Polyamory and STDs

Polybipe

Polybipe

New member
For the past 5 years I have been in a poly relationship with a wonderful woman.

My wife of 21 years has been with the same male for 7 years.

We are all tested for STDs and none of us have any other sexual partners. In other words we have a closed boundary poly arrangement.

If any of us were wanting to include another person into our poly arrangement, that person would also have to be tested. If that person had another sexual partner, then that person would also have to be tested... an so on. This is necessary to ensure that everyone involved is STD free and remains that way.

A couple of questions on this arrangement:

1. Is there a simple concise way or a common term to describe our arrangement?

2. How common is this type of arrangement?

3. Without such precautions, how do others avoid exposing their partners to STDs via exposure to partners of partners?

Thanks!
 
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Let me get this straight. Say you want to become involved with another woman. She has a male partner and a female partner. Male has 2 partners, who each have two partners, female has 3 partners who have multiple partners, and so on.

How far out are you expecting testing to occur? Do you require documentation? How recent is recent enough or does it need to be directly before your involvement?
 
Polybipe said:
For the past 5 years I have been in a poly relationship with a wonderful woman. My wife of 21 years has been with the same male for 7 years.

We are all tested for STDs and none of us have any other sexual partners. In other words we have a closed boundary poly arrangement.

If any of us were wanting to include another person into our poly arrangement, that person would also have to be tested. If that person had another sexual partner, then that person would also have to be tested... an so on. This is necessary to ensure that everyone involved is STD free and remains that way.

A couple of questions on this arrangement:

1. Is there a simple concise way or a common term to describe our arrangement?

Some people call this polyfidelity, where no one in a given group has any outside sexual partners. If you search on polyfidelity here, you will find discussions about it.

2. How common is this type of arrangement?

I have no idea. I think many people assume this kind of arrangement will protect them from diseases and/or emotional/mental pain so I wonder if it is more common than many people might assume.

3. Without such precautions, how do others avoid exposing their partners to STDs via exposure to partners of partners?

Thanks!
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I've been thinking about how to reply to Question 3 above. What it comes down to is that you cannot control what other people do. You can, ultimately, only control yourself. You can ask for what you want and need from others. And it is up to them to see if that is something they can agree to.

So, it is not uncommon to ask metamours (partners of our partners) to be tested before or during a sexual relationship. Many people are ok with this as a sensible precaution and a reasonable thing to ask. However, asking people beyond that level of connection to test - especially if you are not involved with them - gets complicated and quickly impractical, to my mind. (This is all my definition of 'reasonable. Others will likely differ.) So for example, John is sexual/romantic partners with Tom. John is also seeing Bunny and Tom is also dating Jerry. It's not unreasonable to ask Bunny and Jerry to be tested prior or during sexual contact with John and Tom. But let's say Bunny is seeing Waldorf and Jerry is FWBs with Sylvia. If John or Tom ask Waldorf and Sylvia to be tested, to me, that's intrusive and controlling. If Bunny or Jerry ask Waldorf and Sylvia to test, as immediate partners, that makes sense to me. (Again, my thoughts - others will likely have other ideas.) I personally would hate that. To my mind, it's reasonable for partners to have an agreement that they will ask other partners to be tested, or have recent results. It's not reasonable, or practical, to extend that 'chain' to beyond metamours.

So instead of trying to control the actions of others, I suggest thinking hard about what levels of risk you are willing to take. Learn how common diseases are and what consequences they may cause. And take into account, your personal circumstances. And then talk it over, a lot, with your partners.

The CDC (cdc.gov) is helpful and I find the American Sexual Health Association (http://www.ashasexualhealth.org/) to be reliable and informative.

For example, someone with a suppressed immune system may be more concerned about getting HSV-1 (cold sores). Most adults (around 80%) in the US have cold sores, usually from childhood exposure. It's rarely a problem in causing any issue beyond an embarrassing mouth sore for most people. (The exceptions being the immune suppressed and pregnant women who risk passing it to their infants through vaginal birth - this can be very bad for the infant.) HIV is relatively uncommon (in comparison in numbers of other STIs) but the consequences of infection can be devastating. Gonorrhea is common and while not usually life-threatening, it can destroy fertility. HPV is ridiculously common. There are hundreds of different strains of HPV. Some cause various cancers, some cause warts and most just hang out in the body and do nothing noticeable at all as far as we can tell. There is no test for male-bodied people and the tests for female bodied people rely on checking for abnormal cells in pap smears.

