Open Relationship went wrong

[oxalis]

Hi all,

I'm pretty new to that forum, but browsed through it a couple times the last months. The reasons for that i'd like to give as short as possible and you can probably sum it up in the question:
My partner and I tried an Open Relation Ship, intentionally for him to get more experiences. After it failed (big time) I'm left with the question if I can go back to a mono life and if my partner can make his peace with what happened and if he is true to himself.

People included (I'm currently living in India, therefore we all get nice indian names )
Me, 26, female and in a mono relationship for more than 8 years
Saroo, 29, male and in a mono relationship for more than 8 years
Firas, 31, male, not really relationship experienced

I started writing and I ended in 6 pages
ok, i tried again: 3 pages - this is REALLY a short version:

Let's give it a try
Saroo and me had a phase last year when we wanted to try an open relationship in order for him to have some more experience (I was his first, I had some more experiences) and to not regret one day just having sex with me.
We were always convinced, that everyone has to find his own way and we tried not to hold the other one back. Therefore we studied in different cities and also spend a lot of time solo. But we were always mono.

The story went wrong in every way you can imagine. He never tried anything. I met Firas through university, told Saroo from the beginning that Firas is a cool guy. He wasn't against me seeing him again, Firas and me shared two more intense moments but no sex (according to our rules)
Due to some unfortunate circumstances and - as far as i would say - Saroo not being honest with himself - Saroo felt betrayed.

After the second incident we stopped the open relationship,we had several intense talks, which I thought covered everything.

In India:
Several months went by. Saroo and me decided to give everything a try and moved abroad (we live in India now). One of the reasons for the open relationship was, that I told him, that I would not move in with him as long as he is not sure about our relationship. And back then i definitely did not want to be in an open relationship when we are living together or start a family.
I never ever really talked to Firas again, Saroo and me sometimes had some talks about it, but nothing big.

Than March came and a friend was visiting us. As Saroo had to work quite a lot, i spent more time with that friend. And we also spoke about that phase of Saroo and me trying that Open Relationship. Nothing Spectacular, just that it didn't work for us, but that in general i think it might work.

The next day that friend went back home, and in the evening over a beer i mentioned to Saroo that last morning and that we talked about the open relation ship. And Saroo just exploded. He was super furious that I shared that information, and that he is not fine with it. And he even accused me of just telling that to make that guy interested in me.
I was super surprised, didn't expect that reaction. I actually was super happy, that we were getting along so well the last months and didn't even think about, that he might have not found closure with that.
He explained to me again, that for him it felt like an affair. Because of the mails and the meeting, while i knew that he didn't like it. He still was convinced, that the kissing happened and I used the open relationship to explain it. Then he brought up stuff from years ago and that he can not trust me, when someone is interested in me. He blames my father and abandonment issues. He also told me, that he still doesn't believe, that we didn't have sex.
I couldn't do anything to reassure or calm him. I told him, that i - of course - was aware of risking the relationship. But not particular in that situation but in general with the idea of opening the relationship. And I told him again, that is is hard for me to believe that he just looses the urge of having sex with someone else and that back then i felt the pressure to take the first step.

We couldn't really agree on anything and just let it be.
Unfortunately a few days later we had to go back home for a short visit and knew that we wouldn't be seeing each other for most of the time. And that I would be back at the institute with Firas

Back Home
Back home, Saroo discovered that his best friend was going through a bad break up. His GF cheated on him with three guys and just openly told him like it was nothing big - after she told him for years she is not really interest in other men.
And somehow those two found each other in misery and spent every minute they had together. On the other hand i was left alone with those news, that Saroo doesn't really trust me, and even almost one year after all that happened, he is still not fine talking about it. I was also kind of angry at him, I mean I left everything at home and moved to India, because I believed and trusted him, that he wants to work through it - and apparently he just buried all of it and didn't confront himself or me with his thoughts and doubts.

I spoke to friends about the situation, Saroo rarely kept contact with me. I was thinking about options, I mean I was fine with everything - I love him and I believe in our future. I still doubt that he is honest with himself and the "one woman problem". In addition we adopted a dog abroad and rented a big house with a fix contract for one year. And he did all of that without being sure about us, and for me it seems, without wanting it to be OK. So what is my role in all that, do I just have to wait till he figures it out?

I was - in my opinion - always honest with him. I also told him, that I still care about that guy. We went back "abroad home" together and agreed that we have to give him time till the end of the year. That he is willing to work through it, and that he loves me.

How it is now
Every time the topic comes up, he is upset. He even told me last time, 'that is some pitch black time for me, do not bring it up' - but that is, honestly not a solution in my opinion.

A few weeks back a colleague from the Institute told me, that Firas will be going to Alaska for vacation - as I knew that he likes adventures and is a little risky - I immediately worried. For almost 2 weeks those worries came back to me again and again, and I felt the urge to write him: wish him all the best and also remind him to be safe. From our talks I know that he is not really attached to anyone - and that the 'always in a good mood' is also some kind of an act.
I was risky and told Saroo about my urge to write Firas and he was surprisingly cool and just answered "It's summer in Alaska, nothing to worry about". I explicitly told him, that I care about Firas and that I'm worried and that I want to write him - he didn't say anything about that, just that there is nothing to worry. Saroo never brought it up again, neither did I.

