When can you trust that it is love and not NRE?

M

MsEmotional

Member
So I have read a lot on here about the difference between NRE and love. Most of the time it is someone saying, "don't confuse NRE with love" or "what you are experiencing is intense NRE, not love."

I have also read that NRE can last anywhere from 2 months to 3 years! If that is true, how does one ever know the difference? How do you know when you have transitioned from NRE to love? I proposed to my husband when we had been dating for about a year -- was I "in the throes of NRE"? Should I have waited 3 years before trusting that I was in love with him and not just in NRE?

What confuses me most is that people explain NRE as being a biochemical state of mind. But isn't love a biochemical state of mind too? Aren't all emotions basically a combination of neurotransmitters and hormones? What makes NRE "not love" and, if it really isn't love, then what IS love? And how do you know when you can trust that your feelings are really love?
 
It's a good question. I've been practicing poly for 8 1/2 years. I have experienced NRE many many times. Love only 3 times.

NRE usually lasts 12 months. 6-18 months is the usual range. If a person says she has it after 3 years, she just has a great relationship with her partner lol

During NRE, we don't know our partner very well. NRE can make us feel we've "known them forever" when we actually, of course, do not.

NRE makes us very horny (usually). If we could, we'd bang them every day, if not multiple times a day. When I am in NRE, I want to fuck my partner the minute he or she walks through the door.

During NRE, we idealise our partner. We put our own best foot forward too. We are courting and wooing each other. Trying to impress.

We have romantic dates every time we meet. Besides the frequent intense sex, we may spend hours talking and holding hands, those romantic dinners, long walks in the woods or on the beach, going to parks, museums, sightseeing trips, road trips.

Basically, we are starry-eyed. We see our partner through rose colored glasses.

Long distance relationships are common in poly. So, NRE can seem to last longer. Distance makes the heart grow fonder. When we finally get to be together in meat space, we have tons of sex, romance, etc., for the brief time we are actually together.

Some people marry in the first rush of NRE (before a year has gone by). This was super common 50 years ago... you shouldn't have sex before marriage, so some people would marry during NRE and later find out the relationship really wasn't all that great.

Nowadays many people move in together during NRE. This is also a mistake.

"True love" grows over time, when you've had a chance to relax and really be yourself, warts and all. When you've juggled job stresses or job loss, and kids and family needs and illness and household catastrophes and all that hard stuff. When you've shared joys and grief and been a good dependable support for each other.
 
To me, love isn't the part that keeps you up at night or gives you a lovesick stomach ache or makes your heart pound with nervous tension. That's the NRE. Love doesn't wear off. Growing familiarity doesn't diminish it, though inattention can. It's a harmonious connection, a balance of vulnerability and trust, a dedication to mutual support, a depth of caring sprinkled with grace notes of attraction. It is mundane, and transcendent, and silly and lovely and magical.

But it is foremost a verb and not a romantic ideal. You share love by loving someone. By picking up the slack for them when they're sick, and celebrating their victories and consoling them in their losses. By maintaining an awareness of their needs and being willing to participate in hard conversations with them. It's not all sex and roses. :)
 
When we "fall in love", I believe we are head over heels and will go out of our way to do things for the other person, but a lot of what we envisage that person to be can be a fantasy. We often feel like we know them really well, like a "soul mate", even after only meeting them a few times. The paradox here is that after dating for a few months or years, we may no longer think we know them at all. I think this is because when we are "falling in love", we are projecting a fantasy of ours onto the person we "love". We don't really know them, but we think we do. It's a fantasy. A projection clouded by a hormone bucket of biased emotions. I feel that our need to do things to please them actually revolve around our own pleasure and our own attainment of the fantasy. We may make large sacrifices, but we do it because we feel better at the end, be it because of their smile, their affection or just an additional "feel good" of endorphin rush that adds to the "falling in love feelings".

When we "grow in love", I believe this happens later in the relationship, years down the track. As the endorphins and euphoria wear off, we start to really understand the strengths and weaknesses of our significant other. We see how they act under pressure, or when there is no reward or coercion. We see "the real" them - both the good and the bad. The fantasy is shed for reality. The things we do and the sacrifices we make for them at this stage, are truly for them, and no longer revolve around our own pleasure. Many of the things we do for loved ones at this stage are actual sacrifices, and sometimes very difficult.

We use the same word 'love', but I think it's two different emotions. After all, I love my family but I don't want to bang them. There's a bigger talk of it over here but I suspect you've seen that thread already.
 
