt like my judgment was again being questioned.
I got really grumpy with Rider about what I now felt like was TWO pieces of evidence that he doesn't trust my judgment about interpersonal things. I only mentioned the one in my post because it was the only one that was on topic, but they were linked together in my mind.
So what the good part of this was this: after I let him read parts of my post, he sighed and said that he had to admit that it really wasn't about trusting my judgment—he really didn't have safety at the forefront of his mind, and it wasn't that he thought I was being too lax in my assessment of the risk of Jasper. It was just that he was jealous and so much didn't want the fluid bonding to happen that he was grasping at straws of things that would seem like valid reasons.
While it's not particularly good that he did that and feels that way, it seems like progress that he's willing to admit it. And now his questioning of my judgment has dropped back down to "one anomalous, irrational hang-up" instead of "this is a pattern." Which is good, because I've NEVER given him any reason to reasonably doubt my sexual risk assessment. I've always been adamant about testing, picky about partners, and careful about protection unless certain stringent circumstances were satisfied. In fact, the one "probable" scare we had, for which we had to take antibiotics (the trich thing back in 2015, which was never officially diagnosed since both my clinic and Kelly's told us that no matter whether it was trich or BV the same pill would cure both) came in on Rider's end.
He said that what it really comes down to is that he wants exclusive rights to fluid-bonding because it seems more "special" if he's the only one who "gets" that kind of intimacy. And also that he finds it hard to square the idea of FWB with that kind of intimacy, so it bothers him by making him feel like it's not really FWB.
I really hope he can bring himself around to logic on both of those things. Like, he said to me last weekend that he actually feels like it takes something away from him and from the sex we have if I do that with someone else. Even if Jasper didn't exist, it makes me very uneasy that he could consider our sex to be less good because of some outside factor that actually has nothing to do with it.
It also makes me feel very "buck the patriarchy" that he has a sense of ownership over the walls of my vagina such that he feels like something has been taken from him if another person's semen touches them. Since he doesn't care if the penis goes in me covered, and he doesn't care if the semen goes in my mouth, it seems very, like, specifically related to patriarchal ideas of conception and paternity, even it's not a conscious thing and even though neither of us want kids. (It'd be a lot more understandable if I wanted kids or was on the fence and could be convinced by an "oops"—strictly speaking, my having someone else's kid WOULD be taking something from Rider.)
And then on the "it not feeling like FWB to him" thing . . . maaaaaannnn . . . he really just needs to trust me that it is what I say it is. I know I can't MAKE someone trust me. But, really, I've never given him any reason not to. I've never misrepresented any of my other connections. I've always kept him in the know about the level I was at with anyone.
So.
The lack of trust on being able to take my word on what a connection is (especially when I've never given him reason) and the whiffs of patriarchy around activities that could possibly result in conception are things I'd want to stamp out if possible even without Jasper in the picture. I *know* Rider has it in him to get to those points. It's just the matter of the tack to take to get there.
I'll talk to him tomorrow, and hopefully it won't take another whole week to get time to post again . . .
I want to suggest these ideas are maybe monogamy but not really patriarchy. I do get Rider. If I have a partner and he wants to go bareback with someone, I'd be significantly more scared about pregnancy. Also fluid-bonding = not fwb... that's my feeling on things. It's almost a physical reaction of my body, there's not much logic in there to be found.
breathemusic
Active member
While if I had to guess, I'd say we're more in the minority, I agree with Reverie in that fluid bonding shouldn't have to equate to intimacy. I understand that most people don't feel that way, but to me... It's def more about logistics and trust. Then again, I'm also the woman so I have the control over my body in case of pregnancy risk, and I'm pro-choice with an IUD and no desire for kids. So to me, any concern about pregnancy risk doesn't factor in. It's only about STIs.
Either way, I hope that you guys are able to resolve tour differences on this!
Either way, I hope that you guys are able to resolve tour differences on this!
Reverie
Active member
Yeah, on the guy's end it's a lot riskier. ALL THREE of my brothers have accidentally impregnated women and now have children they didn't plan for, so it happens. In my case, I know I'd abort if I got pregnant, no matter whose sperm somehow circumvented my IUD, so there's no fear there. Really, only if he gets the snip can a guy who doesn't want any kids can be certain he won't acquire any.
I wouldn't be happy with Rider going bareback with someone until he gets the snip (which he says he wants to do), but afterward, if everyone were tested and it were a closed system, I don't have a problem with it.