A few days later I couldn't help myself and wrote Firas a short mail, that I heard about his vacation and that he should take care and that I just wanted him to know that. I felt so much better. But i didn't tell Saroo. He answered, like 4 weeks after I wrote him. A friendly and casual answer that they didn't do anything risky and he asked where I am at the moment.

I was released to get and answer and that he is fine, but I was also... scared?
scared that Saroo saw the answer and might get upset
scared and anxious about having contact again with Firas
scared of the answer where I am at the moment. I'm here, but nothing is decided and honestly I feel like it is not me, who will decide.

I do not want to hurt any one, not Saroo, neither Firas or me.
So i didn't do anything so far. Should I tell Saroo? Should I answer? I do not want to lead Firas on, do not want to keep him 'warm' - and I honestly do not know what I want. I actually just want to be happy. And back then, shortly before I told Saroo about the kissing and connecting with Firas, I was really happy. I was full of that love for Saroo and the affection i had for (and received by) Firas. I often thought that might just have been chemistry. But I still care about him, after not having contact for such a long time I get a super heartbeat just reading some email. But I love my partner, there is no question about that.

Ok, it is still super long.
I'm sorry. Maybe you have some ideas, that I did not visit so far.

 

[Jpk83]

I read the whole thing. Life is intricate. I myself am going through a similar situation that I started a thread on. Im not Poly neither are the people that are involved in my situation but its seems or feel complex, something similar to yours.

And I feel human emotions and life just sometimes get like this, we want things to be simple and be happy, and everyone to be happy. But I think sometimes it a test, a test on us to endure and to reflect on ourselves with the experience.

I hope you and Saroo and Firas find happiness and peace.

 

[oxalis]

Thanks for your toughts, Jpk83.

I actually read your thread - I guess I read most of the threads around here during the last couple of months.

I think we can definitely align in terms of that 'what am I gonna do, to make it right with everyone' feeling, that is overwhelming, scary and makes - me - super inpatient.

Reading your experiences, I realize really strongly, that we got into that situation because of Saroo. He has been bringing up his lack of sexual partners for years. And how I see it, we evolved so much and I never had better sex - but that is just me.

This makes me kind of angry. Yes, when I was super young and started dating I was flirty and easy - hence some more experience in that department. But all this changed with him.

We lived together for one year before we started the LDR. The first year of that was pretty intense because of my jealousy and abandonment issues (I actually have those). We worked through that.

But I rarely was interested in other men in those 8 years. There was maybe one friends which could have been something more (that is what he digged up, when he was angry) - and that time I told Saroo right away that I'm scared because I'm interested in another person - and back then he was also very hurt and thought, that I wanted to end the relationship.
And then there was one guy at the gym, that was really... yummi (?) - but I didn't really knew him. S, that also doesn't count.

In summary in 8 years I found two guys beside my actual partner interesting. I never acted on any of that and I always was honest about it.

Then he brought the game changer.
Initially I was so hurt and couldn't understand it. But for him I gave it a chance and kept an open mind and tried to find a way to make it work.
Apparently he neither thought his appeal through nor researched it more intensely. And still he wanted me to be patient, till he figures out, what he wants and needs.

And now he can not even talk about it, and probably doesn't process it either.
We are 'stuck' here in India. - with a house and dog(s). With all that material and logistical pressure.
And he just shuts me out.

I mean, we didn't fuck - I spent the night (forcedly as the last train back home was canceled and the next one would have come in the morning)
- but nothing besides kissing happened. And he apparently doesn't believe me. Or he jumps from believing to not believing. Once he actually stated, that we didn't have sex because Faris didn't want to - not because I denied it. He is just so hurt, and I do not now how to take it.

I actually feel pretty pissed at the moment.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle. Sounds like Saroo wanted Open for him but not for you.

He explained to me again, that for him it felt like an affair. Because of the mails and the meeting, while i knew that he didn't like it. He still was convinced, that the kissing happened and I used the open relationship to explain it. Then he brought up stuff from years ago and that he can not trust me, when someone is interested in me. He blames my father and abandonment issues. He also told me, that he still doesn't believe, that we didn't have sex.

If he thinks you suck so much, do you ever wonder why he keeps you around? Esp since he doesn't trust you?

Saroo lies. To you, himself. Saying he is ok with things but really not, then he's going to work on things but really not... just up and down and all around. And he hold grudges for a LONG time. He gunnysacks and then he explodes. And he doesn't trust you.


This is NOT a healthy dynamic. Maybe long ago it was. But TODAY? It's not healthy and it is a dead relationship. Dead weight dragging you down.

That might be hard to hear.

And I'm not trying to be mean to you saying it when you sound so sad.

But it IS dead, hon.

I wonder if deep down you know it, you know what you have to do, but are experiencing deep sorrow at having to do it? It is ok to feel sad. Have a good cry. Then wash your face and get up and do the work that needs to be done.

When people/animals/things die we lay them to rest. We let them go.

I was released to get and answer and that he is fine, but I was also... scared?
scared that Saroo saw the answer and might get upset
scared and anxious about having contact again with Firas
scared of the answer where I am at the moment. I'm here, but nothing is decided and honestly I feel like it is not me, who will decide.