It all depends on your personal circumstances and what levels of risk you are willing to take. There is always some level of risk, even if you don't have sex with anyone. (HSV-1 and HSV-2 - genital herpes - are spread by skin-to-skin touch. No sexual contact is necessary although it's an obvious and common vector.) Learn the actual risks of each disease, how it's transmitted (some are by fluid contact like syphilis or HIV, some are by skin to ski touch (HSV, HPV), and how it may impact you.

Also, finally, spoilers! Even applying the scenario you discuss above - everyone in the 'chain' gets tested, that is no guarantee that you will not be exposed to something. People cheat in poly relationships. Sometimes there are false negatives or the doctor didn't test for 'everything'. (Many doctors don't test for herpes because it is so ridiculously common and usually very minor in health impact). Sometimes a recent test may be done just before someone is exposed and so miss it. Viruses (and bacteria, fungus, and other tiny disgusting things) happen.
 
opalescent said:
Also, finally, spoilers! Even applying the scenario you discuss above - everyone in the 'chain' gets tested, that is no guarantee that you will not be exposed to something. People cheat in poly relationships. Sometimes there are false negatives or the doctor didn't test for 'everything'. (Many doctors don't test for herpes because it is so ridiculously common and usually very minor in health impact). Sometimes a recent test may be done just before someone is exposed and so miss it. Viruses (and bacteria, fungus, and other tiny disgusting things) happen.
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Also, it's possible to carry HPV for years and not be aware that you're carrying it. So, even if no one is cheating, it's possible for one of the females to suddenly test positive via papsmear.
 
Thank you for the well thought out answers. This really hasn't been a concern for us for many years since our secondary partners did not have other sexual relationships.

Incidentally, prior to these partners, one my partners contracted HSV-2 (outbreaks) from someone she was seeing. This was enough to cause quite a bit of stress dealing with how that affected the various people in the various relationships, not to mention not knowing if it got passed on to anyone else, and then having to wait many months for any meaningful testing past an incubation period. :( Stressful to say the least. :(

Thanks again for the replies.
 
Polybipe said:
Thank you for the well thought out answers. This really hasn't been a concern for us for many years since our secondary partners did not have other sexual relationships.

Incidentally, prior to these partners, one my partners contracted HSV-2 (outbreaks) from someone she was seeing. This was enough to cause quite a bit of stress dealing with how that affected the various people in the various relationships, not to mention not knowing if it got passed on to anyone else, and then having to wait many months for any meaningful testing past an incubation period. :( Stressful to say the least. :(

Thanks again for the replies.
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I have done my homework bigtime when it comes to HSV, because a close family member has had it for a very long time (she told me all about it beginning when I was 14) and because other friends, including some in my extended sexual networks, have had it.

The bottom line is that HSV is a tricky little bastard of a virus.

If a person is not symptomatic, then they might not be contagious. Except if they are. Sometimes they are. Especially for a while before and after an "outbreak."

(OK can I just say right here and now that I hate the words, "herpes" and "outbreak." It is my own opinion that they make the condition sound worse than what it is, unless every one of almost a dozen HSV+ people I've known have lied to me about the reality of living with it. I prefer "HSV 1/2" and "symptoms" or "symptomatic." I'll never in my life forget my beloved family member crying when rejected by someone she had become emotionally attached to, for disclosing honestly about her virus. The stigma makes me angry.)

So anyways. A person is maybe contagious, maybe not.

If one catches it, one can go for many years (an unknown length of time) with no symptoms. And if you never have symptoms, then a blood test cannot flag positive. This is because the virus doesn't live in the blood. I forget whether it lives in the skin or nerve or fat cells...but it doesn't float about in the blood. What the test is checking for, isn't the virus, but the antibodies from your immune system trying to fight off symptoms. So no symptoms = no positive test.

And...people who are positive, can test false negative, on account of having not experienced any actual symptoms yet. For possibly years.