Turns out we're not having our talk today. I'm about to go hiking with a chick friend, and when I asked Rider yesterday what time after my hike would be good to talk, he told me he wasn't gonna be ready yet. I got irritated because he'd known it was coming and had all week and when I inquired, he hadn't done any of the journaling.
We ended up having a huge fight in front of the concert venue where we were going to see one of my favorite bands. He said some stuff that I thought was really messed up, saying that he's powerless because I'm just going to do what I want (which is not true—the whole reason I'm coming to him to negotiate is that I'm not just going to up and change our agreements) and insinuating that if he'd known earlier that I was going to want to do this, maybe he wouldn't have wanted to marry me, but now everyone's tickets are bought.
That hurt me really bad. I felt like he was painting me to be some kind of inconsiderate jerk who was just going to do as I pleased, his feelings be damned, and who hid that part of myself until I had him "trapped" by his parents having bought their plane tickets for our wedding. All this for something I haven't even DONE, but merely brought to him to communicate about. He's angry with me for even WANTING a thing.
So I dunno. It's not the biggest deal in the world to me to do the thing. It's something that I want but not something that I NEED. I'm obviously not going to blow up my whole relationship over this one thing, but I do think that there are some serious things going on here that will need to eventually be resolved. More later. Time to go hike.
Hannahfluke
Member
Around the time that you first started posting about how you asked Rider to basically have monogamy plus, back in January, a post appeared on Fetlife's Poly & Kinky group asking questions for a friend about a situation that was so similar to yours that I was pretty sure it was a friend of Rider's who had posted it to ask questions about whether what you wanted was reasonable and what other poly people thought of your offer for a compromise. The whole post was extremely negative towards the person in your position and so was every follow up post by the original poster. I debated whether or not I should tell you about it, because it seemed like something you might want to know and then you posted Rider's letter, where it sounded like everything was good again, so I decided not to rock the boat. With all of this new stuff happening, I decided that it might be something you wanted to know about and ask Rider about. If this is really how he talks about you with his friends, I'd have a big problem with it if it were me. Here's the link to the post: https://fetlife.com/groups/107/group_posts/10369155
If it isn't about you and Rider, that's great. If it is, I think it's something you should talk to him about. Especially now that he's exhibiting the same issues that are talked about as such big problems in this post.
I apologize in advance if I shouldn't have shared this with you. I agonized for a day or more originally, because I'd want to know if my partner was talking about me this way, but I also didn't want to cause you more issues. I feel the same way now, but really feel it is important information for you to have if it is about you.
If it isn't about you and Rider, that's great. If it is, I think it's something you should talk to him about. Especially now that he's exhibiting the same issues that are talked about as such big problems in this post.
I apologize in advance if I shouldn't have shared this with you. I agonized for a day or more originally, because I'd want to know if my partner was talking about me this way, but I also didn't want to cause you more issues. I feel the same way now, but really feel it is important information for you to have if it is about you.
Reverie
Active member
Thanks for the heads up, Hannah. I do see parallels, and the timing seems uncanny, but (thankfully) it couldn't be a friend of Rider's.
Firstly, he told me he didn't confide all of that in anyone when we were going through it, and, secondly, there were enough details that were off that it would have to be a pretty bad game of "telephone" for that person to be describing our situation. Also, I'm pretty sure that he doesn't even HAVE a friend who fits that person's description (looking at their other posts).
So whatever parallels do exist, they are mere coincidence. I agree that whoever posted that stuff and their friend really need to reconsider how they talk about their friend! If it WERE my partner and their friend talking about me in that way, I'd be really hurt by the friend's attempt to sort of present a case, lawyer-style, about why my partner should end our relationship, trying to get the public to weigh in.
Unrelated to all of that, I'm happy to say that things are going better again already. Rider texted me while I was on my hike and said he'd had a think and was feeling a lot better about everything.
We ended up having a talk after all, and he said that he thinks that fight we had last night was something that he really needed—just to have some back and forth and shake things loose in his head about the issue so that he wasn't trapped in the same pattern of thinking over and over. He also apologized for saying things that hurt me, and I forgave him immediately. And he said that it was very helpful that I emphasized last night that this isn't something I *need* or will do at any cost. I think once he realized I wasn't just going to steamroll over his feelings, he relaxed some.
We historically almost never "fight" fight. We usually have very well-reasoned "discussions" where we both maintain our composure (aside from maybe a few quiet tears) and refrain from saying things we don't mean. Last night's public row, tear-filled and snappish, was new territory for us. I'm glad it was helpful for him. I definitely wouldn't want to get in the HABIT of that, but if it's necessary every once in a while for us both to defend our positions with passion rather than carefully measured arguments, I can handle that.