I don't think it is as clearly defined as people are making it out to be.

Even after 20 years my wife and I still did everything Mags attributed to NRE. We moved in together about 3 months after we started dating. (We did know each other for a little over a year before we started dating, but had no romantic interest during that time.)

The last time I felt NRE I still managed to keep my wits about me...lol. While I was enjoying the time we had together, I knew it wouldn't last forever. We do love each other but it is not meant to be.

Basically, nobody is perfect. The important thing is to recognize whether or not you are truly seeing the other person for who they really are. NRE can distort your perception of them. I don't believe there is a clear cut-off point between NRE and 'actual love'.
 
Maybe NRE is an early stage of love. In other words, there isn't some sudden point where NRE stops and love starts. Rather, one blends into the other.
 
My household had "the thousand-hour rule." Not science, but borne out of experience, & we all agreed it's about what we remembered.

Roughly a thousand hours together -- not merely happening to be at the same party or that sort of thing, yet OTOH maybe being out in public with plenty of ability to do the dyad stuff -- seemed to be about the point NRE waned. That included sex of course, & also simply sleeping together. Until that region, we encouraged each other (& ourselves) to treat it as just a fun thing.

Somewhere in my collection is a book I cannot find, & this is really bugging me. Anyway, the author is a Rogerian therapist. She described what we called the isinglass problem. Has anyone ever held a chunk of mica? It's a really weird rock: thin layers of transparent silicate. A century ago, it was commonly used as the viewport in the doors of wood-burning stoves. It was sometimes miscalled "isinglass."

When you have a chunk of mica that's like 2 mm thick, it's silvery. The author said that when we first "fall in love," we think we're looking at the person, but what we're actually seeing is a distorted image of ourself -- which of course (monkeys that we are) we find attractive because it's self-affirming. And as time goes on, one thin layer after another peels away, showing us more & more of the actual other person.

We wonder what the hell happened to the person we "fell in love" with -- which was ourself :)rolleyes:) -- & then blame the hapless other for misleading us.

(Anyone who's used the Tarot might recognize this from XIX. ;) If so, drop me a note. Hints: the sunflower is NOT intelligent; the lovers gaze raptly at each other, neither aware that the other is a beautiful mask, a hollow shell.)

FWIW, I am certain I fell in love with Anna at least FIVE times in 12 years. Between those reinvigorations, I was merely :)rolleyes:) pleased to be so often side-by-side with her.
 
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vinsanity0 said:
I don't think it is as clearly defined as people are making it out to be.
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I agree.

Even from the chemical point of view, there are some stages to being in love. I think I've read that the very first infatuation is about 3 months, and it's a second stage which is 3-24 months or something.

IMHO there's a continuum; and IMHO romantic NRE-like feelings can and should be revived even in older relationships.

Look at the relationship(s) you've had previously. Did you notice having rosy colored glasses in the beginning? How long did it take to get out of some initial illusions? How long did it take for you to start feeling like your relationship is a stable long-term thing?
I think your past experience is your best guide. I know that for me "NRE" is rather long, it's the third year that brings some qualitative change to the relationship.
 
Tinwen said:
I agree.

Even from the chemical point of view, there are some stages to being in love. I think I've read that the very first infatuation is about 3 months, and it's a second stage which is 3-24 months or something.

IMHO there's a continuum; and IMHO romantic NRE-like feelings can and should be revived even in older relationships.

Look at the relationship(s) you've had previously. Did you notice having rosy colored glasses in the beginning? How long did it take to get out of some initial illusions? How long did it take for you to start feeling like your relationship is a stable long-term thing?
I think your past experience is your best guide. I know that for me "NRE" is rather long, it's the third year that brings some qualitative change to the relationship.
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The trouble for me is that I had very few relationships before now. My husband is someone I was friends with for years before we ever got together. All my other relationships ended at 3-4 months -- so basically we most likely never got past the NRE stage.
 
MsEmotional said:
The trouble for me is that I had very few relationships before now. My husband is someone I was friends with for years before we ever got together. All my other relationships ended at 3-4 months -- so basically we most likely never got past the NRE stage.
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Well then -- just be mindful and "mind the gap" by not doing life-changing commitments in the first year or so ;) You'll have more experience next time.
I haven't had that many relationships either, but the 3 longer ones I've had do seem to follow a pattern.
 
I think for me, deep down, there has always been a piece of me that has known when it 'wasn't really right' and while I purposefully ignored that to enjoy the NRE, I wasn't shocked or surprised (still hurt though) when things ended. Like, I could enjoy the falling in love and the NRE, but knew the person wasn't right for me.