You got some email. One of the most ordinary things in the world. Now you are THIS scared?

That could tell you something. You do not feel safe here with Saroo.

I get that you love him, but that's not enough if he doesn't love himself and he behaves like this and kinda scares you.

You are not put on this earth to always prop him up, be his emotional punching bag, and fill his bucket like you are forever filling the Black Hole. That is really draining and I can see how you feel upset, angry, and frustrated and just blaaaaaah over the whole thing. Understandable. This is not joyful living for you.

So why keep doing it?

Accept his Black Hole can NEVER be filled by you. Only he can do his own healing to repair that Black Hole. You already know he doesn't want to and is not likely to. Nothing changes, you remain sad and miserable. So if he's not going to change anything? It is on you to change something if you want to feel something new.

I actually just want to be happy.

If you want to be happy? This is your goal?

I think you could end it with Saroo and move out. Make the change. You are 26. Life is long. You don't need to be living it like THIS all unhappy and sad. If he wants you to keep him company while he wallows in misery? Not because he loves you or trusts you, but because he wants company in misery? Leave him the dog for company. Move out.

If you fear Saroo will try to stop you leaving or hurt you? Don't break up first. LEAVE first. Call your mother, ask for help coming home, and then fly home to her. Tell him you are going home to visit your mother and once safely there? Don't come back. Block him on your phone and email. Break up with him over post mail -- so you are already well away SAFE.

I cannot tell what kind of situation you have on your hands over there.

Regular break up.
Sick BF break up
Creepy BF break up.

But it sounds like break up so YOU at least, can be free of the misery.

You can love someone a whole lot. Even 49% of your love. But the remaining 51% you save for loving you. It is not selfish. It is NECESSARY. So you can say "No. I love you a whole lot. But not even for you will I do things that hurt me."

If he wants you to curl up in a hole with him living misery life? Say NO. You love him a whole lot, but not even for him will you do stuff that hurts you.

Because you want to be doing joyful living, not misery living. You have goals, things to do, place to go. One of the goals is to be happy. Doing "misery living" behavior with him will not help you achieve your happiness goal.

Saroo doesn't really trust me, and even almost one year after all that happened, he is still not fine talking about it. I was also kind of angry at him, I mean I left everything at home and moved to India, because I believed and trusted him, that he wants to work through it - and apparently he just buried all of it and didn't confront himself or me with his thoughts and doubts

I think you have given him long enough time and enough of a chance here. You moved countries and everything on the condition that he would work on his stuff. Almost a year later? He has not worked on his stuff. And nothing is ever good enough for him and he doesn't trust you. So...let go of the rope.

He did not meet conditions. End it and move back home.

How do you want to be living your life? Always on pause, on hold, forever waiting on Saroo to get it together?

Life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one.
Galagirl

 

[oxalis]

In general i have to say that Saroo is a wonderful person. He is full of love and happiness, he enjoys the small stuff and goes for the big stuff. He made me a better person, is always at my side. He works on his issues and is in thoughtful.

We evolved so much together. As i shortly mentioned I didn't have the best childhood - so we needed to work on trust issues from my side - during our relationship he helped me through two major health crisis which weren't easy on him. He, somehow turned into that guy, I always wanted to spend my life with. He wants to get married, have a bunch of kids and dogs running around in a small house with big garden and just a simple life with no drama and some great vacations.

I'm sorry your struggle.
Saroo lies. To you, himself. And he hold grudges for a LONG time. He gunnysacks and then he explodes. And he doesn't trust you.
So this relationship is basically dead.

95% of the time we spent is awesome - we understand each other without words, we like the same stuff and enjoy our time together. I'm a morning person he is definitely not - what causes some tension sometime - he is also a little more active and adventurous, but besides that, we are pretty happy and a good team.

That's the reason why I can not understand, how he can hold that grunge for such a long time. I mean, I honestly thought that we are through with that. Sure, i understood that he might not be happy about it - but just accept it and let it go (because we can not change it).

I wonder if deep down you know it, you know what you have to do, but are experiencing deep sorrow at having to do it? It is ok to feel sad. Have a good cry.

Back when it was all fresh, I actually told him, that I have somehow the feeling that I need to end the relationship, because he is not happy with me.

But - I'm a stubborn person, I actually don't think it is fair, that I have to make that decision, when he is not happy with me. That he is not happy with me, because of something that I did that was initiated by him.

I mean, leaving someone, who is in general making you happy and could be a superb life companion? Who shares the same dreams and values? and - in a total materialistic way - is a really good provider?
Seems idiotic. And i generally do not go for idiotic.

You got some email. One of the most ordinary things in the world. Now you are THIS scared?

The mail freaks me, because that is kind of what Saroo is taking as evidence, that it was an affair.

After I first got to know Firas (during a field trip of 14days) I told Saroo about him, and that he could be one, I might be interested in. He was surprised, but didn't ask me to end any contact or something like that. After that trip, days went by, and I had to mail Firas regarding some stuff from that course - so we started exchanging mails every now and then - private, but casual stuff.
Those mailing kind of lead to the evening where we kissed for the first time.
I actually asked Saroo first about that evening, if he would be OK with me seeing him.