One of the things I had asked him to consider was the "possible universe" in which he'd be OK with the thing that I wanted. It didn't have to be this universe, and it didn't have to ever happen, but what would the universe look like where he was OK with the thing. I told him to answer me whenever he figures it out, and we'd take a look at the gap between this current universe and that one to see whether it was bridgeable (or whether it was a crazy chasm that could never be crossed).
As we talked today, he raised on his own that, after some reflection, he has found the "possible universe," and that it is not too far from our own. He said that his introspection helped him to understand that his only real issue was that it made him feel less special when something that we'd been doing only with each other was made available to other people. He said that the "possible universe" was one in which, if I am "taking" this thing out of exclusivity, I "give" him some other exclusive thing that I promise not to do with others.
This, to me, seems super simple and like a good fix! There is already other stuff that I am really interested in doing only with Rider and not with Jasper, so I could add one more thing to the pile without being upset about it. Rider also said he wouldn't make it any of the stuff that he knows I am super attached to and would want to do with anyone. He's going to think on it and let me know.
He's got time. I'm off to Jasper's in a few minutes, but I just started bleeding and don't think I feel like PIV today anyhow. And then I'm out of town next weekend with Rider and Perry, scouting wedding and photo locations within the park we've picked. I'm sure he can think of whatever our replacement thing will be within the space of a week.
Wow, I really love this guy so much! Every time we run into some kind of snag that looks insurmountable, we work together and communicate and are both willing to be flexible and meet in the middle. I'm really glad I'm marrying this particular man. <3 <3 <3
Firstly, he told me he didn't confide all of that in anyone when we were going through it, and, secondly, there were enough details that were off that it would have to be a pretty bad game of "telephone" for that person to be describing our situation. Also, I'm pretty sure that he doesn't even HAVE a friend who fits that person's description (looking at their other posts).
So whatever parallels do exist, they are mere coincidence. I agree that whoever posted that stuff and their friend really need to reconsider how they talk about their friend! If it WERE my partner and their friend talking about me in that way, I'd be really hurt by the friend's attempt to sort of present a case, lawyer-style, about why my partner should end our relationship, trying to get the public to weigh in.
Unrelated to all of that, I'm happy to say that things are going better again already. Rider texted me while I was on my hike and said he'd had a think and was feeling a lot better about everything.
We ended up having a talk after all, and he said that he thinks that fight we had last night was something that he really needed—just to have some back and forth and shake things loose in his head about the issue so that he wasn't trapped in the same pattern of thinking over and over. He also apologized for saying things that hurt me, and I forgave him immediately. And he said that it was very helpful that I emphasized last night that this isn't something I *need* or will do at any cost. I think once he realized I wasn't just going to steamroll over his feelings, he relaxed some.
We historically almost never "fight" fight. We usually have very well-reasoned "discussions" where we both maintain our composure (aside from maybe a few quiet tears) and refrain from saying things we don't mean. Last night's public row, tear-filled and snappish, was new territory for us. I'm glad it was helpful for him. I definitely wouldn't want to get in the HABIT of that, but if it's necessary every once in a while for us both to defend our positions with passion rather than carefully measured arguments, I can handle that.
One of the things I had asked him to consider was the "possible universe" in which he'd be OK with the thing that I wanted. It didn't have to be this universe, and it didn't have to ever happen, but what would the universe look like where he was OK with the thing. I told him to answer me whenever he figures it out, and we'd take a look at the gap between this current universe and that one to see whether it was bridgeable (or whether it was a crazy chasm that could never be crossed).
As we talked today, he raised on his own that, after some reflection, he has found the "possible universe," and that it is not too far from our own. He said that his introspection helped him to understand that his only real issue was that it made him feel less special when something that we'd been doing only with each other was made available to other people. He said that the "possible universe" was one in which, if I am "taking" this thing out of exclusivity, I "give" him some other exclusive thing that I promise not to do with others.
This, to me, seems super simple and like a good fix! There is already other stuff that I am really interested in doing only with Rider and not with Jasper, so I could add one more thing to the pile without being upset about it. Rider also said he wouldn't make it any of the stuff that he knows I am super attached to and would want to do with anyone. He's going to think on it and let me know.
He's got time. I'm off to Jasper's in a few minutes, but I just started bleeding and don't think I feel like PIV today anyhow. And then I'm out of town next weekend with Rider and Perry, scouting wedding and photo locations within the park we've picked. I'm sure he can think of whatever our replacement thing will be within the space of a week.