I can't say that's 100% of the time - my not that long ago breakup with my ex-gf was unexpected and sudden, because I definitely less purposefully ignored the signs for the blinded feeling - in general, when I put my heart into someone my heart is truly there.

HOWEVER, I definitely agree there is a starry-eyed honeymoon phase to things and in the beginning you do want to spend more time together because it's new and different and you want to get to know them. That's the only way to get down past those 'layers' in the first place.
 
vinsanity0 said:
I don't think it is as clearly defined as people are making it out to be.
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I don't see a particular problem with a lack of precision here. We are after all talking about a phenomenon that applies to a HUGE range of people with a wide range of previous personal experiences & all sorts of other life variables as well.

I've described NRE as "drinking five cups of Kenya AA: really pleasant getting there but so jittery that I'm not very useful to anyone."

My belief (experience, really) is that it's not a relationship until crisis is faced & fixed as a team. The NRE-sotted I've seen over the years tend to be some combination of conflict-avoidant, skilled at denial, ready to sweep anything under the rug, & able to repeat the same crisis multiple times yet pretend each instance is unique. (This behavior also establishes a pattern for longterm interaction after NRE wanes.)

Meanwhile, people in an actual relationship like to actually repair the broken stuff because life is so much easier/happier that way. After a little experience with NRE, they learn to not let the giddiness override common sense.

It's nice that people have been able to navigate whirlwind romances -- moving in together, buying a house, getting married, popping out babies, moving halfway 'round the world. However, a few successes DOES NOT mean that such leaps should be recommended, particularly fobbed off on people with very little relationship experience.
 
Ravenscroft said:
My belief (experience, really) is that it's not a relationship until crisis is faced & fixed as a team. The NRE-sotted I've seen over the years tend to be some combination of conflict-avoidant, skilled at denial, ready to sweep anything under the rug, & able to repeat the same crisis multiple times yet pretend each instance is unique. (This behavior also establishes a pattern for longterm interaction after NRE wanes.)
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That's an interesting definition of relationships. I'm not convinced that it's accurate, because sometimes there just ... isn't crisis. This is something that perpetually surprises me in my relationship with Artist, actually - we've had a few disagreements or misunderstandings here and there, but crisis? Nah. And I'm not going to say something that's been a thing for 2.5 years is "not a relationship". (I am, to some degree, STILL waiting for the NRE to wear off, I admit, but begin to think it's just not going to.)
 
icesong said:
sometimes there just ... isn't crisis. ... And I'm not going to say something that's been a thing for 2.5 years is "not a relationship". (I am STILL waiting for the NRE to wear off, but begin to think it's just not going to.)
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Again, there's the remainder of the thought:
Ravenscroft said:
It's nice that people have been able to navigate whirlwind romances.... However, a few successes DOES NOT mean that such leaps should be recommended
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NRE certainly appears to have a half-life, much as caffeine: it doesn't generally just cease, vanishing entirely. I wouldn't be surprised if that span was the one-year mark that Magdlyn mentions, so I'll run with that for the moment. That'd mean that, by the one-year mark, NRE is half as intense as at the beginning. Another year, & it's down to 25%; third year, 12.5%. It never actually goes away on its own, merely decline in obviousness, dropping below the "noise floor" of daily life. Maybe the partners find themselves growing apart as NRE wanes, or maybe the gap is filled by the growth of abiding love. Again, there's LOTS of variables.

If the initial NRE was really huge, it might take quite a stretch to decline.

Circumstances CAN occur that "short circuit" the NRE, like an acrimonious breakup, or finding someone new to start all over again at 100% NRE.

Part of the problem is the word "relationship." You technically have "a relationship" with the waitress you usually get when you go to your favorite restaurant. Whether it's the sort of relationship that leads to cohabitation or sex or whatever is another matter entirely.

Crises have a way of affecting a relationship that's otherwise perfect: illness, job loss, death of a loved one, even positive stuff like moving to a better house or overcoming a health threat. My parents did okay until the last kid was out of the house, & they found they really didn't like each other much, soon divorcing. (Upside: after a couple years of being individuals for the first time in twenty-some years, they became really good friends!!)

And I'll stand by the "survive a crisis" model. A carpenter once told me that it's not difficult for anyone to knock together a shed that'll do just fine under ideal circumstances, but the real test comes when it's got to support weight & survive strong winds. Good on you for never experiencing a storm.
 