I always ask my doctor to do a full panel of all STI tests when I get them done at all, including both kinds of HSV. And I have asked her why HSV is not usually part of the regular panel of tests. She said that there is a high prevalence of both false positives, AND false negatives, and the virus is extremely common and considered to be minor by professionals in her practice. She said, "Yeah, everybody's got it more or less, but if you tell them they don't, then they think they don't need protection. They you have people risking getting and spreading other things. Better to just leave it alone. Also it's more work for the lab, for an unreliable test."

Well then.

Thing is, if you look it up online, just like if you look at say, images of any skin disorder, you're gonna get this horror show of awfulness. But every single person I've ever talked to about this, from the family member when I was young, to a friend in the kink scene who is "out" to everyone (she has it on her fetlife profile)... They report something like a large pimple appearing every several months. One told me it takes his a few days, with Neosporin, to go away. Another told me hers stick around for up to a couple of weeks. One said he hadn't had a symptom in years.

(It is an odd facet of my life, because I'm an oversharer, others feel comfortable telling me all sorts of things about themselves. I get probably more honest disclosure than most people, and I know hundreds of people, so my anecdotal sample sizes are usually higher, I think, than many people might experience...)

Point being, from everything I've ever been told, it's more of a minor skin disease than anything, only really a problem if you give birth really, the worst part about it is the stigma "what people think" which is often false and rather ignorant, and the tests can't really give you a definitive answer.

Oh, and HSV-1? Cold sores? You can so get those on your junk. And plenty of folks have thought they had HSV-2, only to find out it's actually a genital case of HSV-1.

So frankly, in times of my life where I was...shall we say, sluttier... I was simply rolling the dice and hoping I didn't catch anything. I was not under illusions of safety. Some partners were riskier than others, and at least plenty of my numbers were virgins or low risk. The one thing I did was to get tested somewhat often so at least I'd know if I caught something. Protection helps, but even then, it's not absolute.

How do you stay safe? You don't. You take your chances, if you play the game, and manage your risk as best you can, to whatever level you need to, for your own comfort and that of your partners.

But in life, absolute guarantees are pretty hard to come by...
 
"3. Without such precautions, how do others avoid exposing their partners to STDs via exposure to partners of partners?"

I'm only fluid bonded with my primary partner, and we use barrier protection with everybody else.
 
Spork said:
How do you stay safe? You don't. You take your chances, if you play the game, and manage your risk as best you can, to whatever level you need to, for your own comfort and that of your partners.

But in life, absolute guarantees are pretty hard to come by...
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This. And ITA with everything Spork said about HSV. Immediately after my divorce, I was with a man who was HSV2+. He didn't tell me he was positive until after we stopped seeing each other. I asked my GP and my gyn to test me....neither one wanted to test me, for all the reasons Spork listed. I have been tested twice (at my insistence), both times negative. I haven't had any symptoms (that I know of, obviously, if a woman has a lesion in her vagina, she may not be aware of it.) No guarantee that I don't have the virus.

I've also known a handful of people who had HSV, starting with my health teacher in high school. They've all said the same thing, the first outbreak may/may not be painful. Future symptoms were less severe. I know a few people on valtrex who have been asymptomatic for years. It's usually only really an issue when giving birth, or if the person is immune deficient (inherited disorder, HIV, on chemo/radiation, etc.) And while condoms may decrease the transmission, they will not prevent it.

I find HPV much more concerning. But, again, you can't do much about it because men won't generally know they're positive unless a female partner tests positive. Most sexually active people have had at least one strain at some point (usually without knowing it.) I was positive for a couple years after my divorce. Practitioner said I could have picked it up post divorce, or even been carrying it since pre-marriage days. No way to know. And, like HSV, a condom may reduce the transmission but will not prevent it.

Funny that I feel slutty saying all that....and yet, my number of partners is relatively low. Social conditioning, lol.
 
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PinkPig said:
This. And ITA with everything Spork said about HSV. Immediately after my divorce, I was with a man who was HSV2+. He didn't tell me he was positive until after we stopped seeing each other. I asked my GP and my gyn to test me....neither one wanted to test me, for all the reasons Spork listed. I have been tested twice (at my insistence), both times negative. I haven't had any symptoms (that I know of, obviously, if a woman has a lesion in her vagina, she may not be aware of it.) No guarantee that I don't have the virus.