Wow, I really love this guy so much! Every time we run into some kind of snag that looks insurmountable, we work together and communicate and are both willing to be flexible and meet in the middle. I'm really glad I'm marrying this particular man. <3 <3 <3
Hannahfluke
Member
I am so glad that the post isn't about you and Rider. The whole thing presented Sandy in such a cruel way, that I'd hate for it to be anyone I know. I'm glad that things are going better with you and Rider.
Reverie
Active member
Tonight, I have ACTUAL DOWNTIME! So I'm posting again because I need a break from politics and have an itch to do some writing. I'll talk about some of the other stuff that's been happening in my life. Rather than work forward in time like I usually do, this time I'll work backward and go only as far back as I feel like till I get tired of writing or it gets late.
Rider is currently curled up next to me on the couch, snoozing away. His big plans for the evening were to take a THC pill and watch his wrestling pay-per-view. Now that it is over, he is napping.
My visit with Jasper was short but good he had dinner plans with a friend, so I was only over there for about two hours. We had (as always) incredible sex, then cuddles, and then he showed me some video games. He told me about the conference he was at all week, and how he made out with a hot guy at a party. We also played with his cat a bit. I returned his keys to him. I'd fed his cat for him this week while he was at the conference. I will probably not see him again till after I get back from my trip next weekend, but I told him I'd let him know if any schedule slots opened up.
I had a phone conversation with my mom this afternoon that was a bit worrisome. My aunt's batshit crazy 40-something son (with whom I am not on speaking terms) has been getting abusive with her and my mom is trying to get my aunt to move in with her. Apparently there was some kind of choking episode. The son has a serious drug problem and his wife just left him and took the kids, and so he's taking all his stuff out on his mother. There has already been one drug-addicted adult child of one of my aunts who has murdered said aunt, so my mom is really worried and now so am I.
My mom also told me that she herself has been having spells of forgetfulness and disorientation, which troubles me because she is only 55 and her mother started to have serious cognitive issues in her 60s. Despite having 10 kids, my grandmother ended up in a home at the age of 66 because no one could take on the burden of her care full-time. Granted, there were a ton of other health issues involved in my grandmother's case, but I'm still worried. My mother and I are not particularly close these days, but of course I love her. I'm trying not to worry too much about all this family stuff because there's not much I can do about it.
My talk with Rider earlier I already covered in my previous post. I love that man and his adorable sleeping face. It's also really awesome how spending time with Jasper kind of refreshes, in a way, my love for Rider. I just feel so glowy about both of them when I come home. It's nice.
My hike this morning was really good. I have this new friend group that I see every once in a while, and the friend I went hiking with, Val, is from that group. Oddly, the reason I know these people is because of Beckett. When Beckett visited back in October, he introduced me to his friend of 20 years, Elena. She, in turn, introduced me into this group of cool creatives. It was really good getting to know Val a bit better today. I really like her a lot. She also brought along a dog that she walks for friends sometimes, so I got to get some dog-love in. I love petting dogs and I love their smiley little dog-faces.
Last night the concert was really amazing, despite the fight Rider and I got into beforehand. The band is one of my favorites, and the tickets had been part of my Christmas present from Rider. Rider and I also had really, really good sex yesterday afternoon. It had been a few days just because we were both so busy. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
I also did some house chores yesterday that I'd been slacking on forever: vacuuming up the dust-bunnies in the corners, cleaning out the fridge, etc. It was all stuff I'd been too busy to do, and then too burned out and exhausted to do. My energy is finally returning.
I tried to take my wedding dress to the tailor to get it shortened, but the person had left at 1 p.m. The place recommended somewhere to me that is open outside of my work hours and close to my job, though, so I'm going to try to get it done tomorrow. Rider and I are taking Friday off to do a bunch of daytime wedding-related tasks: getting our marriage license, calling the park for the permit, and calling the bakery that is gonna make our little non-wedding-cake wedding cake.
Friday night was our houseparty show where we played for the first time with our new drummer. It went pretty well! And I got to see all my favorite friends: Oona and Toby were there (getting along for once) and Mel and Tina were there (and they just signed a lease on a place so I guess that is happening!). I'm so happy that Mel is staying in this part of the state. I was about to miss him if he moved back up north.
Most of the rest of the week was a blur of band practices in preparation for the show, visiting Jasper's cat, work, and various life administration tasks. But Tuesday was a bit different.