Than after that first kissing we had the walk where he was so surprised and confuses that I actually kissed him. We talked a lot. And during that talk I asked several times, If we want to stop the "experiment" - no, he doesn't want to. He just wants things to slow down.

As Firas was on vacation after that festival, things definitely slowed down and we didn't see each other for around 4weeks - but still exchanged some mail now and then. Still no sexing, just casual stuff what he is up to, and what is going on in my life.
And Firas knew, that I have a boyfriend which whom I'm (at this time was planning to) going to India.

When we met again (again after Saroo gave his OK) and those bad circumstances crushed down (I basically missed a train and had to spent a night at Firas place) and therefore Saroo afterwards totally crashed - I told him that it is totally casual, nothing happened that we didn't agree on and that he knows I'm in a committed relationship because we were texting now and then.

He just jumped at the information, that we have been emailing "all the time".

So, exchanging emails with Firas seems to be a red flag for Saroo.
That's why I was so anxious to tell him about my urge to wish Firas a safe travel: But Saroo was actually pretty cool about it. I mean, I really explained, that I have had that feeling for the past days, and that I do not why. He never asked if I wrote him, nor did he ask me not to write him.

If I tell Saroo now, he might be upset because I didn't tell him that I wrote in the first place, and might lose some newly build trust.
If I do not tell him (knowing that last time he took that as evidence that we are having an affair), it might come out one day and destroy all the trust he might have build up till then.
Either way I think it will hurt him - what I understand somehow - but not as much, that it made me ignore my own urge to write Firas.

And to clear that, I'm not scared of him. I'm more scared for him. That he might take it the wrong way again. I mean, I have no idea if he made any progress forgiving me and accepting what happened. For all i know he might be totally cool. or not.

Only he can do his own healing to repair that Black Hole.

That's a good point. And I'm upset that he haven't worked on that - or even just let me know, that he couldn't work on it yet.
He has so much going on, that he doesn't have much time to process all of it. But, yeah, I understand that. But I do not like it.

Oh, he tells you whatever to get you to stay so he can keep on using you for an emotional punching bag. "Give him a year, he will work on it, lalala."

I actually do not feel like an emotional punching bag.
I think it's more that if I would leave, he would be alone in a big house in a foreign and chaotic country without any friends. He kind of puts that burden on me unintentionally.

This "new" him? He sounds kinda messed up. It is not your job to fix him.

yeah, kind of true. He blames me for that, what is even worse than just seeing that change.

I wonder if you are scared because you see it. There he is. Digging the hole for both of you to go lay down in, together in misery, even though he doesn't trust you and he will not choose to heal.

kind of - I'm worried that even if he might be able to handle it all - it might surface again when we are back home, or when we are about to start a family or whatever.

He can finally choose to heal and choose to MOVE ON.

He definitely has to do that, I actually hoped that with that buddy back home he might start that process - but I do not know.
And letting him move on, would mean going back home, being separated by thousands of Km and hours on a plane and missing the chance to might actually see the healing.

I'm a difficult person to date: I'm rarely interested in men (most of them bore me), I have some (already pretty neatly packed) luggage - that from time to time needs some attention, I'm a little social awkward ( it's hard for me to make friends and feel accepted) and I have some pretty down to earth life goals which include children, house and garden, i'm a tall woman, I live vegan and I'm an animal welfare activist. All in all, I think potential partners are rare.
And somehow, in the past years, we grow so much together and also towards each other, that we are kind of a really good fit.

And no, he is not a threat, not even a tiny bit. Sorry if I gave the wrong picture. He is just emotional in discussions without being determined. You know, what I mean? During a talk you have the feeling that he'll end the relationship and never want to speak to you again - because he is so honest about how he feels and he is apparently really hurt. But he never makes a decision. He kind of leaves that up in the open or up to me.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi oxalis,

It seems to me that if you are going to stay with Saroo, he's going to need you to not mention the open arrangement anymore. And if you mention it to anyone else, Saroo will need you to keep that to yourself. It is just too painful for him, and he doesn't want to work on it. You say that life with him is 95% good; that being the case, my advice to you is to focus on that 95%, and let the other 5% go. Also, I am inclined to suggest that you not have outside relationships anymore; that is, let Firas go as well. You could write Firas one last email, explaining to him that you need to cease contact with him in order to work on your relationship with Saroo. Assure Firas that it isn't his fault, it's just the way circumstances have evolved.

I'm really sorry that your attempt at an open relationship went so very wrong. I see that it is a source of unhappiness for you. I hope that you'll be able to find more happiness in the future.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I think the "old him" you feel in love with? Maybe you keep hoping that him will come back.

I don't know what has happened, but this "new him" doesn't sound healthy.

At the end of the day? If he doesn't trust you and holds grudges SO long and blows things up out of proportion, explodes, and other stuff... the only one who can heal himself is him. He's not doing it.

You had a condition that you would not move in with him until he got it together. He said he would and he did not. Condition not met. That to me is a dealbreaker and I would move back out and not come back til he DOES get it together.

"I'm suspicious of you and do not trust you. Will you marry me?" Doesn't sound like a healthy life partner at this time. Def do not marry or have children until he is actually well!