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icesong said:
That's an interesting definition of relationships. I'm not convinced that it's accurate, because sometimes there just ... isn't crisis. This is something that perpetually surprises me in my relationship with Artist, actually - we've had a few disagreements or misunderstandings here and there, but crisis? Nah. And I'm not going to say something that's been a thing for 2.5 years is "not a relationship". (I am, to some degree, STILL waiting for the NRE to wear off, I admit, but begin to think it's just not going to.)
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Ravenscroft and I aren't talking about a crisis between the 2 members of the couple, necessarily, but life problems. I could list things Pixi and I have gone through together, even in the first few years together-- my divorce from my husband, my daughter's mental illness and drug addiction, issues with my other daughter too, the deaths of a few friends of Pixi's, the Boston Bombing during the Marathon (we were right in the neighborhood where the bombers ended up), the death of a pet, my need to get my stubborn demented father out of his condo and into assisted care (then cleaning out his place), Pixi's transition (she's transgender, needed a name change, therapy etc.,), my back issues and need for medical care. Then finally after 3 years of living separately, we moved in together, which was great, but a stress. Our new house then had a flood in the basement 6 months after we moved in, necessitating a lot of cleanup and moving of furniture, workers in the house, etc.

While together, we have both had other relationships start, be great, develop issues, and end... and have supported each other through those.

So, we have weathered all that, and more (most recently, my brush with friggin cancer), for over 8 years, and have supported each other and just grown in love. I call it Established Relationship Intimacy (ERI)... The thrill is still there, the sex is still great, we love to talk to each other, we love to cuddle, we still love going on fun dates, but we totally trust and respect each other, understand each other's emotional issues, physical issues, and depend on each other as dear friends.
 
I like Established Relationship Intimacy, Mags. May I steal it?

R and I had our first crisis two months into our relationship. We met on May 5, 2014. On July 4, her father, with whom she had a *very* complicated relationship, died suddenly. She had to go south to help her mother for three weeks, and when she came back, something was different. We knew we could trust each other with the big things. Since then, we've been through my paternal grandfather's death, my taking on a highly stressful job, a major surgery for R, a big move, my maternal grandmother's move to a memory care facility, mental health crises for both of us (she has PTSD and a mild TBI, I have bipolar disorder and ADHD, and we both struggle with anxiety), postponing our wedding due to the aforementioned mental health issues, R starting school again, and the 2016 election (for us, the results were definitely a crisis). We went through six months of counseling and came out stronger.

But I digress.

My point (if I have one) is that previous posters are on to something when they say that you know what your relationship is made of when you go through something together. It can even be good stress, like adopting our dog or having K1 and C move in.
 
So maybe mine worked out so well because we had a hurricane blow through the week I moved in?

Sometimes a crisis just brings people closer when they go through something big together. I'm sure there is psychological term for that but I'm feeling too lazy to look it up.
 
FallenAngelina said:
Crisis bonding?
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Okay, so I'll admit I'm a pessimist. :eek: Y'know, glass half-empty & all that.

To me, life is a series of crises, most minuscule, some freakin' HUGE, punctuated by moments of heart-stopping wonder.

That "wonder" part is BEAUTIFUL... but hardly moment-to-moment.

Literally anyone can be a GREAT "partner" when things are going ideally. And I'd have to argue that there's no need whatever for DEPTH when everything's lovely -- the situation is what is lovely, & pretty much any random person could be pasted into it.

It's the rare person who is able to take my hand & walk face-first into an obvious shitstorm & then stay by my side as I claw my way out -- a real FRIEND -- with whom I have a relationship.
 
It's true!

Ravenscroft said:
Okay, so I'll admit I'm a pessimist. :eek: Y'know, glass half-empty & all that.

To me, life is a series of crises, most minuscule, some freakin' HUGE, punctuated by moments of heart-stopping wonder.

That "wonder" part is BEAUTIFUL... but hardly moment-to-moment.

Literally anyone can be a GREAT "partner" when things are going ideally. And I'd have to argue that there's no need whatever for DEPTH when everything's lovely -- the situation is what is lovely, & pretty much any random person could be pasted into it.

It's the rare person who is able to take my hand & walk face-first into an obvious shitstorm & then stay by my side as I claw my way out -- a real FRIEND -- with whom I have a relationship.
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This is a fact I've known my adult life....
It's how life test a relationship! Just is... Makes everything taste better, more colourful...
And just so it's said.... It's not that same as basic bulll drama either.. So, folks, do try and differentiate the difference in mind first..
 
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