Tuesday, Hannah wanted to come to our neck of the woods and do happy hour with Rider and me, so we did. They get along really well as just platonic friends, so I am happy for them about that. I gotta say, though, as much as I still don't DISLIKE her, hanging out all evening just emphasized my feeling that she is just not one of "my peeps." She's never anything but nice to me, but we just don't vibe super well conversationally, and I felt like she kept saying oddly judgmental things about other people in her life that made me uncomfortable. That and she KEPT talking about the size of her boobs to the point where I was like, OK, yeah, big boobs, I get it. I know plenty of women with large tatas, and none mentions them so regularly. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It wasn't just my perception, either, I guess, because Rider told me later after she had gone home that she seems . . . different . . . in conversation with me than she is with him, and he can see why I might not really click well with her. It's not a big deal, to me, though. He and I do not need to have all the same friends. I'd even be fine if they wanted to fire a sexual component back up again at some point, as long as I didn't have to hang out with her for extended periods of time.
Last weekend was pretty good/interesting. I got paid over the weekend for my huge project, and I decided to reward myself with about $30 in cheese on Sunday. Rider and I got breakfast and then went to this high-end cheese shop where I bought tiny slices of 8 different fancy cheeses. That may have been the best $30 I ever spent. We ate it as I reserved hotels for our honeymoon and we half-watched the Oscars.
Saturday night was actually another cheese night. Rider had tickets to an event I didn't care to go to, and he and his music buddy Constance got all dressed up and went with a bunch of their fan club friends. I had happy hour with them and then was supposed to go out dancing with Oona, but she flaked on me so I put on lipstick and took myself out for a solo date: wine and cheese all by myself! Simon kept me company over IM. The expense of this evening is actually what prompted me to go find cheese the next day at non-restaurant prices.
Friday night was my night with Jasper. We had sex, then got Indian food, then went out for drinks with a couple friends of his that he's known for nine years. They are a couple who I guess are in an open relationship of sorts. At least, I know they are looking to try having a threesome, because they were bitching about how the chick they'd been supposed to meet that night had stood them up. I had a lot of fun with them (just in a friends way—no attraction there) and I think I may have since gotten the chick some freelance work with my company. She has also said she would join me sometime for taco happy hour on my way home, since her day job is not far from mine. I've been wanting someone to come eat cheap tacos with me at this place by my work, like, FOREVER. Their tacos are amazing and they have tons of good veggie options.
Anyway, I had a lot of fun with Jasper that night. We had more good sex again in the morning. I really liked spending social time with him and doing things other than just sex and then laziness, which is what we usually do. He was a bit stressed out because of conference things, though, so he was antsy for me to leave after we were out of bed so that he could get on with his trip preparation.
He texted me a bit during his trip. I think we missed each other. It was certainly good to be next to him again today.
The weekend prior to that, Rider and I were in Las Vegas for a concert. We stayed at Joel and Carrie's condo and had some fun double dates with them, as well as some just-us romantic moments. He'd never been there. It's not my favorite place, but it can be fun in a "what a spectacle!" sense. We had great Thai food and went to a cool (if waaaaay too smoky) punk bar. The concert was great too. Overall I had a really good time. I did come down with a cold afterward though.
What else am I missing?
Rider and I had our 3-year dating anniversary. He was sweet and got me a custom sentimental medallion thingie made, which I think I'm going to wear to the wedding. He's so good about little surprises for me. He also at some point last week brought me roses, wine, and truffles, just because.
We had a nice time for V-day. We went to happy hour on the actual day and then just were lazy at home because we didn't want to compete with the crowds. We had a great make-up Indian dinner that Thursday.
I've been going to political postcard-sending things that Elena has been setting up, whenever she has them. The weather has been terrible.
I guess that's pretty much it. I'm getting sleepy so I might just go to bed early. I was thinking of sex with Rider, but he is SO passed out that I don't think it's gonna happen. He and the cat are both sleeping so adorably. Yay for my tiny little family.
Rider is currently curled up next to me on the couch, snoozing away. His big plans for the evening were to take a THC pill and watch his wrestling pay-per-view. Now that it is over, he is napping.
My visit with Jasper was short but good he had dinner plans with a friend, so I was only over there for about two hours. We had (as always) incredible sex, then cuddles, and then he showed me some video games. He told me about the conference he was at all week, and how he made out with a hot guy at a party. We also played with his cat a bit. I returned his keys to him. I'd fed his cat for him this week while he was at the conference. I will probably not see him again till after I get back from my trip next weekend, but I told him I'd let him know if any schedule slots opened up.