I think it's more that if I would leave, he would be alone in a big house in a foreign and chaotic country without any friends. He kind of puts that burden on me unintentionally.

When someone invites you to a party, you are not obligated to accept and then attend. You can RSVP "No, thank you."

When someone asks you to help them move? You are not obligated to do it. You can say "No, thank you."

He might try to put the burden on you and invite you to carry it. But you do not have to accept. At this time, you choose to accept the burden and be like his "life raft." You sound like you are getting mad, tired, drained. Like "How long do I have to keep doing this life raft thing propping you up before you REALLY get on with healing?"

You can give the burden of taking personal responsibility for himself back to him. Let him stand on his own feet. Let him get on with seeking healthcare and make his doc appointments so he really is trying to get well again.

This "new" him? He sounds kinda messed up. It is not your job to fix him.

yeah, kind of true. He blames me for that, what is even worse than just seeing that change.

That is what I mean about being his emotional punching bag. Any little thing? Blame YOU. Pow! Whether it was you or not.

And letting him move on, would mean going back home, being separated by thousands of Km and hours on a plane and missing the chance to might actually see the healing.

Why would this be terrible?

If I loved him and that is what it took to REALLY heal so I could have the old Saroo I loved back? I would let him go. Go home, be separate. So he can go work on himself -- go to hospital, to therapy, get medicine, whatever it is he needs to get better. Whether depression, a brain tumor, or whatever thing has caused this personality change... get it checked out and DO the health plan devised for him.

I don't have to be there to watch the healing if I could get the old him I loved back when it is done. I would take that chance rather than keep watching this odd new him slowly spiral down getting worse and worse.

Like if the problem was drugs, he could go to a treatment center and really work hard to get sober. I don't have to go to the program with him. He could go check in and be away for those months. And I would welcome the sober, healed him back with open arms.

I would do what is necessary to get back to healthy footing.

If you want him for a life partner, do you not want him to be a healthy one?

Galagirl

 

[oxalis]

It seems to me that if you are going to stay with Saroo, he's going to need you to not mention the open arrangement anymore. And if you mention it to anyone else, Saroo will need you to keep that to yourself. It is just too painful for him, and he doesn't want to work on it. You say that life with him is 95% good; that being the case, my advice to you is to focus on that 95%, and let the other 5% go. Also, I am inclined to suggest that you not have outside relationships anymore; that is, let Firas go as well. You could write Firas one last email, explaining to him that you need to cease contact with him in order to work on your relationship with Saroo. Assure Firas that it isn't his fault, it's just the way circumstances have evolved.

yes, that would help him and he needs that - but I'm not sure if it helps him (and us) in the long run.
We didn't speak of it for months (before we went back home and all blew up) and now we are not speaking about it neither.

The problem might be, that I do not believe, that he is over that whole 'only one woman' problem. It came up so often during our relationship, I would say regularly over the last 4/5 years. And it's a reasonable thought. And as we are not for cheating or DADT - an open relationship is the only way to go - but if he even can't handle it in this form - how could he expect me to jump back into all that. I couldn't do it - only because I would now be really afraid, that he couldn't handle it.

Sometimes I feel stupid, that I just believed, that we'll be fine. Over the years, we spoke often abut, that we could possibly forgive cheating when it was a one time thing and no deep feelings are involved. And he apparently can't even handle kissing on two occasions, that basically happened after he gave his OK.

 

[GalaGirl]

Sometimes I feel stupid, that I just believed, that we'll be fine.

Not stupid. Perhaps just young.

Love alone is NOT enough. There must be other things.

Like respect.

Good conflict resolutions skills. Not sweep things under the rug and pretend it isn't there.

Lots of things. Love might get it started. But it is the other things that keep it going in a healthy way.

Galagirl

 

[oxalis]

I think the "old him" you feel in love with? Maybe you keep hoping that him will come back.

I don't know what has happened, but this "new him" doesn't sound healthy.

I totally agree on that - but it's just such a big surprise, that all this change was somehow triggered by those events. I really can not understand that, not after those big and frequent talks. I mean the topic of an open relationship has been in the making for about 3 years.

You had a condition that you would not move in with him until he got it together. He said he would and he did not. Condition not met. That to me is a dealbreaker and I would move back out and not come back til he DOES get it together.

yes, that point get's me upset the most - and because moving out is just much more complicated now, of cource also because of my feelings of being responsible for house/dog/living here. he kind of put me in a corner.

"I'm suspicious of you and do not trust you. Will you marry me?" Doesn't sound like a healthy life partner at this time. Def do not marry or have children until he is actually well!

oh well, that's not even the whole story. Marriage and kids are of the table for me. If I would have known about his doubts, even the dog wouldn't have moved in (although I was the driving force their).

But it gets more complicated:
1) I always wanted to get married young and have children young (failed) - he knows that pretty well. When he first told me about his fear of missing out on sex with someone else, he also told me, that he probably can't marry me, before he got that sorted out.
2) For kids the problem might be, that I may have some difficulties in conceiving - meaning it might take way more than the usual 1 year of trying. therefore he knows, that I feel a lot of pressure regarding that topic. In addition he also is aware of my personality and knows, that even with a new partner I wouldn't even think about kids for a long time.
3) at the moment i'm finishing my masters here in India on a tourist visa. I'll be applying for a new visa at the end of the year. It should be no problem, but in case they won't grant it - or they just grant it for 6 months - I could only stay in the country if we get married.