I've also known a handful of people who had HSV, starting with my health teacher in high school. They've all said the same thing, the first outbreak may/may not be painful. Future symptoms were less severe. I know a few people on valtrex who have been asymptomatic for years. It's usually only really an issue when giving birth, or if the person is immune deficient (inherited disorder, HIV, on chemo/radiation, etc.) And while condoms may decrease the transmission, they will not prevent it.

I find HPV much more concerning. But, again, you can't do much about it because men won't generally know they're positive unless a female partner tests positive. Most sexually active people have had at least one strain at some point (usually without knowing it.) I was positive for a couple years after my divorce. Practitioner said I could have picked it up post divorce, or even been carrying it since pre-marriage days. No way to know. And, like HSV, a condom may reduce the transmission but will not prevent it.

Funny that I feel slutty saying all that....and yet, my number of partners is relatively low. Social conditioning, lol.
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And my number of partners is fairly high, but last time I was tested for the full run of STI's, which was in January, I was negative across the board. Yet I don't take for granted my status where HSV in particular is concerned. I am thankful that the tests for conditions that can actually kill you (treatable or not) are more reliable. I'd hate to catch something that could be life threatening, and not know, even after a significant period of time. But at least HSV isn't really a huge big deal, so if tests cannot tell me for absolutely sure, then the sky won't fall and the world won't stop turning. Of course like anyone I think it would be preferable to not have any STI, but after the chances I have taken in my lifetime I find a clear panel of tests a little stunning. I suppose part of me feels like I have tempted fate and been TOO lucky to believe, too good to be true, as it were.

Also, skin is skin and sometimes you get odd little flaws and blemishes, everything from regular warts, moles, pimples, skin tags, ingrown hairs, to sores related to bacteria like staph, are all possible. It's always good to get checked if you notice something, but not everything is an STI.

For instance, I thought I had HPV when I was 15, I had what my GYN said looked it, but it went away and later when I was offered a blood test to detect it (they didn't have the test, or didn't offer it to me, back in 1994)...I always tested negative for that. So I never did find out wtf was going on at that time, and I'll probably never know. Whatever it was, has not presented again or flagged on any test, in all the years since.

But see, if I got a wart on my hand or a pimple on my face or a mole or imperfection anywhere else, I wouldn't be going insane over it. It's just if anything shows up THERE, one is inclined to be all "omg what is that??" Of course I'm not saying that one should not be seen and tested for any concerns, better safe than sorry for sure, but hey...talk about social conditioning?

And that's why when I look at the real life reality of what HSV does, I get so pissed off at people who act like it's dirty, disgusting, or horrendous...no, it's really not. And I've also never understood why, if getting cold sores, which actually show up on the face and advertise themselves to the whole damn world, but can be transmitted by means other than sexual contact...frankly I think that would be worse, than having HSV-2, which no one but you and your partners and doctors need to know about if you've got it, it's not right out on your face. That part never made any kind of logical sense to me. But I think it's our culture's stigma around sex in general and all the reasons to abstain and the education we get, puts this whole "dirty" ideology in place around anything specifically to do with it. Which unfortunately also has the effect of making people not want to talk about it, out of shame and fear of social stigmas. Which then means that potential partners even if they have something and know it...might have a harder time honestly disclosing, than if we could just talk about this shit like respectful and reasonable adults.

So.
PinkPig, I don't think it's slutty in the slightest to talk frankly about sexual health. Of course my idea of what constitutes "slutty" has more to do with certain behavior, than partner count or sexual health anyways... A person has to be a drunken "girls gone wild" sort with a fake valley girl accent to even begin to register as "slutty" in a bad way to me, but lol...that's just me, I guess.
 
HSV2 symptoms can be pretty severe, though I've only personally known of one case like that. I've had 3 partners (that I know of) that had it. I was fluid bonded with two of them. I still managed to test negative.

I enter into agreements with my partners. What they tell me about their agreements with their other partners does enter into it, but I don't ask to see tests of my metas. I trust my partners to be honest with me.
 
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