I had a phone conversation with my mom this afternoon that was a bit worrisome. My aunt's batshit crazy 40-something son (with whom I am not on speaking terms) has been getting abusive with her and my mom is trying to get my aunt to move in with her. Apparently there was some kind of choking episode. The son has a serious drug problem and his wife just left him and took the kids, and so he's taking all his stuff out on his mother. There has already been one drug-addicted adult child of one of my aunts who has murdered said aunt, so my mom is really worried and now so am I.
My mom also told me that she herself has been having spells of forgetfulness and disorientation, which troubles me because she is only 55 and her mother started to have serious cognitive issues in her 60s. Despite having 10 kids, my grandmother ended up in a home at the age of 66 because no one could take on the burden of her care full-time. Granted, there were a ton of other health issues involved in my grandmother's case, but I'm still worried. My mother and I are not particularly close these days, but of course I love her. I'm trying not to worry too much about all this family stuff because there's not much I can do about it.
My talk with Rider earlier I already covered in my previous post. I love that man and his adorable sleeping face. It's also really awesome how spending time with Jasper kind of refreshes, in a way, my love for Rider. I just feel so glowy about both of them when I come home. It's nice.
My hike this morning was really good. I have this new friend group that I see every once in a while, and the friend I went hiking with, Val, is from that group. Oddly, the reason I know these people is because of Beckett. When Beckett visited back in October, he introduced me to his friend of 20 years, Elena. She, in turn, introduced me into this group of cool creatives. It was really good getting to know Val a bit better today. I really like her a lot. She also brought along a dog that she walks for friends sometimes, so I got to get some dog-love in. I love petting dogs and I love their smiley little dog-faces.
Last night the concert was really amazing, despite the fight Rider and I got into beforehand. The band is one of my favorites, and the tickets had been part of my Christmas present from Rider. Rider and I also had really, really good sex yesterday afternoon. It had been a few days just because we were both so busy. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
I also did some house chores yesterday that I'd been slacking on forever: vacuuming up the dust-bunnies in the corners, cleaning out the fridge, etc. It was all stuff I'd been too busy to do, and then too burned out and exhausted to do. My energy is finally returning.
I tried to take my wedding dress to the tailor to get it shortened, but the person had left at 1 p.m. The place recommended somewhere to me that is open outside of my work hours and close to my job, though, so I'm going to try to get it done tomorrow. Rider and I are taking Friday off to do a bunch of daytime wedding-related tasks: getting our marriage license, calling the park for the permit, and calling the bakery that is gonna make our little non-wedding-cake wedding cake.
Friday night was our houseparty show where we played for the first time with our new drummer. It went pretty well! And I got to see all my favorite friends: Oona and Toby were there (getting along for once) and Mel and Tina were there (and they just signed a lease on a place so I guess that is happening!). I'm so happy that Mel is staying in this part of the state. I was about to miss him if he moved back up north.
Most of the rest of the week was a blur of band practices in preparation for the show, visiting Jasper's cat, work, and various life administration tasks. But Tuesday was a bit different.
Tuesday, Hannah wanted to come to our neck of the woods and do happy hour with Rider and me, so we did. They get along really well as just platonic friends, so I am happy for them about that. I gotta say, though, as much as I still don't DISLIKE her, hanging out all evening just emphasized my feeling that she is just not one of "my peeps." She's never anything but nice to me, but we just don't vibe super well conversationally, and I felt like she kept saying oddly judgmental things about other people in her life that made me uncomfortable. That and she KEPT talking about the size of her boobs to the point where I was like, OK, yeah, big boobs, I get it. I know plenty of women with large tatas, and none mentions them so regularly. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It wasn't just my perception, either, I guess, because Rider told me later after she had gone home that she seems . . . different . . . in conversation with me than she is with him, and he can see why I might not really click well with her. It's not a big deal, to me, though. He and I do not need to have all the same friends. I'd even be fine if they wanted to fire a sexual component back up again at some point, as long as I didn't have to hang out with her for extended periods of time.
Last weekend was pretty good/interesting. I got paid over the weekend for my huge project, and I decided to reward myself with about $30 in cheese on Sunday. Rider and I got breakfast and then went to this high-end cheese shop where I bought tiny slices of 8 different fancy cheeses. That may have been the best $30 I ever spent. We ate it as I reserved hotels for our honeymoon and we half-watched the Oscars.