So, biological and logistical speaking we need to figure out our problems NOW.

You can give the burden of taking personal responsibility for himself back to him. Let him stand on his own feet. Let him get on with seeking healthcare and make his doc appointments so he really is trying to get well again.
[...]
I don't have to be there to watch the healing if I could get the old him I loved back when it is done. I would take that chance rather than keep watching this odd new him slowly spiral down getting worse and worse.

I have a feeling, that him doing it on his own, he would need so much more time, than if we would find a way to work through it together.

And I also feel a bit responsible and guilty, at the end of the day, I kissed someone else. And I do not even know, how I would handle him getting close with someone else. I mean, I know it theoretical, but never have been in the situation.

In a few weeks he will be back home work related for 14 days. I'll stay here in India. I'm thinking about confronting him in the next weeks for the last time, telling him about my fears of him not being truthful to himself and just postponing some decisions because of the India Situation. And that he might use the time apart to figure stuff out.

If you just look at it from a theoretical point:
- he doesn't trust me
- he didn't forgive me after one year
- he (probably) still needs to solve the 'one woman problem'

and in addition some more complex stuff
- I actually do not enjoy the time here so much - it's ok, it's not troubling, but I would prefer home. It's like: I'm happy despite of India and not because of India.
- My master thesis here is a pain in the ass - it would be much easier back home.
- Our dog is scared of people (probably got beaten and everything) - and there are so many people here in India, that he goes crazy every walk outside. So we are thinking about moving him home to find a loving family somewhere on the countryside.

But yeah, there are those 95 %

 

[oxalis]

Not stupid. Perhaps just young.

Love alone is NOT enough. There must be other things.

Like respect.

Good conflict resolutions skills. Not sweep things under the rug and pretend it isn't there.

Lots of things. Love might get it started. But it is the other things that keep it going in a healthy way.

Galagirl

ask me or him, or anyone in our friend group like, 1,5 years ago - before that whole Firas thing.
I think we would have all agreed, that this 'love is not enough' is something we would have given as advice. As I said, we lived in a LDR for most of the time in order for us to pursue our individual goals, no problems with spending a weekend with your boys/girls. Chasing the idealistic dream of saving all the poor pets in the world ( me) or climbing every mountain in the world (him). So, yes, respect was always our fundament.

Sometimes we were even joking, that we are too understanding to ever make decisions.

 

[GalaGirl]

yes, that point get's me upset the most - and because moving out is just much more complicated now, of cource also because of my feelings of being responsible for house/dog/living here. he kind of put me in a corner.

I get it will take money and arranging. But "complexity" is not a reason to keeping doing something that is not working out. People break leases all the time. Military deployment, divorce, change in jobs, etc.

It's like you are saying

"I took all this trouble to come here. And it sucks here. But I have to stay because I took all this trouble to come here."​

Rather than

"I took all this trouble to come here. And it sucks here. I should go home. Because it sucks here."​

If you just look at it from a theoretical point:
- he doesn't trust me
- he didn't forgive me after one year
- he (probably) still needs to solve the 'one woman problem'

and in addition some more complex stuff
- I actually do not enjoy the time here so much - it's ok, it's not troubling, but I would prefer home. It's like: I'm happy despite of India and not because of India.
- My master thesis here is a pain in the ass - it would be much easier back home.
- Our dog is scared of people (probably got beaten and everything) - and there are so many people here in India, that he goes crazy every walk outside. So we are thinking about moving him home to find a loving family somewhere on the countryside.

You sound like India is not the place for you and you miss home. So why are you here and not at home?

I have a feeling, that him doing it on his own, he would need so much more time, than if we would find a way to work through it together.

But he would still get it done, and in a healthier way. On his own two feet.

I wonder if you do not want to leave (even thought you miss home so much) because you are afraid to go.

And then he still doesn't get it together.

So you have to come to terms that you wasted a lot of time and effort here for nothing.

And you do not want that to end up being true. Is that it?

And I also feel a bit responsible and guilty, at the end of the day, I kissed someone else.

Which was FINE under your agreements. You did not do a crime. You are NOT guilty. You are NOT responsible for him having a cow and being all weird now. All this drama over 2 kisses? That's blowing the whole thing out of proportion.

If back then he said Open was ok (but didn't really mean it?) That is the wrongdoing. He misled you. Misleading you is doing respectful behavior toward you how?

And what does he do now? Blame it all on you whether you really did cheating or not. Emotional punching bag. POW. (And you did not cheat on your agreements. You were misled.)

Blaming it all on you when he misled you is him doing respectful behavior toward you how?

So, yes, respect was always our fundament.

Maybe at one time. But this does not match current behavior. There is lack of respect happening.

Back when it was all fresh, I actually told him, that I have somehow the feeling that I need to end the relationship, because he is not happy with me.

You seemed to see the writing on the wall back then.

But - I'm a stubborn person, I actually don't think it is fair, that I have to make that decision, when he is not happy with me. That he is not happy with me, because of something that I did that was initiated by him.

What are you being stubborn FOR?

He lies about being ok with Open. Then emotionally beats you up calling you a cheater when you DID NOT CHEAT. He misled you.

So you are gonna be stubborn and stay here to PROVE to the guy (who doesn't trust you / believe anything you say anyway) that you did NOT cheat?

Is doing that helping you get back to home, which you miss a lot? And out of India which is kinda meh to you? Nope.

Is doing that wasting your breath? Yes. Circle conversation.

You take the time and trouble to move countries to be with him because he (false) promises to get it together. You arrive. And he doesn't get it together. Deal breaker. Go home. You miss it and life with your degree and things would be easier there.

I don't have any more advice. And I don't want to be adding to your stress/burden by keeping this going if it is not actually helpful to you.

In your shoes I would cut my loses and go home.

I guess if you don't want to go home at this time you just don't.

Galagirl

 

[oxalis]

GalaGirl, thanks for your advice. I really appreciate all the time you invest here - it keeps me on my toes and gets me thinking. Thanks a lot for that.

Yes, a break up and moving home is possible, I have a good support system.
Yes, I miss home a lot.
and a big YES, he needs to solve that on his own - as till now he never appreciated my effort and my honesty to help him.
and another big YES, that I really felt disrespected because of how he reacted and accused me of cheating when I was the brave on to go and take a (agreed on) leap at solving our issues.
Yes, their are circle conversations and yes, I'm indecisive because of all WE invested and evolved together, that this change is hard to accept.

For the next weeks I'll try to work on getting some things out of my way, which may make the decisions harder.
- Like we actually got two dogs, one is a foster - so I'll be more determined to find a home for him. For the one that should go home I'll have to get some stuff sorted with the vet.
- I'll also try to improve my support system, keep some more contact and get some more reassurance - although I do not want to tell them yet, that we are struggling.
-For the studying part, I'll just put in some more determination - I still haven't figured out, what bugs me so much. It's the work style - for sure, but i think there is more. Some things I just need to get done here in India, but the main part could probably also be done back home.
- And I'll try to highlight (for myself) what it is, that makes him so special to me and to my life. For example he get's me much more active - so I already started getting more active on my own at the week (I put in a yoga lesson and a run this week) - you know, that I do not have the feeling, that that stuff is depended on him.

And last, but not least I'll initiate a last conversation from my side - not letting it slip into a circle. I'll do that some weeks before he'll go home - so that he has time here to let in sink in.

For Firas I'll just let the mail sit for now. He probably partly answered out of politeness and his question regarding, where I am, is a really open and vague one. So he should be fine.

 

[GalaGirl]

Sounds like you have the start of plan then.

I hope things work out for you one way or another. I just don't think "waffling forever" is a good thing to be doing. If you are feeling stuck? The only way to "unstick" yourself is to get on to doing things. Not just sit on the fence forever doing nothing.

YKWIM?

GL!
Galagirl

 

[oxalis]

it's a plan, and it's a start.
I can use that uncertainty to get my ass down to solve some stuff - this is something positive at least.
We will profit either way. I need to figure out, why I am holding on that strong to the relationship. And we can enjoy a little less responsibility when we resolve the dog issues (to clear that up: we love them both. The big one is just super scared of people and really anxious - so India is just not right for him. The other one was supposed to only stay with us, till he is fine. Today we have the crucial appointment with the vet to decide if the small one needs another surgery.).

We had a nice weekend, nothing special. We have a house guest at the moment, she is staying with us till the end of the month. So we generally do not have so much alone time at the moment - it feels like it doesn't bother him so much (I mean we literally spent the last months just the two us together) - but on the other end he seems a little on the edge. Or it's me - I don't know.

We had one incident:
During a conversation with that house guest (let's call her Ana), where we were actually mentioning polyamory - and it was her, bringing that up and Saroo seemed very cool. A few minutes later he upset me a little bit again:
we were talking about sex tourism in Thailand and shared some stories we heard.
Then Saroo spoke about one vacation he had before we where together and that him and his friends had the situation where they were getting a message and the girl was asking 'do you want a happy end?' - we were all laughing and then Ana asked 'Did you get one?' And he replied 'No, of course' and I just say 'that would have been a deal breaker for me' and he answers - like already a little stiff - 'we weren't a couple back then' and I was like 'yeah, still. A guy who has paid for sex would be a deal breaker for me' - and he was like 'no, that doesn't make sense - it would only be a hand job' and I argued that this doesn't matter, because for me the point of paying for it, is crucial. This went on for 2 minutes, rather restrained as we had Ana in the back seat of the car. But still, I asked him to just accept my opinion and that this is how I feel. And he ended the conversation with 'I do not even know, why you would need to mention that'... so yeah... tension, baby. But we can not really get some of stat off, as we spend almost all our time with Ana present.

 

[oxalis]

Yesterdy evening we finally had a talk (as Ana was out for a theater night). Honest. Heart to heart. It wasn't a 'nice' one - but somehow it got us closer as we were before.

We are both on the same side regarding, that something just doesn't feel right about our relationship at the moment - and that this is not a new feeling, but a rather reoccurring one.
Again, we have totally different views about what happened (I might need another opinion on that from you guys - but it's gonna be another post if anybody is intersted) and in addition some issues in the relationship.