Saturday night was actually another cheese night. Rider had tickets to an event I didn't care to go to, and he and his music buddy Constance got all dressed up and went with a bunch of their fan club friends. I had happy hour with them and then was supposed to go out dancing with Oona, but she flaked on me so I put on lipstick and took myself out for a solo date: wine and cheese all by myself! Simon kept me company over IM. The expense of this evening is actually what prompted me to go find cheese the next day at non-restaurant prices.
Friday night was my night with Jasper. We had sex, then got Indian food, then went out for drinks with a couple friends of his that he's known for nine years. They are a couple who I guess are in an open relationship of sorts. At least, I know they are looking to try having a threesome, because they were bitching about how the chick they'd been supposed to meet that night had stood them up. I had a lot of fun with them (just in a friends way—no attraction there) and I think I may have since gotten the chick some freelance work with my company. She has also said she would join me sometime for taco happy hour on my way home, since her day job is not far from mine. I've been wanting someone to come eat cheap tacos with me at this place by my work, like, FOREVER. Their tacos are amazing and they have tons of good veggie options.
Anyway, I had a lot of fun with Jasper that night. We had more good sex again in the morning. I really liked spending social time with him and doing things other than just sex and then laziness, which is what we usually do. He was a bit stressed out because of conference things, though, so he was antsy for me to leave after we were out of bed so that he could get on with his trip preparation.
He texted me a bit during his trip. I think we missed each other. It was certainly good to be next to him again today.
The weekend prior to that, Rider and I were in Las Vegas for a concert. We stayed at Joel and Carrie's condo and had some fun double dates with them, as well as some just-us romantic moments. He'd never been there. It's not my favorite place, but it can be fun in a "what a spectacle!" sense. We had great Thai food and went to a cool (if waaaaay too smoky) punk bar. The concert was great too. Overall I had a really good time. I did come down with a cold afterward though.
What else am I missing?
Rider and I had our 3-year dating anniversary. He was sweet and got me a custom sentimental medallion thingie made, which I think I'm going to wear to the wedding. He's so good about little surprises for me. He also at some point last week brought me roses, wine, and truffles, just because.
We had a nice time for V-day. We went to happy hour on the actual day and then just were lazy at home because we didn't want to compete with the crowds. We had a great make-up Indian dinner that Thursday.
I've been going to political postcard-sending things that Elena has been setting up, whenever she has them. The weather has been terrible.
I guess that's pretty much it. I'm getting sleepy so I might just go to bed early. I was thinking of sex with Rider, but he is SO passed out that I don't think it's gonna happen. He and the cat are both sleeping so adorably. Yay for my tiny little family.
Reverie
Active member
OK, so, not much time so bullet points, but updates!
- Monday: Mostly just learned new songs for our band with Rider.
- Tuesday: Rider went to a concert with Joel. I hung out with the chick friend I met a couple weeks ago through Jasper. We did happy hour and ate tacos and nachos. Later Jasper met us out and then he and I went back to his place after she went home. We got a little more sexually adventurous than we had to that point, venturing into the realm of Butt Stuff for the first time.
- Wednesday: Rider and I lay around cuddling and chatting for a long while before band practice. We decided that our new Special Thing to replace fluid bonding being exclusive would be to get a smotherbox built for us as a wedding present to ourselves, and to have that one very specific thing be for us alone. We were getting very exciting talking about it. I was also, of course, stoked to finally have completed our negotiations about the fluid-bonding conditions.
- Thursday: I was supposed to go see Oona and then stop off and see Jasper on my way home. But Oona was sick with a stomach thing, so she canceled on me. And Jasper was super late getting out of the movie he went to, so we had less than an hour to hang out. We did get some sexytimes in, though. It was really, really nice not having to worry about the condoms. I was still bleeding a little, it wasn't ideal, but it was still good.
- Friday: Rider and I took the day off work to go take care of our marriage license stuff. After that, we went to a diner and had pie and coffee for a late breakfast, then walked around a farmer's market. Then we went home and did a bunch of chores, then headed out for our weekend trip to the park where we are getting married. The plan was to scope a ceremony location and have Perry take pictures so we could choose one for our announcement. When we got to the town where the park is located, we unpacked and then went out for karaoke, then returned to have motel sex and go to sleep.
- Saturday: We woke up on the early side and met Perry and his new girlfriend for breakfast. Afterward, we tromped around the park for hours, taking lots of photos and scrambling over boulders. I can't wait to see the shots Perry got and choose the winner for our announcements! Then we had Mexican dinner and went back to their hotel with them to hang in the hot tub for a while before going back to our own hotel and having some fun playtime with toys. Rider dressed up in lingerie for me, and I had a lot of fun using our glass toy on him.