- He feels, that I'm controlling when I give advice (that should be an easy thing to fix).
- Our biorhythm is totally different (I'm a morning person and get tired as soon as it gets dark - he is an owl). I feel that I adjusted to the point that is possible - what he acknowledged after a short recap of the last months and admitted that he didn't do his part. I asked him about compromising - but he just can't do it at the moment.
- He perceives me as a dooming person: that is really hard for me to understand, as he always said, that he loves about me, that I’m super understanding and that he (or anyone) never need to feel judged or opposed as I’m really open minded. And I still see me like that. But he refers to statements like the one in the car about guys paying for sex.
- I'm a rather submissive sex partner - I really enjoy sex - but initiating is really hard for me. I initiate via dressing nice (or not dressing), setting the mood (nice dinner and atmosphere), fondling and tickling and kissing and telling him that I need sex. But when I get a rejection, I stop - I'm not like a convincing sex partner. I rather like to be convinced – he normally enjoys that – but when he is not feeling very horny he mostly rejects my approaches and we do not have intercourse (though he might be convinced if I would be more determined). [BTW: going to bed when I’m almost asleep is not really helping that] During sex he really enjoys me being submissive.

I asked what he would be wishing for at the moment, his answer (after a while):
He feels, like he needs some alone time to process all of that. He couldn’t tell me if it is alone time without me or general alone time. I assured him, that I understand that – but how he thinks that might work. Besides an hour walk with the dog (what is not really relaxing as the dog is really anxious) I do not see any possibilities for that. Due to his long way to work he leaves the house at 8am and returns around 7pm. We could try for separate bedroom (as soon as our roomie is gone) or I might go back home for a while (like over Christmas/new year for what we planned a 16 days’ vacation). But he refuses all those ideas.
My wish would be, that he gets less passive-aggressive and stops seeing me as the enemy. What I feel like at the moment. I understand his feelings and reservations, but I would rather have a real fight from time to time and some real loving time before and after that, than this bullshit passive aggressiveness (thinking that I’m controlling if I tell him not to forget to start the water for the noodles or ask him to go to bed, calling me dooming when I just stated a purely theoretical fact and my opinion…). He admitted that he is kind of on the edge with me lately.

So, the end of the conversation was:
Saroo: “If we see just the facts: I cannot trust you and we have some persistent issues in our relationship besides that. The logical thing would be to break up and go separate ways. “
Me: “You might want to adjust it to: you do not trust me (he admitted that this is more accurate), you might want to have sex with someone else at some point (for what we still not know, what it would change), I do not enjoy India so much, our dog doesn’t enjoy India so much.”

Theoretically we agreed that we would advise other people to end the relationship because if would be easier for everyone involved. But what if that is a big mistake?

Practically I would need to stay in India at least 3 more months – because that’s the time we need to wait before we can take our dog back home (some immigratory issues regarding pets). And – that might not be understandable for someone else - but there is no way, that this dog can stay here or with him (as he has not enough time to care for him).

The part about the sex was actually at the end of our talk, and we ended up having a nice night – but didn’t decide anything. Sometimes I would like to have a crystal ball for some foresight.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

I'm not sure why you backed him into a corner about the prospect of paying for a handjob? That didn't seem very constructive. Definitely not a conversation to have in front of a third party.

If that is a deal-breaker, I guess that's up to you. It just seems it could have been handled differently.

Not that I'm saying what HE is currently doing is constructive, but this just seemed to add an unnecessary level of nastiness.

 

[GalaGirl]

Theoretically we agreed that we would advise other people to end the relationship because if would be easier for everyone involved. But what if that is a big mistake?

It isn't like you can't get back together later down the road if you both want to. If what is best right now is to break up and work on your own selves? You could do that.

Galagirl

 

[oxalis]

I'm not sure why you backed him into a corner about the prospect of paying for a handjob? That didn't seem very constructive. Definitely not a conversation to have in front of a third party.

If that is a deal-breaker, I guess that's up to you. It just seems it could have been handled differently.

Not that I'm saying what HE is currently doing is constructive, but this just seemed to add an unnecessary level of nastiness.

I actually didn't realize that this would count as backing someone into a corner.
I didn't bring it up. He told the story. And our temporary roomie asked, and he aswered freely (and also in a way like 'gosh, never'). It was a pretty relaxed atmosphere till that. I mean we shared anecdotes and discussed a bit about sextourism. Till I said that part, that this would be a deal breaker (and it was a rather global statement) - and yes, looking back I shouldn't have said it. But it's my opinion and I didn't realize, that we are like talking serious stuff. It was more meant like a 'if someone has his ass tatooed, that would be such a deal breaker'.
And till that day he always pretended, that everything is fine with us. In his passiv aggresive style.

GalaGirl, sure, we could. We also spoke about that, but he doesn't believe in it.

 

[vinsanity0]

Well if someone told me something as mundane as getting a handjob from a prostitute or having a tat was a dealbreaker, I would seriously question if I wanted to date them. Even things said in jest count. It's hard to open up to someone that judgmental. Kind of makes it hard to be himself from that point forward, don't you think?