- Today: We met up with our friends again and did a really cool art tour through the desert, shooting a ton of pictures again. Then we came home and Rider gave me a killer massage because I was sore from all the rock scrambling. I'm going to sleep in a few minutes—exhausted after all that sun and driving.
I HAVE A BUSY WEEK AHEAD!
- Tomorrow: I'm supposed to spend the evening with Jasper. VERY excited about this. We did a bit of texting over the weekend making plans and kind of winding each other up.
- Tuesday: I'm going to a postcard thing with Elena to prepare for the Ides of Trump. I also have to pick up my newly shortened dress, which is at the tailor, for the wedding.
- Wednesday: Rider and I have set aside some time for online shopping for our actual wedding rings.
- Thursday: I've rescheduled with Oona.
There are so many small wedding-related tasks I need to do coming up—all this even though we aren't doing much of a "real" wedding. I still need to call the bakery that will be making our little non-wedding-cake wedding cake and get the park permit and order the shuttle tickets for the airports for the honeymoon and get the vacation hold for our mail and handle all the announcement stuff. THIS THING IS LESS THAN A MONTH AWAY! And we couldn't be happier.
- Monday: Mostly just learned new songs for our band with Rider.
- Tuesday: Rider went to a concert with Joel. I hung out with the chick friend I met a couple weeks ago through Jasper. We did happy hour and ate tacos and nachos. Later Jasper met us out and then he and I went back to his place after she went home. We got a little more sexually adventurous than we had to that point, venturing into the realm of Butt Stuff for the first time.
- Wednesday: Rider and I lay around cuddling and chatting for a long while before band practice. We decided that our new Special Thing to replace fluid bonding being exclusive would be to get a smotherbox built for us as a wedding present to ourselves, and to have that one very specific thing be for us alone. We were getting very exciting talking about it.
I was also, of course, stoked to finally have completed our negotiations about the fluid-bonding conditions.- Thursday: I was supposed to go see Oona and then stop off and see Jasper on my way home. But Oona was sick with a stomach thing, so she canceled on me. And Jasper was super late getting out of the movie he went to, so we had less than an hour to hang out. We did get some sexytimes in, though. It was really, really nice not having to worry about the condoms. I was still bleeding a little, it wasn't ideal, but it was still good.
- Friday: Rider and I took the day off work to go take care of our marriage license stuff. After that, we went to a diner and had pie and coffee for a late breakfast, then walked around a farmer's market. Then we went home and did a bunch of chores, then headed out for our weekend trip to the park where we are getting married. The plan was to scope a ceremony location and have Perry take pictures so we could choose one for our announcement. When we got to the town where the park is located, we unpacked and then went out for karaoke, then returned to have motel sex and go to sleep.
- Saturday: We woke up on the early side and met Perry and his new girlfriend for breakfast. Afterward, we tromped around the park for hours, taking lots of photos and scrambling over boulders. I can't wait to see the shots Perry got and choose the winner for our announcements! Then we had Mexican dinner and went back to their hotel with them to hang in the hot tub for a while before going back to our own hotel and having some fun playtime with toys. Rider dressed up in lingerie for me, and I had a lot of fun using our glass toy on him.
- Today: We met up with our friends again and did a really cool art tour through the desert, shooting a ton of pictures again. Then we came home and Rider gave me a killer massage because I was sore from all the rock scrambling. I'm going to sleep in a few minutes—exhausted after all that sun and driving.
I HAVE A BUSY WEEK AHEAD!
- Tomorrow: I'm supposed to spend the evening with Jasper. VERY excited about this. We did a bit of texting over the weekend making plans and kind of winding each other up.
- Tuesday: I'm going to a postcard thing with Elena to prepare for the Ides of Trump. I also have to pick up my newly shortened dress, which is at the tailor, for the wedding.
- Wednesday: Rider and I have set aside some time for online shopping for our actual wedding rings.
- Thursday: I've rescheduled with Oona.
There are so many small wedding-related tasks I need to do coming up—all this even though we aren't doing much of a "real" wedding. I still need to call the bakery that will be making our little non-wedding-cake wedding cake and get the park permit and order the shuttle tickets for the airports for the honeymoon and get the vacation hold for our mail and handle all the announcement stuff. THIS THING IS LESS THAN A MONTH AWAY! And we couldn't be happier.